Manufacturer, Retailer, Survey and Consumer Feedback - Bicycle tour of Colorado “warning”

BICYCLE TOUR OF COLOARDO “WARNING”
I have issues with the ethics of the tour operators of the Bicycle of Colorado tour operators. This is a warning, if for any reason you can do the tour, there is no refund or credit.
Three weeks prior to the tour I suffer a broken femur. I spent the five weeks in a critical care facility. Immediately after my accident I had a friend notify Bicycle of Colorado Tour to cancel my reservation. My friend left several message on their phone and also sent E-mails. Bicycle of Colorado did not respond. After I was release form the critical facility I tried to make contact with the tour operator, to request a credit for next year, they did not respond to my contacts.
It appears the Bicycle Tour of Colorado is only interested in keeping my money, $385, and not interested in customer service.
So if you’re interested in doing a bicycle trip in Colorado please choose a tour operator that has ethics. I.E. Courage Classic, MS150, Ride the Rockies

Noted. Thanks.

Um, nice first post.

I don't want to be a jerk here, I'm really sorry you were injured and had to eat the cost of your trip, but they have a specific refund policy which they appear to have been working within, and I don't think it's at all fair to the BTC operators to accuse them of unethical behavior. It's too bad they didn't send you a "sorry" note, but that's about all it looks like you were entitled to.

Here's a cut-and-paste from my 2010 registration packet:

CANCELLATION/REFUND POLICY – DEADLINE APRIL 30, 2010
If for any reason a registration must be cancelled for the 2010 Bicycle Tour of Colorado, all requests must be in writing and must be mailed by postal mail and must be postmarked on or before April 30, 2010. Refunds will be in full, less a $75 service charge. There will be NO REFUNDS AFTER APRIL 30, 2010 FOR ANY REASON, MEDICAL OR OTHER, NO EXCEPTIONS so please do not call the BTC asking for an exception. (See Wavier you agreed to on your registration form)

I agree with valygrl . It's too bad for your injury, but their policy was in black and white. Considering the nature of your injury ...... losing $385 seems to be the least of your concerns.

Hm. Where's Coloardo anyways? Anywhere near Colorado?

Kinda with valygrl. Sounds like they're totally following the policy you agreed to. Yes, it sucks to eat the cost, but stuff happens.

I guess it sucks to be you.


Oh, and... welcome to Bike Forums.

Too late to gift it or sell the reservation to someone else?

Good idea....

Welcome to the forums and I am heartened to hear you are feeling much better!

I would think that they could at least send you some of the material, i.e. cue sheets, t-shirts, etc. if any of that was included in the fee. While I totally comprehend BTCs policy and think it is reasonable to prevent "second thoughts", I think it lacks ANY compassion, like most corporate tour operators. Heck, even the airlines have a bereavement fare so major things in life don't cost you as much. Everything has gotten so money oriented since RAGBRAI, SAAGBRAW, FreeWheel, etc. first started their rides.

Your post hit home a little with me as I used to plan 25,000+ person conventions and even our cancellation policy was much more compassionate. While we too had a "no exceptions" policy, if someone quietly and reasonably (and could provide proof if requested) asked for a refund due to an unexpected major event, i.e. death, major medical, etc., we would try to provide as much relief as possible so as we did not lose money.

I feel it would be reasonable for them to charge a fee for actual expenses plus some relatively minor punitive damages based on a sliding scale (last minute costs most), as they should not absorb losses for something totally beyond their control and they, with good faith, provided those services. That said, I also think that three weeks notice is pretty late. They have most likely arranged for all things (medical staffing, baggage trucks, personnel, meals, t-shirts, registration packets, etc.) except perishables for refreshment stops based on the number registered so any left over (refund) would be fairly minimal.

I could also see if the event is "sold out" that they would be entitled to the money, unless if someone took your place. No matter what, they should allow changes (name, address) etc. so the registration can be sold/given to someone else by the original registrant (not the tour operator) but have a change fee to compensate for the extra work required.

