Bicycle Mechanics - Please help identify noise

Hi, so I picked up a nice old cannondale st400 the other day, pretty nice. Its all aluminum frame touring model that they made back in the 80's as far as I know. Its got shimano 600 components. Not bad for $50.

Well, I finally got some tires on her, and took it out today for a quick 20 mile ride, and throughout the ride, there was some sort of clicking/thud noise coming from the front end. It did it no matter whether I was coasting or pedaling. I tried to pinpoint it exactly, but all I can tell is that it is coming from the front. It seems to do this noise every few revolutions of the tire.

Another noise is that when ever my right foot goes through the pedal, there is some clicking noises there.

Does anyone know what these could be, or what I could look for. I know its hard to describe things over the internet, but this is the best I can describe them. Im very new to cycling, so Im not sure what these could be. The bike rode really nice though, and I averaged 18mph over those 20 miles, so Its pretty fast too.

Thanks

Maybe the headset is loose and that is the noise coming from the front end?

I bet the source of the clicking is the interface between the bottom bracket and the crank arms. If you remove the crank arms and then grease the square tapered interface and the bolts and then torque it to spec tightly. It should go away.

These are just my guesses though. Noises are a strange thing. It could sound like it is coming one area but in reality come from a completely different one.

Best advice is to take about the part you think is making noise, grease it really well and then make sure it is tight afterwards. Keep doing that until the noise stops.

The wheel bearings revolve slower than the wheel itself. Try swapping the wheel with another and see if the noise follows the wheel or the rest of the bike.

Noises that come at a specific crank position are particularly hard to diagnose remotely. Often they come from somewhere else on the bike but only occur when the bike is under a particular stress.

Does it have fenders on it? Often fenders will flex in and rub the tire and if they touch in the right sort of way they can stick and snap on you. If the sound is not tied to a once per wheel rev sort of thing then I'd suspect something like this or some other factor where something is occasionally touching something else that is moving and that is causing the thud sound.

Sorry I havent replied for awhile, works been real busy, and havent had much time to ride with the cold weather and rain.

Ive tried to pinpoint the noise locations a little more. The front noise might have been coming from the headset being loose. It was pretty loose, and I handtightened it as hard as i could get, and the noise is still there, but not as prevalent. Maybe I should tighten it down harder? I just wasnt sure on how tight it should be. I dont think my front wheel has bearings, my hub is a normandy luxe competition, and its just a sheath/axle setup i think, no bearings.

The other noise I described I think may be the chain rubbing on the front derailleur. It only does it it certain gears, I tried adjusting the derailleur some, but it seems like it always hits in at least 1 or 2 gears.

Other than that though, Im pretty happy with this bike so far. Does anyone else have any ideas what the front noise could be if its not the headset?
Thanks guys

Sorry I havent replied for awhile, works been real busy, and havent had much time to ride with the cold weather and rain.

Ive tried to pinpoint the noise locations a little more. The front noise might have been coming from the headset being loose. It was pretty loose, and I handtightened it as hard as i could get, and the noise is still there, but not as prevalent. Maybe I should tighten it down harder? I just wasnt sure on how tight it should be. I dont think my front wheel has bearings, my hub is a normandy luxe competition, and its just a sheath/axle setup i think, no bearings.

The other noise I described I think may be the chain rubbing on the front derailleur. It only does it it certain gears, I tried adjusting the derailleur some, but it seems like it always hits in at least 1 or 2 gears.

Other than that though, Im pretty happy with this bike so far. Does anyone else have any ideas what the front noise could be if its not the headset?
Thanks guys

Get a real headset tool for this job. handtightening will not get the job done. The torque required for threaded headset locknuts is one of the highest on a bicycle, next to the crank arm bolts and bottom bracket. (Note: I am not talking to the threaded top race or the part you tighten to adjust the bearings, I am talking about the uppermost lockring) There is no way you will get it tight enough by hand without using a 36 or 32mm headset wrench. You can use a big ass adjustable wrench if you don't have a headset wrench and adjust the top race bearing locknut by hand. It is common to not get the bearing adjusted right the first time you tighten the top locknut. Just loosen the bearing lockhut more and try tighting again and repeat if you have to. This adjustment is a whole lot easier with two headset wrenches. One low profile one for the bearing cup and a bigger beefier one for the locknut. Set the bearings so there is no play and then back off slightly, then tighten the two wrenches with opposing forces (toward each other), applying more torque on the locknut than the bearing cup. After that the headset shouldn't rattle loose.

