Touring - waterproof stuff sacks vs panniers

I saw a post on a recent thread mentioning ditching panniers for some method of using water proof stuff sacks. I've been contemplating just that for weight savings, multi-purpose gear cost savings, plus a number of notions about carrying gear, water proofing, compartments, etc. This was initially inspired by the design of the Xtracycle Freeloaders and my own experiences with gear as an UL backpacker using a simple, single compartment, frame-less backpack.

I imagine this has been discussed but I couldn't pull up a similar topic with the basic search. Feel free to point one out. In the meant time, I'm curious what strategies are in line with my thoughts where a sling like the Freeloader, or a non-waterproof pannier like Military surplus canvas bags, are used in conjunction with something like DrySacks. I'd also want to hear the arguments against such an approach. I've been most interested in making my own (not the Drysack), and I'm working on the sewing project with grandma. So, the systems of construction and attachment are important while I creep through the project's planning stages

cheers,
-Michael

I used a couple of drybags on an 8 week tour, the nylon kind, not welded Ortleib grade. One was used as a pannier liner for a Carradice and held all my clothes and electricals. The other was used on the racktop for a sleeping bag.
I'm pretty happy with their performance. In the evening I would stash all my warm/waterproof clothes inside the sleeping bag drybag so I could find them easily.

Some tourists use a large drybag on top of the rack with 2 panniers. I prefer the better balance of a 4 pannier system.

Panniers need to be fairly tough material that does not flap around. The idea of a non waterproof drybag holder has some merit but my material of choice would be a flexible plastic mesh formed into a bucket. You can ziptie this to a correx stiffener and rivet on some mounts or use heavy grade zipties.

Some type of harness:

Check out the gear which some of the off road cycle touring folks are using.

-I'm thinking of the Taco type roll-ups some use to go around a drybag. They then attach them to the handlebar (most use a long/narrow dry bag). There are also companies which make them.

eg: http://www.revelatedesigns.com/index.cfm

-Now just make some kind of harness bound onto a backplate for large pannier sized drysacks. (I think there were a couple Ultralite packpacks made with this type of a system in mind)

-Or go with one of those "grocery-bag" type panniers.

eg: http://www.jandd.com/detail.asp?PRODUCT_ID=FGBP

I think one of the main reasons folks are going to dry bags is to get rid of racks as they weigh around 1 lb (or more). Revelatedesigns offers some good designs to go rackless. Other companies (carradice) saddle bags that attach under your seat. A few here are using a saddlebag under their seat and webbing straps to tie a bag onto their handlebars. Nun and bekologist have trimmed their loads way down. They have some pictures of their rigs on this site.
since you come from a UL backpacker background you might be aware that some UL guys have gotten their total weight down to under 5lbs. Impressive. Some cyclist have gotten their weight below 15lbs. We have a heavier weight due to tools and a need for a more durable bag/pack system. Can we break the 10 lb range. Some may have!

I've mentioned it once or twice, usually for people who are considering an ultralight touring approach. The inspiration is from this article: http://adventurecycling.org/features/ultralight.cfm

I haven't gotten around to trying it on my own setup yet though.

One thing to keep in mind though is that for road bicycle tours, the weight savings are negligible -- especially if you're already using your existing UL gear (e.g. tent etc). In most cases, the added robustness , convenience and better weight distribution of real panniers is more than worth the added weight.

Remember, you are NOT doing the work of lifting and carrying all that gear when you're on the bike. 5 pounds is a lot of weight for a hiker, but barely even noticeable on the bike, even on a stiff climb.

If you are doing off-road tours, a small backpack and a waterproof stuff sack on a light rack is much more appropriate and beneficial.

As to how to do it, it really shouldn't be that hard to find a small rack (e.g. Tubus Tara) and strap down the stuff sack to it. I'd use small stuff sacks to segregate gear and provide a tiny bit more protection. A little experimentation should suffice.

i have not used it before

Stuff sacks/Dry-bags vs Panniers are a trade off IMO. You can get kayak bags a lot cheaper than quality panniers, but being able to move your equipment lower, closer to the ground, and separate/organize it is worth a lot. Kinda depends on whether you want to trade dollars for convenience and handling.

