Fifty Plus (50+) - Harrowing Experience - Update On Palpitations

Home will be all the sweeter when you return. I think you owe yourself a new bike for grinning (maybe) and bearing (for sure) all this hassle. Reminds me a little of that movie "Hospital" with George C. Scott. Best wishes still flowing.

Got the contrast heart scan done today. They had to use my other foot and contact UCLA Medical Center for the protocol, but after hours it all worked out OK.

Sitting here in the motel.

My blood pressure was extremely low last night - like 70/40.

Anyway, I have been taken off of metropolol, and have been placed on
solatol(sp?).

SO, in some random order I will try and put my thoughts together.

Regarding the heart screen, I am not the only one who feels as if
this heart savers business needs some improvement. There seems to be
a place right next to the hospital that perhaps does the same thing,
instead of having to go 60 miles.

So, they tried again (this time a cardiologist and another tech) and
were unsuccessful in getting the IV for the dye started. I was
getting a bit panicked, as this was Thursday, the procedure was on
Friday, and there was no way that Natale was going to do the ablation
without the images.

In desperation, I once again showed them my foot and that there were
usable veins for an IV.

So, they got on the phone and called UCLA Medical Center to see if
they had done Dyes in the foot in the past, and they had done
several. They figured out the protocol, and the timing and the
amount, and after a lot of futzing around, finally injected me with a
lot more dye that usual, and managed to get some usable CT scans.
But, that dye is not particularly good for your body. I was advised
to dring lots of water, but Ialso could not drink anything after
midnight in preparation for the ablation Friday. A real conundrum.

So, they gave us the CD's and we were the messengers who delivered the
goods to the hospital.

I was told that they had NEVER used a foot before! Guess I made some
history.

So on ablation day, I showed up at 7:00 am and took an INR. It was
1,8!! Panic again, but Natale came in and said "No problem!"

So, they put me on a table with all sorts of electronic equipment, and
started to give me IV versed and something else (using the other foot). Anyway, I kept
saying it wasn't doing anything to me and that is all I remember.

So, I awoke in the recovery room, and said Hi to my wife, son and
daughter in law. I was soon taken to the 3rd floor cardio ward, where
I woke up some more.

So, I did okay except that I was not voiding as I should which I
blame on the dye in my kidney. I drank and drank and drank, still no
luck. I also walked up and down the hospital corridor (wearing a
portable heart transmitter) for about a mile. I did that
intermittently during the long night. Imagine me walking in front of
the nurse's station at 4:00 am! So the nurse thought I should receive
a one-time catheritization to clear out the bladder. Ugh - and it did
no good except make everything from then on bloody!

Well, I didn't sleep much at all last night, which didn't surprise me,
as I never sleep well in new places such as hospitals :o)

So, it was really neat seeing the heart monitor in my room
saying "normal sinus rhythm" but MY BP was way too low. Still is. I
will DC a medication tomorrow to see if it gets any better. I get
dizzy when I stand up. My heart is about 59, which is where it was
before the AFib.

So, it will take at least 3 months to settle down, and care will be
provided by Natale et al during this time in conjunction with my
cardiologist.

So, that is about it. Please excuse the typing errors - this is the
best I can do right now!

So, I will be off any heavy exercise for 3 weeks. Can do light exercise after a week - gentle bike rides, etc.

Thanks for reading.

Hopefully, this ends the saga of the "Harrowing Experience!"

Great to hear from you. it sounds as if the treatment was almost as problematical as the original symptoms. We're all pulling for you.

Yeah, hang in there, Denver Fox! Lots of folks pulling for you tonight. Good luck!

Get well soon, I always enjoy your posts. Glad everything worked out ok.

Yikes, what an ordeal! I hope you get some rest soon and have a good trip back. I'll continue to keep you in my thoughts!

I really feel for you. Hope you get better. I have a condition called panic disorder. Sometimes when I would work out I would become preoccupied with my heartrate and stress out, it would eventually lead to nervousness, palpatations, shortness of breath and to be honest I thought I was dying of a heart attack. I'm only 21 so I am already on a similar but yet very different situation. My only advice is to keep doing whatever you want to do and don't let your body of brain stop you.

