Advocacy & Safety - Do I have a choice?

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Scrockern8r
09-16-10, 01:02 PM
Repost from Road Cycling...
The new roundabouts built in my area are configured for bicycles to exit and use the cross walks for side streets. They then usually "drop' back into a bicycle lane.
When crossing at the crosswalk, it is at a right angle to traffic and I usually have to stop and confirm that a vehicle is actually giving me the right of way. Plus if a car is blocking the view in the near lane, I use great care to make sure another vehicle doesn't come rushing out in the further lane.
This example shows the bike lane exiting onto the sidewalk (http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=tumwater,+WA&sll=47.037873,-122.828664&sspn=0.000978,0.001725&gl=us&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Tumwater,+Thurston,+Washington&t=k&ll=47.043972,-122.911641&spn=0.000489,0.000862&z=20).
Here is a street view (http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=tumwater,+WA&sll=47.037873,-122.828664&sspn=0.000978,0.001725&gl=us&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Tumwater,+Thurston,+Washington&t=k&ll=47.045273,-122.912762&spn=0.000489,0.000862&z=20&layer=c&cbll=47.045347,-122.912836&panoid=Le3QtX9McubsxRgQFK9aJA&cbp=12,341.51,,0,21.08). That fuzzy white blob on the street light on the right side is a sign that reads "Bicycle lane ends."
It's not official, but it looks to me like the round-a-bout is designed to keep traffic under ~20mph.
If I am traveling above 12mph, I ignore the exit signs and take the lane in the round-a-bout until I take my exit and then move back into the bicycle lane when it becomes available. If I am slower than that, and feel I may impede traffic flow, I take the sidewalk as indicated by the signs.
The signs read 'bike lane ends' and 'bicycles use sidewalk'.
Am I courting the flames of danger and riding like an outlaw?
The most important question... Can I get a ticket for not exiting the roadway as directed?
hotbike
09-16-10, 01:12 PM
I had a look at that street view. I think the bike ramp leading to the sidewalk is intelligently designed. It is longer and shallower than a "wheelchair ramp", and I think you could take that ramp at more than twelve MPH.
I would use it. Time will tell if this design gets used elsewhere, or if it is just one Civil Engineer's folly, in Tumwater , WA.
noisebeam
09-16-10, 01:17 PM
Don't use the sidewalk. If you are not making the next roundabout exit you are out of the stream of traffic and need to cross like a pedestrian. If you are exiting, the sidewalk narrows and has poles in it and after the bend crosses a driveway. Yikes.
ItsJustMe
09-16-10, 01:21 PM
It may be a choice you have to make each time. I would not get on the sidewalk if there are pedestrians present. If the roundabout design speed is 20 MPH, I probably would never use it, I'd stay on the road.
Scrockern8r
09-16-10, 01:37 PM
I had a look at that street view. I think the bike ramp leading to the sidewalk is intelligently designed. It is longer and shallower than a "wheelchair ramp", and I think you could take that ramp at more than twelve MPH.
I would use it. Time will tell if this design gets used elsewhere, or if it is just one Civil Engineer's folly, in Tumwater , WA.
Thanks hotbike. I missed part of my point. I edited my post to point out that using the crosswalk often necessitates a stop. I don't have an issue with the ramping, or crosswalks. That is not why I take the lane while traveling at speed. As a vehicle upon the roadway, other vehicles are better able to see me. (I think).
If I am traveling slowly enough to impede traffic, I take the crosswalk.
The Human Car
09-17-10, 07:18 AM
Unless WA has a mandatory side-path law you are free to avoid the sidewalk area. Also the end bike lane sign and dashed bike lane are engineers way of saying you can merge with traffic.
sggoodri
09-17-10, 07:32 AM
I personally wouldn't use the sidewalk. I find that I can negotiate roundabouts up to the size of that one as easily on a bike as in my car. I love riding through roundabouts; I think they are more convenient and efficient for cycling than normal intersections.