BTW, anyone try these from Sierra TP? They seem well priced. http://www.sierratradingpost.com/d/4690_Drybags-and-Totes-and-Misc.html

some other factors to consider:

-in terms of weight, a set of waterproof bike bags are not really any diff than wet-dry bags, my Ortlieb rollers with the thinner material are not heavy at all.
-baggage stability, with just wet dry bags, you get into how to attach them securely to a bike. I have had a"regular" bike bag come partly off a few times on fast downhills when hitting a bad bump, Ortlieb and other brands have a system that keeps the latch system on your rack and avoids this. I slap my bags on and they stay there, its a no-brainer.
-cost over time vs convienence--yes wet dry bags will have many other outdoor uses, hiking, canoeing, motorcycling--so may well be worth it more for you to have a set that will do many things. I personally am a life long biker, commuter, so spending more on a set of waterproof bags such as Ortlieb was worth it for me in the long run. I use them on day trips, longer trips, commuting, I put groceries in them, whatever. I just grab them and mine have lasted I think 17 years of nearly daily summertime use, a pretty good life expectancy.

no matter what, waterproof stuff is great. I wouldnt want to go back to non-waterproof bike bags again, just for the convienence.

Both, organize your gear in small waterproof stuff sacks, then put them in leaky sewn together panniers.

with an Xtracycle there is the practical use of a big truck tarp saddle bag , and then smaller stuff sacks in it.

I have two dry bags though I'm considering putting a pannier on the left hand side instead...

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I have two dry bags though I'm considering putting a pannier on the left hand side instead...

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I've been working all day, and can't quite put a proper post together until later, but I've been reading and mulling over the thread so far. Need to followup on the links still. I hadn't considered forgoing a rack, as some mentioned. Sure, perhaps with a large saddlebag like the Carradice, but that's a very limited capacity. It would work if I could guarantee access to food and water along the tour... totally depends on the trip.

But considering a tour or general use requiring larger capacities.... I'll have to gather my thoughts and get back to this.

In the mean time, IMI, I'd like to see more pictures and hear more about that method you are using. What kind of rack is involved, and how do you attach? Stable?

cheers,
-Michael

I have been using a dry bag stuffer on my rear rack for over twenty years. Early on I found that they abraded in contact with the rack and with dirt b/t rack and bag. I enclose the dry bag in a more durable but light weight outer bag with straps to hold it on the rack. I recently had Carousel Design Works make an upgraded enclosure with external pockets for the dry bag insert which works very well.

I only use two front panniers. this combination of panniers up front and dry bag on rear rack works very well on and off pavement for me. Good balance and the reduced volume limits overall weight. this was particularly effective on the Divide Ride for moments of bike pushing. There are no rear panniers to hinder legs while pushing.

On my upcoming credit card tour (i.e., no camping equipment), I'm planning on using Lone Peak bags, which are not waterproof. The P-100s are 2000 cubic inches per pair and weigh 36 oz. A similarly sized set of Ortliebs - Sport Packer Classic is a little smaller at 1831 ci and weights 53 oz, which is just over a pound more. A pound is not a lot, but all of the gear and clothing choices come with weight tradeoffs and an argument can always be made that the heavier selection comes with a worthwhile benefit. Everyone has to decide that for themselves. For me, after reading about waterproof vs. non-waterproof panniers, I decided that non-waterproof panniers with a couple lightweight dry bags inside would do the trick.

Also, to the person who said that an extra 5 lbs doesn't make a difference on the hills, I beg to differ. Perhaps it isn't as noticeable to some people, but for the type of riding I usually do it makes a genuine difference.

EDIT: I also thought about just strapping on a sturdy dry bag to a rack instead of using any panniers, but I was concerned that it might end up rubbing and falling apart or at least getting torn. Not sure if that is a valid concern or not.

On my upcoming credit card tour (i.e., no camping equipment), I'm planning on using Lone Peak bags, which are not waterproof. The P-100s are 2000 cubic inches per pair and weigh 36 oz. A similarly sized set of Ortliebs - Sport Packer Classic is a little smaller at 1831 ci and weights 53 oz, which is just over a pound more. A pound is not a lot, but all of the gear and clothing choices come with weight tradeoffs and an argument can always be made that the heavier selection comes with a worthwhile benefit. Everyone has to decide that for themselves. For me, after reading about waterproof vs. non-waterproof panniers, I decided that non-waterproof panniers with a couple lightweight dry bags inside would do the trick.