From a business point of view, BTC might consider offering "cancellation insurance" or a 50% credit toward the next year to soften their non-compassionate policy. However, I see that it would have only cost $35 extra (compared to lowest price) to sign up the day before.

That said, I also think that three weeks notice is pretty late. They have most likely arranged for all things (medical staffing, baggage trucks, personnel, meals, t-shirts, registration packets, etc.) except perishables for refreshment stops based on the number registered so any left over (refund) would be fairly minimal.

Yep. Three weeks out, they can't refund your money because they don't have most of it anymore; they've already spent it to provide services to you during the tour. And it's not like a 25,000+ person convention where you can spread the costs among that many people. That's why most such tours have such a refund policy, if they allow for refunds at all. It's disappointing that they didn't take the time to explain this to you, but that's the deal.

I've done 2 of their tours and had a great time on both. First tour I neglected to make a travel connection that was my responsibility but they found a ride for me. No complaints here.

Always gotta wonder about a person whose first post here in BF is a complaint.

Hm. Where's Coloardo anyways? Anywhere near Colorado?

My guess is that bicycletourofcolorado.com was already taken so they went with bicycletourofcoloardo.com....

It's not only for-profit corporate tour operators that have policies like this. Adventue Cycling has a "no refund for any reaon" policy, and I believe it kicks in 60 days before the event starts. That is why they strongly urge you to buy insurance. I did their Cycle Vermont trip in August. The night before I was to leave I dropped a heavy 8" Santoku knife from waist high while cooking dinner. The edge of the blade grazed the inside of my left ankle, about 1.2 inch away from a large, visible vein. Even if I were not on blood thinners, hitting that would have ended my trip before it started and the graze wound I did suffer took two days of serious pressure before it would no longer open up and start bleeding again.

Yep. Three weeks out, they can't refund your money because they don't have most of it anymore; they've already spent it to provide services to you during the tour. And it's not like a 25,000+ person convention where you can spread the costs among that many people. That's why most such tours have such a refund policy, if they allow for refunds at all. It's disappointing that they didn't take the time to explain this to you, but that's the deal.

Agree 100%

Um, nice first post.

I don't want to be a jerk here, I'm really sorry you were injured and had to eat the cost of your trip, but they have a specific refund policy which they appear to have been working within, and I don't think it's at all fair to the BTC operators to accuse them of unethical behavior. It's too bad they didn't send you a "sorry" note, but that's about all it looks like you were entitled to.

Here's a cut-and-paste from my 2010 registration packet:

CANCELLATION/REFUND POLICY – DEADLINE APRIL 30, 2010
If for any reason a registration must be cancelled for the 2010 Bicycle Tour of Colorado, all requests must be in writing and must be mailed by postal mail and must be postmarked on or before April 30, 2010. Refunds will be in full, less a $75 service charge. There will be NO REFUNDS AFTER APRIL 30, 2010 FOR ANY REASON, MEDICAL OR OTHER, NO EXCEPTIONS so please do not call the BTC asking for an exception. (See Wavier you agreed to on your registration form)

That is a pretty normal cancellation policy. I wouldn't expect a refund after the deadline. I have missed rides and races under similar circumstances and didn't feel obliged to blame the organizers, let alone bash them on a public forum. I consider it pretty bad form on the OP's part.

That kind of cancellation policy is typical. Tour operators often recommend that you get trip insurance for exactly the type of circumstance faced by the OP.

Speedo

Of course bicycle tour of Colorado is most interested in making money. That's what business is all about. They should have refunded your money or at least some of it. Because they have a policy does not make their actions morally right. Basically, their philosophy goes something like this: if something unfortunate happens, it's best that it happens to you and not to me. Too bad you can't go on the ride, but we'll just keep you money anyway for providing you with nothing. It's our policy. Therefore, we are morally right.

The wonderful thing about being literate adults is we all have the capability to read the fine print and choose not to participate in rides or tours where we disagree with the written policies.

I recently lost over $500 in registration fees and non-refundable, pre-paid hotel rooms because I had to cancel a ride due to a relative's sudden illness. I didn't expect *anything* in return, and I didn't even ask. I did call one of the hotels and try to negotiate for a future room discount or something, but came away empty handed.

