Advocacy & Safety - Salmon Rider Count

How many salmon riders do you typically see in a typical week's time?

I'm curious to see how prevalent it is other places, as this week alone I've encountered at least a dozen. Three of the aforementioned salmon riders almost took me out by appearing unexpectedly from blind spots on my commute.

Go ahead and count the sidewalk salmon as well because they have the ability to be just as dangerous to themselves an others as street salmon.

If you answer is zero, well done!

The poll needs a 0-1 entry. I do see the occasional Salmon, but I can't say that I see one every week.

Speedo

They're a regular feature on the Champlain bridge - I guess a directional arrow in the bike lane (plus it matches the direction of car traffic flow) is beyond comprehension, or they're just too lazy to take the extra minute to take the path under the bridge that brings them to the correct lane. Same with the sidewalk on the bridge - clearly marked for pedestrians only but probably used by more cyclists on a daily basis.

Zero.


(All of the vehicles driving on the wrong side of the road this month have been cars and SUVs.)

Of the few people I see riding bicycles on my commuting route, about 80% are riding on the sidewalk. Of the remaining 20% riding on the road, about half are riding contra-flow, usually where there are bike lanes. Closer to the downtown core and the BSU campus, where there are more bike lanes and a younger demographic, the salmon count and incidences of childish cycling in general increase dramatically. In that area, I would estimate that fewer than 10% operate according to the rules for drivers of vehicles. Despite promises to the contrary, law enforcement turns a blind eye to this. If you want to ride your bicycle like a total jerk-wad, this is the place to be.

Where's the zero option?

I see a salmon every once in a while. Its a rare occurrence here. I did see them more often in Denver, most likely because there's more cyclists in Denver than Golden.

Sit down anywhere near a college campus, and you'll see 11+ salmon in five minutes, in my experience. I don't know why, but college students seem to be the absolute worst offenders on "bad bicycling" behavior. I think it's because many of them are taking up bicycling again for the first time since they were kids, and no one ever taught them how to ride properly in traffic. This is why our local bike advocacy organizations have been cooperating with the universities to try to get some education in place (both for the students and the campus police, etc). As it is, the students definitely heavily contribute to the idea that cyclists are just a bunch of scofflaws. I'm not sure that motorists differentiate between an obviously inexperienced cyclist and someone who knows what they're doing, either, which makes me worry that they're increasing the danger for all of us.

But yeah, on my commute through a college area I see numerous salmon, "swooping" against traffic (sometimes the salmon actually cut through a stream of cars JUST so that they can continue to salmon), idiots flying through clumps of pedestrians, failing to stop for pedestrians in crosswalks, running red lights, sidewalk riding, and so on. It sucks, and I don't really know what the solution is other than to just pay lots of extra attention around there.

It varies so much from week to week that I really can't tell you which might be a typical week.

A few days ago I saw a cyclist going the wrong way down a one-way street, in the center of a lane, run two lights immediately in front of a police car, then hop on the sidewalk to pass a taxi and back into the roadway. When the light turned green, the cops continued on their way back to the station.

No cyclists, but I've seen runners/joggers and one guy in a motorized wheelchair.

No cyclists, but I've seen runners/joggers and one guy in a motorized wheelchair.

Pedestrians are supposed to travel contraflow to traffic.

Here it depends just where I look. The road in front of work is a pretty major route for recreational cyclists. I'd say 80% in kit of some sort, but plenty of Mtn or comfort bikes with guys or gals in t-shirts and the like. I have seen perhaps 5 salmon in 5 years.

North of where I live, 10-15 miles from work as the crow flies I can pick a 3 mile section of road where I will be surprised if the majority of riders are not salmon. I'll see 5 or more on one trip to Lowes.

The poll should be percentage.

It seems like I see salmoning every five blocks or so. It's out of control here.

The typical salmon riders I see are kids. Maybe couple time a year for an adult, pretty rare.

It varies so much from week to week that I really can't tell you which might be a typical week.

Same here. Sometimes a lot, sometimes not many.

The poll would be better if it defined what counted as a salmon rider (does a cyclist on a sidewalk count, for example? How about kids riding on slow neighborhood streets? Certainly, not all salmoning is equal) and it should ask for a percentage of the total number of cyclists seen that are salmons rather than a fixed number. What if you only see a four cyclists a week, but half of them are salmon, or you see 1000 cyclists a week, and 11 are salmon ...

I see them occasionally. Yet another poll that needs to be edited.

i see at least 4 a day

most are inner-city kids or vagrants and all seem to swerve in an unpredictable manner. makes the commute more interesting.

I usually see at least 2-3 a day, sometimes more. I once saw a family of 5 salmons. I yelled at the dad.

I see them a lot in downtown San Diego (where I work). I also see them a lot on Linda Vista Road especially near University of San Diego (aka USD).

