Classic & Vintage - What was the idea behind the Paramount P15-9?

I'm still pretty new to vintage bicycles and obviously still learning. I restored a 1973 P15-9 earlier this year and I love it. It is a very comfortable bicycle and I tend to use it for longer, more relaxed rides.

I know it is considered a touring bike but what was Schwinn trying to achieve with it? It is not a true touring bike is it? Because of its relaxed geometry I don't think of it as a racing bike either. What market was Schwinn trying to please with the bicycle. What other bicycles was Schwinn trying to compete against with this model.

I think it is an outstanding ride btw.


Unmatched performance that challenges comparison and featuring the option of 15-speed wide range 31 to 104 derailleur gears. Schwinn high pressure sports touring tires. Handcrafted throughout with the superb craftsmanship that he world has come to except from the Paramount complete choice of all Schwinn colors, including chrome

http://www.trfindley.com/flschwinn_1971_1980/1973_09.jpg

It is not a true touring bike is it? Because of its relaxed geometry I don't think of it as a racing bike either. What market was Schwinn trying to please with the bicycle? What other bicycles was Schwinn trying to compete against with this model?

The geometry of the P15 came from the earlier P13 (I have a thread up about it). By 1971, the old geometry was getting long in the tooth for racing, but it suited the sport-touring segment. Schwinn simply slapped a triple on the frame to justify the point. Presto, the P15 was born.

-Kurt

The geometry of the P15 came from the earlier P13 (I have a thread up about it). By 1971, the old geometry was getting long in the tooth for racing, but it suited the sport-touring segment. Schwinn simply slapped a triple on the frame to justify the point. Presto, the P15 was born.

-Kurt

...or left the double on, and voila! the P10.

SP
Bend, OR

Certainly a touring bike with the triple crank (which came from a tandem crankset btw). I think Schwinn was the only company that used it stock on a bike.

...or left the double on, and voila! the P10.

SP
Bend, OR

I think Kurt is saying the racing P10 was redesigned and the P15 kept the old geometry.

Edit: Oh, I see there was a P10-9 too... Or was the racing the P13?

I have a '72 triple in chrome.

Schwinn simply slapped a triple on the frame to justify the point. Presto, the P15 was born.

-Kurt

Did they add (more) Rack/Fender eyelets on the P15?

Did they add (more) Rack/Fender eyelets on the P15?

My 73 has one set of eyelets on the front and one on the back. I already have fenders on it and I'm thinking of adding a rear rack for light touring.

...or left the double on, and voila! the P10.

A.K.A., the "old" P13:

http://www.kurtkaminer.com/paramount_timeline.jpg


I think Kurt is saying the racing P10 was redesigned and the P15 kept the old geometry.

Edit: Oh, I see there was a P10-9 too... Or was the racing the P13?.

No, no - you have it wrong. See the chart above. The old P13 became the P10, and the P15 was based on the old P13 a.k.a. P10.


Did they add (more) Rack/Fender eyelets on the P15?

No :mad:

Granted, I did see one special-order P12/13 (pre-'71 model, that I do remember) that was custom ordered with double eyelets on the front drops. Full chrome, came with front and rear racks. That was a true touring Paramount.

-Kurt

Granted, I did see one special-order P12/13 (pre-'71 model, that I do remember) that was custom ordered with double eyelets on the front drops. Full chrome, came with front and rear racks. That was a true touring Paramount.


That's a bike I'd like to see.

A.K.A., the "old" P13:

No, no - you have it wrong.
-Kurt

The old P13 became the P15 and P10? The new P13 became the racing model? Weren't they all available to custom order? For instance, my '72 with a triple has an unusually high bottom bracket.

The old P13 became the P15 and P10? The new P13 became the racing model?

Correct. I could throw a Campag Record triple crankset and Gran Turismo RD on my '70 P13, and it'd be 100% identical to any 1970 P15 - not even I could tell you that it would be a "fake."

Only the Provenance Report I have from Waterford proves that the build was a P13; it so happens that Stan and I were a bit confused about what it was to start with.



Weren't they all available to custom order? For instance, my '72 with a triple has an unusually high bottom bracket.

Yes, custom orders were available during pretty much the entire run - case in point, I have an eyeletless 1968 fork right here - but out-of-the-box frames to standard specifications were the norm.

I don't know what they would have classified your frame; do you have a photo of it? I don't know if you're in the registry or not - I would have documented an oddity such as that.

-Kurt

Only pic I have.

Its down in my storage, so I don't have access to it, but I remember measuring the bb height at (I think) 11.5". I changed the Gran Turdismo and stem shifters for Nouvo Record. Oh and the Weinmann brakes too. 27" wheels, drop bolt in the rear, a little filing on the slots to the front.

Also my Paramount track (repainted by Brian Baylis) and a 50s track I've been trying to get back together for a decade!