Fifty Plus (50+) - Harrowing Experience - Update On Palpitations

My ablation was paid for by my insurance company (GEHA). Occassionally people have trouble getting coverage with their insurance companies depending on exactly what type of ablation is being performed and their past history. You will need to talk to your insurance company to see if they consider your proposed treatment experimental or approved. FYI, my PVI ablation cost about $50K "retail" which the insurance company got for about $25K under their prenegotiated rates.

My ablation was paid for by my insurance company (GEHA). Occassionally people have trouble getting coverage with their insurance companies depending on exactly what type of ablation is being performed and their past history. You will need to talk to your insurance company to see if they consider your proposed treatment experimental or approved. FYI, my PVI ablation cost about $50K "retail" which the insurance company got for about $25K under their prenegotiated rates.

I am curious as to your and others situation prior to choosing abalation. Where you having constant or frequent (how frequent) symtoms when the decision was made. I would think anyone with infrequent episodes would probably not go that route, but that is what I am trying to determine.

My ablation was paid for by my insurance company (GEHA). Occassionally people have trouble getting coverage with their insurance companies depending on exactly what type of ablation is being performed and their past history. You will need to talk to your insurance company to see if they consider your proposed treatment experimental or approved. FYI, my PVI ablation cost about $50K "retail" which the insurance company got for about $25K under their prenegotiated rates.

My insurance company HMO is "networked" - but it is a medicare wraparound. That means that I can always use the medicare portion of it, at least. I will check further.

I talked with the Cleveland Clinic today, and they accept Medicare. It is difficult to get them to give me an estimate of my out-of-pocket cost, but I will try again later. Perhaps I wil get someone more knowledgeable.

I also talked with Dr. Natale's office, and they have suggested I have my cardio and my PCP forward my med records. I see my cardio tomorrow and will discuss with him.



I am curious as to your and others situation prior to choosing abalation. Where you having constant or frequent (how frequent) symtoms when the decision was made. I would think anyone with infrequent episodes would probably not go that route, but that is what I am trying to determine.

I am in continuous AFib - that mean I do not go in and out of AFib - I just stay there. No meds have been able to control it, nor have any electric cardioversions.

The good thing is I don't have to suffer going in and out, which causes dizziness and trips to the ER for folks with paroxysmal (sp) (in and out) AFib. They get quite scared.

It does mean that I am constantly producing only about 2/3rd's of my cardiac output, which reduces my endurance and power noticeably. It also means that my heart rate is controlled by meds, although my heart does beat faster when I exercise, and I must take warfarin (rat poison) to prevent coagulation in the Atria and subsequent strokes.

All-in-all, it isn't a lot of fun!

The ablation can cure it permanently, if all goes well.

I am in continuous AFib - that mean I do not go in and out of AFib - I just stay there. No meds have been able to control it, nor have any electric cardioversions.

The good thing is I don't have to suffer going in and out, which causes dizziness and trips to the ER for folks with paroxysmal (sp) (in and out) AFib. They get quite scared.

It does mean that I am constantly producing only about 2/3rd's of my cardiac output, which reduces my endurance and power noticeably. It also means that my heart rate is controlled by meds, although my heart does beat faster when I exercise, and I must take warfarin (rat poison) to prevent coagulation in the Atria and subsequent strokes.

All-in-all, it isn't a lot of fun!

The ablation can cure it permanently, if all goes well.

I guess one thing I am not clear about is that you (I believe) indicate that the medication controls your heart rate, hence while controlled, is it still considered being in AFib? What is it controlled to?

I ask all of these questions hoping that my solo episode will remain a solo episode, but then again I am well aware of the non existence of Santa Claus.

Keep us in the loop as you progress through the system. BTW, I also assume from your post that electrical cardioversion is the first step in a try for a permanent cure. I wonder what percentage beat it at that stage?

I guess one thing I am not clear about is that you (I believe) indicate that the medication controls your heart rate, hence while controlled, is it still considered being in AFib? What is it controlled to?

I ask all of these questions hoping that my solo episode will remain a solo episode, but then again I am well aware of the non existence of Santa Claus.

Keep us in the loop as you progress through the system. BTW, I also assume from your post that electrical cardioversion is the first step in a try for a permanent cure. I wonder what percentage beat it at that stage?

Sorry, I see the confusion now.

It is the atrial (top and smaller) chambers that are in continuous fibrillation, even as I type.

The ventricles (lower and harder working chambers) take their cue from the atrial contractions. So, if my atrium is fibrillating at 300-400 times per minute, the ventricles attempt to do the same thing, but not all of the verntricular signals get through. So,

1. My artria are always in fibrillation.

2. My ventricles were ticking along about 158-160 BPM (resting - and that is a dangerous continuous rate) before the meds (digoxin and beta blockers), and the meds keep it as slow as I and the doc want, depending on the dosage. I no longer take digoxin, as my HR was too slow. Right now I keep the ventricles at about 65-72 BPM with the beta blocker. The rate increases some as I exercise.

