Singlespeed & Fixed Gear - The Everything Bike

I've been having trouble finding a SS/FG bike that meets my criteria, aside from the Raleigh One Way. I'm primarily looking for a frame with eyelets for fenders and horizontal dropouts so that I can easily change flats. What else is out there? I'd like to keep it under $500 if possible.

The Bianchi San Jose would be a great bike for me aside from its track for ends, plus the fact that they are now discontinued. I'm looking for an everything bike that I can use as my winter trainer and also commuter. I bought a road bike this year and thought I'd stop riding once it got cold outside, but I've absolutely fallen in love with the sport. A steel frame with comfy geometry and the ability to take wider tires are other things I'm looking for in addition to what I mentioned above.

Thanks for your help.

http://surlybikes.com/frames/cross_check_frame/
http://surlybikes.com/frames/cross_check_frame/
http://surlybikes.com/frames/cross_check_frame/
http://surlybikes.com/frames/cross_check_frame/
http://surlybikes.com/frames/cross_check_frame/
http://surlybikes.com/frames/cross_check_frame/
http://surlybikes.com/frames/cross_check_frame/

Here's what I did to mount fenders on my Steamroller (with track ends); I got a set of SKS P45s, and mounted the front one without the included plastic quick release pieces at the bottom of the fender stays. I just used bolts and p-clamps to attach the fender stays to the fork. I saved the plastic pieces for the bottom of the rear fender stays. Mounted those to p-clamps and then attached the fenders to the quick release pieces. Everything was plenty sturdy, and to get the rear wheel out, I just popped the fender out of the quick release pieces to give it enough wiggle room to get the wheel out. Pretty simple and worked great.

Also, the Cross-check will do everything you need it to. Outside your budget though (I assume you meant 500 for a complete bike). However, if you're going to run it single speed, I suppose you could buy the complete and sell the shifters and derailleurs to make a little money back, then just use spacers and a cog on the freehub (no fixed option this way).

I'd like to have a flip flop hub so that I can try both SS and FG. The Cross Check is a good recommendation, but I'd like a complete SS/FG bike instead of going through the buy/sell/build hassle. Main reason I wanted to keep things cheap is so that I can lock it up and beat it up without worrying too much. There don't seem to be too many used Surlys in my area unfortunately.

If you don't mind track ends, the Fantom Cross Uno has rack mounts, cantis, and fits wide tires....

If you can deal with track ends.

http://www.voodoocycles.net/nakisi.htm

And if you must have horizontal dropouts

http://salsacycles.com/bikes/casseroll/

Why not track ends? The Fantom Cross Uno is a good recommendation if you're tied to the $500 budget. But really, when I read the OP, I, just like others, immediately thought of a cross check. It's the do-it-all frame of choice, and includes the flexibility of readily going geared when the time comes. It pretty much exactly matches the criteria you described apart from price point, and you'd probably be well-put to save up for one.

Most bikes that come with track ends do it for style. They are a less good system, a trowback from the olden days. But since people think the want a "track" bike, manufacturers put track ends on the bikes for them. They are useless unless you need them for your time trial bike, or are racing on a velodrome. Horizontal drop outs are the better system, which is why they were the most common, until an even better one came along(vertical drop outs).

The problem with most modern frames with horizontal dropouts such as the Surly Crosscheck or Salsa Casseroll is that rear dropout spacing is 130mm or more to permit use of gears, thus limiting the choice of SSFG wheelsets. Although you can often space a ssfg wheel hub from 120mm to 130mm, this puts additional bending stress on the axle that can be an issue if you have heavy loads on the rear of the bike. There are plenty of "track" framesets spaced at 120mm with ample room for fenders and large tires, as well as mounts for fenders and racks. I have a Kilo TT, and the only complaint I have is that it lacks separate fender and rack mounts in the rear.

Most bikes that come with track ends do it for style. They are a less good system, a trowback from the olden days. But since people think the want a "track" bike, manufacturers put track ends on the bikes for them. They are useless unless you need them for your time trial bike, or are racing on a velodrome. Horizontal drop outs are the better system, which is why they were the most common, until an even better one came along(vertical drop outs).

You are wrong in so many ways.