Also, to the person who said that an extra 5 lbs doesn't make a difference on the hills, I beg to differ. Perhaps it isn't as noticeable to some people, but for the type of riding I usually do it makes a genuine difference.

EDIT: I also thought about just strapping on a sturdy dry bag to a rack instead of using any panniers, but I was concerned that it might end up rubbing and falling apart or at least getting torn. Not sure if that is a valid concern or not.We strap a waterproof compression sack to our rack top. But under it, we put a piece of ribbed rubber stair tread material which was zip-tied to the SS rack. So no wear on the sack or rack, and the ribbing kept it from sliding beautifully. The same material makes great mudflaps, too. For $10 you can get a life-time supply.

We strap a waterproof compression sack to our rack top. But under it, we put a piece of ribbed rubber stair tread material which was zip-tied to the SS rack. So no wear on the sack or rack, and the ribbing kept it from sliding beautifully. The same material makes great mudflaps, too. For $10 you can get a life-time supply.
That's very good to know - thanks for the tip!

I have two dry bags though I'm considering putting a pannier on the left hand side instead...

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What ya packing for a guitar?

I've been working all day, and can't quite put a proper post together until later, but I've been reading and mulling over the thread so far. Need to followup on the links still. I hadn't considered forgoing a rack, as some mentioned. Sure, perhaps with a large saddlebag like the Carradice, but that's a very limited capacity. It would work if I could guarantee access to food and water along the tour... totally depends on the trip.

But considering a tour or general use requiring larger capacities.... I'll have to gather my thoughts and get back to this.

In the mean time, IMI, I'd like to see more pictures and hear more about that method you are using. What kind of rack is involved, and how do you attach? Stable?

cheers,
-Michael

Here's a link to the drysack tests I did. I like the light weight and there's plenty of capacity, but getting at stuff was a pain. My system was to attach the bags using nylon straps. That worked well and the compression sacks made the load very stable. Still I don't think the weight savings win out over the convenience of my Carradice Nelson Longflap and my new Ortlieb handlebar bag.

http://wheelsofchance.org/2010/02/02/ultralight-setup/

I've used some MSR brand compression waterproof stuffsacks in lieu of panniers before... if you keep your load light, absolutely.

The bags still need to be stout IMO, a silnylon stuffsack wouldn't hold up very long, a hydroseal coated, tougher taslan or cordura compression sack would be the way to go IMO.

In the mean time, IMI, I'd like to see more pictures and hear more about that method you are using. What kind of rack is involved, and how do you attach? Stable?

-Michael

Morning folks! (well it is here)... an' I've got to go to work so I'll get back to you this (my) evening :) gear wire broke yesterday on commuting bike, which I then forgot to fix so I'm in a bit of rush now...

Here's a link to the drysack tests I did. I like the light weight and there's plenty of capacity, but getting at stuff was a pain. My system was to attach the bags using nylon straps. That worked well and the compression sacks made the load very stable. Still I don't think the weight savings win out over the convenience of my Carradice Nelson Longflap and my new Ortlieb handlebar bag.

http://wheelsofchance.org/2010/02/02/ultralight-setup/

Great info and links... and then more links and bookmarks. With this I'm starting to transform my UL Backpacking philosophies and strategies into an approach to loaded touring. I badly have not wanted to start from scratch, as I did with backpacking: loading up on the wrong gear, then buying a wealth of expensive, high-tech replacements before the practical/mindful realizations settled in.

I would imagine that a compression sack as a saddlebag, paired with a neatly accessible handlebar bag would separate handy gear and supplies from the camp list. I've been rebelling against the notion that more compartments are better and panel access is better. It just leads to poorer organization and inevitably more "stuff". IMHO

So, just like a frameless backpack, it comes down to capacity and weight. I have a 7lbs 3-season base weight, and can carry 5-7days of food and water (2lbs/day, 3-6lbs water), in a 50L/28lbsMAX pack. I have to do similar numbers to compare this to the combined capacity of the saddlebag and handlebar bag. And then reconsider front or rear racks for a pannier type system (but with slung sacks) if needed.

And there's a cutoff, like in my pack; even if you wanted to carry 30+lbs of gear, the framless pack fails painfully. So, your base weight increases with a framed pack, but your capacity grows exponentially. Probably the same with the touring setups we're discussing.