3. The reduction in heart output comes from the fact that the atria are not pumping blood into the ventricles, giving less volume.

4. The fact that the atria are not pumping, but are instead in fibrillation, leads to the possibility (5% chance) that the blood will pool in the atria and coagulate and then be sent to the brain, causing a stroke. That is why I take a blood thinner to stop any coagulation.

Sorry I did not explain it more clearly earlier. There are a lot of good web site. Check out the Heart section of ClevelandClinic.org and they have a whole manual on AFib which can be downloaded.

And, I will keep posting, despite the naysayers!

I started out having afib episodes about once a week for a few hours at a time. Within a couple months, I was having them about every three days and they would last 6-24 hours. In retrospect, I'm sure I had some afib episodes before Bike Florida, but I just didn't recognize them as such.

Afib can be caused by many factors, e.g., too much alcohol, drug reactions, inadequate diet, which can cause a single episode. Generally, if you have several episodes, without a clear reason for them occurring, then you are likely to have more, increasing in frequency and duration as you age (but, not as quickly as mine progressed).

The decision as to when to have maze surgery or an ablation to cure afib depends on several medical factors that have to be evaluated. In the end, I would say you are ready for a cure when your quality of life is decreased enough that you don't want to live with afib any longer. There is up to a 1 or 2% risk that something may go wrong during the procedures to eliminate the afib. The consequences can range from minor annoyances to serious medical problems(e.g., a stroke or severe pulmonary stenosis). At the best centers that treat afib, the risks are less than 1%. Living with afib and taking drugs to control it also has risks. Only you can decide which risk to take. I chose the risk of being cured.

I started out having afib episodes about once a week for a few hours at a time.

And mine just started one day and never stopped!

Sorry, I see the confusion now.

It is the atrial (top and smaller) chambers that are in continuous fibrillation, even as I type.

The ventricles (lower and harder working chambers) take their cue from the atrial contractions. So, if my atrium is fibrillating at 300-400 times per minute, the ventricles attempt to do the same thing, but not all of the verntricular signals get through. So,

1. My artria are always in fibrillation.

2. My ventricles were ticking along about 158-160 BPM (resting - and that is a dangerous continuous rate) before the meds (digoxin and beta blockers), and the meds keep it as slow as I and the doc want, depending on the dosage. I no longer take digoxin, as my HR was too slow. Right now I keep the ventricles at about 65-72 BPM with the beta blocker. The rate increases some as I exercise.

3. The reduction in heart output comes from the fact that the atria are not pumping blood into the ventricles, giving less volume.

4. The fact that the atria are not pumping, but are instead in fibrillation, leads to the possibility (5% chance) that the blood will pool in the atria and coagulate and then be sent to the brain, causing a stroke. That is why I take a blood thinner to stop any coagulation.

Sorry I did not explain it more clearly earlier. There are a lot of good web site. Check out the Heart section of ClevelandClinic.org and they have a whole manual on AFib which can be downloaded.

And, I will keep posting, despite the naysayers!

Thank you for taking the time to explain - quite fascinating (and scary).

Thank you for taking the time to explain - quite fascinating (and scary).

To say the least!

I am likely to go the ablation route.

When I had Trigeminal Neuralgia (http://www.tna-support.org/newlook/definition.htm) (terrible, terrible facial pain - "universally considered to be the most painful affliction known to medical practice") a lot of folks (scared of surgery) opted to take powerful meds the rest of their lives to control (sort of) the pain. They said that meds were "less intrusive." I opted for brain surgery because I felt that a one-time surgery was much less intrusive than filling my cells with dope the rest of my life, and offered a greater chance of cure.

I think I will follow the same reasoning here, but still don't have all the facts.

Best wishes. I am sure that you will make the best possible decision and will soon be healthy again.

To say the least!

I am likely to go the ablation route.

When I had Trigeminal Neuralgia (http://www.tna-support.org/newlook/definition.htm) (terrible, terrible facial pain - "universally considered to be the most painful affliction known to medical practice") a lot of folks (scared of surgery) opted to take powerful meds the rest of their lives to control (sort of) the pain. They said that meds were "less intrusive." I opted for brain surgery because I felt that a one-time surgery was much less intrusive than filling my cells with dope the rest of my life, and offered a greater chance of cure.

I think I will follow the same reasoning here, but still don't have all the facts.

I would have done the same as you!

Well, tonight I once again will try to sleep with 22 wires attached to me, a mask over my face attached by elastic around my head and two tight straps around my chest and waist.

Wish me luck!

Update: slept about 4 hours, enough for them to get the data they needed. Left a 4am, went to the Waffle House for breakfast.

Dnvr.Fox, I wish that I had more time to send you a longer message, but may I say that you and your family are in my prayers, and just hang in there. I hope the best for you, and keep on riding. Those are some beutiful photos from Colorado. Chicharron.

Well, tonight I once again will try to sleep with 22 wires attached to me, a mask over my face attached by elastic around my head and two tight straps around my chest and waist.