There's no way your front wheel doesn't have bearings.

Only a handful of really cheap toddler's bikes use bushings for wheel bearings.

Yep you guys were right, there was a bunch of bearings when I took apart the front hub. 22 of them in total actually. I checked each one indivdually, checked the tract they run in, checked pretty much everything. The grease that was in there previously was very black and dirty, so I cleaned the entire hub and all components thoroughly, re-greased everything in there very good, put it all back together, and the mystery noise is still there.

I wish I could explain it better, it almost is sort of clunking noise, its not a grinding or scraping noise. I think it still may be something with the headset. I've never really messed with the headset before. the other day i tried tightening the locknut some, and almost crashed when I went to test it out because i couldnt steer. Now i'm trying to follow the instructions that 531phile posted, so hopefully that works.
Any other ideas?
Thanks for your help guys

Well the noise is still there after a complete cleaning and re-greasing of the entire headset/bearings. There was nothing in any of the tracts, and the grease was actually not even that dirty. Cleaned all the bearings individually, checked them all, and greased everything up real good.

The noise is definitely coming from the front end, and I noticed that it doesnt matter if I am pedaling or coasting down a hill, the noise is still there. It happens at complete random, with at least one knock/clunk occuring every 5 seconds. Any ideas? I really dont have the money to take it into a shop, so Im hoping i can fix it up on my own
Thanks

We don't have any way of knowing if you did the h/s or hub overhaul and adjustment correctly. Check the Park Tool and Sheldon Brown sites for the procedures, find a more knowledgable friend if you really can't afford to take it to a shop. At this point it should only be some sort of adjustment or tightening, should not cost much.

I followed the Park Tool's instructions for both the procedures. I'm quite confident that everything went right, i followed step by step, and double checked everything.

Then once again it needs someone in person to diagnose.

Is it possible that something on the frame or fork is cracked? As you pedal you may stress certain areas. Does it increase/decrease with speed? Does it make noise while coasting? If you stand up and mash down does it make a difference? Do bumps make a difference>

Another thought, Could it be spokes creaking?

Since there's 0 way of us helpin without having the bike in hand, I'll throw in somethin silly.

I had a low-speed thunk noise that happened at random on a bike as a kid, ended up being the reflector sliding up and down on the spokes.

Here are a few things to try:

Standing by the bike apply the front brake and then try rocking the bike back and forth. If you feel any "clunking" the headset has some sort of problem - adjustment or press-fit parts not fitting right.

Lift the bike off the ground a couple inches and let it drop. A well adjusted bike should make no clunking or deep rattling sounds.

Try a different wheel to see if the problem is still there.

Have a friend ride the bike, see if the noise is the same and if that person can tell where it's coming from.

Again, the best option is to have a knowledgable person look at it. If you take it to a bike shop and if they figure it out on looking at the bike before taking in I'm sure they won't keep it a secret in order to get your money.

Another possibility, although I think this wold have been resolved after you took it apart for the headset maintenance, is that the stem is creaking. Make sure the pinch bolt and all of the stem shaft points that fit within the fork have a thin layer of grease on them. Also grease the pinch bolt/nut for the handlebars. The grease allows it to tighten up more and not rust when you sweat all over it.

Being aluminum it could also be the seat post creaking in the frame (maybe even the seat) because sounds travel on a alu. bike more so than any other bikes I've owned. You could remove it and make sure that it has a small thin layer of grease on it also.

My creaks in the front on my ST400 always come from a loose headset but mine is a sealed cartridge unit....

Thanks for the replies guys, I've tried to diagnose it more, and had a friend come over who knows quite a bit more about bike mechanics than I do. We took apart the headset again, just to make sure I did it right, and everything looked good, and sure everything was greased up nicely, and put it all back together. Also checked the front hub, and again, that was good as well.

To answer some of your questions, the noise doesn't really seem to increase with speed, and it definitely doesnt do it any more/less if i go over bumps. I experimented this by riding around a perfectly flat parking lot, still made the noise every 5 or so seconds, and then riding it down a really bumpy sidewalk, and the noise happened at the same interval, maybe even a little bit less. It does the noise ever when coasting, and the noise doesnt seem to matter what crank position

We tried what cny-bikeman said, and held the front brake, and rocked the bike, but there was no rattling or clunking at all. Also did the drop test, and no abnormal noises either.

I'm really starting to think its the wheel itself. Maybe like bobn suggested, the spokes?