BTW, I just signed up for next year's version of the ride I had to cancel out of. Though the relative referenced above has, sadly, now died, I still have a lot of living relatives so until they all die off there's always the chance I'll have to cancel again next year.

My perspective on the whole sequence of events is that I am super fortunate to have the good health to even contemplate the kind of bike rides we're talking about here.

Ride safe, everyone.

Two words: Trip Insurance.

The wonderful thing about being literate adults is we all have the capability to read the fine print and choose not to participate in rides or tours where we disagree with the written policies.

Listen, buster. You take yourself and your notion that we are supposed to live with the consequences of the knowing risks we take back to whatever fantasy land you came from. :)

Of course bicycle tour of Colorado is most interested in making money. That's what business is all about. They should have refunded your money or at least some of it. Because they have a policy does not make their actions morally right. Basically, their philosophy goes something like this: if something unfortunate happens, it's best that it happens to you and not to me. Too bad you can't go on the ride, but we'll just keep you money anyway for providing you with nothing. It's our policy. Therefore, we are morally right.

try running a retail business where you call your suppliers and say "hey, I had an emergency and am short of funds, could you buy back some of the stuff i've already purchased?"

I helped run a few kayak camping trips for an outfitter as well as day trips and instruction. There are some excursions that require necessary outlays of funds BEFORE the trip and minimum number of customers to be worthwhile and if people cancel out after you've committed to these expenditures you will not survive refunding the monies. If you have enough notice you might be able to extend a credit or make room for others on a waiting list. But the people running the trip would like to be paid, if you don't have sufficient time to get another person where does the money come from? Should the highly paid(?) tour guide take a cut? Should the other customers pay more? Should the owner simply eat it and raise his rates to cover the risk?

Having a broken leg is awful, imagine if the op just bought a $2000 bike just for this trip and the broken leg prevented him from riding on a similar trip for a whole year. Should he be able to go back to the bike shop and get a cash refund for the brand new bike?

So the $385 that was not refunded in any part was critical to the tour operators ability to remain solvent? Had they refunded even a part of the money, they would have folded? Had they bothered to answer their client's emails they might have smelled a little better. In the U.S. a business can get away with anything so long as they plead that they need to make their profit ( check out the health insurance industry for more evidence on this point). Look at all the support this tour company got from the posts on this thread. Profit first! I find it difficult to believe that in these extenuating circumstance, Tour of Colorado couldn't help out the unfortunate client in some way or other. But I suppose it's caveat emptor all the time, no matter who you deal with.

Heartless capitalist (and anti- and non-capitalist, for that matter) jerks seem to abound.

They should have shown a little humanity, or had some, and sent you some or all of your money back, with condolences and an invitation to tour with them in the future.

People with good hearts are also out there -- hope you are able to spend more time with them in the future, and less with the others.

JackB, the op signed onto an agreement that clearly states the terms.

There will be NO REFUNDS AFTER APRIL 30, 2010 FOR ANY REASON, MEDICAL OR OTHER, NO EXCEPTIONS so please do not call the BTC asking for an exception. (See Wavier you agreed to on your registration form)



That means he's got until April 30 to get a refund less $75. The people who wrote those terms didn't do it to be ********. The did it because they are in business to make a living. I've been through this. You line up people for lessons, it's not worth doing for less than three and you have someone promise to show up making it four, shutting out a group of three others(max class size 6) and the one who promised doesn't show up and the three you rejected misses out. Who takes it in the shorts then? Me and the three who were rejected because the class size would have been exceeded. That's why you put a limit on refund dates. If people don't like the terms they don't have to buy the product. Sure it may sound unfair but what if I as instructor actually need that income and it's not a lark?. What if the person running their business actually needs that income because the season is four months long and they have no income the other eight months. Their business is not a consumer choice on the shelf, it's their life. Do you understand this at all?

I would be curious to see what you do for a living and what limits you'd place on those you contract your services to or whether you'd give your labor away for free according to the random misfortune of your clients.

