Hybrid Bicycles - Need help. New Commuter/Exercise bike for around 1500$

Hi,

I�m looking for a new bike to use for Commuting, exercising and for longer touring sometimes.

I�m from Sweden but live in California at the moment, but will be taking the bike back with me to Sweden once I go home again. In Sweden I have a Trek FX 7.3 that I have been very happy with. I bike everyday for about 10 miles and I like going on exercise bike trips on the weekends. I want to get a new bike that have better gearing than the 7.3 but I have a hard time finding any. The one bike I have found so far is the new Specialized Sirrus Expert http://www.specialized.com/us/en/bc/SBCProduct.jsp?spid=52893&scid=1001&scname=Road but it is not out in the stores yet.

I am 6.4 tall so I need a 62 cm frame and a lot of the manufacturers don�t make the bikes that big. Do you have any suggestions for me on already made bikes that is similar to the Specialized or Trek FX?

I am also considering building the bike up, but have a hard time figuring out what parts I should get.

My needs are:
Flat bar with Bar-ends
2 x 10 gearing. I think Sram Rival or so would be good. (I won�t be riding any hills, so I don�t want 3 x whatever)
I want it to be pretty fast.
Be able to put fenders and rack on.
Pretty lightweight since I am going to carry it up a lot of the times, 4 stories to my flat.
Wheels: 28 or 32 cc, for comfort but still speedy.

What would you recommend me if I would build it my self?
Frame:
Fork:
Wheels:
Tire:
Gear system:
Shifters:
Brakes:
Brake levers:
Pedals Regular/+SPD:
Bar + Bar-ends:

Would it be crazy more expensive to build it yourself if you buy the stuff off ebay and other places? How much should you put into the different components % wise out of the budget?

Hope you guys can help me out because I really could use some help, suggestions and input on this.

What you want is possibly the wrong thing. 2x10 speed gear systems are finicky, a pain to maintain, and burn through rings, chains and cassettes much faster. If your current gears have the wrong range, change the cassette and/or chain rings. Put faster tyres on and maybe a long stem, bar ends, and you're done. You can get rid of the inner chain ring while you do this if you want.

Giant Rapid 0

http://www.giant-bicycles.com/en-us/bikes/model/rapid.0/3875/36259/

Giant Rapid 0

http://www.giant-bicycles.com/en-us/bikes/model/rapid.0/3875/36259/

Yes .. excellent choice !

Hey, thanks for the replies. I've looked at the Giant Rapid 0 already and it looks very nice, but it only comes in 58.5 cm as max. That is to small for me. I need a 62 or 64 cm frame. I was looking into the Trek FX 7.7 which looks pretty nice too, but is a bit too expensive for what you get in my opinion, but when I checked with Trek they don't make the 7.7 in 64 cm frame even thought it says that on the website.

Meanwhile, so you are saying that road bike gears are wearing down quicker and are more difficult to maintain than mtb stuff or what? What gears would you recommend? I have no use of the small chain ring of a triple crank, I don't ride any steep hills. I would like a lot of gears in the rear because I prefer not to shift as much with the front dérailleur.

Hmm it acctually looks like the Giant Rapid 0 comes in a size that fits me when I looked at it again, if I read it correct. But when I look at it it seems like they don't make the Rapid 0 for 2011, do you guys know whats up?

As I said in the thread about the death of the Jamis Coda Comp, many bike manufacturers are cutting models within lines, downgrading components in remaining lines and reducing prices of models. I suppose as a response to the poor economy.

Hmm it acctually looks like the Giant Rapid 0 comes in a size that fits me when I looked at it again, if I read it correct. But when I look at it it seems like they don't make the Rapid 0 for 2011, do you guys know whats up?

When you say 62 cm do you mean the seat tube length or the top tube length? Neither of those bikes has a 62cm seat tube, both are getting close on the top tube. The Fuji Absolute 1.0 is available with a similarly sized frame and it meets most of your requirements save that it is a 3 ring bike. Mine has given me no trouble so far (it was new in March this year) and you can run all day on the big ring using the full rear cassette range if you like. It looks like the 2011's are dropping the disk brakes that were offered only in 2010 on this model and it sports a new frame.

What's up is that models come and go and if you can find a 2010 Rapid 0 in stock in your size you can probably get a good deal on it right now because the shop will want to clear them out.