Wish me luck!

Update: slept about 4 hours, enough for them to get the data they needed. Left a 4am, went to the Waffle House for breakfast.

That's an incredible ordeal, but hopefully the light at the end of the tunnel will make it all worth it.

Just got back from sleep doc.

My Oxygen is so low at night (84%) - due to sleep Apnea and the chest pressure of being somewhat overweight, that he is ordering oxygen during the night in addition to the CPAP machine, which I also got today.

WOW, what a change of lifestyle.

He thinks that if I lose about 10-15 more pounds, the SA may well go away, and there is the possibility of a reversal of the AFib and lowering of SA-associated hypertesion.

I have already lost about 15 pounds last couple of months. I have asked to see a nutritionist for further assistance.

Saw an Electro-Physiologist yesterday who explained the different types of ablations available, but also stated that treatment or removal of sleep apnea may reverse heart Atrial Fibrillation.

I am going to delay any ablation procedures for about 5 months to see what the effect of the CPAP, O2 and weight loss have on the AFib.

Good luck, Fox - hope this is the one that does it for you.

Although, I don't understand the relation between SA and afib. Isn't SA just not getting a good breath of O2 because your airway is blocked?

Good luck, Fox - hope this is the one that does it for you.

Although, I don't understand the relation between SA and afib. Isn't SA just not getting a good breath of O2 because your airway is blocked?

It is more than that - it is actually stopping breathing for up to a minute.

The negative effects is that your heart must work much harder to keep your cells oxygenated, which over many years essentially puts a great deal of strain on your heart and also ups your blood pressure, which causes the damage which causes AFib, as I understand it. Your BP is supposed to drop 10 points at night. Mine doesn't - my highest BP during the day is just after I awaken.

I think this is an area in which more research will be helpful. The correlation between SA and AFib was only found about 5 months ago. This is new stuff.

Thanks for the explanation. My wife (who works in medicine) claims that I have SA mostly because I can snore heavily if I sleep on my back. My BP is okay - get some premature beats from time to time over the last several years. So -- the treatment is a device that keeps your airway open by not permitting you to lie on your back? Or is there more to it than that?

Keep us posted - this is interesting. And of course, good luck.

Thanks for the explanation. My wife (who works in medicine) claims that I have SA mostly because I can snore heavily if I sleep on my back. My BP is okay - get some premature beats from time to time over the last several years. So -- the treatment is a device that keeps your airway open by not permitting you to lie on your back? Or is there more to it than that?

Keep us posted - this is interesting. And of course, good luck.

NOPE!

Lying on your back is what you are supposed to do. Lying on your tummy is bad.

The CPAP machine is a positive pressure device - sort of like an old-fashioned tube type vacuum cleaner with air blowing out the non-vacuum end, but much more refined, blowing into a mask that keeps your airway poen.

It is the "snoring and stopping" then snoring and stopping that is an indicator of SA. It amy or may not cause increased blood pressure. During the stopping, you are getting no air.

Other typical symptoms (but not mine) are extreme sleepiness and falling asleep during the day.

http://www.sleepapnea.org/geninfo.html#defined



The Greek word "apnea" literally means "without breath." There are three types of apnea: obstructive, central, and mixed; of the three, obstructive is the most common. Despite the difference in the root cause of each type, in all three, people with untreated sleep apnea stop breathing repeatedly during their sleep, sometimes hundreds of times during the night and often for a minute or longer.

Obstructive sleep apnea (OSA) is caused by a blockage of the airway, usually when the soft tissue in the rear of the throat collapses and closes during sleep. In central sleep apnea, the airway is not blocked but the brain fails to signal the muscles to breathe. Mixed apnea, as the name implies, is a combination of the two. With each apnea event, the brain briefly arouses people with sleep apnea in order for them to resume breathing, but consequently sleep is extremely fragmented and of poor quality.

Sleep apnea is very common, as common as adult diabetes, and affects more than twelve million Americans, according to the National Institutes of Health. Risk factors include being male, overweight, and over the age of forty, but sleep apnea can strike anyone at any age, even children. Yet still because of the lack of awareness by the public and healthcare professionals, the vast majority remain undiagnosed and therefore untreated, despite the fact that this serious disorder can have significant consequences.

Untreated, sleep apnea can cause high blood pressure and other cardiovascular disease, memory problems, weight gain, impotency, and headaches. Moreover, untreated sleep apnea may be responsible for job impairment and motor vehicle crashes. Fortunately, sleep apnea can be diagnosed and treated. Several treatment options exist, and research into additional options continues.

Well, I just joined this club.

I have not really looked at the 50+ threads, as I have been busy arguing with folks on the Commuter thread about Vehicular Cycling, and I am 48.

This has been good reading so far.

My entrance into the AF club was quite a surprise as some of you have also expressed... I have been a biker and swimmer since high school, the last thing I expected were heart/lung problems.

