Southern California - Acerbic Article in OC Register, Cars vs Bikes

The article is ridiculous, almost as much as the comments attached to the article.

http://www.ocregister.com/articles/cyclists-266278-county-cycling.html

what a ****ing idiot

Yep. That article really ticked me off.

I'm pretty sure idiots like him are the cause of the problem.

The guy posts here occasionally, usually to shill his articles with a hit and run post. Maybe you all should PM your thoughts on the matter to him?

http://www.bikeforums.net/member.php?112977-DavidWhiting

I don't see anything terrifically wrong with his article. Maybe not well balanced, but definitely not out of place.

This article gets the conversation going. That's a start. One could argue about it's content but the issues are still the same. Whiting at that meeting somehow thinks that Phase I comes first and that bike groups organized as clubs can actually self regulate their members. That's a big assumption. Those 80 deaths, how many are group or club rides?

The proof is in the pudding. The deaths in the future could very well be with riders who ride for their basic transportation to and from work as dish washers in our restaurants, etc. But then again, nobody cares about these people....or do they?

In today's FM radio on KPCC, there was a discussion about the Tea Party and what drives them. The political commentator was saying it was about tea party members not belonging to any particular party and members wanting to cause change in the way people "think" about our lives, not just an affinity towards any particular political party.

The change starts with how we think about riding and how drivers think about riders and their responsibilities to avoid distractions with cell phones etc.

If Whiting could get those 80 fatalities and do a piece on all of them, even interview the local authorities, their official reports, eye witnesses, and get funding from some kind of Pew Charitable Trust, or whatever, to air on Public Television, that would help in how we all "think" about this issue. First comes a thought, then an act, unless we act without thinking.

It only took him 9 months to report back after his sit down w/ OC Wheelmen rep.

FYI, in his little poll, 68% said "Do not ban cyclists from the road" while the other 32% of the losers said yes. That's gotta bunch up his panties.

I agree that it is important to get people thinking about how cars and bikes can coexist, but he seems to draw a correlation between the way bike club members ride and the 80 deaths. There isn't any evidence of that.

Any campaign to inform the public and to influence their thinking has to be done in an organized and deliberate way. We all know that just from the media, like it or not. I'm not sure that Whiting in his Phase I or II is actually going to do that.

GC, I think you've got it right.

This is about urging a different thought process for everyone who uses the roads. I also ride a motorcycle and for years have noticed indifference and sometimes hostility toward bikers. However, recently the state of CA declared the month of May to be Motorcycle Awareness Month, and had the phrase "Look Twice -- Save a Life" on several major freeway signs throughout the state. I'm certaintly not naive enough to believe that this is sufficient to make me completely safe from all the distracted motorists, or even the majority of them, but it starts the process of awareness. It's kinda like seatbelts, when they created a culture that made it important to wear them, most people did (even without it being a law...).

Here's a suggestion, how about better driver's education? Sure cyclists in packs can be very obnoxious but the majority are not. I think the biggest solutions to the problem are better driver's training, harsher fines for cell phone/text usage. From the cyclist's end, they need the "elders" and members of the rides to instill better decorum in the group, swarming cars, taking more than one lane, rolling lights etc.

I laughed out loud when I saw that he wanted cyclists to ride single file from now on.

Here's a suggestion, how about better driver's education? Sure cyclists in packs can be very obnoxious but the majority are not. I think the biggest solutions to the problem are better driver's training, harsher fines for cell phone/text usage. From the cyclist's end, they need the "elders" and members of the rides to instill better decorum in the group, swarming cars, taking more than one lane, rolling lights etc.

I laughed out loud when I saw that he wanted cyclists to ride single file from now on.

Hit the nail on the head I think.

20 question multi-choice and a ride around the block is laughable at best. :roflmao2:

I laughed out loud when I saw that he wanted cyclists to ride single file from now on.

I laughed when he talked about taking peoples ability to wear a club jersey away for a month. WHO CARES. Also maybe they can be grounded from watching TV for a week. That'll teach 'em!

What a joke.

I laughed when he talked about taking peoples ability to wear a club jersey away for a month.