If you want a light, fast bike would a road bike work? Many of them have eyelets for fenders, etc, they generally have your 2x10 transmission, and perhaps they are more commonly available in your size. The Fuji Roubaix 1.0 is available with a longer seat tube than any of the above, 61 cm, although the top tube is only 59 cm (you may be able to fix that with the right stem). You should be able to put flat bars on a road bike if you like though it could take some effort. People put drops on their flat bar hybrids so you might be able to save some of that effort by finding a hybrid owner who would swap your drops for his flats.

Ken

Frame Size center-to-center: 60 cm
Frame Size center-to-top: 62 cm

Thats the problem I have with findning a bike. A lot of them are to small or this years bikes are not the "top of the line", they kind of skipped those this year. Thats why Ive been thinking of building one instead. Get the parts and put it together. I don´t care if I buy the frame and wheels used, as long as they are in good shape. The gears I would like to get new though.
A lot of the time when there is sales going on from last years models, they don´t come in my size.

Buying a Road Bike instead creates some problems though. I would need to change Handle bars, Wheels/Tires and Shifters/Brakes. So then it feels like it would be better to build it from scratch.

To fit ten cogs between your drop outs requires narrow cogs and narrow chain. Cogs wear faster and chain wear is accelerated, which will cause chainrings to wear faster too.

Is this different than what it would be on a road bike you mean? How fast would it wear down/would I need to change the cassette and the chain? If I alternate with 3 chains wouldn´t that reduce the wear of the cassette and the chains, keeping the stuff clean?

On the business of sizing, just a quick thought: remember that most of the bikes you'd be looking at that would (roughly) fit the requirements you state are going to have 'compact geometry'. The most important dimensions, for you, will be (in no particular order) effective (horizontal) top tube length (reach), head tube length (saddle to bar drop and hence reach) and seat angle (reach again). For, e.g., a Sirrus or Giant Rapid those are the dimensions that matter. Seat tube length, within reason, is going to be a non-issue.

So in other words Frame Size center-to-top: 62 cm is the more important size to look at?

Is this different than what it would be on a road bike you mean? How fast would it wear down/would I need to change the cassette and the chain? If I alternate with 3 chains wouldn´t that reduce the wear of the cassette and the chains, keeping the stuff clean?

No it's the same for road bikes. Also, the risk of broken chain is increased with narrow ten speed chains. I've never heard of alternating three chains. I've never run a ten speed drivetrain, I don't know how fast it wears down. If you replace your chain frequently, that will slow the wear of the cogs and chainrings.

So in other words Frame Size center-to-top: 62 cm is the more important size to look at?

Actually, badger1 did not list seat tube length as one of the important dimensions, but I believe he is wrong and you are correct. Saddle height is the most important factor in bike fit. As you have noted, finding a bike that is tall enough is not easy for someone of your height.

Because different frames have different degrees of top tube slope, you should be looking at effective seat tube length rather than center-to-center or center-to-top measurements.

I've never heard of alternating three chains.

I haven't either. But it should work. Especially if chain swaps are frequent and used as an opportunity for extra thorough cleaning.

Meanwhile, so you are saying that road bike gears are wearing down quicker and are more difficult to maintain than mtb stuff or what? What gears would you recommend?

It's not so much road bike vs other as 10x and 11x vs 9x. The thinner chainrings are very demanding to engineer and so cost more, yet they wear out quicker. Chain maintenance becomes harder and more critical. A 11x Campag chain needs a dedicated £150 chain tool to open and close it - plus ideally a £100 tool to "re-peening" the rivet. 10x isn't as bad... but if you could find it your heart to use a 2 x 9 gear system, your life could be easier. And 2 x 9 covers quite a range, especially if you use a compact chain ring (compacts can have an inner ring of 34 teeth.) And I don't see what advantage you'd get out of 10x.

Or to be slightly whacky, you could get a bike with an Internal Gear Hub. In your shoes I might order a Surly Cross Check frame (they build up as really nice flat bars as well as drop bar bikes) and a Nexus IGH. Maintenance would be minimal and the Check is one of the most loved bikes there is. I'd be tempted to build it with moustache bars instead of flats, but these might be hard to get to work with an IGH. All the same:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3116/2570765647_504c9f971a.jpg?v=0

Replacing a chain every year is unlikely to stress your budget and it will ward off some to most of the gear wear. New cassettes are not a big expense either. I haven't looked at 10 speed chainrings but I doubt they will break the bank. I agree you will have more wear and maintenance with a 10 speed. I just don't think it will be a deal breaker for you. I have to hope that though since l have a 3x10....

