Classic & Vintage - Brooks Proofhide Alternative?

Alright, alright, I know this subject is a beaten horse, and many people have incredibly differing opinions on it.

But, recently, after clearing out my brother's room (he left for college, it's now my bike crap storage unit), I found a product called Chelsea Leather Food. It's a leather nourishing/waterproofing/polishing cream that claims to do all those thing without ridding the leather of its natural qualities and without stretching the leather or stitching.

I mean, it's even made in England like Brooks. Have you guys ever used this, or heard of it?

Oh, and the reason my brother had it is because he's a soccer player and used it on a very specific set of his cleats made of Kangaroo hide...yeah, weird.

Beats me, but not buying proofhide was a cheapout mistake on my part, this many miles later and still just barely little bumps in the saddle.

I've used Sno-Seal for years.

I've used Sno-Seal for years.

I just started using sno-seal. So far so good.

I ended up with a saddle that I was sure was completely gone. I soaked it in olive oil and it is holding up well.

I ended up with a saddle that I was sure was completely gone. I soaked it in olive oil and it is holding up well.

Must be an Italian saddle? Goes better with pasta!

Lexol is great. I used i to bring a Wright's saddle back from the dead, Lazarus-fashion.

I've been thinking about that VO saddle care stuff. I also have a VO saddle.

This is the finest leather conditioner known to man. A trick when using any conditioner is to heat the leather with a blow dryer then apply the conditioner, this way it really gets into the leather and works much faster. http://shop.treatleather.com/mpbw-4oz.aspx

This is the finest leather conditioner known to man. A trick when using any conditioner is to heat the leather with a blow dryer then apply the conditioner, this way it really gets into the leather and works much faster. http://shop.treatleather.com/mpbw-4oz.aspx

I think Red Wing also markets that same stuff--looks the same, anyway, and is also described on the container as a blend of pine pitch, mink oil, and beeswax. You can probably get it any any shoe shop that carries Red Wing boots. It is great on boots, though I've never used it on saddle. I don't think there's anything magic about the leather on a saddle, though Brooks likes to make you think there is. Any good leather treatment is probably fine. Has anyone ever had the experience of using a product on a Brooks saddle that DIDN'T work well?

Red Wing Boot Oil will really soften, and stretch leather - makes it pretty soft stuff!

I'm disappointed. This is a rational thread. No ravings about the secret ingredients in Proofhide (bee poop).

Yes, I have also used SnoSeal successfully. Wax is wax. I have also used a hairdryer to warm up the saddle and SnoSeal a bit. Although, right now in AZ, that is not necessary.

Berthoud also makes a saddle leather conditioner for their saddles which also claim to be vegetable tanned leather, like Brooks. Wallbike carries it and you get more product for your money than from Brooks.

I just emailed the chief chemist at Caswell Adhesives, Anthony Horner.

This product is used to make leather more pliable, and, thus, is not suitable for use on saddles. Anthony even went as far to say that he just uses Proofhide on his own Brooks -- small world.

It would be a costly mistake to use the wrong stuff. Yet I can't help thinking that the stuff Brooks sells in the little can for $xx has them laughing at all of us schmucks. I'm sure Brooks is merely repackaging the stuff which is probably really cheap to produce.

We don't want to soften the Brooks saddles too much, as the leather will then stretch, requiring readjustment until we run out of room to readjust. But I for one certainly would like to protect the leather from unexpected rain, dew or snow.

I just use proofide. There are plenty of other places to cheap out in life. If I'm going to spend that much on a saddle, I'll buy their conditioner, too.

...one certainly would like to protect the leather from unexpected rain, dew or snow.

I never treat my leather saddles, I just use a plastic grocery bag when the weather gets nasty. Here's a B-72 I put into service in ~1982, had to re-rivet it last winter:
http://images2d.snapfish.com/232323232%7Ffp53695%3Enu%3D3275%3E4%3B3%3E733%3EWSNRCG%3D33%3C987764332%3Anu0mrj

Proofide is fairly expensive, but a little bit goes a long way. I still have plenty left in the tin that came with my Team Pro 25+ years ago.