The poll would be better if it defined what counted as a salmon rider (does a cyclist on a sidewalk count, for example? How about kids riding on slow neighborhood streets? Certainly, not all salmoning is equal) and it should ask for a percentage of the total number of cyclists seen that are salmons rather than a fixed number. What if you only see a four cyclists a week, but half of them are salmon, or you see 1000 cyclists a week, and 11 are salmon ...

Some of those neighborhood streets aren't wide enough to have two sides....

(mostly due to parking on both sides)

It varies so much from week to week that I really can't tell you which might be a typical week.

A few days ago I saw a cyclist going the wrong way down a one-way street, in the center of a lane, run two lights immediately in front of a police car, then hop on the sidewalk to pass a taxi and back into the roadway. When the light turned green, the cops continued on their way back to the station.

This happens in my tourist ciy as well, it seems the cops get paid whether they work or not. Less paperwork.

I can see 10+ salmon a day and thirty or more sidewalk riders until it gets cold. I would say equally represented as far as income and helmet use.

I see lots of bike and scooter riders doing it every day, but I live in Taiwan where it's a normal part of every day. I even do it on occasion on my scooter for short distances. So maybe my vote is moot.

I see maybe one a week, riding along the shoulder of a six lane highway that I commute on. The shoulder is wide, and I suspect they are only traveling a short distance to get where they are going (where it would be a huge pain in the neck to cross over the highway twice), so I'm not really bothered by it. One actually gave me a sheepish wave and said 'thanks' as I passed.

The small fish (salmon bikes) don't bother me nearly as much as the large ones (wrong-side cars). Around here, if it is a two-lane road pretty much all of the drivers drive on the left side when the roadway curves to their left. After a decade of living here, I still haven't gotten used to it. I anticipate it, but I still think it is weird. The only time these folks think they shouldn't cross the center line is when it would be appropriate to do so in order to avoid buzzing a cyclist.

The past three years have seen a noticeable increase in the number of people using bikes in my city (from a few hundred folks to maybe a thousand). Sadly, they ride like they drive. I dread blind corners on the few bike paths we have since these noobs often ride two abreast on the curves and I would hate to hurt one of them.

I rarely see salmon here in L.A. Possibly because most people that do choose to ride in the street with cars, as opposed to the sidewalk, are scared enough when they first start riding in Los Angeles traffic, to figure it out. The few that don't.. well.. there's probably no hope. I saw two today, but they were in the bike lane, that I was in, but I hadn't seen any in at least a couple months before that... I moved into the lane, which was traffic free at the time, to let them pass

I don't see too many around here in Aurora (about 20 miles ESE of denver), or even in denver for that matter. Usually I'll see one or two a week, but they don't look like the kind of people that go very far on a bike, so its not too troublesome, there's much worse behaviors than this.

North of where I live, 10-15 miles from work as the crow flies I can pick a 3 mile section of road where I will be surprised if the majority of riders are not salmon. I'll see 5 or more on one trip to Lowes.
What city/state, if you don't mind?

It appears they are almost non-existent some places. I would have wagered at least a few would be somewhere like Boston.

I rarely see salmon here in L.A. Possibly because most people that do choose to ride in the street with cars, as opposed to the sidewalk, are scared enough when they first start riding in Los Angeles traffic, to figure it out. The few that don't.. well.. there's probably no hope. I saw two today, but they were in the bike lane, that I was in, but I hadn't seen any in at least a couple months before that... I moved into the lane, which was traffic free at the time, to let them pass
What neighborhoods, if you don't mind my asking? I ride from Anaheim to DTLA and beyond often and see a ton of salmon all over LA, especially East of Downtown. Also, the poll has been edited to include sidewalk salmon, who are arguably placing themselves in double-jeopardy.

I see lots of bike and scooter riders doing it every day, but I live in Taiwan where it's a normal part of every day. I even do it on occasion on my scooter for short distances. So maybe my vote is moot.
Nope, your vote is actually very important. The USA being the melting pot that it is, the lack of understanding that traffic laws are applicable to bicyles probably accounts for a large percentage of non-scofflaw salmon riders in this country. Thanks for contributing.

About 1 out of 10 cyclists I see in my home town are salmoning. Mind you, there are a lot of one way streets here. I saw a group of eight salmoning along a bike lane just yesterday. Eight!

If there's a NYC based poll like this, it should be named
POLL: How many salmon riders do you see in one day?

what is it called when a family on rented bikes takes the whole width of a bike path and is looking at buildings and the lakefront rather than paying attention to fellow path users?

I rarely see any 'true' salmon cyclists, but here are a few fairly common scenarios that may count:

1. Blowing a stop sign on the left side of the road, whilst a car is stopping on the right side.
2. Making a left onto a road, and hovering on the left side of the road until there's a gap on the right side (after which they move right).
3. Keeping left on a pathway
4. Riding on the left side on a sidewalk

The poll needs a 0-1 entry. I do see the occasional Salmon, but I can't say that I see one every week.

Speedo

Just goes to show you how diverse and meaningless sometimes these polls can be. I am also in the Boston Area as is Speedo, and I could easily count 11+ Salmon on a single commute, let alone a week of riding.