Its pretty dumb that the OP doesnt want horizontal drops. Carry a 15mm wrench with you. The one I carry has a tire lever one one side and a 15 on the other. Problem solved

The problem with most modern frames with horizontal dropouts such as the Surly Crosscheck or Salsa Casseroll is that rear dropout spacing is 130mm or more to permit use of gears, thus limiting the choice of SSFG wheelsets. Although you can often space a ssfg wheel hub from 120mm to 130mm, this puts additional bending stress on the axle that can be an issue if you have heavy loads on the rear of the bike.

Good grief..an extra 5mm of spaces on either side isn't going to harm anything. When bolted down, the spacers take much of the bending forces away from the axle. I have wheels with a lot more spacers than that, and old freewheel hubs use a lot more spacers than that on the drive side. Besides, you don't even need to space it out the full 5mm on either side. Space it out ~3mm in either direction and close the gap when you tighten the track nuts.

You guys now have me reconsidering track ends, particularly given how much more common they are. From what I've read though, if I install fenders on a bike with track fork ends, then changing a flat out on the road is pretty much impossible unless I bring all my tools and remove the fenders each time I want to take off the wheel, correct?

In choosing your frame, I wouldn't give too much priority to horizontal dropouts over track ends. It doesn't really make a huge difference if the frame has horizontal dropouts or track ends. You can easily get your wheel out with either, unless you chain is too short (trackend problem) or if your tire is too big (horizontal dropout problem). Fenders aren't a problem with track ends if you set the fender up properly. Set the fender up so there is enough clearance in the back to pull out the wheel. I've never had a problem fixing a flat with track ends and fenders. If the fender is set too close, you should be able to get the wheel back on by reinstalling it before you reinflate the tire. Most fenders are pretty flexy anyway, especially the plastic ones (e.g. Planet Bike), so no matter how much clearance you really have, its still possible to get the wheel off and on.

It will make finding the perfect bike that much easier.

It really depends on how tightly the fender "hugs" the tire at the furthest point back. Yes it will probably be more of a hassle. But having all the air out of the tire, it might be a tight squeeze, or else you will have to partly remove the fender.

In choosing your frame, I wouldn't give too much priority to horizontal dropouts. It doesn't really make a huge difference if the frame has horizontal dropouts or track ends. You can easily get your wheel out with either, unless you chain is too short (trackend problem) or if your tire is too bike (horizontal dropout problem). Fenders aren't a problem with track ends if you set the fender up properly, with enough clearance in the back to pull out the tires. How often you do need to remove your wheel from the frame anyway?

By horizontal, I meant track ends. If your chain is too tight to remove the wheel, pop it off the chainring.

You are wrong in so many ways.

Its pretty dumb that the OP doesnt want horizontal drops. Carry a 15mm wrench with you. The one I carry has a tire lever one one side and a 15 on the other. Problem solved

Get off the drugs.

You guys now have me reconsidering track ends, particularly given how much more common they are. From what I've read though, if I install fenders on a bike with track fork ends, then changing a flat out on the road is pretty much impossible unless I bring all my tools and remove the fenders each time I want to take off the wheel, correct?
yes.
unless u have non-full fenders, clip ons, or those easily removed ones like planet bike speed ez

Get off the drugs.

Please explain.

yes.
unless u have non-full fenders, clip ons, or those easily removed ones like planet bike speed ez

Avoid those fenders like the plague, at least the MTB versions. I have a pair and they are the most unstable fenders I have ever used. They rattle around and rub the tire with even the tiniest bump. Even standing and pedaling causes them to get caught on the knobs of my winter tires. They bike is unrideable with those fenders.

If you need removable fenders, get the PB clipons...they are way better than the speedEZ fenders. Of course the better option would be any full fender that is actually bolted on.

You guys now have me reconsidering track ends, particularly given how much more common they are. From what I've read though, if I install fenders on a bike with track fork ends, then changing a flat out on the road is pretty much impossible unless I bring all my tools and remove the fenders each time I want to take off the wheel, correct?

Undoing two rear bolts/screws on the fender takes me about 15 seconds... That should give you enough room to pull the wheel to the back of the track ends (if you have plastic fenders).

Please explain.

Your post indicates you didn't read carefully and/or are confusing terminology. Also your suggestion to carry around a 15mm wrench is irrelevant to the issue. It makes no difference if the dropouts are horizontal or trackends. You still have to carry around a 15mm wrench if your wheel is bolted on.