Somewhere it came up, the idea of a saddlebag/stuffsack + handlebar bag + front panniers. I can see that working great to push your food/water carrying capacity. But that's the real weight, food and water. What is the max load for front racks? And your front fork/wheel?

thanks guys!
-Michael

Wait, one more: what happens to stability when all that weight is high behind your saddle? I've tied a milk crate to my rear rack and when loaded with goods, e.g. my backpack, market goods, it's a shaky ride. Peek at my sig to see what I'm riding. Maybe the old touring rig just isn't right for this method.

Huh? Some people have waterproof panniers?

Technically it seems hard to believe waterproof stuffs are lighter than a single membrane that covers everything at once...

I like these:

http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?330014-making-panniers&highlight=diy+panniers

I would imagine that a compression sack as a saddlebag, paired with a neatly accessible handlebar bag would separate handy gear and supplies from the camp list. I've been rebelling against the notion that more compartments are better and panel access is better. It just leads to poorer organization and inevitably more "stuff". IMHO

So, just like a frameless backpack, it comes down to capacity and weight. I have a 7lbs 3-season base weight, and can carry 5-7days of food and water (2lbs/day, 3-6lbs water), in a 50L/28lbsMAX pack. I have to do similar numbers to compare this to the combined capacity of the saddlebag and handlebar bag. And then reconsider front or rear racks for a pannier type system (but with slung sacks) if needed.

.

Great idea to use a handlebar bag for stuff you need at hand.

Food and water are the heaviest stuff you'll be carrying. If you're hiking the AT you might want 5-7 supply, but remember on a bike you can cover 100 miles in a day and that puts you far closer to resupply. Unless I was going to Mongolia 2 or 3 days is the max I'd ever carry

So, just like a frameless backpack, it comes down to capacity and weight. I have a 7lbs 3-season base weight, and can carry 5-7days of food and water (2lbs/day, 3-6lbs water), in a 50L/28lbsMAX pack. I have to do similar numbers to compare this to the combined capacity of the saddlebag and handlebar bag. And then reconsider front or rear racks for a pannier type system (but with slung sacks) if needed.


-Michael



I think you hit on it with the capacity and weight. I really think Lone peaks 2000CI front pannier and a lighter weight Tubus gives one the lowest weight with highest carrying capacity. Here's part of my post from a similar discussion earlier this year.

"......I do think the Arkel Big Bag is way heavy if ultralight touring is the goal. It goes @ 3 lbs. You could easily put 2 small Lone Peak panniers and a Tubus Duo rack on the front and come in just over 3 lbs while picking up 1500CI storage in the process(total 2000CI=33L). The Carradice also seems a tad heavy but at least has a decent volume. I'm thinking the Tubus and LP front bags might be one of the lighter touring options. Use a tubus fly rear rack for an ultralightweight dry bag with tent, pad , bag etc. strapped down. Weights are almost equal and you have a lot more storage volume.
I do like the way folks are really looking into ultralight touring. I almost bought a set(4 bags)of pannier but now will wait. Please report back on how much the Carradice can hold. I wonder if anyone has determined the volume/weight numbers of many pannier/saddlebag system. A quick look at the numbers show Arkel/Carradice combo weighs 2180gm with 34L and the Tubus/Lonepeak weighs 1420gm with 33L. That's750gms difference(1.5lbs) which can be used for a rear rack,Tubus Fly(300gms) and a dry bag(wt??). Less weight and more volume. Maybe I'm doing something wrong but this seems to be a lighter way to travel....."

Home made panniers and dry sacks will work just fine. Heck, dry sacks alone secured with bungies will work fine too. All a matter of tolerance for some inconvenience and appearence, as well as your budget.

That's one of the things so great about touring on a bicycle. It can be done on just about any budget.

Great idea to use a handlebar bag for stuff you need at hand.

Food and water are the heaviest stuff you'll be carrying. If you're hiking the AT you might want 5-7 supply, but remember on a bike you can cover 100 miles in a day and that puts you far closer to resupply. Unless I was going to Mongolia 2 or 3 days is the max I'd ever carry

I'm with you nun. 3 days unless some God-awful conditions dictate differently.

Also when carrying water, it sloshes something awful. Better to split it up in 1 liter portions and spread it around the bike IMO.