I don't know how you feel about moustache bars. From the photo Meanwhile posted it appears that you can get them in a size to fit road bike shifters and brifters and brake levers. If you would be happy with a road bike converted that way it would save a lot of cost. The bars and tape would not add up to terribly much. I'm not trying to push you in that direction, just trying to give you some options.

Building up the bike you want from a bare frame is a great way to get just what you want. I can't even begin to tell you if your budget is reasonable for this approach. Maybe there is another sub forum here where you could get some advice on that. My LBS owner does that sort of thing. It isn't cheap but then the folks who go to him for that are not looking for cheap bikes and I don't know what a reasonable lower limit for that is from him. If you can do all the work yourself then all you need do is add up the price of the pieces.

Oh, if you only want 28mm tires I think most road bike rims are wide enough for them or even 32's.

Ken

Replace chain once a year!? The whole drivetrain will be wrecked by then!

Khutch -

A new 10 SRAM speed cassette, chain and chain rings each year will probably cost £150. Irritating, but not bankrupting. Unless the OP goes for high end SRAM, in which case a cassette can be more than this.

But I still don't understand why changing the cassette and chainrings on the current Trek isn't an option. Perhaps if the OP explained we'd have a better idea of what his need are.

Replace chain once a year!? The whole drivetrain will be wrecked by then!

Wow, you put on some serious miles then! Replace your chain when the wear reaches the limit. If that is once a week then so be it.

Ken

Right now I´m in the States and will be here for a while and I need a bike here that I will bring back to Sweden when I go back. I thought I would get a better bike than what I currently left back home in Sweden. I also would like it to be a bit lighter than the one I have, with better gears that corresponds to the type of roads I bike. I don´t need triple crank since I never ride hills. I want to use it for commuting but also for longer exercise rides.

The mustache bars looks to weird for my taste though, but wouldn't you be able to put Drop Shifters/Brakes on normal flat bars in the same way?

I read somewhere that it is good to alternate the chain from the beginning keeping them clean and also having 2-3 chains wearing down together with the cassette instead of waiting until one chain is worn down. That way everything lasts longer.

Gear wise I would think Sram Apex or Sram Rival would be good for the bike.

The Surly frame looks nice, but isn't it maybe a little bit heavy? I'm pretty certain on the 2 x 10 sram Apex/Rival choice, it's the rest that is making me confused :). Building the bike up would be kind of cool, since it would be my bike more than just a manufactured bike. Velocity makes nice looking colored rims for instance that would be fun to use, not sure how much that would cost though or if they are any good or which one I should choose.

I tried the Specialized Sirrus Expert 2011 today, it just arrived in the store. But it was only size L, so it was hard to know how the XL will feel. They will get it in the store in a couple of weeks they said. The bike was lightweight and felt pretty good. The barends gave a plastic feeling thought so that needs to be changed. However it still would be more fun to have built the bike yourself.

Right now I´m in the States and will be here for a while and I need a bike here that I will bring back to Sweden when I go back. I thought I would get a better bike than what I currently left back home in Sweden. I also would like it to be a bit lighter than the one I have, with better gears that corresponds to the type of roads I bike. I don´t need triple crank since I never ride hills. I want to use it for commuting but also for longer exercise rides.


Once again: any bike you can buy as a triple can be turned into a double, and cassettes and chain rings are easily changed to give different ratios.




The Surly frame looks nice, but isn't it maybe a little bit heavy?


You might have a 2lb weight penalty on the frame. Against that the Cross Check has built a cult of being fun, versatile, comfortable and extraordinarily tough and long lasting.

If you do buy a Cross Check (which you probably won't - it was an off the wall suggestion) get it sprayed with Frame Saver before you build it up.

I think that the geometry of drop bar brake levers and brifters is wrong for flat bars. I think they need a bar where the bar curves away from the mounting point to have enough clearance for the lever to operate. A moustache bar and some similar less extreme bars can provide this.

Places like http://www.nashbar.com and http://www.universalcycles.com can give you an idea what your parts cost for a custom build would be. It sounds like this is what you would really like to do so you should pursue it to the point where the cost becomes clear and you can then decide. It does not seem that we here can help you much with that although you have been give some good ideas on customizing a production bike and that might have to be your fallback plan when you determine the cost of your dream build!

Ken

The road cycling forum seems to do a lot of custom builds. In one recent thread I see some builds coming in under your budget: http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?661724-Show-Us-Your-Budget-Carbon-Fiber-bike-Build. Maybe it is possible if you do your own work. One thing is for sure, do this and you get to define for yourself what a hybrid bike is.