Amazing story. Glad to hear it went successfully, (notice I don't say it went well). Now just rest up and get back to it in a week. It's good to have you with us!

Wow...what a thread! Let me add my best wishes to everyone else. As someone said midway through the threads I sure don't understand all the medical jargon but it appears through all the trials and tribulations you somehow got to the right place. I can empathize with the stress part of the cause of your whole ordreal as I also have a severely mentally ******** son with a sleep disorder. My angel wife has beared most of this stress. I hope you're back on the bike before long as to me exercise is by far the best stress reducer. Keep posting and riding Fox !

It will take a couple days for the anethesia, dyes, etc to clear from your body. Feeling dizzy and lethargic is to be expected. Normally, the heart rate goes up after an PVA procedure. I'm pleasantly surprised that yours didn't. It took my heart many months to get back to its normal 55-60 bpm. It was 70-75 bpm after the procedure.

You will quickly feel better each day over the next two weeks and don't worry if you still have some palpitations. They should stopi in a month or so after the scar tissue has formed.

I'm sorry you had a rough time of it. I was very fortunate. My procedure was a piece of cake - especially compared to yours.

If you have any questions, please contact me. I can email my phone number to you.

FYI, my thrill for today was celebrating my 60th birthday by getting knocked off my bike by a dog. Fortunately, I escaped with minor scrapes and bruises. I can't believe I wasn't seriously hurt.

Take care and keep us posted on your recovery.

It will take a couple days for the anethesia, dyes, etc to clear from your body. Feeling dizzy and lethargic is to be expected. Normally, the heart rate goes up after an PVA procedure. I'm pleasantly surprised that yours didn't. It took my heart many months to get back to its normal 55-60 bpm. It was 70-75 bpm after the procedure.

You will quickly feel better each day over the next two weeks and don't worry if you still have some palpitations. They should stopi in a month or so after the scar tissue has formed.

I'm sorry you had a rough time of it. I was very fortunate. My procedure was a piece of cake - especially compared to yours.

If you have any questions, please contact me. I can email my phone number to you.

FYI, my thrill for today was celebrating my 60th birthday by getting knocked off my bike by a dog. Fortunately, I escaped with minor scrapes and bruises. I can't believe I wasn't seriously hurt.

Take care and keep us posted on your recovery.

It is a bit more complicated than that. Got really bad today. The doc put me on Sotalol, to which I believe I am having a strong reaction. I went to the ER today, and he DC the drug.

My major problem is that I totally conk out after about 1/2 block, and yet we have to get on airplane to get back to Denver. Wife has bad back, also. Not quite sure how we are going to pull that off!

We have extended our stay here for 2 days to allow for more recovery - cost a bundle to reschedule everything. We are thinking of shipping our stuff back by UPS. The SFO is particularly hard to negotiate.


I am feeling some better this evening.

Dnvr Fox,
Just keep at it to improve. Your attitude sounds terrific. Wish I lived in the area, I'd personally get you through SFO.
Best regards,
Dan

Let us know how you are feeling when you get home. Good luck with the travel. Don't be too embarassed to request a wheelchair at the airport.

You're in my thoughts. Let yourself rest and try try try not to obsess on everything. I second the airport wheelchair suggestion.

I also suggest a wheel chair or courtesy cart. Something tells me the toughest part of your recovery is going to be YOU! Already talking about getting back on your bike, for goodness sake! :)

Please don't be too impatient and give yourself a chance to recover so that in the long run, you can enjoy renewed strength and vitality. We're all cheering for you!

DnvrFox,

I've been following you and your "adventures" with the medical establishment. Rest assured that you have been in my prayers too. 'Hope everything goes well. And remember, a wheelchair is just a modified set of bicycles. Let someone else do the steering if you need to.

John

Let yourself rest and try try try not to obsess on everything.

Isn't that what we Type A's do? :D

And, yes, we are going to do the wheelchair gig.

...

I am feeling some better this evening.