I was just leaving the office the other night and my heart suddenly felt as if it was trying to jump out of my chest... (no pain, just big thumps) I could not get a good pulse... felt as if I was sending Morse code (sounded like it too later on a heart monitor). I went home and was about to eat dinner, but complained to my wife that I just did not feel right. She took me to ER right away. (insisted, actually). Was the fastest I ever saw a Doc in my life... I was on a table and hooked up to EKG before she could park the car. Glad I left Kaiser some 15 years ago... Jeeze those clowns sound downright scary. I am with Sharp San Diego.

I was all over the place on the EKG... from 120 to as high as 172. My BP was way low... down to 80/60 and that was a huge issue as I was quite dizzy from time to time. My normal resting heart rate is usually around 50 or so, but if I am very relaxed I get down to low 40s. This was cause for concern when I left the Navy in the '80s; they had a hard time believing that low pulse... at the time I was cycling 20 miles a day and swimming 1/2 mile a day. I hate running though.

I was in AF for about 12 hours... this was my first time as far as I know. I auto de-fibbed in the morning just as they were getting ready to hook me up to a recording EKG. The technician was quite disappointed, said it would have been real cool to record the event.

Sonogram of the heart was very good (years of exercise pay off I suppose).

Saw a Cardio Doc that day and am now on some drugs to lower my heart rate and of course the Coumadin (Warfarin) to prevent clots and strokes.

Reading this thread is something of a relief as my first thoughts were "crap, this changes everything." While indeed there will be changes... obviously many of you are just as active as before... if not simply more cautious and obviously more aware.

How some of you can be in Fib for days or even years is amazing... It would certainly slow me down. Especially that annoying thumping of the heart... it is if it was beat beat pause thump beat pause beat thump pause... very irregular.

At any rate... I am going to take the drugs, go to monitoring and keep riding...

Of course no more alcohol, but they told me not to change my diet... which is quite rich in veggies.

I'll keep watching here to see how we all do and what others do. Comments on the various surgeries are quite interesting, but since this was my first episode, I have to wait and see what is really going on.

Take care.

How some of you can be in Fib for days or even years is amazing... It would certainly slow me down. Especially that annoying thumping of the heart... it is if it was beat beat pause thump beat pause beat thump pause... very irregular.

That sort of fades away if you are permanently in AFib and on something like metropolol. I do not notice my AFib at all right now,

Was the fastest I ever saw a Doc in my life... I was on a table and hooked up to EKG before she could park the car. Glad I left Kaiser some 15 years ago... Jeeze those clowns sound downright scary. I am with Sharp San Diego.


Amen, brother

Well, I just joined this club.

I have not really looked at the 50+ threads, as I have been busy arguing with folks on the Commuter thread about Vehicular Cycling, and I am 48.

This has been good reading so far.

My entrance into the AF club was quite a surprise as some of you have also expressed... I have been a biker and swimmer since high school, the last thing I expected were heart/lung problems.

I was just leaving the office the other night and my heart suddenly felt as if it was trying to jump out of my chest... (no pain, just big thumps) I could not get a good pulse... felt as if I was sending Morse code (sounded like it too later on a heart monitor). I went home and was about to eat dinner, but complained to my wife that I just did not feel right. She took me to ER right away. (insisted, actually). Was the fastest I ever saw a Doc in my life... I was on a table and hooked up to EKG before she could park the car. Glad I left Kaiser some 15 years ago... Jeeze those clowns sound downright scary. I am with Sharp San Diego.

I was all over the place on the EKG... from 120 to as high as 172. My BP was way low... down to 80/60 and that was a huge issue as I was quite dizzy from time to time. My normal resting heart rate is usually around 50 or so, but if I am very relaxed I get down to low 40s. This was cause for concern when I left the Navy in the '80s; they had a hard time believing that low pulse... at the time I was cycling 20 miles a day and swimming 1/2 mile a day. I hate running though.

I was in AF for about 12 hours... this was my first time as far as I know. I auto de-fibbed in the morning just as they were getting ready to hook me up to a recording EKG. The technician was quite disappointed, said it would have been real cool to record the event.

Sonogram of the heart was very good (years of exercise pay off I suppose).

Saw a Cardio Doc that day and am now on some drugs to lower my heart rate and of course the Coumadin (Warfarin) to prevent clots and strokes.

Reading this thread is something of a relief as my first thoughts were "crap, this changes everything." While indeed there will be changes... obviously many of you are just as active as before... if not simply more cautious and obviously more aware.

How some of you can be in Fib for days or even years is amazing... It would certainly slow me down. Especially that annoying thumping of the heart... it is if it was beat beat pause thump beat pause beat thump pause... very irregular.

At any rate... I am going to take the drugs, go to monitoring and keep riding...

Of course no more alcohol, but they told me not to change my diet... which is quite rich in veggies.

I'll keep watching here to see how we all do and what others do. Comments on the various surgeries are quite interesting, but since this was my first episode, I have to wait and see what is really going on.

Take care.

In that you went out of AF without drugs, I am curious as to why your cardiologist put you on drugs with only one event. I had an event about three weeks ago, but went back to normal in a couple of hours. I have my fingers crossed in that I am not anxious to take drugs.