And in that regard, I have to get several miles out of my city before I am rural enough not to worry about them, so wanting to know where Speedo rides in the greater Boston burbs that he avoids these types of malcontents. ;)

I rarely see any 'true' salmon cyclists, but here are a few fairly common scenarios that may count:

1. Blowing a stop sign on the left side of the road, whilst a car is stopping on the right side.
2. Making a left onto a road, and hovering on the left side of the road until there's a gap on the right side (after which they move right).
3. Keeping left on a pathway
4. Riding on the left side on a sidewalk

I just lump all those riders who give credence to the Law of Entropy and who give life sized examples of Brownian Motion into the one term: Salmon. ;)

what is it called when a family on rented bikes takes the whole width of a bike path and is looking at buildings and the lakefront rather than paying attention to fellow path users?

Rubbernecking tourists. If you regularly ride on a scenic MUP, you'll enjoy it more if you avoid getting twisted over people using it as a park. If you're really in a hurry and need to push, a road might be a more intelligent option.

It seems like I see salmoning every five blocks or so. It's out of control here.


Yeah. The poll needs 10 or more per hour option.

Yeah. The poll needs 10 or more per hour option.
The comments section helps with that.

Interesting poll. Lately I've been more annoyed at the salmons than the distracted drivers still yakking with their cell phones up to their ears. I live in a hotbed of salmon activity, a Los Angeles suburb with a huge non-English speaking population, mainly immigrants from Mexico and China. The Chinese riders are mostly elderly slowly making their way on the sidewalk. The only time that I've ever seen a rider get hit by a car was an elderly sidewalk salmon going off into an intersection at a crosswalk and someone making a right hit him. Luckily both were going so slowly it was fairly minor...a bent wheel perhaps?

I always yell and gesture that people need to get on the other side of the street but they rarely do. The other day a guy actually did. I told him that he would be safer if he rode "like driving a car"...lol.

In fairness to the salmons there is absolutely no infrastructure or education here to help them be anything but. No marked lanes, sharrows, no outreach, education...you get what I'm saying. It's not New York!

I live in a hotbed of salmon activity, a Los Angeles suburb with a huge non-English speaking population, mainly immigrants from Mexico and China. Weird, the salmon I see 80 miles south of you are mainly young caucasions on cruisers or bmx bikes. Both on the coast and in the inland ag areas, the migrant workers usually ride on the correct side.

I saw one today, a delivery guy with large pizza container in his front basket. It was a busy street and he all of a sudden appeared in front of me (he had just made a turn from Eastward street onto our Southward street, but a large truck blocked him from my view so I didn't see him making the turn). On my left were cars running, on my right were parked cars. I was closer to the parked cars, but I thought a salmon should be let ride further from the main traffic, so I had to move left to risk being hit by cars.

Whenever such encounters happen, it's dangerous when the two people involved are not sure who moves to which side. Any by the way, most salmons I have seen are delivery guys. They all look the same--same type of bikes, same large baskets, same species--salmon ;)

It's common where I live, as is riding on sidewalks. I've yet to observe a problem caused by either practice, however.

I don't recall seeing any, I guess I would notice if there were as it would be fairly difficult to avoid them coming straight at you. What I notice most are the guys that overtake me without enough clearance.

........I see a salmon every once in a while. Its a rare occurrence here. I did see them more often in Denver, most likely because there's more cyclists in Denver than Golden.
Yup, saw 4 of'em around Lakewood the other day in <15miles, 2 of which were motorized.

I only commute about 2 miles per day right now, and this is in DC suburban Maryland where I see few cyclists, so I actually rarely see any salmon cyclists. I do see a lot of cyclists cycling against traffic on the sidewalk though (probably 2 or 3 per week), which pretty much amounts to the same thing.

Typically? Zero wrong-way riders.

In fairness to the salmons there is absolutely no infrastructure or education here to help them be anything but. No marked lanes, sharrows, no outreach, education...you get what I'm saying. It's not New York!

There is outreach/education in Los Angeles now. I was moseying around the 'net at work recently and found that there is a group in the latino community trying to get people riding legally.

In fairness to the salmons there is absolutely no infrastructure or education here to help them be anything but. No marked lanes, sharrows, no outreach, education...you get what I'm saying. It's not New York!

In the 1970s when I first started riding to work in England, there were none of these things either. But at no point did I ever think that riding against traffic was anything other than a suicidal idea. The road and the highway code was all the infrastructure and education I needed. The same is available here in the US - even in Los Angeles.

From another salmon-ish thread:

I saw her grandfathers yesterday.

http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh187/10wheels/Real%20Biker3%20flats/RealBikerBob031.jpg

It depends strongly on the street. On major streets I see few salmon, but on one-way side streets, it's close to 50% of cyclists (my own street is one of these).

I should point out, however, that during a typical week I see over a thousand cyclists, and there are lots more cyclists on major streets than side streets, so I would peg it at about 5%. I see few salmon on two-way streets, but the ones I see are usually itching to get to the right side of the road.