Me too because now I'll know how to identify clubster scofflaws. They'll be the OFWG freds in their AC/DC Primal Wear jerseys.

Where does the Register get all their horrible writers? This guy isn't as bad as most, although he doesn't seem to know that there's a difference between a sentance and a paragraph.

Blogger researched OC accident stats (http://www.cyclelicio.us/2010/orange-county-cyclist-deaths/)...


Similar thinking recently shared by Malibu, it seems?

Where does the Register get all their horrible writers? This guy isn't as bad as most, although he doesn't seem to know that there's a difference between a sentance and a paragraph.

Sentence!:p

I think his intentions were noble in creating the article and the poll. Aside from obeying the traffic laws and clubs regulating themselves, I do not fully agree on some of his ideas/proposals. However, as he has pointed out himsellf, those are just ideas and ideas can make sense or don't. I do not see him as an "idiot" though for writing something that will bring awareness to a rider's safety. He may sound ignorant or clueless to some of you but to each his own I guess. I do not see him as a pro-automobile advocate as well and will be looking forward to his next article about the automobile driver's responsibility.

I am a cyclist who is sometimes ashamed/aggravated at some of the stunts I see other cyclists pull. It is very obvious to me that a lot of road cyclists are either not very cognizant of traffic rules, or they choose to flagrantly disobey/ignore such rules. I see it all the time while riding or motoring.

Of course, that is no excuse for motorists to try and intimidate cyclists, but I think the first rule of self-presevation is that cyclists can not come out ahead in any physical contact with motorists, so it behooves us to obey all traffic laws and to make sure we try and acquire the skills to ride safely on the road.

Just my two cents.

Personally I don't disagree with the premise of the article - yes - there are alot of idiots cyclist out there. I see them personally every week. I can't tell you how often I have been passed with riders going way to fast and dangerous for the conditions and stopping for red lights - for get about it!!!

What I thought interesting where the clubs he called out at the end - mostly MTB clubs. How do they control what happens on the road???? And the one club he didn't call out but should have? BCI - Bike Club of Irvine, which is larger than OCW and contains more offenders. I stopped riding with the club becuase they would not police its members.

Bottom line we have to watch out. Cars just don't see us like we see them. We also need to obey all traffic laws and act reasonably. No life lost is a good thing.

Namedroppers are so sad, but even more sad when dropping the wrong names.

The author of the above article (Whiting) did not think things through before making his suggestions. Perhaps he is a new cyclist? Or does not ride very much? Or only rides on MUPs? I dunno. He comes at the whole issue with a standard motorist's tactic, that of trying to get us off the road (or limit our access) by saying it's for our safety. And because he doesn't grasp the very basics, I question his credibility.

After doing a rudimentary examination of some cyclist deaths in OC, BikinginLA (http://bikinginla.wordpress.com/2010/09/16/blaming-the-victims-in-oc-%E2%80%94-bad-behavior-isn%E2%80%99t-behind-the-high-rate-of-bike-deaths/) had a few things to say:

Just how many of those recent deaths resulted from club rides or cyclists blowing through stop signals or riding two abreast?


While I have no doubt his heart is in the right place, it sounds like another case of saying we have to clean up our act so drivers won’t kill us, rather than placing the blame squarely where it belongs — on dangerous drivers, bad infrastructure and lax enforcement.


If you see any collision on that list that could have been prevented by observing stop signals or riding single file, you’re doing better than me.


That’s seven deaths in nine months — none of which involved cyclists running red lights or stop signs, or riding two or more abreast. And only two involving multiple riders or club rides.


In the meantime, though, let’s agree that cyclists should ride safely and observe the law. But stop blaming the victims. And stop pretending that it’s the behavior of bicyclists that puts us at risk.

And here's a couple quotes from Cyclelicious (http://www.cyclelicio.us/2010/orange-county-cyclist-deaths/) concerning the same article:

So I’m puzzled when avid cyclist David Whiting points at a roomful of club riders and tells them “cyclists need to clean up their act” before we’re ready to focus on driver safety. Because, after all, when “packs [of cyclists] block streets, they scare the bejeebers out of drivers.”