Been following your tribulations on this. I've got 2 things to say.
we're ALL pulling for you. Besides the posters who have offered their observations from their own experiences, all the quiet ones, like I, are also with you in spirit.
2nd
Thanks for this thread and the dedication to posting everything you're experiencing. I've been reading and re-reading it constantly. I've gone back thru sections trying to absorb, but there's so much brought up and so many questions that come as a result.
Others chiming in about their own experiences, other's concerns. It is overwhelming and compelling.
Please do keep up the information as much as you're able and feel comfortable in doing.
It strikes close to home for many of us.
Not sure when, but some decades back I was advised I had an irregular heartbeat. Along the way I've had occasional tests that haven't revealed much more. Had a full checkup some 2 years back, with nothing much to report other than good indications and with my recent stint in the hospital and 2 days in ICU due to my mishap in Dec., I have to assume that there was nothing much of an unusual nature.
Still the hospital docs were a bit concerned on their first review until they learned I was dedicated cyclist.
They did mention my low heart rate, but made no big bones about it.
I've decided (based on the questions your thread has created in me) the best thing for me is to now better 'define' where I am. Meaning another full workup and stress test.

I hope that your condition can be resolved to the best outcome possible, and that whatever you go thru doesn't in any way further complicate the healing process. like cycling, this 'ride' is something only you can do for yourself. But we can 'ride' along side and hopefully add to the positive side of the 'pace'.
hopefully, soon, you'll again have (as Mollusk so aptly put) "...days where it feels like there is no chain on the bike and the bike is propelled by magic".

Been following your tribulations on this. I've got 2 things to say.
we're ALL pulling for you. Besides the posters who have offered their observations from their own experiences, all the quiet ones, like I, are also with you in spirit.
2nd
Thanks for this thread and the dedication to posting everything you're experiencing. I've been reading and re-reading it constantly. I've gone back thru sections trying to absorb, but there's so much brought up and so many questions that come as a result.
Others chiming in about their own experiences, other's concerns. It is overwhelming and compelling.
Please do keep up the information as much as you're able and feel comfortable in doing.
It strikes close to home for many of us.

Thanks for your comments.

Interestingly, I have been criticized by some for posting this thread.

There are those who feel they are invincible (that included me in the past) because of their conditioning - and I will add, good luck.

However, this condition is MORE likely to strike the conditioned athlete than the couch potato. The larger the heart and atrial veins (conditioned athlete) the likelier the atial fibrillation, and the opposite is also true - the smaller the heart, etc. (couch potato) the less likely. Almost all whales have it, and no mice!

I thought that one person's experiences might be of value to others.

anyway, I really appreciate your support.

Dnvr,
Just got my pc back after 5 days in the shop and have been catching up on your thread. Others have posted their support so eloquently and sincerely there's little to add. I think this thread, and the attitudes behind it, are the heart and soul of this "50Plus" section. To misquote something from another rider we all know who spent some time in hospital, "Its not (merely) about the bike, but about the people behind the bikes and our shared experiences at this point in life." Continued good wishes...

Okay, I just have verbal diarrhea, and I suppose those who can't tolerate me have put me on their "ignore" lists by now, or don't read this thread. Just one more update:

Wife and I drove to Muir Woods National Monument today. Beautiful
untouched Sequioa Sempervirens trees, majestically towering into the
heavens. A magical place.

Bikers around here are a bit crazy. They do the roads around Mt Tamalpais, which are steep and windy and narrow and have NO shoulder, as if cars should just make room for them. Which, of course, I did.

We did about a 1.5 mile walk on a boardwalk which goes by Redwood
Creek. Just a great experience.

Then we drove 3 miles to Muir Beach, part of the Golden Gate
National Recreation Area. A beautiful beach with sand and rocks,
and walked through very soft sand to get to the more firm wet sand.
Walked some there and just sat and enjoyed the waves and sound of
the breakers against the rocks.

Then, I sort of "hit the wall" in my energy level, and we drove to a
wonderful "Pelican Inn" about 1/2 mile away and had a scrumptious
lunch - wife had a shrimp salad, and I had Fish and Chips!

Drove back to motel, took packed luggage to UPS and shipped to
Denver, so we only have backpacks for return home.