Thought he didn't want horizontal drops. My bad

Also track drops are horizontal, but he wants the kind where the wheel slides forward. I thought he wanted vertical drops.

OP, I think the Redline 925 is the kind of bike you're looking for: super commuter-friendly singlespeed.
1) Has flip-flop hub and comes with both singlespeed and fixed cogs (unlike bikesdirect, which usually only comes with one)
2) Comes with fenders (planetbike) and a chainguard
3) Has wide tire clearance (28mm stock)
4) Has eyelets for mounting racks and stuff
5) steel frame, relaxed-ish geo (sloping top tube! *gasp*)

I own the '09 version and got it used for ~$300, but the MSRP is either $500 or $600, if you go looking for a new one.


You guys now have me reconsidering track ends, particularly given how much more common they are. From what I've read though, if I install fenders on a bike with track fork ends, then changing a flat out on the road is pretty much impossible unless I bring all my tools and remove the fenders each time I want to take off the wheel, correct?
No, you do not need to remove the fenders to take off the back tire.

Hope that helps!

Undoing two rear bolts/screws on the fender takes me about 15 seconds... That should give you enough room to pull the wheel to the back of the track ends (if you have plastic fenders).

Even better, buy a set of SKS fenders and a second set of quick releases for the rear fender. Viz:

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y18/CalOso/DSC02429.jpg

Even better, buy a set of SKS fenders and a second set of quick releases for the rear fender. Viz:

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y18/CalOso/DSC02429.jpg

Good suggestion...I had no idea they even made fenders like that! Do you have a link to the specific product and more pics of the fenders on your bike?

Thanks. Here's a picture of the whole bike.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y18/CalOso/trek660002.jpg


Yes, here's a link to the fenders themselves (http://www.universalcycles.com/shopping/product_details.php?id=7881&category=78). They come with a quick release for the front fender for safety. And here's a link for parts (http://www.universalcycles.com/shopping/product_details.php?id=23264&category=1794). If you get a second set of quick releases, it should be no problem to pop them off.

My bike (89 Trek 660) doesn't have any fender bosses, but that's solved easily enough with p-clips.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y18/CalOso/DSC02430.jpg

Thanks. Here's a picture of the whole bike.

Yes, here's a link to the fenders themselves (http://www.universalcycles.com/shopping/product_details.php?id=7881&category=78). They come with a quick release for the front fender for safety. And here's a link for parts (http://www.universalcycles.com/shopping/product_details.php?id=23264&category=1794). If you get a second set of quick releases, it should be no problem to pop them off.

My bike (89 Trek 660) doesn't have any fender bosses, but that's solved easily enough with p-clips.



Very helpful post, and a nice bike to boot! Looks like I have a ton more bikes to choose from now that there's a way to mount full fenders without eyelets.

lugged dropouts. win.

I have a Pake C'mute paired with a Surly Long Haul Trucker fork. It's really great.

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash2/hs444.ash2/71755_135756413141579_100001216638712_219577_3058442_n.jpg

My only complaint is that somehow the seattube bottle bosses are a little off axis, so I'll just put a Pedro's tool there or something.

maybe it's to aid in getting a bottle out to the side? or honest mistake, but i can see why someone would want their bottle ever so slightly to one side.

Thanks. Here's a picture of the whole bike.


Yes, here's a link to the fenders themselves (http://www.universalcycles.com/shopping/product_details.php?id=7881&category=78). They come with a quick release for the front fender for safety. And here's a link for parts (http://www.universalcycles.com/shopping/product_details.php?id=23264&category=1794). If you get a second set of quick releases, it should be no problem to pop them off.

My bike (89 Trek 660) doesn't have any fender bosses, but that's solved easily enough with p-clips.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y18/CalOso/DSC02430.jpg

You could also do something like this but use a longer bolt that starts from the inside and a wingnut on the outside. If you need to take the fender off to remove the wheel just unscrew the wingnut

I have a Pake C'mute paired with a Surly Long Haul Trucker fork. It's really great.

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash2/hs444.ash2/71755_135756413141579_100001216638712_219577_3058442_n.jpg

My only complaint is that somehow the seattube bottle bosses are a little off axis, so I'll just put a Pedro's tool there or something.

