Living Car Free - tp

very trivial question, but toilet paper wastes a lot of volume in your carrying capacity for groceries. do most car free people only by one roll of tp per week or do they still buy big packages (4-16) every few weeks/months

Anything that doesn't spoil, I buy the largest size as I can, tp, laundry soap, dish soap, ect... Between the Xtracycle and the trailer, not an issue getting it home.

TP isn't heavy. So even without a cargo bike, it's easy enough to throw on top and bungie down.

You people still use toilet paper??? :eek: So ungreen and uncool!!

Try plant leaves, and compost 'em when you're done. I have a broad-leafed house plant growing right in the bathroom. TP-free!!!!!
















:D

You people still use toilet paper??? :eek:

We switched over to a Japanese washlet a couple of years ago. I don't use TP at all any more except if I have to blow my nose. It conserves water too - needs only one flush per, er, sitting. Electric deodorizing. Self cleaning. Wireless remote, too. Technology even a Luddite can like.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/6642907/The-weird-and-wonderful-world-of-the-Japanese-Washlet.html


To the right of the Washlet there is usually a remote control mounted on the wall which is decorated in complex Japanese characters. If you can`t read Japanese this can often be the most entertaining part of the lavatory experience, with each button press leading to some new, unknown function of the lavatory. However, a word of warning: don't press every button...

Platy, I read the linked article. No idea how that would solve my problem. Self cleaning? Electric deodorizing. It didn't happen w/o pics. :)

I was just reading an article on Grist about pee rags (http://www.grist.org/article/2010-06-11-ask-umbra-pee-rag-toilet-paper-water-bidets).

I understand that in the part of Canada I grew up in, sphagnum moss was very popular pre WWII.

I used to work on foreign fishing vessels in Canadian waters in the 1980s. Pravda, the official newspaper, was very popular among crew members, although I used to bring my own Canadian stash.

Right now, I just back up the trailer to Sam's Club and load up.

We switched over to a Japanese washlet a couple of years ago. I don't use TP at all any more except if I have to blow my nose. It conserves water too - needs only one flush per, er, sitting. Electric deodorizing. Self cleaning. Wireless remote, too. Technology even a Luddite can like.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/6642907/The-weird-and-wonderful-world-of-the-Japanese-Washlet.html

We use the recycled stuff and cloth handkerchiefs for blowing our noses.

Platy, I read the linked article. No idea how that would solve my problem. Self cleaning? Electric deodorizing. It didn't happen w/o pics. :)

Three Seashells

Um... they used handfuls of wadded paper back in the 20th...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rBI8uCKi2lI

'Depends on what socks I'm wearing at the time.

One of my friends order paper towels and tissue paper on Amazon (free shipping with Prime)...

One of my friends order paper towels and tissue paper on Amazon (free shipping with Prime)...

Ridiculously inefficient way of getting it, but convenient I suppose.

I usually just called around and found out when someone was planning a run to Fred Meyer (Wal-mart or the PNW) or Costco. I didn't need to go more than a few times a year for bulk non-perishables. Soap, TP/PT, olive oil, canned stuff, etc. At least in the PNW people are pretty receptive to carpooling places. It gives them a warm-fuzzy feeling, a cup of free coffee or a beer or two, and the chance to rib you about not having a car.

TP isn't heavy. So even without a cargo bike, it's easy enough to throw on top and bungie down.

That is what I do...

We buy the mega bundles when they are on sale. Interesting side story, my FIL was worried about Y2K and stocked up on TP, said he made too many trips to the outhouse as a kid and had to use the pages of the Sears catalog and that he was damned sure not going to run out of TP. Took him nearly 2 years to work through his back stock. :D

Aaron :)

very trivial question, but toilet paper wastes a lot of volume in your carrying capacity for groceries. do most car free people only by one roll of tp per week or do they still buy big packages (4-16) every few weeks/months

You use one roll a week!?!?!?!?!?

I buy four packs of TP at the neighborhood grocery store across the street from my house. Its a bit more expensive but then I don't have to haul it all the way home. Who cares? Just pay a little more to buy the bulky stuff at a store closer to home.

Seriously though, how many rolls do you use in a month? I use about a roll every 2-3 months and thats if I am eating a LOT of meat! ;)

Seriously though, how many rolls do you use in a month? I use about a roll every 2-3 months and thats if I am eating a LOT of meat! ;)
That's an interesting statistic. Without getting too specific, my own usage is much higher.

You use one roll a week!?!?!?!?!?

I buy four packs of TP at the neighborhood grocery store across the street from my house. Its a bit more expensive but then I don't have to haul it all the way home. Who cares? Just pay a little more to buy the bulky stuff at a store closer to home.