In the mean time, IMI, I'd like to see more pictures and hear more about that method you are using. What kind of rack is involved, and how do you attach? Stable?


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The dry bags are attached with two regular webbing straps each wrapped round and through the rack. I now have a Tubus Logo rack, but have had cheaper generic racks with the same set up.

Originally I took my hitchhiking gear and just tied it to my bike; small rucksack on the top of the rack, sleeping bag on the left and guitar on the right. The great thing was I could take everything off and carry it as usual. This winter in California I replaced the rucksack with a dry bag as I was expecting more rainy days.

As to stability it's fine... My max speed has been 43 mph coasting downhill, but flying down a hill into Santa Barbara I got hit by a crosswind, started to wobble and was very very (way too) close to a crash landing... Hard to resist, but I keep telling myself not to just let fly! ;) hihi...


What ya packing for a guitar?

It's a standard nylon string classical guitar (Raimundo Model 104, from Valencia, Spain)... plus hard case (total weight about 11 lbs)... worth about $200.

The guitar is attached to the rack with a webbing strap round the case's waist and through the rack, and a bungee cord from the rack under the case. The towel protects the neck from the sun, as well as being a great place to dry it...

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(Travelling guitar laying in a hammock on a beautiful hot summer day... probably waiting for a cold beer...)

some more of my opinions:

-My old Ortlieb roller Plus (lighter ones) hold 40 litres per pair, weigh a bit over 3 lbs per pair (just checked on my scale) the new rollers weigh a bit more- 1680 g/59oz/3.7 lbs as they now have an inner pocket divider thingee+they are including the shoulder straps (that I have never used). The lighter "PLUS" model is a bit more costly, I recall at the time being so concerned about weight that I said "what the heck, over time it wont be much money" and I am still glad I got the lighter ones.

-If I go out with not much stuff, I just put less stuff in, but they are there for when I do need max, capacity. In other words, I dont see the prob with having larger bags and not filling them if one wants to go lightweight, if you want to fill them to the gills, fill em.

-I prefer the roll ups as one can stuff odd shaped stuff in them, and when touring, I would buy supper/bkfast stuff at end the day usually and could ride with the tops unrolled but clipped at the top pointing upwards and have a bunch more stuff inthem than when rolled (if not raining). This is also handy for day to day life with an oddly shaped purchase fitting in.

-Also, I never use the "strap" like in the photos of these bags to "compress" them, I just clip the two ends of the roll up ends together up top. I never liked the idea of carrying my full bags by the supplied "shoulder" straps anyway, as it seemed to put a lot of stress on the bag, so I always carry them by the handle.

-all this talk of water and food, you can relate this to backpacking IF you are biking in areas where you are never in contact with towns, villages etc. I personally have always toured in areas where one does pass houses, villages whatever, so I never had to carry more than my three bikemounted bike bottles. My travelling in Europe and in NA may be very diff than what Depleted wants to do.

-another preference of mine for waterproof type bags is not having a cordura type bag that after riding in rain stays wet in your tent with you and takes forever to dry out.
-I have found I also prefer zipperless bags now, less "forcing" issues and possible failures. I realize its all down to preference, but a "one-body" style vs multiple pockets is ok with me, I acknowledge the handiness of some outside pockets (had them for years) but can live with it for the waterproof advantage.

-my small, front rack, non-waterproof bags would have my raingear and cooking stuff (less important for if a bit wet even with plastic bags inside.) and for rain gear, easy access as not under or hidden under other stuff in a larger bag.

-growing up, I did a lot of canoe camping, with required plastic bagging of all clothes, sleeping bag etc, so I am very happy NOT to mess around with plastic bags inside cordura bike bags--but this is a pref, and non waterproof bags with good sturdy plastic bags inside works fine too.

-I too used a 7lb tent, its pretty heavy and there are tons (sic) of lighter 2 person tents out there now that dont cost an arm and a leg but are still good designs for wind and rain that are probably 3 lbs less right off.