In that you went out of AF without drugs, I am curious as to why your cardiologist put you on drugs with only one event. I had an event about three weeks ago, but went back to normal in a couple of hours. I have my fingers crossed in that I am not anxious to take drugs.

From my listserv on AFib - the worst scenario seems to be for those folks who pop back in and out of AFib (paroxysmal). Those folks in NSR (normal sinus rhythm) dread when they go into AFib and will do practically anything to avoid it, including all sorts of special diets, etc. They get dizzy, strange feelings, shortness of breath, etc.

Those of us permanently in AFib seem to be better off - the meds keep the heart rate down, and I do not even notice the AFib any more. And, today, riding my HEAVY (rack, panniers, loaded) mtn bike, I did pretty good kicking along at 18-20 mph, with no shortness of breath or anything like that. Even passed a roadie or two.

[QUOTE=DnvrFox]From my listserv on AFib - the worst scenario seems to be for those folks who pop back in and out of AFib (paroxysmal). Those folks in NSR (normal sinus rhythm) dread when they go into AFib and will do practically anything to avoid it, including all sorts of special diets, etc. They get dizzy, strange feelings, shortness of breath, etc.
QUOTE]

Good point. I know that it was not a fun experience as a guy with a resting heart beat of 44 to suddenly be 100 beats above that exacerbated by an irregular rhythm. I must admit I am not excited about the feeling of wondering and waiting to see if and/or when I might suffer another episode.

[QUOTE=DnvrFox]From my listserv on AFib - the worst scenario seems to be for those folks who pop back in and out of AFib (paroxysmal). Those folks in NSR (normal sinus rhythm) dread when they go into AFib and will do practically anything to avoid it, including all sorts of special diets, etc. They get dizzy, strange feelings, shortness of breath, etc.
QUOTE]

Good point. I know that it was not a fun experience as a guy with a resting heart beat of 44 to suddenly be 100 beats above that exacerbated by an irregular rhythm. I must admit I am not excited about the feeling of wondering and waiting to see if and/or when I might suffer another episode.

The chances are pretty good you will go into AFib. You might consider some of the factors which might help to stay out of AFib:

1. No caffeine of any kind - that means chocolate, even decaf coffee which contains some caffeine. Also, epinephrine type cold remedies and similar.

2. Is there ANY possibility of sleep apnea? I had NONE of the typical symptoms, except my cardiologist picked up on two things a) The echocardiogram showed mild pulmonary hypertension; and b) the veins at the side of my neck are raised more than normal. Also, the very fact of my having AFib correlated strongly with SA.

3. Hypertension is likely the number one factor for AFib.

4. Size - the bigger the heart, the more chance of AFib. All whales have AFib, no mice do. Overweight is not good, so while you can't reduce your body size or your heart size, you can lose weight.

5. Some folks on the AFib list drink or no dairy products????

6. You might consider some of the drugs which DO tend to keep you out of AFib.

7. Once you have had an AFib episode, it is likely you will have more.

8. Stress - a MAJOR factor in AFib. I have had so much stress over the years, that I am surprised I am still alive! Last year I simply walked out the door of a pretty good job and never returned - the stress was intolerable. But, it had already damaged my body.

Just some good (?) thoughts for you!

Fox:

Thanks for the great list of information. The emergency room sent me home with an informational packet that did mention some of what you said - particularly in regards to avoiding caffeine (chocolate) and alcohol.

The day of my AFib, I was undergoing a particularly stressful day. The year before, I also lost my job when my company went out of business. That had happened to me once before when I lost a 25 year career as an Eastern Airlines pilot when the company went bankrupt in 1991.

I do take drugs for hypertension, but control it nicely. I am 5' 11", 155 pounds with a 30 inch waist. I am in great shape, but as you say, AFib often strikes athletes.

I know in my heart (no pun intended) that one episode enhances your odds tremendously for further episodes, but maybe Santa does exist.

It is great to have a forum where these things can be discussed.

Not sure about the apnea, BTW, I have no evidence of it, but of course that means nothing.

It is great to have a forum where these things can be discussed.

Sadly, not all agree with you. I guess we are supposed to be "superhuman" bicyclists our whole life with no physical problems! Don't we wish!

I am not a happy camper this am.

So far, the diagnosis and treatment for my "Sleep Apnea" has resulted in 5 nights with little or no sleep. Going to call the doc this am and loudly complain. Something has to change. Been up since 3:30 am.

Seems to me like I am going backwards here.

On the positive side, my blood pressure is doing great - why?

Sadly, not all agree with you. I guess we are supposed to be "superhuman" bicyclists our whole life with no physical problems! Don't we wish!

I am not a happy camper this am.

So far, the diagnosis and treatment for my "Sleep Apnea" has resulted in 5 nights with little or no sleep. Going to call the doc this am and loudly complain. Something has to change. Been up since 3:30 am.

Seems to me like I am going backwards here.

