Commuting - Advice from a cop

So a cop friend of mine actually told me he rides against traffic, and I should too. He said riding
with traffic is too dangerous...... I always thought the opposite, and the other 4 people I see on my morning commute all ride against. (I am not in an urban area, and the main road I go on is a 35mph crowded highway through town in NJ called Rt. 9) Opinions?

Nothing else to say other than he's wrong.

I am not comfortable at all going against traffic. Can't imagine meeting another bike going the wrong way while also trying to avoid the cars.... I like going with traffic and using my mirror to see what is coming behind me.

Ride safe,

Jeff

against traffic?

sketchy
not comfortable
illegal (as far as I have ever heard)
Just plain awkward (what do you do at lights/intersections?)
Piss off every cyclist who is going the right way.

Just say no.

Nothing else to say other than he's wrong.

Exactly

I agree with all. When I. Had to go against once, dropped my wallet and backtracked for it, I was freaking out

So a cop friend of mine actually told me he rides against traffic, and I should too. He said riding
with traffic is too dangerous...... I always thought the opposite, and the other 4 people I see on my morning commute all ride against. (I am not in an urban area, and the main road I go on is a 35mph crowded highway through town in NJ called Rt. 9) Opinions?


Go with what the NJ motor vehicle handbook says as to the operation of bicycles. Cops are often not legal experts nor the sharpest knives in the drawer.

I am sure that is against the law in the united states

The cop is wrong. Here's why-

Whenever you approach someone, whether driving, riding, or walking- instinctively you head to the right to avoid a collision. If you are riding against the flow of traffic and have to make an emergency move, 9 times out of ten, you will subconsciously go to your right. That will put you into the path of oncoming traffic.

As a pedestrian, it makes sense (and is the law when using the road) to go against the grain.

Ha ha. Don't do it! It is a setup! I think he only told you that just so he can ticket you later to meet his daily ticket quota. :lol:

Bikes are vehicles, not pedestrians... it's illegal to ride against traffic, no matter what they say.

Ask if you should do it in your car too, since the same laws apply :P

Ha ha. Don't do it! It is a setup! I think he only told you that just so he can ticket you later to meet his daily ticket quota. :lol:

Or you got a really hot SO that he's trying to hook up with.

As a cop, he is a person. As a person, he has an opinion. His opinion is wrong, in my opinion. Just because he is a cop does not make him more insightful and certainly not necessarily more brilliant than the next person who opinionates. I stand by my opinion. What is yours?

Riding against traffic sucks.

First all the cars pulling out of driveways and such are not expecting you.

Secondly the speed difference between you and traffic is much greater. Let's say you're riding 15 mph and the cars are going 35. Riding with traffic the difference between you and the cars is 20 mph, riding against the difference is 50 mph. And that means not only are you passing cars at a worse relative speed (riding with traffic a car only needs to reduce speed by 15 mph to avoid hitting you, whereas riding against traffic you both have to stop completely or one of you needs to turn aside to avoid a collision), but you're also passing more than twice the number of cars.

He obviously has not seen my front lights at 2000+ lumen. If I was riding against traffics, there will be a heck of a lot of accident as I will be blinding every motorist heading my way.

Ask your friend what he thinks after he is hit head on by a vehicle or causes an accident.

wow. send that cop in for remedial training.

What your cop friend is telling you is not only wrong, it is illegal.

No one has provided a good reason why it is unsafe to go against. The law requires pedestrians to go against, so there must be a reason it is safe for pedestrians to go against. Yet why would this, as yet unknown, reason be true for pedestrians but not cyclists.

I believe its worth delving into this, because the law is one aspect, but laws don't always benefit everyone.

The reason could be that statistics have shown cyclists have a high probability of an accident if the go salmon.

Just to be clear, I don't normally, but I did briefly scoot around some pedestrians on the sidewalk last week when the roadway was empty.

No one has provided a good reason why it is unsafe to go against. The law requires pedestrians to go against, so there must be a reason it is safe for pedestrians to go against. Yet why would this, as yet unknown, reason be true for pedestrians but not cyclists.