+2 on Carbonfibreboys tip for the ribbed rubber stuff on the rack, great idea (my tent used to meander sometimes)

+2 on SBR commenting on how 5 lbs does make a diff. on hills. If you are climbing, you really want to pay attention to keeping weight down---this touches on touring in general, even if you are not taking any camping stuff, one still needs certain clothes, rain gear, repair/spare tubes, camera etc etc, so for me, a couple of rear panniers and a handlebar bag is the simplest, most secure way to travel by bike.
Its easier for me to mix and match as my wife and I have a couple of sets of bike bags, but I find I still always use my Ortlieb Back Roller Plus ones.

-as for your question on weight up front, this is going to be your personal choice, I personally like keeping a lighter front end so my steering stays as light as it can be (within reason of carry all the stuff for a long trip) Part of the enjoyment of riding a bike for me is going down a hill and around corners, so I always prefer the feeling of more weight at the back, a handlebar bag for camera, valuables, map, quick snack; and then perhaps smallish front bags with light stuff.
Why even consider putting all your stuff up front and deadening the ride of your bike when a rear rack can take most?

-and as for rear racks, some of them weigh a ton. Reasonably priced, three vertical "rod or support" ones work fine too and weigh half as much as the beefier ones (if you are going to Mongolia, get the beefier one)

-my old handlebar bag is non-waterproof, but I fashioned a plastic bag with duct tape etc for it to fit over it and that works too. I mention this cuz I have seen some heavy duty, waterproof ones and they weigh a lot lot more (plus I prefer keeping teh weight down in this bag anyway, so dont need a super beefy one)

-as for the milk crate comment, Ive ridden friends bikes with these, and yes, keeping the weight low makes a real difference in how it feels. Really.

http://lh6.ggpht.com/_0jkA5M3PGcY/StvHYCI2HYI/AAAAAAAANvA/b2UCTMtMcA0/s800/IMG_9474.JPG

http://lh4.ggpht.com/_0jkA5M3PGcY/StvHXhtmPuI/AAAAAAAANu8/ZrUlAUfixoE/s800/IMG_9456.JPG

http://lh5.ggpht.com/_0jkA5M3PGcY/St23nmjJ9uI/AAAAAAAANvg/bnFg7TMcTxo/s800/IMG_9479.JPG

http://lh6.ggpht.com/_0jkA5M3PGcY/SttcJffVsAI/AAAAAAAANs0/h-rzO8uiaBc/s800/IMG_9412.JPG

thats a nice looking setup. Looks like it doesnt move around either with the velcro part and the cinching straps.

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I do like the way folks are really looking into ultralight touring. I almost bought a set(4 bags)of pannier but now will wait. Please report back on how much the Carradice can hold. I wonder if anyone has determined the volume/weight numbers of many pannier/saddlebag system. A quick look at the numbers show Arkel/Carradice combo weighs 2180gm with 34L and the Tubus/Lonepeak weighs 1420gm with 33L. That's750gms difference(1.5lbs) which can be used for a rear rack,Tubus Fly(300gms) and a dry bag(wt??). Less weight and more volume. Maybe I'm doing something wrong but this seems to be a lighter way to travel....."

Traditional Carradice bags made of cotton duck material will always loose out when it comes to weight. My Nelson Longflap weighs 2 lbs and is 18 Litres, that's why I'm interested in compression sacks and the stuff Carousel and Relevant makes. However, part of my approach to reducing weight is to also reduce volume. I did that for a few years until I had my gear list well tuned. Then, this year, I bought an Ortlieb handlebar bag. Now I have quite a bit of unused volume in it for things I might buy on the road or to carry a six pack of something. I also like the klickfix mount as its stable and lets me take the bag off the bike quickly.

Relevate Designs!!!

Modular soft-rack systems, harness', slings, detachable pocket covers... it's like they're in my mind. I'm so freakin' impressed. And, thankfully, it looks like I can avoid my obsessive compulsive tendency toward MYOG with every idea. Especially as I'm just not comfortable sewing, and these projects take me forever.

Relevate Designs!!!

Modular soft-rack systems, harness', slings, detachable pocket covers... it's like they're in my mind. I'm so freakin' impressed. And, thankfully, it looks like I can avoid my obsessive compulsive tendency toward MYOG with every idea. Especially as I'm just not comfortable sewing, and these projects take me forever.

thats what i'm running and i've been very happy.
cold weather test this weekend. adding in a jandd frame bag to carry cook kit and tools.
might carry my wingnut gear hyper if needed. we might be ferrying water to a closed forest service campground. (or i can bring the filter...)

bmike, very purdy bike too!

