Bicycle Mechanics - Spreading a Frame

I'm upgrading my old mountain bike to 9 speed LX components. I also purchased new wheels. My problem is that the new rear wheel doesn't quite fit in the frame. I can force it in by getting my buddy to spread the dropouts while I put the wheel in - however this is a pain. Plus, when I ride solo and need to change a flat it is going to be somewhat difficult to get the wheel on and off. What I would like to do is cold set the frame. The frame is Aluminum, but the chain stays and seat stays are chromoly steel. I found a Hozan frame spreader tool (HZ-C451) which is for both spreading and compressing the chain/seat stays. Does anyone have any experience in cold setting a frame or using the spreader tool?

Thanks :)

The frame is Aluminum, but the chain stays and seat stays are chromoly steel.
Are you sure about that? I can't imagine any frame manufacturer attatching steel to aluminum-the weld will corrode extremely quickly! If you want to check it out, do a magnet test to the tubes-I'll bet that they are either all steel, or are all aluminium.
If the stays are aluminium, you will not be able to cold-set the dropout spacing.

You wouldnt happen to have an old John Tomac series Raleigh, would you? Al frame, steel stays. Cool old bike.

I wouldnt think spreading the frame for the 9-spd spacing would be all that hard, as I have a rd bike I do the same thing with (went from 6 to 7 spd)

Or a Fisher CR-7. The rear triangle was bolted to the front triangle.

Are you sure about that? I can't imagine any frame manufacturer attatching steel to aluminum-the weld will corrode extremely quickly! If you want to check it out, do a magnet test to the tubes-I'll bet that they are either all steel, or are all aluminium.

D*Alex - My bike is a 1989 Raleigh Frenzy - the main tubes are 6061-T8 Aluminum, thermal bonded to steel lugs. The stays are steel. And just to be sure I did a magnet test - it sticks to every thing but the main tubes.

If the stays and lugs are steel, you can safely cold-spread the rear triangle by a few mm [sheldonbrown.com]. My 1959 Capo (Reynolds 531) is now 127mm (7 speeds) wide, up from 120mm (5 speeds), but I would not be comfortable pushing it to 130mm.

Hey damien- tell us about you bike! It may well be collectable if memory serves.

Damien - this all a bit weird ! I just got my chromo frame (6-7 years old) back from a repair and respray job. Whilst it was gone, I got a new Shimano XT hub and 9-speed cassette built up, fully expecting to have to spread the stays by about 2-3mm on each side to get the wheel in. When I tried it, Hey Presto ! - it fits like a glove... The previous wheel was an XT hub with 7-Speed :confused:, what is your rear wheel ?

If you spread the stays you'll also need to align and center the drop outs because they won't be square to each other anymore. Park and Campy both make tools for that, but your LBS should do it cheaper than either of those tools cost.

The other reason for doing this is to make sure the stays are still centerd with the rest of the frame.

John E – I checked out the frame spreading procedure at sheldonbrown.com. I think I would do better if I had a tool to do it with. Did you use the procedure on Sheldon's website? If so, how did it go?

Astra – My old rear wheel had a 7-speed Mountain LX (vintage late 1980's). Did the shop you took your bike to know that you were going to upgrade to a Shimano XT 9-speed hub? Maybe they spread it for you….

ljbike - I was thinking of buying a tool (a Hozan HZ-C451) – it spreads and compresses chain and seat stays. If I get this tool, would you think that I would still have alignment problems, or should I be good to go?

Stumpjumper – My bike is a Raleigh "Frenzy" – a Technium frame. I purchased it back in the summer of '89. (I'd like to post a picture for you to look at, but I'm not quite sure how to do that. I was prompted for a URL....I have a jpg file. Anyone know what to do next?) I am in the process of completely replacing the components. The frame is still in pretty good shape. I started out just wanting to replace my handlebars, then it kind of snowballed into a complete refurb (upgrading to LX components, 9-speed hub). It's a bit expensive, but a lot of fun. I'm doing all of the work myself – I've decided that I want to be my own bike mechanic, depending on the LBS as little as possible. I have already replaced the bottom bracket and the headset. Now I'm going to start installing the shifters, derailleurs, cables, etc.