It would be nice to have had a return call, I agree, but when the agreement SPELLS IT OUT there must be a reason.

So the $385 that was not refunded in any part was critical to the tour operators ability to remain solvent? Had they refunded even a part of the money, they would have folded? Had they bothered to answer their client's emails they might have smelled a little better. In the U.S. a business can get away with anything so long as they plead that they need to make their profit ( check out the health insurance industry for more evidence on this point). Look at all the support this tour company got from the posts on this thread. Profit first! I find it difficult to believe that in these extenuating circumstance, Tour of Colorado couldn't help out the unfortunate client in some way or other. But I suppose it's caveat emptor all the time, no matter who you deal with.

Ya gotta be kidding me! I mean, if they had just said "no Refunds" I can see how you might feel like, "Well, I am the first person in histrory who ever had a medical excuse for asking for a refund long after the final date and I'm sure they will make an exception for me." That would be naive, but still a little understandable.

But to have language specifically spelling out your issue and saying NO. NO REFUNDS. DON'T EVEN ASK! EVEN IF IT'S MEDICAL!, language which you clearly accepted when signing up, and then for you to persist in whining about your medical condition making you an exception...

Believe me, they've seen medical reasons endlessly and they've determined that for them to run the business as they see fit they need to not excuse them. Believe it or not, as business people they could actually have a valid reason for that policy. They spelled it out for you clearly, they lived up to their side of the bargain, you presented them with ABSOLUTELY NO EXTENUATING CIRCUMSTANCES that would change anything about the agreement you already made with them. Why on earth would they change it? You say, "Well it's only for ME. They wouldn't go out of business on just losing my $385." Yet, why make an exception for you and not for other people with medical reasons? And then, if they make exceptions for ALL people with your excuse, they just need to change the policy. But the existance of the policy in the first place is because they NEED the policy to cover costs, as already explained to you ad infinitum above.

One thing I've not seen on this forum is a propensity for posters to side with companies over fellow cyclists. It rarely happens. If it happens to you, rest assured that you're probably WAAAY in the wrong.

Cheers

Would it have killed them or their bank account(s) to send him a card?

An apology? An explanation? An offer to tour at a discount in the future? A partial refund? A gift certificate?

To return his call, maybe with an iota of heartfelt customer service, humanity, or consideration?

To reach out just a little?

Would it have killed them to act with some class or some heart?

Or to have contacted him with something or someone (or even some words) not pickled in heartlessness?

my wife and I did a 6 day trip this summer with a large organized group. Was about $700 per person. We read the fine print. Dont recall the cancellation details but it was similiar to this. My wife's father had been ill this summer and we knew there was a risk--in the end he was well enough for us to go, but we knew that if things had been different, we would have accepted the loss as it was clearly stated in the contract.

Yes, if he had passed away, we might have asked, but as I am a freelancer, i know what it is like to have to stick you what you say, as folks will take advantage. In fact, in my work, extra work and reduced fees often happen after quoting prices, so I respect a contract.
If my father in law had gotten worse, and my wife coiuldnt have gone, we would have swallowed it, it was made clear beforehand.....

I know how the op feels. Last year I went on an arranged tour and had a medical issue. The jerk who organized it made me ride through the pain just because he had an appointment to meet on the other end. Of course, I never tour with corporations and the jerk who organized this trip was me. We're barely on speaking terms to this day.

All kidding aside, the company has no obligation to give the op any financial relief. Their refund policy probably comes from experience: Active people are more likely to be pushing the envelope and have unplanned, short-lived medical issues. However, I think it would be good business practices to at least contact a customer who missed a trip due to injury to offer some condolences and some sort of incentive to try again (20% off a similar or longer trip or something). Maybe they are focusing their energy on the people they actually get to know, but ill-will, even when unintentionally created, serves no one.

If tour operators are expected to refund anything despite their stated policies there would be a lot fewer tours.
Why do they owe a cancelling party a call or a note?
Expecting a sympathy card from people you have never met?