I believe its worth delving into this, because the law is one aspect, but laws don't always benefit everyone.

The reason could be that statistics have shown cyclists have a high probability of an accident if the go salmon.

Just to be clear, I don't normally, but I did briefly scoot around some pedestrians on the sidewalk last week when the roadway was empty.

I gave two reasons. The second one is the one that doesn't apply to pedestrians. Pedestrians have no appreciable speed (2-4 mph), so the difference in relative speed is not significant one way or the other. Also pedestrians can easily step off the roadway to avoid collisions.

Also the first reason doesn't apply to pedestrians as much because they move slowly enough to be able to avoid getting hit by cars pulling out of driveways, etc, and vice versa. When pulling out the car will look to see if there is anything directly in front or behind them. But they might not look to see if a cyclist is coming barreling down the wrong way.

No one has provided a good reason why it is unsafe to go against.

Here is one sample of why I will not go against.

You going against traffic, a lady behind their park car has her trunk up in the air. She was partially blinded and did not see you because her vision was blocked by their trunck and so was yours. She looks back and see a car approaching but got room to step out behind the trunk to go to the driver side door to get something. She step out and wham! You hit the person and push her into traffic of the oncoming car and DOA.

Question is who will her family lawyer will tried to place blame on? Even if I get off the hook, my conscious will not. :(

Being a police officer dont make him smart.

I ride against traffic because i can then see if a car is too close to me, is swerving around or doing anything that could harm me, and this in turn gives me at least a chance to get out of the way vs not seeing anything at all and just getting hit(potentially) when riding with traffic.

I ride against traffic because i can then see if a car is too close to me, is swerving around or doing anything that could harm me, and this in turn gives me at least a chance to get out of the way vs not seeing anything at all and just getting hit(potentially) when riding with traffic.

Get a mirror? That gives you that advantage with none of the disadvantages of riding against traffic...

I just use my ears and turn around to look behind me.

I talked with the Chief of Police in a nearby town. He rides a bike, too, and he rides in the same direction as the traffic and also rides down the center of the lane he is in.

chadwebster, you need to rethink your strategy. Have a look at this web site. http://bicyclesafe.com/ Actually... seriously... read it carefully.

There was a guy here last week riding against traffic on a major through route. He veered out for some reason. Why? Maybe a pothole? Mechanical problem? Flat? Rabbit? Dunno. Can't ask him, he's dead.

Your friend the cop has poor math skills. Let's say you are riding at 20 kph (13 mph). A car doing 50 kph passes you going the same direction. You've effectively reduced the speed differential between you and the car to only 30 kph. If you were riding 20 kph in the opposite direction, you'd increase the speed differential to 70 kph, giving the motorist far less time to see you and react to your presence.
The usual reason give for salmoning is that you can jump off the road if an oncoming car is too close, but that assumes that you have somewhere to jump to and that you'll be able to react in time.

I ride against traffic because i can then see if a car is too close to me, is swerving around or doing anything that could harm me, and this in turn gives me at least a chance to get out of the way vs not seeing anything at all and just getting hit(potentially) when riding with traffic.

Here's the flaw to your strategy (which was mentioned earlier by another poster): by riding head-on into traffic, you just increased the amount of force that will be used when you do get involved in a crash and reduced the amount of time to assess/react. And if you are doing this on sharp curves...

And I'll reiterate something that I said earlier in this thread as well. Everyone in the US is basically programmed to do one thing (okay, make it two) to avoid an accident- slow down/hit the brakes HARD and get out of harm's way as fast as possible. Which means they are headed for the shoulder, curb, ditch... basically right where you are at. And if you veer to the right when travelling head-on, you're gonna end up further out into oncoming traffic.

And if you veer to the right when travelling head-on, you're gonna end up further out into oncoming traffic.Yup, see my post above.

"reduced the amount of time to assess/react" how did you come to this conclusion? speaking for myself, i react faster/better when i can see whats happening, not when its behind me, and a mirror is just not possible for my cycling purposes sorry

The cop friend is wrong- very wrong.