To everyone – thanks for all of your advice, it's much appreciated. I'll probably have more questions later!

Damien, Yes! I have that Hozan tool also. It does a great job of spreading or closing the stays, but it is not worth spit when it comes to aligning the drop outs.

Drop outs should fit flush to the hub spacers to give the maximum of support. They should also be parallell to each other. It could cause undue stress on your axles if they are not.

Having said this, I must admit, I've known guys who didn't bother and their bikes seemed to run fine. At least, good enough for them.

ljbike - So would you recommend getting the Hozan tool? For the dropout alignment issue, I noticed that there is a Park tool (FFG1 - a complete alignment set) for about $80. Also, someone told me that the chain stays don't spread evenly - the right side usually bends more (because the right chain stay usually has a dent for the tire and chainrings, whereas the left chainstay only has the tire dent). In that case you check the alignment with a Park frame alignment gauge (FAG2) or use a string method (I found the string method outlined on Sheldon Brown's website). The FAG2 tool is about $40.

Damien, Didn't mention the new wheel at all. Maybe current XT stuff is the same as the old 7-speed stuff ?

Wouldn't it be easier to take the Frame to
your LBS and let them spread the frame?

Just a thought,

Marty

Astra - My new wheel is an LX - 9 speed. My bike is 13 years old, so that's probably why the new stuff doesn't quite fit. It sounds like your bike is a bit newer than mine :)


lotek - You're right about the LBS. I had hoped to do all of the work myself, but in this case it might cheaper and easier to go that route.

If the stays are bonded to the BB, etc, then no, you can not spread them. The epoxy at the bond has no ductility, and will likely break.

It depends on the current width of the drpounts but, if D*Alex is right [and I suspect he is] and you can't spread the frame, you might want to consider building up a rear wheel with a road 9-sp rear hub. It won't be QUITE as tough as a mountain hub, but some of the 9sp Shimano hubs are pretty tough and nicely overbuilt. The spacing for a road hub would be 130mm, and I think the MTB 7-speed spacing was 128mm, so you'd be able to use the hub without damaging the frame.

Thanks D*Alex - I didn't think about the bond.

The stays are steel and the lugs are steel. The sticker on the frame says thermal bonded - do you think that refers to the stays/lug interface, or just the aluminum main tubes/lug interface?

In any case, maybe I should run it by the LBS.

Originally posted by velocipedio
The spacing for a road hub would be 130mm, and I think the MTB 7-speed spacing was 128mm, so you'd be able to use the hub without damaging the frame.

My (1988) MTB 7-speed spacing is more like 135mm. Road 7-speeds run 126-128mm, with a correspondingly more severe dish.

Damien, unless you intend to use the tools more than once, they aren't worth buying. You could get yourself tied up with $150. worth of tools to sit on the shelf. An LBS will be much cheaper. However, if money is no object, and you really want to do it, then go for it.

Follow the directions that come with the tools and you shouldn't have any problems.

A bicycle engineer told me that you can spread the stays with a car jack and have a reasonably good chance of success.

The logic is that the force on both sides should be equal and should result in equal spreading on both stays thus keeping the centerline true.

I have never tried it myself, but since we are only talking about spreading the stays a few milimeters, it seems it could work.

Are you sure about that? I can't imagine any frame manufacturer attatching steel to aluminum-the weld will corrode extremely quickly! If you want to check it out, do a magnet test to the tubes-I'll bet that they are either all steel, or are all aluminium.
If the stays are aluminium, you will not be able to cold-set the dropout spacing.

Is it absolutely impossible to cold-set an aluminum frame? My Klein has 126 mm spacing, and I'm hoping to upgrade components to a 9-speed drivetrain. Can I not push each dropout a mere 2 mm to make the space I need? Or should I just practice methods for cramming a 130 mm hub in there?

Craig