Ken

I'm pretty certain on the 2 x 10 sram Apex/Rival choice, it's the rest that is making me confused .

I can vouch for the 10X cassette. I have three high end hybrids and a mid level road racer. All except one have 9 speed cassettes. One has a 10X and believe it or not it does make a big difference. There always seems to be a proper gear for the situation whereas sometimes the 9 speeds seem either a tad too low or a tad too high at times. As far as increased wear I couldn't tell you. But I do ride the 10X (Trek 7.9FX) the most and it seems to be holding up fine. But I have no reason to doubt what the others say about wear intervals regardless of whether they actually have used a 10X driveline or not. Makes sense I suppose.

About the frame. So far there has only been one suggested, the Surly frame. What other frames would you suggest? I have been looking around a lot but it is hard to find a frame that A is the right size and B its hard for me to know if the frame is a good lightweight frame or not. So do any off you have any frames to suggest that would fit me and the style I want out of the bike? I would assume that for my budget it should cost around 500 dollars.

About the frame. So far there has only been one suggested, the Surly frame. What other frames would you suggest? I have been looking around a lot but it is hard to find a frame that A is the right size and B its hard for me to know if the frame is a good lightweight frame or not. So do any off you have any frames to suggest that would fit me and the style I want out of the bike? I would assume that for my budget it should cost around 500 dollars.

There isn't really much of a market for hybrid frames. If you want a wider choice you'll need to look at racing bike frames, many of which won't have the clearance you want, or cyclocross frames. The only hybrid I can think of that comes as frame is the Cotic Roadrat:

http://www.cotic.co.uk/product/roadrat

Cotic will answer questions about sizing and weight if the bike grabs your interest.

But if you can find a cross frame in your size that sizes you those 2lbs that are so important to you, you should be ok.

Thanks Meanwhile for your suggestions. The Roadrat looks kind of nice, but it over in UK. I was hoping to get something over here in the states. Yesterday I was surfing the net for 5 hours to find a road bike frame that would be good for me without any luck. As you say a Cross Frame might be what I should be looking for. Going to google Cross Frames like a crazy person now. Hope I will find something.

You are a guy who enjoys the hunt more than the capture. I hope you finally enjoy riding as much as you enjoy shopping.

Well yeah I like shopping, but what is more important to me is to buy what I want and be happy with it rather than buying something just of the shelf that I will be disappointed or not so satisfied with. I pretty much know what I want out of the bike, but I don't know what bike that is or what components to build it up with. I don't really see the meaning of you to write that, but hey I guess you rather talk down or comment stuff rather than helping out.

Well yeah I like shopping, but what is more important to me is to buy what I want and be happy with it rather than buying something just of the shelf that I will be disappointed or not so satisfied with. I pretty much know what I want out of the bike, but I don't know what bike that is or what components to build it up with. I don't really see the meaning of you to write that, but hey I guess you rather talk down or comment stuff rather than helping out.

I don't know, a lot of people on Bike Forums have really rigid opinions and to them the answer to every question is obvious. They aren't trying to be mean or anything like that, they are just trying to save you a lot of time/money based on their own experience and the conclusions they reached from it. Unfortunately we are all different and one solution does not fit all. If one size did fit all there would be a lot less bike models to choose from! If you strongly believe in prepackaged solutions then the time someone spends evaluating a custom build seems like wasted time. Those who believe strongly in custom solutions would look at what you are doing, smile, and know it is all just part of the process to get the bike you really want.

I suspect that most hybrid frames are going into factory bikes and that there is little market for them for custom builds. I think Meanwhile's suggestion to look at cross bike frames is a good one. Maybe you should poke around the Cyclocross forum to see if there are any build threads there that would have some suggestions.

Ken

I'm sorry. I wasn't talking down. I don't have reason to think you are beneath me in any way. You're younger, taller and richer than me. It was jealous that gave my post it's bitter flavor. I'm not trying to help, just commenting, that's true. When meanwhile didn't answer you question about ten speed, I tried to. Personally I think you could get better gearing with 9x3 and cheaper and less frequently replaced and more durable. I don't think 9 spd means bigger gaps between gears. You can have something like 11-12-13-14-15-16-17-19-21. That's nine with only a few small spaces inbetween.