Then I locked the keys in the car. Extreme panic. Contacted AAA
and they sent out a guy who broke into the car in about 3 minutes.
I wonder why we even lock them?

Took nap, and here I am :o)

Endurance WAY up, all catheter insert locations (3) healing nicely,
NSR seems totally steady. Just can't wait to get back into serious
cycling with working heart!

Cheers! Back to Denver tomorrow AM early.

Back to "gentle" cycling Friday!

Back to "Catch me if you can" cycling in a couple of weeks.

Sounds Great Dnvr Fox! My wife and I went through the Muir Woods and beach 15 years ago as part of our honeymoon. It really is a nice spot.
Travel Safely

I missed your update earlier this week, DnvrFox, but I'm glad to hear all is going well. I hope you had a nice ride yesterday and your recovery continues smoothly. :)

4 gentle bicycling miles yesterday, 8.5 today.

4 gentle bicycling miles yesterday, 8.5 today.


At this rate, you will catch up to me by Monday, :D Glad to see you are riding again, I know you will be back up to speed in no time. Keep us posted.

SUMMARY OF PAST YEAR (so you don't have to read the scores of posts!

I suddenly developed permanent atrial fibrillation starting in September of 2004.

Since that time, a lot has happened, to wit:

1. I learned to cope with AFib (which reduces heart output by 30% and requires beta blocker(s) and other drugs to slow the heart beat from about 160-250 - death enhancing - down to below 100) and gives a very irregular heart beat.

2. I continued my exercise program (weight lifting, bicycling, walking) with some vigor despite the AFib. In fact, up to 3 weeks ago I was bicycling 150 miles per week (I am 65yo).

3. I located a procedure called PVI Ablation which is used to reduce or eliminate the errant signals in the heart (causing the atria to fibrillate at about 400 BPM) by scarring the offending tissue with radio frequency heat. There are other procedures such as the Maze and Mini Maze.

4. I located a famous physician (Andrea Natale, MD) who is world renowned for doing this procedure, which is about 85% successful. He usually operates from the Cleveland Clinic Foundation (world famous for heart care) where he is in charge of their Electro Physiology Lab, but also does(did - he is cutting back) procedures in Marin General Hospital in Marin County, CA.

5. I arranged for the procedure in CA (8 month wait period as oppposed to 1.5 years at the CC) and had it done two weeks ago. It takes about 4 hours, involves three catheters into the heart area (two from the femoral arteries, one from the jugular vein), temperature probes down the throat, etc.

6. My heart is now in normal sinus rhythm, and I am back doing 20-30 mile rides and weight lifting and walking.

I wanted to let all of you know about this because atrial fibrillation is the single most common occuring heart disorder with about 2.3 MILLION!! folks having it in the USA, and many more world-wide. Sometimes it is intermittent and sometimes permanent. It requires the patient to go on warfarin to "thin" the blood to prevent strokes from pooled blood coagulating in the atria. Folks with sleep apnea have a greater chance of getting it.

It can occur in folks in their 20's. For some it is quite debillitating, for others, such as me, it has a lesser effect.

Interestingly, the more athletic and "in shape" the individual, the more likelihood the occurence of AFib - a bigger, "athletic" heart has a greater chance of getting the condition.

Thanks for the update Denver. It is good to hear you are doing well and back in the saddle.

Thanks, DnvrFox! Your recovery seems even better than expected.

Would you mind a quick summary on how you determined that you had this problem? I looked up the symptoms but it looks like they can vary widely from person to person and some don't even have symptoms. How did you know? Thanks!

Please see:

http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=66480

I am thinking about getting a catheter abalation for PSVT and was wondering if anyone else had such a procedure. I started a new topic in the General Cycling Discussion (since I'm not 50+)...

http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=137726

...but was then referred here, but there's a lot of old posts to go through! Could someone point me in the right direction, or post in the thread I started?

Many thanks to DnvrFox for talking about his experiences.

I am thinking about getting a catheter abalation for PSVT and was wondering if anyone else had such a procedure. I started a new topic in the General Cycling Discussion (since I'm not 50+)...

http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=137726

...but was then referred here, but there's a lot of old posts to go through! Could someone point me in the right direction, or post in the thread I started?