LeeG,

I understand your position and agree, to a certain point. My argument is not with you, but with the business attitude that seems to prevail in the U.S.: Give as little as you can, get as much as you can. I think some flexibility should be built into a policy. Giving someone a break in this particular situation seems to be the decent thing to do. By the way, I am retired but made my living as a professor of American literature. In my capacity as a teacher I had many, many classroom policies , some of which I had to bend a little( sometimes a lot) to fit unusual or unfortunate circumstances. I had no problem being flexible because I always tried to do the right thing by my students. I also should admit that I am quite the cynic, distrusting motives and behaviors of corporations and businesses until I have reason to think otherwise. A little more understanding in the world at the expense of "the bottom line" would make for a better society. Touring of Colorado should have communicated with their unfortunate client and made some effort to help him out. I'm sure if both parties talked things over, something agreeable might have been worked out. But they apparently made no effort.

Would it have killed them or their bank account(s) to send him a card?

An apology? An explanation?

This stuff is priceless! I can't beleive I'm reading it!!! Keep it coming, guys; I haven't laughed this much since I bilked that retired widow out of $20k this morning! :)

Really, now. A business is excoriated because they didn't send a card to a client who had a medical situation? I don't know exactly what goes on in the two weeks leading up to a professionally-led tour, nor do I know how many people were being served by this company on this tour, but I can imagine that there was a lot of stuff going on in those last two weeks. I can also picture the people who received his email shaking their heads and saying, "OMG! Not another one. We spell it out in plain English, six ways to Sunday. We list the policy on our website before they sign up. We list it again on the page where they enter their CC info. We write it out in great detail in the packet we send to everyone upon signing up. And now here's yet another person who ignores all of that and tries to ask for their money back!"

Imagine the company (which is probably three cyclists trying to scrape out a very meager living from this business) having to cancel the tour because one of them broke his leg: "Uh, customer, we're really sorry but we're having to cancel on you because of a medical condition. It wasn't our fault, so I'm sure you won't mind if we keep your registration money and ask you to just find your own way on this tour, since we can't hold up our part of the bargain."

The only part of the OP's post that isn't plainly descriptive is his claim that he has a problem with Co's ethics. Not exactly a bloodletting on his part. Their ethics are open to question. A tour company could be inordinately open to medical excuses. A lot of people use these services because touring is somehow out of their comfort zone, and if you add a mild medical issue, cancellations could be massive. But, a person with a broken leg etc... is not going to be able to go. This aparently comes up enough that the operator spells their policy out in heavy handed terms. So cutting people off and keeping their dough is normal, and keeping the money lowers their costs and the costs of patrons that show, but hurts people who have suffered severe injury or illness. That does seem like an ethical problem. You can approve or disapprove of how they deal with it, but I would say it exists.

At the same time that the tour company can have whatever policy they want, their customers don't have to like it, and they can say what they want within the usual bounds.

OK, I just don't get the timeline here:

Deadline for Refund - April 30,

Tour Dates - June 20, 26

OP post to BF on 10/7

Seems like someone is phishing here long after the tour timeframe.

You made a decision to take the tour, perhaps you didn't read the fine print, you had an accident; **** happens to everyone get over yourself, and now you've learned a $380 lesson to read and understand contracts that you sign. Now go and put on your big girl panties, secure in the new knowledge that you've gain. Umm, let's see, its call a life lesson, move on.

A company enters into a contract with a customer (and the other way around) to solidify certain agreements and ensure the legal protection to carry out these agreements.

But, the legal side is only one side of this issue. Whether or not the OP is in the right with his behavior, the touring company now has bad PR on its hands. If nothing more, the information they wanted to stay in the "fine print" is now at the center of conversation.

A proactive company participating in a competitive marketplace will have responses in place to deal with unhappy customers. Whether or not the OP is right with his demands or his actions of publicizing his discontent is immaterial. The company had every opportunity to exert some control over this matter, be it picking up the telephone, offering a 10% refund on next year's tour, or simply treating the OP like a human (whether he/she deserves such treatment or not).