We as cyclists should be courteous, and we should share the road by riding legally, but pelotons of cyclists hogging the road and blowing stop signs is not a bike safety issue in Orange County or anywhere else. Will single file riding do anything to prevent cyclist fatalities in Orange County? Should a bike club really suspend membership for rolling a stop sign, which is something that 97% of motorists are also guilty of (http://www.slate.com/id/2254863/)? Can we also call on the AAA to suspend benefits for their members who are observed violating the rules of the road and not exercising common courtesy on the road?


The handful of times I’ve been hit by a car, I was always riding lawfully on a properly equipped bicycle. The two times I’ve been hit at night, I had plenty of lights and reflectors. My only sin, perhaps, is too much courtesy on my part: The two times I’ve been hooked maybe could have been avoided if I was a little more assertive in my lane positioning.

There are as many dolts on bicycles as there are driving cars.

If Whiting really wants to write and informative news article, why doesn't he RESEARCH bicycle accidents in OC and give us some statistics based on what he finds - were the cyclists using lights while riding at night?, did they fail to stop at lights/stop signs? or give right-of-way to other vehicles that had it?, were they on the wrong side of the street? . . . stuff like that so the major reasons for bicycle/vehicle collisions can be put into perspective. Simply making a readers poll only makes for pretty weak newpaper filler.

As for the Register's poor writing - its always been a slightly tabloidish newspaper, not as concerned with accuracy (relative to other newspapers) as to getting the story in print AND putting a somewhat overdramatic spin on things, too, to help attract readers.

There are as many dolts on bicycles as there are driving cars.

Unless you are talking percentages, you are sadly mistaken. Millions of cars = tens of thousands of scumbag drivers.

If you are talking percentages, you are correct and lop-sidedly so. The amount of dumbass, wrong-way and sidewalk riders I see daily is staggering as far as percentages go. Even so, most of the offenders I see are more than likely not DL holders, nor able to comprehend what they are doing wrong due to cultural differences.

At least thirty years ago researchers at USC studied 1,000 motorcycle fatalities in SoCal. The who, what, when, where, how of every crash was included. The results were insightful, and they guided my motorcycle riding techniques while I was a rider. In one sentence, cars making left turns or pulling out of side streets will kill you, and wear a real helmet.

As surfrider (and others) have written, an understanding of bicycle fatalities and possible solutions will only come from a sober compilation of real accidents facts.

At least thirty years ago researchers at USC studied 1,000 motorcycle fatalities in SoCal. The who, what, when, where, how of every crash was included. The results were insightful, and they guided my motorcycle riding techniques while I was a rider. In one sentence, cars making left turns or pulling out of side streets will kill you, and wear a real helmet.

As surfrider (and others) have written, an understanding of bicycle fatalities and possible solutions will only come from a sober compilation of real accidents facts.

This pretty much says it all. You have to be on your toes at all times. Make eye contact, but know that even then the car might do something stupid. I've had an idiot make eye contact, pull out in front of me then get scared and stop. The only way I avoided that accident was by being heads up. I can't even count the number of left-hooks I've had to avoid.

What people in cars don't take into account at all is that some of what we do that they may see as 'illegal' is actually legal and the only way to do it. Take for instance a left turn. If I'm going down a road with a bike lane and need to make a left turn, I have to go across many lanes of traffic. There's no way to avoid it. I can point and do it at the best possible time, but I've got to do it none the less. If that means a car has to brush their brakes and lose 2 seconds of time, then so be it. I've had people honk at me for slowing them down even though it was a red light. What did I do? Slow you down from waiting in line? Are you kidding?

Another thing that is ignored is that fact that bikes are legal to have on the road. If you have 20 people riding bikes taking a lane and a completely open lane next to you for cars to drive by, what is wrong with that? If it were 20 people in a bus would the passing car feel the need to honk? Probably not. Some drivers just go absolutely insane when they see a bike, though. It's almost not explainable.