Lennard Zinn is a tall bicycle maker who is particularly well known for building bikes for taller riders. His name sprung to my mind while reading the thread, but I looked and his frames alone cost more than what you wanted to spend on the whole bike. http://zinncycles.com/Zinn/index.php/test-page/project-big-custom-series/touringcommuter

I'm not too knowledgeable on the subject, that is true. I just looked up Independent Fabrications. They pricey too. http://www.ifbikes.com/OurBikes/Road/Steel_Independence/

Maybe the reason so many custom builds are on Surly platform is because one of the few makers of affordable frame sets?

Salsa is another popular maker. http://salsacycles.com/bikes/casseroll_double/frame/ I couldn't find the prices on their website which is not a good sign.

Enjoy the hunt!

Thanks Meanwhile for your suggestions. The Roadrat looks kind of nice, but it over in UK. I was hoping to get something over here in the states. Yesterday I was surfing the net for 5 hours to find a road bike frame that would be good for me without any luck. As you say a Cross Frame might be what I should be looking for. Going to google Cross Frames like a crazy person now. Hope I will find something.

The best things to do are probably

1. Go to the cyclocross forum and tell people you're looking for an alu or lightweight steel cross frame and what your size requirements are

2. Do a search on ebay - it's a fast way to see who makes cross frames. If you're looking for lightweight then Cannondale are usually a good bet; Giant and Trek should be ok too if you can find frame only packages.

3. Take a look at the BikesDirect site - their prices are very low and you could buy a complete bike and then sell the drops and shifters on ebay. (Drop bike shifters are worth a fortune.)

I'm sorry. I wasn't talking down. I don't have reason to think you are beneath me in any way.

Unless he is that guy you ran over the other week - you should at least consider moving your bike...

So I finally have a bike being put together. I decided to buy a Trek Portland 2010 and pretty much replace every part on it. The Trek bikes are great because they really have a good fit and size for me and the Portland frame has disc brake mounts. The parts I'm changing to are these:

Ergon GX3 Grips
Bontrager Hbar Race Lite flat handlebars.
Sram Apex Crank 175mm Double
Sram Apex Cassette 11-28 10 speed
Sram Apex Rear Der.
Sram Apex Front Der.
Avid Juicy 3 Brake Front
Avid Juicy 3 Brake Rear
Velocity Fusion Disc Wheel Set with Sapim CX bladed spokes and Olive Anodized color.
Sram Double Tap 10spd

I'm paying $1400 for the Trek Portland in it's original state and it comes with Red Shield Protection. The color is Mocha.
When I have replaced with the new parts the bike is going to be around $2200.
For security I've ordered the Abus Bordo Granit X-Plus http://www.abus.de/us/main.asp?ScreenLang=us&sid=968395411083117261020107617145101&select=0104b11&artikel=4003318450532
and I've also added Zefal Lock and Roll Skewers http://www.zefal.com/zefal/produit.php?key=497001

What do you guys think?

What do you guys think?


It is a shame that the only way you can get the frame you want is to buy a bike and then strip it. Life is like that sometimes though and if it gets you want you want and you can afford it you should do it. I'm not a component geek, I can't really comment on the parts you selected. For me the Portland is a nicely set up bike just as it comes and I would not change anything but of course this exercise isn't about me, it's about you. ;) For one brief moment I was going to ask you what you want for the Portland's handlebars and shifters once you strip them but alas, I need 3x10 and the Portland is 3x9. I am still not entirely convinced that trekking bars are working better for me than drops would. They certainly are working better than flat bars, I guess we disagree about that!

Ken

Yep, that Surly Cross Check should be right up your alley in the 62. Even has room for fat tires and fenders.

Get the black one, and almost all black fenders will look like they came as original equipment.

9 speeds are nice, and there are quite a few options for rear cogs.

I see I was a little late - but also looks like you made a nice choice - and then made it even nicer!

What are you doing with all the take off parts? Or were they all traded to the dealer?

All the parts are traded with the dealer. I get around 60% back on the parts that I take off the bike. It feels like a pretty good deal actually. I'm a little bit concerned about locking the bike somewhere though, since it is more pricey than what I originally was going for and my insurance only cover half of the price of the bike. I've ordered what seams to be a really good look, and I think the Zefal skewers would keep a regular bike thief away, or should I go for some other skewers/locking thingy for the wheels and components?

Just make sure you lock it with quality U-Locks when you leave it unattended......

I'd have gone with a Salsa Vaya.

I have the Schwinn Super Sport DBX that is comparable to the Trek Portland.

Nice find in a commuter bike! I love mine and the ability to mount wide tires and fenders is a plus.

I think these disc brake all arounders are perfect for most people. Also called a country bike.

You'll be happy with your new Trek Portland. Its a versatile bike.