For me my speed can vary from about 15 mph to 25 mph- much faster than any pedestrian or jogger. A car moving towards me means any collision occurs at a much higher rate of speed than if we are traveling in the same direction. Also, traffic lights are set for traffic approaching from the same direction- meaning I can't tell what the traffic light is doing. One other reason among the many more I could list- if I, or any other cyclist, is traveling with traffic and you are traveling against we have a really good chance of colliding and believe me we're going to resent you, if not sue you for messing us up by breaking the law and common sense by riding against traffic.

a mirror is just not possible for my cycling purposes sorry

I am trying to figure out this reasoning. What cycling purposes don't allow you to put a mirror on your bike? I believe its illegal to not have a rear view mirror on a car, but if I told a cop it didn't fit into my driving purposes I don't think that would be good enough to not get a ticket.

If your reasoning for riding against traffic is because you want to see what is coming behind you then save up a few bucks and buy a mirror and figure out a way to put it on your bike. The end.

Walk against traffic, sure. Ride against traffic and how does one turn left or right? Too many complications.

Walk against traffic, sure. Ride against traffic and how does one turn left or right? Too many complications.

Pretty much, yeah. I'll do it when my circumstances force me to ride on the sidewalk, but that's also because it's a wide MUP, and it's a single straight path from my house to my work...A path that would involve two left turns on a 45MPH major arterial road, because apparently the idea of making the only proper streets to get out of a little suburb relatively slow and safe for all the nice middle-class kids is just crazy talk.

When going back home, since it's two right turns and I can just merge straight in at a dead point and keep to the right, I stay on the road unless I need to pull over to down some water.

the only times i've come close to hitting cyclists when I've driven was when they were riding against traffic. you're not in an area people watch for oncoming traffic. you're putting yourself in a de facto blind spot.

where does a responsible driver look for traffic hazards when turning?
-nearest lane oncoming traffic
-farthest lane oncoming traffic
-sidewalk/crosswalk

riding against traffic, even on the sidewalk, can be catastrophic because nobody is looking for you


"reduced the amount of time to assess/react" how did you come to this conclusion? speaking for myself, i react faster/better when i can see whats happening, not when its behind me, and a mirror is just not possible for my cycling purposes sorry

you must be trolling. at least, that's my hope.

On the road/in a bicycle lane:

Riding against traffic is just ********. You're in a lane, and the time you have to react to an impending collision is extremely small since you and the car are traveling toward each other. Additionally, you're simply increasing the severity of a collision, as you biking toward the car increases its relative kinetic energy rather than decreases it (as it would if you were biking with traffic). Ensuring that you're visible from behind is much more effective and safe than riding against traffic.

On the sidewalk:

Biking against traffic will allow you to see and react to cars making right turns from the road you are biking parallel to, but you must be more wary of those making right or left turns from the perpendicular roads on your side. This is due to the fact that most cars will stop a good distance past the stop sign/red light (or simply roll through), blocking the sidewalk and posing a huge USDA grade A T-bone risk if you don't take this into account.

The law state you must bike with traffic,so does common sense

How often does a driver in a car making a right hand turn on a red or at a stop sign look to their right before turning? In my experinece not very often to never. On my old commute there was a seperated bike path that on my way in would put you out at the cross walk on the wrong side of the road at two different intersections. Even if I had the green I had to stop every time becaue I almost got hit so many times. The cars would roll right through the intersection blocking the whole cross walk before making their stop, the whole time their head turned looking left into oncomming traffic waiting for a break. I also almost hit a kid a couple of weeks ago driving my daughter to school. I pulled to the stop sign at the end of my street, did the left, right, left look and never saw him. I pulled out right in front of him and he barely stopped in time to avoid my back door. I'm talking inches. I got out to make sure he was ok, he was only 8-9, and explain to him why he shouldn't ride on the wrong side of the road. As a full time bike commuter I make an effort try to be overly aware of bikes and I flat out didn't see this kid until it was way too late. I think part of the reason I didn't see him was because he shouldn't have been there so for whatever reason my eyes and brain didn't put it together. As a driver you look to the right for pedestrians that are at the intersection, not 30-40 feet up the road coming at you at 15-20 mph.