On the positive side, my blood pressure is doing great - why?

You did seem up a bit early. There is nothing worse than sleep deprivation - I simply don't function well with little sleep. I just love hammering with the young cycle studs, but we old farts need our rest to do so!

You would think your BP would be negatively impacted by the lack of sleep and hence the cortisol released into your system from stress, etc.

BTW, high BP was the most difficult thing for me to accept. I was an ex national running champion, and an airline pilot who took 4 physical exams a year. Physicians would often comment on my extraordinarily low BP. One day during a physical, the nurse said that my BP was elevated. I knew it was a momentary fluke, and when I finally saw the doctor, I asked him to personally take it. It was elevated, and there started the adventure into high BP land.

BTW, is the sleeplessness due to wearing apnea defeating devices?

In that you went out of AF without drugs, I am curious as to why your cardiologist put you on drugs with only one event. I had an event about three weeks ago, but went back to normal in a couple of hours. I have my fingers crossed in that I am not anxious to take drugs.

I will be reviewing that very issue with the Docs in a week or so... I was not entirely with out drugs when I went back into sinus, they had been injecting my IV with drugs to slow my heart rate for a couple hours, then elected to watch the results.

They were on the verge of shocking me when I converted.

I will be reviewing that very issue with the Docs in a week or so... I was not entirely with out drugs when I went back into sinus, they had been injecting my IV with drugs to slow my heart rate for a couple hours, then elected to watch the results.

They were on the verge of shocking me when I converted.

Keep us in the loop. I had an IV attached in the ER, but went back to normal before they shot me up with drugs.

If anyone will give me your emails by PM, or DnvrFox@aol.com, I will send you a current and lengthy article on AFib, which is too long for private forum mail. I already sent one to Skydive69 email.

Thanks Fox - very informative (albeit scary) article. It seemed so uncomplicated until I read that article.

Thanks Fox - very informative (albeit scary) article. It seemed so uncomplicated until I read that article.

I just sent you an informed and comforting response.

I just sent you an informed and comforting response.

Yes it was on both accounts! One question. You allude to a prolonged period of undiagnosed AFib. Does it sometimes manifest itself in such a way that it is not completely obvious as was my one experience?

Yes it was on both accounts! One question. You allude to a prolonged period of undiagnosed AFib. Does it sometimes manifest itself in such a way that it is not completely obvious as was my one experience?

Well, I allude to nothing as I didn't write the article!

But, yes, it is my understanding that it may manifest itself in different ways. However, I don't REALLY know, as mine manifests itself all the time. One of the docs I worked with mentioned "silent AFib" to me.

Well, I allude to nothing as I didn't write the article!

But, yes, it is my understanding that it may manifest itself in different ways. However, I don't REALLY know, as mine manifests itself all the time. One of the docs I worked with mentioned "silent AFib" to me.

True, but it is difficult for me to conceive of non diagnosed AFib based on my experience, but then again if there is truly silent AFib, I guess it is possible.

Slept all night with the CPAP!! Never thought I would do it. Went to sleep in my easy chair with the CPAP on, slept several hours - which I don't usually do in my easy chair - that in itself is interesting - then moved me and the CPAP to the bed and slept some more. Was it perfect? No. Was it adequate - yes. Just the confidence that I CAN do it is a tremendous step forward!

Now we are awaiting the ins co authorization for the oxygen concentrator rental, and we can really see if, just perhaps, this treatment, along with losing weight and lower blood pressure (by the way, the BP is WAY down the last week or so) might reverse the AFib.

Certainly worth a shot, and besides, has lots of other positive effects on the body.

Slept all night with the CPAP!! Never thought I would do it. Went to sleep in my easy chair with the CPAP on, slept several hours - which I don't usually do in my easy chair - that in itself is interesting - then moved me and the CPAP to the bed and slept some more. Was it perfect? No. Was it adequate - yes. Just the confidence that I CAN do it is a tremendous step forward!

Now we are awaiting the ins co authorization for the oxygen concentrator rental, and we can really see if, just perhaps, this treatment, along with losing weight and lower blood pressure (by the way, the BP is WAY down the last week or so) might reverse the AFib.

Certainly worth a shot, and besides, has lots of other positive effects on the body.

Super!

yes, that's great!

Journeyed to Colorado Springs today to visit with Christopher Cole, MD, trained at the Cleveland Clinic (CC), who is doing the trials for the new technique of cryogenic ablation, along with a couple of other sites in the USA.

After usual EKG, filling out reams of medical history, etc., and meeting with the aide and the NP, we got to talk.

Some thoughts:

1. The success rate for the first cryogenic trial (done less than 6 months) ago is 50%.

2. We discussed about the two techniques - the one similar to a MAZE procedure and the PVI, which is used at CC. He stated that he is moving more towards the modified MAZE, along with the guy at Michigan (morardi or something like that), but the CC is still using the PVI. The EP that I consulted here in Denver believes that the modified MAZE is the procedure of the future.