I nearly bought a C'mute last winter. I'm glad you like it.

Very helpful post, and a nice bike to boot! Looks like I have a ton more bikes to choose from now that there's a way to mount full fenders without eyelets.

Keep in mind that not all frames leave clearance for fenders, so while it is possible to mount fenders without eyelets, that does not mean you will be able to fit the fenders between the tires and the frame/fork. Many frames will work with fenders, but only with the narrowest of tires. Its better to have lots of tire choices. Also, don't assume that just because a bike has fender eyelets there is actually clearance for fenders. I've seen numerous bikes that have fender eyelets on the frame and fork, but barely any clearance for fenders. Before you buy the frame, be sure it will work with fenders and the tire size of your choice.

Fenders also increase the amount of toe overlap, so you should avoid really steep head tube frames. The Kilo WT (http://www.bikesdirect.com/products/mercier/kilott_wt.htm) is a good example of bad design. Its built with eyelets and plenty of clearance and it seems to be intended as a do-it-all bike, but the unnecessarily steep geometry (which is intended to conform to a fad, not function) is going to result in excessive toe-fender overlap for most people. Toe-fender overlap is dangerous because its possible for the fender to kep swept up by the tire, forcing it through the fork and sending you over the bars. I've seen it happen.

http://surlybikes.com/frames/cross_check_frame/
http://surlybikes.com/frames/cross_check_frame/
http://surlybikes.com/frames/cross_check_frame/
http://surlybikes.com/frames/cross_check_frame/
http://surlybikes.com/frames/cross_check_frame/
http://surlybikes.com/frames/cross_check_frame/
http://surlybikes.com/frames/cross_check_frame/

Fess up. Who clicked every single link above?

Keep in mind that not all frames leave clearance for fenders, so while it is possible to mount fenders without eyelets, that does not mean you will be able to fit the fenders between the tires and the frame/fork. Many frames will work with fenders, but only with the narrowest of tires. Its better to have lots of tire choices. Also, don't assume that just because a bike has fender eyelets there is actually clearance for fenders. I've seen numerous bikes that have fender eyelets on the frame and fork, but barely any clearance for fenders. Before you buy the frame, be sure it will work with fenders and the tire size of your choice.

Fenders also increase the amount of toe overlap, so you should avoid really steep head tube frames. The Kilo WT (http://www.bikesdirect.com/products/mercier/kilott_wt.htm) is a good example of bad design. Its built with eyelets and plenty of clearance and it seems to be intended as a do-it-all bike, but the unnecessarily steep geometry (which is intended to conform to a fad, not function) is going to result in excessive toe-fender overlap for most people. Toe-fender overlap is dangerous because its possible for the fender to kep swept up by the tire, forcing it through the fork and sending you over the bars. I've seen it happen.

These are good points. And points out some of the drawbacks of my bike. The 660 is more of a crit bike and I have toe-lap issues. In the summer it's really not much of a problem, but I have knocked the fender off with my toe in the winter (hence the quick releases of the SKS fenders). And the biggest tire I can use with fenders is 25 mm. (28mm without)

Keep in mind that not all frames leave clearance for fenders, so while it is possible to mount fenders without eyelets, that does not mean you will be able to fit the fenders between the tires and the frame/fork. Many frames will work with fenders, but only with the narrowest of tires. Its better to have lots of tire choices. Also, don't assume that just because a bike has fender eyelets there is actually clearance for fenders. I've seen numerous bikes that have fender eyelets on the frame and fork, but barely any clearance for fenders. Before you buy the frame, be sure it will work with fenders and the tire size of your choice.

Fenders also increase the amount of toe overlap, so you should avoid really steep head tube frames. The Kilo WT (http://www.bikesdirect.com/products/mercier/kilott_wt.htm) is a good example of bad design. Its built with eyelets and plenty of clearance and it seems to be intended as a do-it-all bike, but the unnecessarily steep geometry (which is intended to conform to a fad, not function) is going to result in excessive toe-fender overlap for most people. Toe-fender overlap is dangerous because its possible for the fender to kep swept up by the tire, forcing it through the fork and sending you over the bars. I've seen it happen.