The sign is black on white, however, which is used for regulatory signs that normally carry the weight of law unless the sign conflicts with the law and was therefore installed improperly. You'll need to check your state and local laws to determine if the local authorities can mandate that you use the sidewalk.
nelson249
09-17-10, 08:23 AM
One of these has just be installed at the bottom of my street. As the bike lane ends I shift to the left (after looking of course) take the lane and can usually run through the roundabout faster than the cars can do it. The local government here, on their website, gives cyclists the option of either joining traffic or bail out and become a pedestrian.
http://www.region.waterloo.on.ca/web/region.nsf/roundabouts_faqs2.html#qn14
San Rensho
09-17-10, 08:42 AM
Ignore the bikelane, its dangerous, just take the lane before you enter the roundabout and proceed. The speed will be pretty slow, you will probably be able to go as fast or faster than cars. Just be aware, most cars don't know the right of way rules for roundabouts, that the vehicles IN the roundabout have the right of way, so wattch out for cars entering the circle not giving you the right of way.
lechatmort
09-17-10, 08:52 AM
They use that design quite often here. If I'm going somewhere fast I usually ignore the separated bicycle crossings, as you can't count on drivers giving you your right of way. Nobody ever complains because actually using the roundabout is very smooth.
It's handy for people who don't know how to negotiate a roundabout on a bicycle (taking the lane, signaling) though.
Scrockern8r
09-17-10, 09:50 AM
I like the round-abouts as well. I find them easier to navigate on bike than a busy, light controlled, intersection, especially for "turning left".
Plus they remove all the complexity and expense of infrastructure and keep traffic moving.
I did some more digging. I couldn't find specific ordinances, but did eventually find a video posted by Washington State Department of Transportation (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y05qGz5B1Wg) (WSDOT) on youtube.
Cool.
Sounds like a dangerous design by a highway engineer who thinks (sic) that cyclists have to be protected. Take the lane, get round the roundabout asap, watch out for idiot drivers who don't understand how to use them.
Classic cause of collisions on them is driver, looking well to his left, to see if it's clear, and not noticing cyclist between 45-90 degrees already on r'bout. I speak from personal (UK) experience.
ianbrettcooper
09-17-10, 09:38 PM
I would not touch that sidewalk with a ten foot pole. As others have said it endangers you no matter which exit you're taking. Whoever designed that death trap should be fired.
Roundabouts are perfectly safe as long as we take the lane and watch for cars not giving us the right of way when we're in the roundabout.
You need to talk to Dan Burden and other experts on traffic calming. The whole idea of modern tight-radius traffic circles is to slow traffic to about 15mph. These facilities are intentionally designed to give bicyclists the option of traversing them in either a vehicular or a pedestrian fashion. If you are traveling at pedestrian speed (up to 5mph), cautiously use the bailout ramp and the pelican crossing, but if you are going more than 10mph, safely merge into the travel lane and claim the lane all the way through the circle. There is a gray area between 5 and 10 mph. I have two in my immediate neighborhood. Going downhill (westbound) on Leucadia Bl. at Hymettus, I take the lane. Going uphill (eastbound), I take a short detour around the circle, on Fulvia St.
http://www.mapquest.com/maps?city=Encinitas&state=CA&address=Leucadia+Blvd+%26+Hymettus+Ave&zipcode=92024&country=US&latitude=33.064709&longitude=-117.29617&geocode=INTERSECTION
Above all else, never cower along the right margin of the circle, tempting a motorist to try to share it with you.
mikeybikes
09-18-10, 11:46 AM
As with all roundabouts I go through, just take the vehicular approach. Move into the regular traffic lane appropriate for your destination.
Most roundabouts are designed to keep traffic under 15mph. For me, this makes cycling through them rather easy.
Standalone
09-18-10, 12:28 PM
I like the design. The ramp allows for inexperienced/very young/very elderly cyclists to have a slow riding option in the sidewalk. As long as all riders have the option of using the roundabout, which it appears they do.
I'd use the sidewalk if situational awareness told me that there was major sketchiness in the roundabout-- a teenager trying to race around a semi or some freak backed up traffic.
The end of bike lane signage is unfortunate-- there should be language that indicates that bikes may merge with traffic, if that is what the engineers intend.
The end of bike lane signage is unfortunate-- there should be language that indicates that bikes may merge with traffic, if that is what the engineers intend.
Yes, sharrows or some sort of "bicyclists merging into lane" signage might help. I don't know about "share the road," because that might encourage lane-splitting into and within the circle, which is precisely what we don't want.
SCROUDS
09-18-10, 11:13 PM
Bikes May Use Full Lane sign after the bike lane ends should get the message across nicely.
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