3. Dr. Cole worked with and was trained directly by Natale.

4. Dr. Cole stated that the success rate on first ablation at CC was 70-80%, and higher for those that failed the first but had a 2nd.

Okay - I am going to get my name on the wait list for CC, but in the interim, I am going to see if the treatment for sleep apnea in itself reverses the AFib. Dr. Cole felt there was a possibility that this could happen, especially if helped with a cardioversion.

Right now, I am going to get on with my life!

Thanks

Thanks for the update Fox!

Sleep w/o a doubt helps relieve this. I've had it most of my life to varying degrees, sometimes bad enough that i feel i may pass out. Been a while since thats happened tho. In any case, sleep seems to make a huge difference for me.

but i wanted to mention something that may help. About 6-7 years ago i had been going thru this 24/7 for months and it was getting intolerable to concentaret on living. i began taking 400 units a day of vitamin E. I kid you not, it stopped completely ! The unfortunate part for me is that for whatever reason after about 3 or 4 years the E stopped working and the problems re-ocurred. they haven't been as bad since tho. But it may be worth a shot for anyone with these types of problems. I hear 400 is a bit much, but i don't think it caused me any problems. The 200 unit caps may be a better choice to be safe, tho whether that would be enough i don't know. Anyway, just thought i'd chime in and maybe help someone with this advice.

Sleep w/o a doubt helps relieve this. I've had it most of my life to varying degrees, sometimes bad enough that i feel i may pass out. Been a while since thats happened tho. In any case, sleep seems to make a huge difference for me.

but i wanted to mention something that may help. About 6-7 years ago i had been going thru this 24/7 for months and it was getting intolerable to concentaret on living. i began taking 400 units a day of vitamin E. I kid you not, it stopped completely ! The unfortunate part for me is that for whatever reason after about 3 or 4 years the E stopped working and the problems re-ocurred. they haven't been as bad since tho. But it may be worth a shot for anyone with these types of problems. I hear 400 is a bit much, but i don't think it caused me any problems. The 200 unit caps may be a better choice to be safe, tho whether that would be enough i don't know. Anyway, just thought i'd chime in and maybe help someone with this advice.

It may or may not work, but I have been taking 400 units of E daily for at least 30 years, and I sufferred my first (and with great luck, my last) event of AFib about 5 weeks ago.

hello
i will be going in on manday to have an av ablation to correct tachycardia. last week on a 90 minute bike ride my heart rate was over 200 4 times and as high as 225. at my age that is way to high. i already have the pacemaker so the ablation is all that is required monday. benifits are not the tired feeling all the time, can get off the beta blockers and get back to somewhat nsr. the atriun will still be in a-fib but the signals will not reach the lower chambers. will advise results next week.
thanks

hello
i will be going in on Monday to have an av ablation to correct tachycardia. last week on a 90 minute bike ride my heart rate was over 200 4 times and as high as 225. at my age that is way to high. i already have the pacemaker so the ablation is all that is required monday. benifits are not the tired feeling all the time, can get off the beta blockers and get back to somewhat nsr. the atriun will still be in a-fib but the signals will not reach the lower chambers. will advise results next week.
thanks

Good luck, hope all goes well. We will be thinking about you.

I am in contact both with the Cleveland Clinic and with Marin County General Hospital in San Francisco. Dr. Natale (The world's expert in Atrial Fibrillation ablations) does the PVI ablation procedure in both locations and is the consulting Medical Director for the EP lab at the Marin County General Hospital.

The soonest I can get in for the procedure in Cleveland is about December, 2005. I can get in to see Dr. Natale in SF in August. I would much prefer SF to Cleveland, as my faimly is in CA. The procedure takes just one night in the hospital and one night in a nearby close Hotel.

So, that is our current plan.

I just stumbled upon this thread as I am a newbie on the 50+ forum. Read every post and found it quite compelling. Keep up the detailed reporting DnvrFox the chronicle you have provided and the discussion it provokes may indeed help others. Plus it must act as some form of therapy for you to vent and express and I would guess this is one reason you have kept it up.

I found your post about your first night in the sleep testing centre both hilarious (I am sure it wasn't at the time but you describe it really well) and saddening, especially to hear about all the hardship you and your wife have had to endure with health related issues in your family. Who said life was fair? But is has to go on and we have to make the best of it and can overcome almost anything with a good attitude. My mother suffered with one of the most advanced cases of MS for 25 years until her death at age 59. My father took care of her at home (while working) so I know 1st hand what illness in the family is like. In fact never a day goes by that I don't stop and reflect how lucky I am not to have these issues to deal with in my life (at least for now). All the other problems of life seem trivial when compared to illness.

I had a weird tachycardia event about 2 years ago which people who follow this thread may find interesting.

I was alone in the house around supper time, and had eaten a pita bread sandwich too fast. I was also in a reclining position on my side on the bed watching TV in our bedroom. You know that feeling of a knot in your sternum when you eat something too fast? Usually takes a minute or 2 to pass but is very uncomfortable.