One illegal thing I do is not wait at left turn lights when there is no car behind me. I've seen too many accidents with cars, motorcycles and bikes where someone waiting to make a left turn had a car come up behind and hit them. When I've got traffic just to my right at 50mph and nothing coming the other direction, I'm going. If there is a car behind me for protection, that's different, I'll wait for the light. By myself, though, I can't trigger the light and I'm a sitting duck. If I ever get arrested for it, I'll tell the cop my story, but it's not something that I'm ever going to apologize for. I'd much rather get a ticket for running the light as opposed to rear-ended by a car.

Whiting is, basically, an idiot. I read his MTB stuff from time to time, but this article is just mass stupidity.

The writer has posted a follow-up piece (http://www.ocregister.com/articles/cyclists-267335-riders-drivers.html).

The writer should insert himself in those competitive rides like Como/Coffee/Food park, I think thats where you get alot of mad drivers and some racer knuckle heads that add fuel to the fire.

The writer should insert himself in those competitive rides like Como/Coffee/Food park, I think thats where you get alot of mad drivers and some racer knuckle heads that add fuel to the fire.

Those seriousszzz roadiesszzz schwantz-measuring contests on bicycles are always FAIL.

Even so, I doubt a weekend warrior like Whiting could ever hope to keep up with those creeps.

if he saw the ignorant responses below his articles, he would realize the biggest cause of the problems are the aggressive drivers with the "you are not a car get out of my road since you don't pay taxes for roads and are making me 6 seconds later to my destination" attitudes. I've been honked at and yelled at plenty of times while following the laws and what he suggested as far as riding in single file and trying to stay out of the way. The bottom line is, there are more idiots behind the wheel than there are on bikes. That's a fact.

The writer should insert himself in those competitive rides like Como/Coffee/Food park, I think thats where you get a lot of mad drivers and some racer knuckle heads that add fuel to the fire.

C'mon, you're talking Saturday and Sunday morning. The amount of traffic that gets blocked on those rides is pretty minimal. In a lot of places they stay in the bike lanes and in the places were they don't it's either 2 lanes in the same direction (i.e. easy to pass) or the back roads of Rancho Santa Margarita. Regardless, those rides are not the question. That's not where people are getting ran over and killed. Generally speaking, cyclists are ran over and killed when they are riding alone or in small groups and doing so completely legally. The guy in Irvine was in a group of 3, but had dropped back on a climb while in the car pool lane. The guy in Newport was in a small group, but off the back and descending in the lane at about car speed. There are all sorts of other examples, but I can't think of any in recent history that were in a big group ride. I'd say the most obnoxious ride of the year is the New Year's ride on PCH and while people might crash, I haven't seen anyone hit buy a car.

Or were you saying that drivers get frustrated because of big group rides so it's OK for them to take out a lone rider or two at some other point?

C'mon, you're talking Saturday and Sunday morning. The amount of traffic that gets blocked on those rides is pretty minimal. In a lot of places they stay in the bike lanes and in the places were they don't it's either 2 lanes in the same direction (i.e. easy to pass) or the back roads of Rancho Santa Margarita. Regardless, those rides are not the question. That's not where people are getting ran over and killed. Generally speaking, cyclists are ran over and killed when they are riding alone or in small groups and doing so completely legally. The guy in Irvine was in a group of 3, but had dropped back on a climb while in the car pool lane. The guy in Newport was in a small group, but off the back and descending in the lane at about car speed. There are all sorts of other examples, but I can't think of any in recent history that were in a big group ride. I'd say the most obnoxious ride of the year is the New Year's ride on PCH and while people might crash, I haven't seen anyone hit buy a car.

Or were you saying that drivers get frustrated because of big group rides so it's OK for them to take out a lone rider or two at some other point?


This is just from my experience. I felt that the drivers get frustrated and lead to disliking us anyhow big or small...(Mandeville Canyon road rage). Now with most accidents out there, yes I agree its from inattentiveness from the drivers. So I see that we are dealing with two types of issues here. Which are haters and bad drivers. The writer seems to be pleasing the haters by taking out the fun of riding our bikes. Haters whos blood hasnt boiled yet will be well aware of us and avoid the accident.