It's good and fine to argue that the company does not owe the man a refund. That's a matter of legality on which the company has firm footing. What's really at stake here is public image. Even if you side with the company (which I do on legal ground), do you want to do business with a company that, if you believe the OP, is tough to get in touch with?

FWIW, I teach Business Writing at the university level, so I do have some credentials for this discussion.

Imagine the company (which is probably three cyclists trying to scrape out a very meager living from this business) having to cancel the tour because one of them broke his leg: "Uh, customer, we're really sorry but we're having to cancel on you because of a medical condition. It wasn't our fault, so I'm sure you won't mind if we keep your registration money and ask you to just find your own way on this tour, since we can't hold up our part of the bargain."

you called it. I had a former friend sue a bike shop that he used to get discounts from. He was a full time employed firefighter and part-time bike racer, his wife a well paid university administrator and they had a very nice five bedroom house in a nice upscale neighborhood. After suffering a pretty heinous high speed crash he tried to sue the bike shop for putting an undersized tube in his mtn. bike which blew out going down a very steep road. Except he was known for keeping his bike in crappy condition and overinflating his mtn. bike tires. That shop owner went through a hellish year preparing for the lawsuit and having the case dismissed. All I could think was that my friend had twice the shop owners income as a firefighter and ten times the benefits. It's really unfortunate he had the crash (recovered in a month and back to work) but a bike racer suing a bike shop?

OK, I just don't get the timeline here:

Deadline for Refund - April 30,

Tour Dates - June 20, 26

OP post to BF on 10/7

Seems like someone is phishing here long after the tour timeframe.



Good point. My guess is that the OP ... who has only posted this one post in BF is trolling.

There's probably a lot more to the story which the OP hasn't told us.

the touring company now has bad PR on its hands.

The company had every opportunity to exert some control over this matter,

What's really at stake here is public image.

FWIW, I teach Business Writing at the university level, so I do have some credentials for this discussion.

this is a story with an anonymous poster and a business that is not anonymous. It is a story with one side. It may be an accurate story but we really have no clue about the nature of the communication from the poster or from his friend but from the information given the poster got exactly the agreement he signed up for.

It's very easy to create bad pr. when it is displayed anonymously in a forum that is not designed for resolving conflicts.

It's very easy to create bad pr. when it is displayed anonymously in a forum that is not designed for resolving conflicts.

You can also be sued for doing so. It has been done before. I don't believe the OP and would use the service as I see fit. He didn't follow the rules and is complaining. Sorry he got hurt, but that isn't the companies fault.

Machka, or maybe the OP is just new to BF and was looking for the "correct" place to vent on the internet. I agree with do-well entirely. Legally, the OP has no grounds for a refund at all, and nor will he or should he get it simply for not reading the fine print. However, as a business owner, if a customer called and said, "hey I know we already booked all this stuff and now I can't go through with it," the very first thing I would do is call the customer back and explain what they are and aren't entitled to and the reasons why. Even if it is nothing they would be refunded, the return phone call or e-mail stating that you at least understand what happened and that your policies are this. Sometimes all people want is a little bit of an explanation or a confirmation that whoever took their money understands that you will be absent on that day.

A company that is that hard to get in touch with, is one I don't do business with, ever. What if the OP had went, gotten hurt out there and fell behind. They probably would not even go back to check on him or bother to answer the phone when he called from the hospital.

The OP merely mentions his issue with the ethics of the company, he does not say that he doesn't understand why. Legally, he has no grounds for a refund but he has every legal right to voice his OPINION about the way a company does business with him. He did not lie and say a whole bunch of slanderous things, he simply mentioned how awful the customer service side of this touring company treated him.

BTW OP: You did find the right place to vent about this particular issue. Monetary refunds aside, you should have at least gotten acknowledgment of your cancellation.