"reduced the amount of time to assess/react" how did you come to this conclusion? speaking for myself, i react faster/better when i can see whats happening, not when its behind me, and a mirror is just not possible for my cycling purposes sorry

Since that's what I said, let me expand on it so maybe you'll possibly get the point. That quote applies more to a driver. If you are cruising at 15 mph and the car is doing 40, then your combined speed is 55. That's reducing the amount of time for the driver (operating a much larger body of mass than you) to check their blindspot to avoid you. Or if they don't bother checking and just swerve, it potentially increases the SNAFU factor exponentially. What if they collide with a bus load of kids just to avoid you?

If you are doing 15 with traffic doing 40 in the same direction, then the driver has additional time to react, as the new combined speed is 25 mph. This would allow a driver to come up behind you, slow down to check for a break, then safely accelerate past you.

Grab a buddy and find a stretch of road where you can drive at 50 mph without disturbing anyone (industrial parks on the weekends). While one drives, the other takes a stopwatch. At a predetermined point, hit the brakes- HARD. Compare times at 55 and 25...

He's wrong.

And I hope the rest of the department has more common sense.

a mirror is just not possible for my cycling purposes sorry

ahaha... mirror not possible? I don't use mirrors myself, but I would never say that they are not possible. Do you cycle around high-power lasers and are afraid of getting reflections off of mirrors? Maybe riding a unicycle without a helmet or glasses?

"reduced the amount of time to assess/react" how did you come to this conclusion? speaking for myself, i react faster/better when i can see whats happening, not when its behind me, and a mirror is just not possible for my cycling purposes sorry

Wow.

There's numerous reasons I won't ride against traffic, having to contend with 3 times more motorists is one major deterrent, another is the fact that is is tough enough for me to get motorists to see me at intersections while going with traffic, much less going against it.

The only time i would take adivce from a cop about cycling is if they are a bicycle cop. Riding against traffic may or maynot be legal in your area but it is for sure dangerous. Less reaction time for every party involved thats about all i need to not do it.

you must be trolling. at least, that's my hope.[/QUOTE]

hahah yep, but one serious question, do you guys (alot of you anyway) but mirrors on your road bike?

Straight from NJDOT:

39:4-14.2, 39:4-10.11 Operating Regulations.
Every person riding a bicycle on a roadway shall ride as near to the right roadside as practicable exercising due care when passing a standing vehicle or one proceeding in the same direction. A bicyclist may move left under any of the following conditions: 1) To make a left turn from a left turn lane or pocket; 2) To avoid debris, drains, or other hazardous conditions on the right; 3) To pass a slower moving vehicle; 4) To occupy any available lane when traveling at the same speed as other traffic; 5) To travel no more than two abreast when traffic is not impeded, but otherwise ride in single file. Every person riding a bicycle shall ride in the same direction as vehicular traffic.

Frankly, I'd complain to the chief about officers advising cyclists to ride illegally.

I have never been able to get the hang of mirrors on my bike they just bounce around to much to be useful

I have never been able to get the hang of mirrors on my bike they just bounce around to much to be useful

Get a helmet or glasses mounted mirror. I can't stand bar-mount/bike-mount mirrors for the same reason, plus you can't pan around with a bar mounted mirror. A quick, slight turn of my head and I can get a good view of what's going on from one sidewalk to the other behind me.

I ride against traffic because i can then see if a car is too close to me, is swerving around or doing anything that could harm me, and this in turn gives me at least a chance to get out of the way vs not seeing anything at all and just getting hit(potentially) when riding with traffic.

If this isn't a troll, but a serious argument, let me point out that, according to US stats, only about 3% of all motor vehicle/cyclist collision fatalities are from behind (2008). Since a high proportion (don't have nos. to hand) are caused by drivers right/left hooking riders and that's when they are, theoretically at least, in a position to be aware of the direction that cyclists are supposed to be coming from. you might wish to consider the likelihood of an increase when they are not looking for wrong-way riders when emerging from/entering intersections/driveways/carparks, etc.

Please book your place in Darwin Awards