I laughed out loud when I saw that he wanted cyclists to ride single file from now on. I laughed out loud when I saw that he wanted cyclists to ride single file from now on.
What is needed before deciding what to do to make cycling safer, what's needed IS a scientific study of the causes of bicycle accidents. It seems that most are motorist-caused. If that's so, probabably not a lot that can be done. Cycling is a high-risk endeavor, especially road cycling. It's what we gotta live with.

Maybe the guy should ride a bike and then realize that it's not every cyclists that does ridiculous things and it's only a handful of people. Most cyclists i encounter are safe and follow the laws. every once in awhile, there's that one idiot.

The problem with the article isn't necessarily that he's wrong, but he's giving drivers a free pass and assigning blame to the cyclists. Right or wrong, it gives drivers justification to keep driving like madmen.

Maybe the guy should ride a bike and then realize that it's not every cyclists that does ridiculous things and it's only a handful of people. Most cyclists i encounter are safe and follow the laws. every once in awhile, there's that one idiot.
His beam of consciousness is so narrow, he'll never see the big picture unless he gets out more often. I'd like to see him go car-free for a month and then get back to scribbling.

The article is ridiculous, almost as much as the comments attached to the article.
http://www.ocregister.com/articles/cyclists-266278-county-cycling.html
You guys have an issue with someone reporting what happened at a bicycle club meeting? Or someone trying to help prevent cyclists from being killed? Working with a club trying to find solutions. You may not agree with what he proposed but at least he is making an effort.

I have a question for you. Specifically what parts of the article did you find ridiculous? Or decide that he is an idiot?

You guys have an issue with someone reporting what happened at a bicycle club meeting? Or someone trying to help prevent cyclists from being killed? Working with a club trying to find solutions. You may not agree with what he proposed but at least he is making an effort. The effort he made was ridiculously weak. It amounted to what drivers already do: make all cyclists (through clubs) responsible for the actions of the few. But he/they are not willing to make all drivers responsible for the actions of their few.


I have a question for you. Specifically what parts of the article did you find ridiculous? Or decide that he is an idiot?Go back and re-read this thread. The answer to this question is in there (as well as what I said above).

The effort he made was ridiculously weak. It amounted to what drivers already do: make all cyclists (through clubs) responsible for the actions of the few. But he/they are not willing to make all drivers responsible for the actions of their few. I agree on the not ready for phase 2 being BS.


Go back and re-read this thread. The answer to this question is in there (as well as what I said above). Honestly I only replied to the first 2 posts on this thread by mistake. My mistake. I didn't notice that there were more posts untill later. I don't often apologize but I will here. Sorry about that Chief.
Also I did see in the article some things that I did not agree with but I thought any effort is better than doing nothing and if the guy is sincere he won't drop the ball & may learn a thing or two. We'll see. He did respond back to some feedback with a follow up. Time will tell.

Honestly I only replied to the first 2 posts on this thread by mistake. My mistake. I didn't notice that there were more posts untill later. I don't often apologize but I will here. Sorry about that Chief.. Not Chief by a long shot. :D No worries though.


Also I did see in the article some things that I did not agree with but I thought any effort is better than doing nothing...I would disagree. If it's a wrong effort, it can do more damage than leaving it alone. He just did not think through his argument before putting it out there and this may just fuel anti-cyclists.

Not Chief by a long shot. :D No worries though.

I would disagree. If it's a wrong effort, it can do more damage than leaving it alone. He just did not think through his argument before putting it out there and this may just fuel anti-cyclists.
1st: It is a Don Adams quote (Get Smart) that I have used for decades.
2nd: I personally don't think he has done much damage but that's ok. I respect your opinion. Life would be boring if we all agreed on everything. I do agree in your statement about if it's a wrong effort. (I know I am contradicting myself here, I am saying that my statement earlier about "any effort" was wrwrwr, wrwrwwr well you know.) I am just not sure that it is.

He definitely did not do a great job on that first article. In my first post I thought I was going to stir up more opinions, I had not realized that was already done. I won't call him an idiot though. I will give him the benefit of the doubt for now.