Many thanks to DnvrFox for talking about his experiences.

It is my very limited understanding the a PVI ablation for Atrial is a whole lot different than an ablation for ventriclu;ar function, with the atrial being much more complicated. But, I only heard that once, and don't remember where! It was recently, though, and have no clue whether or not it is true.

It is my very limited understanding the a PVI ablation for Atrial is a whole lot different than an ablation for ventricular function, with the atrial being much more complicated. But, I only heard that once, and don't remember where! It was recently, though, and have no clue whether or not it is true.
I got that impression also, that's why I started a different thread. From what I read, it seemed like an abalation for SVT is a simpler procedure.

I don't know if DnvrFox had one, but the doctor just gave me one of these to use for awhile to confirm my diagnosis. My doctor's office gave me the impression that this was new:

http://www.lifewatchinc.com/LifeStar-AF-Express.asp

According to the website, it can automatically detect asymptomatic events and record Atrial Fibrillation, Tachycardia, and Bradycardia with programmable auto triggers. The only problem I had was a couple of false triggers when increasing my heart rate really fast when climbing a hill.

Of course, now that I got the monitor, I couldn't reproduce the rapid heart beat on today's ride. Normally it happens when I get my heart rate above 160, but I pushed harder and hearter until I got my heart rate up to 190, and it still wouldn't happen! So I had to go for a run up a hill after the ride iin order to get an episode of rapid heart beat (240 beats per minute).

don't know if DnvrFox had one, but the doctor just gave me one of these to use for awhile to confirm my diagnosis. My doctor's office gave me the impression that this was new

Nope.

I didn't need one. My atrial fibrillation was sort of obvious and continuous - 24 hours per day, 365 days per year. No monitor needed to detect it. :D

Short update:

A few days ago I got into an Afib for about 3 hours after trying to
show off climbing a steep little hill on my bicycle. Took about 3 hours to get
back into NSR.

Contacted the doc, and he said not to worry in the slightest, as this
was to be expected and was the normal course of events, and would eventually go away..

But, I kept off of the bike for a few days, substituting 3 mile walks
instead of biking.

I got back on the bike today and did 18 miles just fine - all normal sinus rhythm (NSR). I
am now letting my heart rate go up to 110 bpm, and plan on increasing
it gently about 5-10 beats per minute every week or so for the next
few weeks.

Am sending in the 3 heart EKG's daily (you can send them all at once by telephone
at the end of the day).

Another person here in our church had his ablation done locally a
week after mine. He is having all sorts of trouble including
additional hospitalization and referral to a "rehab hospital"
(nursing home). But, he is not the type of person I could ever talk
to about going to the Cleveland Clinic or elsewhere where there is more expertise - whatever the doc says, he believes, and he shuts the conversation down very quickly.

Heard about another person - about 300 pounds and a really big guy,
who, when undergoing the ablation, had a catheter inserted that was too short
to reach all the needed areas near the heart. Absolutely gross
incompetence on the part of that doc, IMHO. It does not take a genius to figure out you should measure the catheter against the person's size BEFORE you do the ablation.

So glad I found Dr. Natale to do my ablation. Lots of scary medicine going on out there!

See this thread for my update on my ablation for PSVT:

http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?p=1593256#post1593256

I did a 40 mile ride three days after the procedure, with no problems.

See this thread for my update on my ablation for PSVT:

http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?p=1593256#post1593256

I did a 40 mile ride three days after the procedure, with no problems.

I am impressed. I am still working on 20 mile rides!

Check out this article from yesterday's LA Times about catheterization for atrial fibrillation:

http://www.latimes.com/features/health/la-he-minimaze19sep19,1,2471084.story?ctrack=1&cset=true

Check out this article from yesterday's LA Times about catheterization for atrial fibrillation:

http://www.latimes.com/features/health/la-he-minimaze19sep19,1,2471084.story?ctrack=1&cset=true

As I don't want to register, I can't logon. Can you give us the gist?

Doc okay'd a reduction in meds this week.