I just use proofide. There are plenty of other places to cheap out in life. If I'm going to spend that much on a saddle, I'll buy their conditioner, too.

you gets points for actually spelling it correctly, but it's capitalized: Proofide :thumb:
Yes Virginias, there is a right way and lots of wrong ways to "treat" an all-leather saddle, which is a different thing compared to the leather covering on equestrian saddles and plastic-shelled bicycle seats. Why? Because it's a weight-bearing, tensioned membrane (to use some "engineer jargon"). If you use anything on it that over-softens the leather it will lose tension at the least, or tear out at the rivets (worst), and you can't reverse the process.
I have used many, many products over the years and learned the hard way...you can use whatever you like, but I'll continue to use a small, occasional, application of Proofide, even though it's not the only thing on the planet that's suitable and certainly not the cheapest. I bought the little can for about $6 many years ago and still haven't used it up, though I have owned probably 8 Brooks saddles, plus some Ideales and others that all have been treated with it.

oh goody I get points!

everybody else (except John) is getting demerits ;)...Brooks is making a list and Christmas is coming...

I have a dozen plus saddles of various manufacture to maintain and that's a lot of overpriced beef tallow and bees' wax. I've been using Obenaufs in lieu of Proofide because my last can of the stuff actually had mold in it and Obenaufs is much less expensive. Like an previous poster said, wax is wax, and I only use enough to waterproof the saddle, not to soften it. I'll let my lardass do the softening.

The Wax remains when the oils evaporate .. thoroughly Proofide treated my Pro model, saddle 30 years ago, it absorbed half a tin , when warmed to 100F upside down in the Oven.

The Wax remains when the oils evaporate .. thoroughly Proofide treated my Pro model, saddle 30 years ago, it absorbed half a tin , when warmed to 100F upside down in the Oven.

Now, "use Proofide sparingly" seems to be such a mantra I've wondered whether Brooks is subliminally brainwashing us from the buttocks up. But if that is so, what danger is there in putting on a good amount of the stuff? I too have bought old Brooks saddles that have easily absorbed 3-4 solid coatings in succession in a single day (usually when left in the sun), and haven't seemed waxy or oily in the least afterward. In fact they've seemed much more pliable and ... (what would the opposite of brittle be?) What are the dangers of using too much, and when does one know they've gotten close?

Now, "use Proofide sparingly" seems to be such a mantra I've wondered whether Brooks is subliminally brainwashing us from the buttocks up. But if that is so, what danger is there in putting on a good amount of the stuff? I too have bought old Brooks saddles that have easily absorbed 3-4 solid coatings in succession in a single day (usually when left in the sun), and haven't seemed waxy or oily in the least afterward. In fact they've seemed much more pliable and ... (what would the opposite of brittle be?) What are the dangers of using too much, and when does one know they've gotten close?

The dangers?
see here:
http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?674916-LOL-Brooks-Swift-quot-partlyly-broken-in-quot&highlight=broken+in+brooks

The dangers?
see here:
http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?674916-LOL-Brooks-Swift-quot-partlyly-broken-in-quot&highlight=broken+in+brooks

I don't think Proofide caused that. I bought a B-17 that seemed extra hard (for a B-17), so for fun I heated it up in an oven, slopped Proofide on the underside until it wouldn't soak in anymore, slopped it on top several times, and repeated the process after a month or so. I used up at least half a can on that saddle in this "experiment". I now have about 500 miles on the saddle and it seems like it hasn't softened up a bit. In fact it looks like new compared to other saddle I bought at about the same time. I don't think Proofide does much to soften these things, which is probably why guys like Lon Haldeman soaked them in motor oil instead.

I've got a chemist friend in the cosmetic chemistry sector....the Proofide ingredients list is easy enough to come by

Tallow, Cod oil, Vegetable Oil, Parrafin wax, Beeswax, Citronella oil

see? no mosquitos on my saddle!


extra points!