I have the same geometry gripe with the otherwise well spec'd BD bikes. The WT, WT5, and Uno all seem fairly well designed for commuting/utility, but the ridiculously tight geometries makes me think somebody just lifted them from the trendy track models because they couldn't be bothered to come up with more sensible numbers. I can't imagine riding them more than a couple of miles and/or remotely loaded down.

I'm not exactly clear on how toe overlap with fenders is supposed to yield an endo. If you're going fast enough to flip over the bars, how can you turn the bars far enough for it to matter?

whatever man, vintage treks are sooooooo sexy.
I need to get some clips like that.

I'm not exactly clear on how toe overlap with fenders is supposed to yield an endo. If you're going fast enough to flip over the bars, how can you turn the bars far enough for it to matter?

Having your front wheel lock up, even at 5-7 mph can be fairly dramatic if you aren't expecting it.

You could also do something like this but use a longer bolt that starts from the inside and a wingnut on the outside. If you need to take the fender off to remove the wheel just unscrew the wingnut

I've done that with coaster brake reaction arms. It works, but only if you use a thumbscrew-type bolt along with the wing nut.

Surly Crosscheck (got 2 of them cuz it's so dern great)
Mercier WT

Both great bikes and got what you're looking for. I'm being biased though since I own them :P

Fenders also increase the amount of toe overlap, so you should avoid really steep head tube frames. The Kilo WT (http://www.bikesdirect.com/products/mercier/kilott_wt.htm) is a good example of bad design. Its built with eyelets and plenty of clearance and it seems to be intended as a do-it-all bike, but the unnecessarily steep geometry (which is intended to conform to a fad, not function) is going to result in excessive toe-fender overlap for most people. Toe-fender overlap is dangerous because its possible for the fender to kep swept up by the tire, forcing it through the fork and sending you over the bars. I've seen it happen.

The Kilo WT geometry is a carbon copy of the Surly Steamroller, so you can blame Surly for "bad design." I've had numerous bikes over the years which had toe to front fender overlap and have never managed to lock up the front wheel, nor can I quite imagine how this could happen. If you really care about massive clearance for large tires and fenders, then just get an old rigid frame MTB with 26" wheels.

Very helpful post, and a nice bike to boot! Looks like I have a ton more bikes to choose from now that there's a way to mount full fenders without eyelets.


I suggested this in the very first post in this thread. Makes changing a tire with fenders on your track drops very easy.

I have a Bianchi San Jose. Its set up as a singlespeed monstercross townie.

Sweet ride!

I suggested this in the very first post in this thread. Makes changing a tire with fenders on your track drops very easy.

My ignorance prevented me from fully understanding your post until I saw pictures. It all makes sense now :thumb:

I've done that with coaster brake reaction arms. It works, but only if you use a thumbscrew-type bolt along with the wing nut.

When I used this method I had another nut holding the bolt to the eyelet/pclamp so it wouldn't spin and then a wingnut on the very outside

When I used this method I had another nut holding the bolt to the eyelet/pclamp so it wouldn't spin and then a wingnut on the very outside

That's a good idea, if you have room for the extra nut.

My LBS has a Masi Speciale Commuter on clearance for $630. It seems like a very versatile bike, with room for fenders and a horizontal drop out. Plus, despite not having canti-brakes, it's able to fit 32c tires. Are there any downsides to this bike that I'm missing?

My LBS has a Masi Speciale Commuter on clearance for $630. It seems like a very versatile bike, with room for fenders and a horizontal drop out. Plus, despite not having canti-brakes, it's able to fit 32c tires. Are there any downsides to this bike that I'm missing?

32 mm is decent but still potentially limiting depending on how/where you plan to ride. It's sometimes practical and/or insanely fun to ride 35 or 37 mm widths and up. But maybe it can go even higher than 32? Regardless, the bike is well thought out feature- and geometry-wise, and you can actually try it out at your LBS to see how you like it. fwiw, Google shopping turns up the 2010 model for ~$500 shipped, which may be worth mentioning to the lbs.

this is probably too late.. but i have a bianchi san jose and i would recommend it for you. it comes with 32c tires, but definitely has room for bigger tires. i am using 25s though. it also comes with a single speed only rear wheel, however i upgraded to a fixed/free wheelset. there are bosses for two bottle cages, fender eyelets, front/rear rack mounts, canti brakes, and the geometry is somewhat relaxed. i'd say it's quite versatile.