Well that is what happened to me that evening, but the feeling did not pass. What did happen though within about 4 minutes of eating was a heartbeat from hell. Out of nowhere my heart started to race a million miles an hour, at a much higher rate than at my peak performance i.e. busting a lung up a mountain.

I tried to relax and calm down, but it didn't change. Then I started to get worried and looked around to see where the phone was in case I had to call 911. It was not near the bed, I had to get up to get the cordless and bring it near my side. Still didn't get any better and was about to call for an ambulance.

I started to feel light headed, like you do when you stand up too quickly. I did a dumb thing and went to the bathroom in our bedroom to get a glass of water to try to wash down what I had eaten, it wasn't really stuck it was just there.

One second I am standing in the bathroom (it's a small one, no shower or tub), next thing I am face down spread eagled on the floor. Miracle I didn't crack my skull on the toilet bowl. I knew that I came to almost as soon as I hit the floor, but that was the first (and only time I hope) that I had ever fainted. Still had the crazy heart rate (it was a good 15 minutes at this point) and managed to get back to the bed with the phone in my hand ready to call for help.

Then just as quickly as my heart rate shot up, it returned to normal. It was a moment of relief but immediately a type of panic set in. While it was happening I was so focused on surviving, that I did not worry, I was only thinking of what I needed to do so that I didn't croak then and there. Going to the bathroom while dizzy like that was in hindsight really stupid.

Once I was stabilized HR wise I wanted to go the ER to get checked out in case I was having an MI or something. I thought of driving myself, didn't want to have the whole production of an ambulance when I was feeling ok and at that moment my son arrived. He took me to the ER and I made him go home, why wait hours on end and I was feeling fine by then, just worried.

They treated me ok in ER, saw a triage nurse (1st line) who took my statement then my BP (it was surprising low she said even though it was 140/95) given the circumstances and she said they would do an ekg just in case. I was freaking out that I wasn't being seen quickly enough and that they were not taking blood for "enzymes" etc. The ekg was done within 10 minutes of the triage and it showed normal and then I waited a few hours to see the on call doc who after examining me said that he had heard of (but never seen) a tachycardia (abnormal very rapid heart rate) triggered by pressure to the chest. In essence whatever I had scoffed down had stuck in my esophagus and the funny angle I was reclining at was enough to trigger this type of pressure reaction.
The fainting was due to low blood pressure cause by the tachycardia.

I went the next day to my family doctor and a few months later was checked out by a cardiologist and given a clean bill of health. Never had it happen again.

Talk about weird.

My dad was a lifelong very high hypertensive who had a "mild" MI at age 70 that resulted in afib. So I know all about INR, coumadin, heparin, fractions, etc.

Best of luck.

Keep up the detailed reporting DnvrFox the chronicle you have provided and the discussion it provokes may indeed help others. Plus it must act as some form of therapy for you to vent and express and I would guess this is one reason you have kept it up.

I keep "feeding" this thread, despite some rather extreme criticism, because I was one of those who felt I was invincible, (as I have noticed many in this forum also feel) and at times scoffed internally at others who had problems.

I mean, I walked, I rode centuries, I weight lifted, etc., etc. Nothing could happen to me! But within a short 3 years, I had Trigeminal Neuralgia, Atrial Fibrillation, Sleep Apnea and continuing, increasing hypertension.

So, I write as a reminder that NONE OF US are invincible, and that what I am dealing with is the most common heart ailment in existence, and YES, life goes on even with these problems, and, despite all, I rode 4,000 miles last year.

I hope it has some meaning to a small percentage of folks out there.

Well, count me in as a member of the AFib club. It was 15 years ago (age 37) and the doctors never figured out what triggered it but I did. Nothing like a huge dose of chocolate Easter candy along with a LOT of Michelob Lights to get the ticker out of rhytm. It also happened just 2 weeks after my last child was born-had my wife worried sick. My heart rate was in the 160's and I'd have to grab a wall while I was standing up to keep from keeling over as every once in a while I'd get very dizzy.

The good news was the heart cath showed very clear arteries. I've been taking calcium blockers ever since and have not had any repeat occurrences. I quit caffeinated drinks-no tea or soft drinks- but still hit the chocolate pretty heavy.

All of this was before I started riding just 3 years ago, though. I couldn't imagine riding while have a bout with AFib.

I would think that would be asking for trouble--potentially a bad stroke........

All of this was before I started riding just 3 years ago, though. I couldn't imagine riding while have a bout with AFib.

I would think that would be asking for trouble--potentially a bad stroke........

I have permanent AFib - all the time. I do not even notice it any more, and the heart rate is controlled by beta blockers, and any potential stroke concern from blood pooling in the atria is controlled by coumadin.

Doc is completely aware of what I do and encourages it. "Exercise is good." In fact, I have had two cardiologists and two electrophysiolgists applaud my bike riding, weight lifting and walking.

I don't quite understand why you would think exercise, stroke and AFib would go together, except for the pooling of blood from the atrial quiver?