I've got a chemist friend in the cosmetic chemistry sector....the Proofide ingredients list is easy enough to come by

Tallow, Cod oil, Vegetable Oil, Parrafin wax, Beeswax, Citronella oil


So is the $10 to buy a 10 year supply of the stuff...... :rolleyes:

I use neutral shoe polish...it works well, a tin of Kiwi is $4, and in 700 miles, my B17 is a bit wrinkly on the top, but has no indication of stretching or sagging. Then again, the wrinkles are right at my butt bones, and I'm a fatty...

These "Brooks treatment" threads crack me up. Proofide is readily available, is a proven entity and recommended by Brooks, and costs less than a buck per year per saddle. Sure, on a per-ounce basis it's expensive, but I use just a few grams per application so don't feel too badly used when I do it. How much cheaper does an alternative treatment have to be to justify the risk of damage to a $100 saddle?

Having said that, I like mickey85's idea.

You can all just man up and break 'em in without help. Not a drop of anything but butt sweat. ;)

I respect and attempt to follow Man Law.


You can all just man up and break 'em in without help. Not a drop of anything but butt sweat. ;)

This isn't for breaking it in, it's just sealing the leather. But yeah, I just bought some SnoSeal, so I'm good to go.

You can all just man up and break 'em in without help. Not a drop of anything but butt sweat. ;)



I'm not sure what you're on about but the rest of us are discussing bicycles.

I was recently in a drizzly climate and didn't have proofhide for my old saddle, so I put some NiKwax , not the spray on product, but the paste which comes in a tube or a can, which I use for my hiking boots, on it; not much, just enought to coat the surface to prevent the moisture from making the saddle wet.

I was all out of proofide, so for those that say it lasts them 10 years they probably haven't treated as many saddles as I have in the last 2. I don't use it too heavily or too frequently, but between my saddles, treating saddles for the coop, and lending some to friends mine was gone, and I had a 1970s vintage saddle in excellent condition, but that probably hadn't been treated with anything in over 30 years.

I also had a little tab of beeswax, an almost empty Mink oil tin, and a fully stocked kitchen, so I put the beeswax in the tin, and melted it on the stove, then added olive oil until the resulting mixture was soft enough to spread. The resulting paste is thicker than proofide by quite a bit, but when I rub it onto a cloth I can spread it thinly onto the saddle, or melt it onto a warmed saddle.

Olive oil is widely recommended in the maintenance of horse saddles which use similar hard leather, and beeswax is used in many of the products folks use on their brooks saddles including Proofide. The cost of a large shoe polish tin's worth is less than $2. The results speak for themselves.


http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4046/5081321428_0fede6d695.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/happytriggerfinger/5081321428/)
70s Brooks Professional (http://www.flickr.com/photos/happytriggerfinger/5081321428/) by mattface (http://www.flickr.com/people/happytriggerfinger/), on Flickr

How timely this forum is. I'll have some bike-y issue come up, formulate a question about it, and find that the very subject is being discussed. (Of course I only have these questions because I started reading C&V in the first place!)

So I just picked up a Wright's saddle for $8. Have to look hard at those pics on CL sometimes. It seems to be in good shape, the leather all intact and smooth, but it is hard as a rock. I did a light Proofide treatment on top and bottom and let it sit in the hot sun after doing so. It looks prettier now but still seems just as hard. I have to admit I have not ridden it yet; maybe that would help, but I'm leery of entrusting my hiney to the equivalent of a 2x4 for two hours. Any thoughts?

I ended up with a saddle that I was sure was completely gone. I soaked it in olive oil and it is holding up well.

Did you also rub some garlic on it?

Mama mia! That's some tasty saddle....

How timely this forum is. I'll have some bike-y issue come up, formulate a question about it, and find that the very subject is being discussed. (Of course I only have these questions because I started reading C&V in the first place!)