Seriously though, how many rolls do you use in a month? I use about a roll every 2-3 months and thats if I am eating a LOT of meat! ;)

Four rolls a year? Nasty.

Four rolls a year? Nasty.

I guess I just don't spend as much time at home as some of you. That, or You guys are using half a roll each time you wipe! ;)

A lot depends on the kind of tissue you are using. Bargain basement TP is often not very dense. I buy a generic brand of Scotts tissue so the rolls are very dense and last a long time. I understand that some people like the soft fluffy stuff but I guess my colon is just not that delicate.

I use my left hand mostly, but when I do give in and buy toilet paper I throw it in my messenger bag. Most of the time I just steal it from public rest rooms.

I'm fortunate to live relatively close to the stores where I'll buy toilet paper, so it's no problem to carry it while I'm riding home. Strapping it to the rack and panniers could work too, as long as you don't use too much tension to hold it down.

We switched over to a Japanese washlet a couple of years ago. I don't use TP at all any more except if I have to blow my nose. It conserves water too - needs only one flush per, er, sitting. Electric deodorizing. Self cleaning. Wireless remote, too. Technology even a Luddite can like.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/6642907/The-weird-and-wonderful-world-of-the-Japanese-Washlet.html

We looked into those a few years ago. They were quite pricey, so we put off the changeover. Besides, I would have to argue with the city building department to get them to allow me to install it. There is a cheap Indian product that basically sprays your behind with cold water. Since our cold water is 45F, that would make for a stimulating experience.

I buy the 4-pack or the 6-pack, put it in a bag and tie the bag to my handle bars, or to a clip on my backpack. Or I go shopping with my son and his family in their minivan, and buy the big pack.

I think that I don't really save much money by buying the huge pack of toilet paper (especially zeppinger). I save more by riding my bike instead of taking a car or bus to the grocery store.

Strapping it to the rack and panniers could work too, as long as you don't use too much tension to hold it down.

Why? If it gets smooshed will it not wipe your corn hole anymore? I don't get it... its not a baguette its toilet paper.

One roll of 1000 sheet Scott lasts me almost a year. Of course I work 6 days a week and always go at work. There's probably only a 33% chance that I'll drop my Sunday deuce at home. YMMV. It always blows me away how much TP gets used up when I'm living with a girl! I swear it seems like about a roll a day sometimes.

Why? If it gets smooshed will it not wipe your corn hole anymore? I don't get it... its not a baguette its toilet paper.

I'm with you, bro'. Why do people insist upon multi-ply, fluffy luxury toilet papers that require virgin fibers instead of using the recycled stuff? How soft does it have to be? I mean, you're only using it for a few seconds a day.

Why? If it gets smooshed will it not wipe your corn hole anymore? I don't get it... its not a baguette its toilet paper.+1, some brands are actually sold compressed to save space and packing material.

--J

We looked into those [washlets] a few years ago. They were quite pricey, so we put off the changeover. Besides, I would have to argue with the city building department to get them to allow me to install it. There is a cheap Indian product that basically sprays your behind with cold water. Since our cold water is 45F, that would make for a stimulating experience.

I had the same issues a few years ago when I started the changeover. My first install was a cheap (<$200) non-electric add-on gadget called a Biffy. I still have it in my second bathroom. The version I use has a reservoir tank that warms the water to room temperature. My amateur hookup worked fine, but of course any plumber could install it in 15 minutes with 100% success guaranteed. After it's installed, you just pull the lever to activate the water jet. It takes a little practice to get the positioning right. You still need a square or two of TP to finish the job, and it has no deodorizing.

My partner started out by saying she'd never ever use the Biffy. But when we moved a couple of years later it was the first thing she wanted installed in the new house. That was the point when I figured it was okay to get the full up washlet. We did it to code, it was a spendy project that needed an electrician and a plumber. I was surprised to find that the plumber was familiar with washlets and had been installing quite a few around town.

Right now the cost and the weirdness factor is comparable to an early personal computer in the mid 1970s.

I just buy a 4-pack of Scott. Lasts us (a male & a female) about a month. Volume is no big deal. Since I don't use gasoline to get to the grocery store, only self-power, it does not matter how many trips I need to make in a week. In fact, I look for excuses to ride my bike to the store. The exercise does me good.

No big deal to buy a 12, 16, or 24 pack. Loosely bungee it to the rack and it does not take up any pannier space. If you're doing a massive shop you may have something already in that spot but really unless you are super far from any stores no need to do a "survival" shop. The nice thing about a bicycle is its super easy to pop in some place on the way home from work to pick up something. No trolling around for a parking spot, you can ride right up to the door, go in buy what you need and be on your way. Also if you are buying a big pack you don't need to buy it very often so if you rotate you needed big grocery items it all balances out.