I have friends who live quite close to the Vermont/Quebec border (20 mins by bike) and we ride into Vermont for day rides sometimes, up in the Berkshire area. Really pretty area to ride in, I love the ups and downs and all the nice views. Vermont has always impressed me with the riding possibilities, the conditions of the roads and how generally folks in cars are courteous to bikers.
I am always glad to have a triple however!

have a good weekend, here in Montreal its going to be close to freezing at night.

Braze-ons/no braze-ons is the edge of the knife. No braze-ons, bmike's setup is pretty hard to beat. Braze-ons, rear rack and panniers pretty hard to beat. Tubus Cosmo, Pacific Outdoor Equipment LTW Rear Fender panniers, 46L, 1903g. They are plenty big - wouldn't want larger. Any kind of saddle bag with velcro on the seatpost wears holes in my legs. Most rack bags have a similar problem for me, and I don't like the steering with much of a bar bag. Like the weight low with panniers. Probably don't need that large a set of panniers, really. POE's Small Fender panniers - 36L, 1588g with the Cosmo.

Those Sea to Summit compression bags are great. Volume can be a problem. I take more and thinner and lighter clothes than some, so a couple XS bags are great - one clean, one dirty. Tent and sleeping bag in one small or medium on the rack top.

Bmike, what bike is that? Details ( frame size, Gen hub, front light, bag brand and model,etc. ). Think you already gave bag details but it looks good as a road ready unit. Thanks.

Bmike, what bike is that? Details ( frame size, Gen hub, front light, bag brand and model,etc. ). Think you already gave bag details but it looks good as a road ready unit. Thanks.

Independent Fabrications Ti Club Racer
TA Carmina Crank 94 BCD double with 30/46 or 30/44 or 32/48 (or standard 'compact) - I have a collection of rings)
Campy 10 with 13-29 rear or 13-26 rear, carbon ergo levers
Shimano 'long reach' brakes
Nitto Noodle in 46cm
No braze ons for a rack, but I've used rear racks just fine.
Low rider mounts on the steel IF fork.
Size is custom, probably comparable to a 55.
Honjo narrow fenders with Conti 4 season 28s in that pic, but I'm running PB Cascadia's now as my Challenge tires and Pasela 28s don't fit under the Honjos.
Brooks Swallow with Ti rails (or a B17 with steel rails, depending...)

Bags are Epic, now Revelate Designs (http://www.revelatedesigns.com/index.cfm).

Good as a road ready and dirt road ready rando / long distance / everything bike.
SON generator, eDeluxe light front, Superflash rear

bmike, very purdy bike too!

I have friends who live quite close to the Vermont/Quebec border (20 mins by bike) and we ride into Vermont for day rides sometimes, up in the Berkshire area. Really pretty area to ride in, I love the ups and downs and all the nice views. Vermont has always impressed me with the riding possibilities, the conditions of the roads and how generally folks in cars are courteous to bikers.
I am always glad to have a triple however!

have a good weekend, here in Montreal its going to be close to freezing at night.

going to be cold. we are heading up into the green mountains south of middlebury. just an overnight, but 60 miles to get there from home.
last year we went out in november, slept in a lean to with no bivy or tent and it was down to 20 or so overnight. about the coldest i was comfortable going in my current bag.
not sure what gear we are taking just yet. may split the tent with my riding partner. he has a rear rack so we can strap the poles on. i'll carry the fabric in one of my bags.

i'm an hour and a half from montreal. love the city.

i'm an hour and a half from montreal. love the city.

yup. I came here 25 yrs ago to go to university, fell in love with the place and basically stayed.....
and yes I was pretty sure your frame was a ti, the more I notice them, the more I find their understated colour and look more and more classy. Not something in the immediate future for me but its always back there in my mind. (seeing your bike reminds me to put on my set of PB Casc, that are in the garage)

cheers

http://littlecirclesvt.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/IMG_1376.jpg

didn't make it to our camp location. riding partner was cooked from a week of work @ mile 35. we softpedaled back home instead of climbing up into the mountains.
good day out... aside from deciding to carry the 10 year old 8 pound tent.

freezing / sleeting rain this morning. almost glad we didn't make it to higher elevations on forest roads.

http://littlecirclesvt.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/IMG_1407.jpg