So I just picked up a Wright's saddle for $8. Have to look hard at those pics on CL sometimes. It seems to be in good shape, the leather all intact and smooth, but it is hard as a rock. I did a light Proofide treatment on top and bottom and let it sit in the hot sun after doing so. It looks prettier now but still seems just as hard. I have to admit I have not ridden it yet; maybe that would help, but I'm leery of entrusting my hiney to the equivalent of a 2x4 for two hours. Any thoughts?

I think you'll be fine. It's a hard leather saddle; it's supposed to be hard. It should be comfortable from the beginning. If it becomes more comfortable over time, it will be mostly from your getting accustomed to it; the saddle's shape may change a little over the years, which is fine, but not to be encouraged.

I'd love to pick up a rock-hard Wrights saddle for $8. They're great saddles.

Give it some time; if you don't like it, you can easily sell it again.

Thanks rhm. The Wright's wasn't advertised as such; a guy was selling off lots of parts, mostly crap, and had pictures of them by category; there were 6 or 7 vinyl saddles and this one in the photo at $8 each...I emailed immediately to ask if it was leather. I also have a Brooks Pro coming from a C&V trade. Between the two I will know for sure if this type of saddle is for me!

Sorry for the mini-thread-jack!

Someone here on the forum recomended Lansino breast feeding cream. It worked pretty good but I have to wonder if Udder Butter would work for those who haven't just weened their children.

I recently bought a tub of the V-O saddle conditioner but haven't used it yet. Has anyone else?

http://store.velo-orange.com/index.php/components/saddles/vo-saddle-care.html

Neal

http://www.pecard.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=Pecard&Product_Code=PLD2-5&Category_Code=leathdress

I've used Pecard's on Wright and Ideale saddles for years. Also works great on old camera leather.

Top

I should also add the the product I've used on completely dried out saddles is the horse tack treatment Ko-Cho-Line:

http://www.beval.com/Products/Ko-Cho-Line/5031001.aspx

It smells awful, but a layer slathered on the bottom of a dried out saddle, then leave the saddle in a big in a warm place until it absorbs, really works well.

Neal

Hi folks!

I know it's beaten subject but wanted to share what worked for me better than anything else. I ride about 30 miles of the Lake Shore Bike Trail almost daily, including winter. Chicago weather gets wet and the salty spray from the road hits the road bike saddle from beneath and above, so daily saddle care is a must. Here's what works for me better than Proofide: Weekly application of a thin layer of Obenauf's Heavy Duty Leather Preservative (LP) for waterproofing and daily application of a very thin layer (a few drops) of Farnam "Leather New" Liquid Glycerin based soap for cleaning and brilliant, glossy shine. Both components are 100% natural and work like a charm keeping my saddle in a like-new condition, despite the harsh riding environment. I was using Proofide before but the two make my saddle feel and look better. Not to mention that the two components will probably last for life.. :-)

Happy riding!

Proofide is fairly expensive, but a little bit goes a long way. I still have plenty left in the tin that came with my Team Pro 25+ years ago.

HA! me too. a little goes a LONG way.

I use the sqeezins from the adrenal glands of adolescent ....

Oops.

I think the secret, which of course, there isn't one, is that both Proofide and Snoseal are waxes mixed with a little oil. Not much oil, but oils suspended in wax. I personally would never use an oil that might go rancid. Not sure if olive oil goes rancid, but I wouldn't use it myself. Snoseal and Proofide are relatively cheap.

I've got a chemist friend in the cosmetic chemistry sector....the Proofide ingredients list is easy enough to come by

Tallow, Cod oil, Vegetable Oil, Parrafin wax, Beeswax, Citronella oil


Says so right on my tin...

I've got a chemist friend in the cosmetic chemistry sector....the Proofide ingredients list is easy enough to come by

Tallow, Cod oil, Vegetable Oil, Parrafin wax, Beeswax, Citronella oil


You needed a chemist to figure out the mystery ingredients?

http://www.bikeman.com/store/graphics/00000001/Alt-imageB/SA/SA1250B.jpg