You can also be sued for doing so. It has been done before. I don't believe the OP and would use the service as I see fit. He didn't follow the rules and is complaining. Sorry he got hurt, but that isn't the companies fault.
So, how is this any different from Waterrockets complain about a a broken part on a USED bike? You can ATTEMPT to sue, but the company has no legal grounds for slander. If they tracked down the OP and wanted to go that route, they would have to DISPROVE the fact that they did not respond. They would need a dated letter or e-mail of sorts. Or they could have just responded to a message when the OP left one and avoided this slight negative opinion.

What if the OP had went, gotten hurt out there and fell behind. They probably would not even go back to check on him or bother to answer the phone when he called from the hospital.

.

based on the feedback of one anonymous poster you, another anonymous poster, contribute to the bad pr based on no direct experience of your own. I gotta say your hypothesis runs counter to every experience I've had of people who are responsible for leading trips where everyone shares the same risk on the road and the trip leader has the responsibility of .ensuring everyone has a good time.

I wouldn't know, the tours I have run were all fund as you go. I never took a dime from anybody, in fact probably spent a good amount out of pocket to ensure that the people with me were going to be ok. (food, jacket or something) We are all as anonymous as the next on the internet. What makes the OPs opinion any less valuable or true simply because he does not boast of 1500 posts.
I am not saying that I don't think this is just ONE unsatisfied customer out of a long history of very satisfied ones. But they have the right to be unsatisfied and let people know about within certain aspects. The OP isn't out for slander or blood with his opinion that the companies customer service was terrible. even if it just one time, which clearly it is not the first given their fine print to begin with.

As the OP said, a friend of the OPs contacted Bicycle Tour of Colorado to ask for the refund. As a customer, I would prefer that the tour operator not acknowledge that I was going on the tour unless the tour operator was certain that they were dealing with me or my legal representative. And as a tour operator, I would be very suspicious of somebody trying to cancel another person's tour registration.

As I said before, it's disappointing to hear that the tour operator didn't reply to the OP after the tour was done. I don't think that it would very much influence my choice to go on BTC, though.

One good reason for the policy is that it protects against fraud. Also, varying from the policy on a case by case basis, or even having a policy that grants refunds on a case by case basis, could expose the company to litigation. "You did it for X. My situation is much worse, so you should do it for me." The ride is open to 1,500 people, so the potential for a lot of refund requests is great. Consider Cycle Oregon at 2,000 people. They routinely go fairly deep into their waiting list due to cancellations.

And it's not like BTC is mega-outfit. If you take the average registration fee and multiply it by the maximum number of riders, you are talking a gross take of around $560,000. Again, that's assuming it sells out. Think of all the expenses that has to cover. Things like truck and van rental (Cycle Oregon has something like 4 semis to carry luggage for 2,000 people), gas, shower trucks, insurance, medical support, facility use fees and rest stop food and drink.

I any event, I have alterted BTC to this thread in case they care to address it.

My argument is not with you, but with the business attitude that seems to prevail in the U.S.: Give as little as you can, get as much as you can.
You do realize you're describing the customer there, right? :D

Let's face it, most punters in America want to be treated like royalty and pay like a welfare queen.

Also, it looks to me like the Bicycle Tour of Colorado is a non-profit -- as indicated by relying on volunteer labor and corporate sponsors. It's a tad unlikely that these folks are money-grubbing leeches who exist solely to separate a fool from his or her money.



I think some flexibility should be built into a policy. Giving someone a break in this particular situation seems to be the decent thing to do.
The problem is that your situation may be unique to you, but not to the tour organizers. If they have a maximum of 1,500 slots, there's a good chance that up to 100 people -- for whatever reasons -- won't make it to the ride, and the money was already spent.

I agree they need better contact methods. But my guess is that they have very few people who are actual employees, and probably don't have a lot of resources available, especially that close to the event.



In my capacity as a teacher I had many, many classroom policies , some of which I had to bend a little( sometimes a lot) to fit unusual or unfortunate circumstances. I had no problem being flexible because I always tried to do the right thing by my students.
That was your choice, but not really a comparable situation. If a student was late with an assignment or out sick for a test, neither you nor the school paid a $300 non-refundable fee to get the paper graded.