DC'd the lipitor (not taking it for cholesterol, which is fine, but they find it reduces inflammation around the heart during the healing process).

1/2 dose of the metopterol now, to be DC'd Tuesday next. Keeping a close watch on the BP, as metopterol is a beta blocker. However, it has been used to slow my heart rate during the AFib and recovery from the ablation.

I will DC the Warfarin in 6 weeks, but must go on 1 tab (325) of aspirin daily.

At that time, I will be off of all of the drugs associated with the atrial fibrillation.

I remain in Normal Sinus Rhythm, and am continuing to increase speed and time on th ebike.

Nice to hear! Your info has been helpful .... especially to my coworker who I just found out has been plagued with Afib and is tired of taking all the meds that the HMO is giving him.

Nice to hear! Your info has been helpful .... especially to my coworker who I just found out has been plagued with Afib and is tired of taking all the meds that the HMO is giving him.

So glad this has been useful to someone.

Thanks.

My heart is now in normal sinus rhythm, and I am back doing 20-30 mile rides and weight lifting and walking.

I wanted to let all of you know about this because atrial fibrillation is the single most common occuring heart disorder with about 2.3 MILLION!! folks having it in the USA, and many more world-wide. Sometimes it is intermittent and sometimes permanent. It requires the patient to go on warfarin to "thin" the blood to prevent strokes from pooled blood coagulating in the atria. Folks with sleep apnea have a greater chance of getting it.

Thanks for the update, Dnvr. You have an amazing workout regimen. I am envious :) Glad you're doing well. You are a good example for the rest of us!

Take care,

Steve

I've been following your progress as well, DnvrFox. I worry about you but you seem to know what you're doing, and you seem to doing amazingly well, so keep it up! Very inspiring!

I experienced frequent bouts of atrial tachycardia (extremely rapid heartbeat) for most of my life, until I had the ablation procedure at age 47. Many doctors told me tachycardia was nothing to worry about, but mine finally became uncontrollable and I spent a weekend in the cardiac care unit after an intense and frightening episode.

A few days later I had the ablation. A probe is inserted through an artery in the groin, and snaked upward to a point in the chest, where an extra cluster of nerves is burned away. After the procedure I was fine, except for a large bruise that developed in my leg. That went away after a few days, though.

The good news about tachycardia (at least the kind I had) is that it's neurological, not a heart problem per se. Which means I can keep drinking coffee, and I don't need any meds!

The doctor who deals with this kind of thing is an "electro-cardiologist". They specialize in the neurological wiring that affects the heart. I learned from him that a great many people have an extra copy of the nerve cluster that helps control the heart's tempo. When the clusters get out of sync, tachycardia is the result. When you're young it's fairly easy to get back in sync automatically, or by some trick like holding your breath and putting a bit of pressure on the heart. But with age, the most-used cluster begins to wear out, and the sync is harder to re-establish.

The ablation procedure was developed about 10 years ago. If you have tachycardia, find an electro-cardiologist before you need one! That "minor problem" is very unpleasant if it gets out of control.

--Bill G

The doctor who deals with this kind of thing is an "electro-cardiologist".

Around here they are called electrophysiologist - I guess they are the same thing.

I experienced frequent bouts of atrial tachycardia (extremely rapid heartbeat) for most of my life, until I had the ablation procedure at age 47.
A few weeks ago I had the ablation for SVT, which I posted here:
http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=137726



The doctor who deals with this kind of thing is an "electro-cardiologist".
My doc's business card also says "electrophysiology", same thing.

Around here they are called electrophysiologist - I guess they are the same thing.


I suppose they are the same, or almost the same. I googled both, but couldn't get a clear idea what the difference is.

[QUOTE=LCI_Brian]A few weeks ago I had the ablation for SVT, which I posted here:
http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=137726

Looks like your experience was nearly the same as mine. I think I may have been mistaken to call mine "atrial" tachycardia though. Apparently tachycardia can affect different areas of the heart. My doctor said some are more dangerous than others, so I don't want to give the wrong impression as to which kind I had.

I haven't had any more episodes since the procedure. If I drink about six cups of coffee I get a twinge, but that's all. How about you?

--BG