In addition, I've seen many students abuse a teacher's (or school's) lenient policies. Sometimes that can be justified, other times it can become a huge loophole.



I also should admit that I am quite the cynic, distrusting motives and behaviors of corporations and businesses until I have reason to think otherwise.
Does that mean we, in turn, should be cynical and distrusting of your motives? :D

Also, there is a huge difference between a small not-for-profit tour organizer and a multinational conglomerate. It's kind of astounding to lump such diverse entities together into one big cynical cluster$#@!!.



A little more understanding in the world at the expense of "the bottom line" would make for a better society.
That's nice. However in this instance, this "better society" comes at a cost.

For example, let's say BTC offered two tiers: a refundable option for $575 and a non-refundable for $375, all other services were identical. Which would you have taken? And if you took the non-refundable option, would you still expect a refund when you had a medical reason to skip the event?

In addition, often the things that could make a "better society" just open up loopholes for cunning bastards to exploit. Shouldn't a cynic like you realize that? :D

Or is it that individuals always behave ethically, while if you get 5 people together into an "organization" they suddenly lose all moral focus and become evil incarnate...?

Also, it looks to me like the Bicycle Tour of Colorado is a non-profit -- as indicated by relying on volunteer labor and corporate sponsors. It's a tad unlikely that these folks are money-grubbing leeches who exist solely to separate a fool from his or her money.

Actually, a lot of for-profit tour operators rely on volunteer labor and corporate sponsors.

For volunteers, the tour operator offers a substantial or complete refund of the registration fee if the volunteer works, say, one day out of the eight day tour. It's a good deal for those who want to be part of the tour but don't want to ride every single day.

As for corporate sponsors, well, every UCI Protour team has corporate sponsors. The NFL has corporate sponsors. It doesn't mean that they don't expect to make a profit too.

And this by no means contradicts any of the arguments that you make here. Your local tour organizer isn't the NFL, Target, or even your local bike shop. Tour operators should expect to be fairly compensated for providing a useful service, but in all likelihood they have some sort of day job because you can't make a living organizing one one-week tour a year (or even two or three).

Would it have killed them or their bank account(s) to send him a card?

An apology? An explanation? An offer to tour at a discount in the future? A partial refund? A gift certificate?

To return his call, maybe with an iota of heartfelt customer service, humanity, or consideration?

To reach out just a little?

Would it have killed them to act with some class or some heart?

Or to have contacted him with something or someone (or even some words) not pickled in heartlessness?
I agree 100%. There is no reason for their callousness.

Actually, he did more than I said, basically an ad for another company at the bottom. That would only be legitimate if he had a similar massive experience of a positive sort from them. I have heard of people giving the "wronged" party a free trip when a competitor drops the ball. Or at the very least , he also had a trip with them scheduled for the samish time period,, but they refunded when they heard of his accident. That kind of thing. But if he is on the level, if only from his perspective, then most of all the OP does is describe the policy the tour operator is proud to display in print, and outline how it affected him. I don't see a super likely troll here, is he really a posing competitor? That would be an enormous risk...

Would it have killed them to act with some class or some heart?

I don't know the OP (and I wager that nobody else here does either), but something tells me that, when OP became well enough to request a credit personally, OP was not a picture of perfect class and reasonableness.


Actually, he did more than I said, basically an ad for another company at the bottom. That would only be legitimate if he had a similar massive experience of a positive sort from them.

One of the tours that OP mentioned (Ride the Rockies) has a similar refund policy. Ride the Rockies allows cancellation by email, the cutoff date is closer to the beginning of the tour, the processing fee is less, and they might have responded to OP's email after the event, but OP would not have received any refund or credit from Ride the Rockies either. OP is obviously lashing out at the BTC folks by recommending that people go to competing tours, and is unaware that the competing tours have similar refund policies.

http://ridetherockies.com/about-the-tour/registration/


If you wish to cancel your registration, you must request a refund through email at rtr@denverpost.com by May 7, 2010. No refunds will be issued after this date. Detailed instructions will be included in your Rider Manual. A $50.00 processing fee will be deducted from your refund.