No big deal to buy a 12, 16, or 24 pack. Loosely bungee it to the rack and it does not take up any pannier space. If you're doing a massive shop you may have something already in that spot but really unless you are super far from any stores no need to do a "survival" shop. The nice thing about a bicycle is its super easy to pop in some place on the way home from work to pick up something. No trolling around for a parking spot, you can ride right up to the door, go in buy what you need and be on your way. Also if you are buying a big pack you don't need to buy it very often so if you rotate you needed big grocery items it all balances out.

Yes... the issue of transporting toilet tissue on a bicycle is really a non-issue... although I would hate to have to travel to a remote island or something :) (Perhaps my spagnum moss suggestion in #6 might be the answer there :))

Why? If it gets smooshed will it not wipe your corn hole anymore? I don't get it... its not a baguette its toilet paper.
Call it force of habit or a matter of aesthetics. It's nothing more or less complicated than that. For the last several years, since I returned to using the bike as my primary transportation, I've been using loose tension to hold a package of toilet paper to the rack. If you've got a different method, that's great.

when I go to the grocery store, volume is a fairly important consideration. I just buy 1-2 rolls at a time, and put them in my panniers. It's probably not the most economical way to do it, but TP isn't a major part of my monthly budget, so I don't mind.

BTW, why the concern over toilet paper? I would think many other things, like dog food, books, or outboard motors would be bigger worries...

BTW, why the concern over toilet paper? I would think many other things, like dog food, books, or outboard motors would be bigger worries...
Books are easy enough to transport in a backpack or panniers.

I don't have a dog so I haven't had to transport dog food. However, I have on several occasions hauled 10-kilogram bags of rice, sugar, flour or potatoes. The first two transport easily and can be strapped to the rear rack. Flour is a little trickier as the bags are not as robust as for sugar. I don't want to have an exploded bag of flour on the road. A bag of potatoes can also be strapped to the rear rack, but even though potatoes are sturdy, they are not indestructible and they can bruise. Ride carefully.

Any of these items can also go into a backpack, but 10 kilograms is a lot of weight to carry on one's back.

As for an outboard motor, I haven't tried to haul one yet. The bulkiest load I've carried was an iMac computer with a 15-inch CRT monitor. I had it in a hockey equipment bag on my back. I was glad when I reached my destination and could drop it off.

when I go to the grocery store, volume is a fairly important consideration. I just buy 1-2 rolls at a time, and put them in my panniers. It's probably not the most economical way to do it, but TP isn't a major part of my monthly budget, so I don't mind.

BTW, why the concern over toilet paper? I would think many other things, like dog food, books, or outboard motors would be bigger worries...

My method for fighting volume is to take a lot of the stuff out of their boxes before I put them on the bike or in the panniers. A lot of food comes with totally unnecessary packaging that your just going to throw away when you get home. I take that stuff out in the grocery store parking lot and throw it away there. You will be surprised how much room it makes!

My method for fighting volume is to take a lot of the stuff out of their boxes before I put them on the bike or in the panniers. A lot of food comes with totally unnecessary packaging that your just going to throw away when you get home. I take that stuff out in the grocery store parking lot and throw it away there. You will be surprised how much room it makes!

How true! So much unnecessary packaging! But why not recycle instead of just throwing it all away? Aren't there recycling bins in Korea?

How true! So much unnecessary packaging! But why not recycle instead of just throwing it all away? Aren't there recycling bins in Korea?

There are hardly any garbage bins in public spaces let alone recycle bins. However, everyone recycles at home and the trash that is swept up off the street is sorted and recycled. Its like institutionalized littering. All organics are composted almost religiously. For whatever reason glass bottles of beer cost less than a tin can of beer.

My method for fighting volume is to take a lot of the stuff out of their boxes before I put them on the bike or in the panniers. A lot of food comes with totally unnecessary packaging that your just going to throw away when you get home. I take that stuff out in the grocery store parking lot and throw it away there. You will be surprised how much room it makes!
I notice the excess packaging with a lot of non-food items. I think part of it is to deter theft by creating bulky packaging. For food, I don't notice it to the same degree, at least not with a lot of the groceries I'm buying. Also, at our local bulk food store, I get a discount if I bring in my own containers to refill rather than using the plastic bags in the store for the individual items.

very trivial question, but toilet paper wastes a lot of volume in your carrying capacity for groceries. do most car free people only by one roll of tp per week or do they still buy big packages (4-16) every few weeks/months

I solved this problem with ease. I subscribe to regular home delivery of TP, paper towles etc. from Amazon. By subscribing I also get a lower price on all items in the subscription!!

Three Seashells

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rBI8uCKi2lI

That totally was my first thought too :)

sorry if this was too lewd, but funny, interesting responses! and really, this are the minor things you run into, that you don't have to plan for as much before you stop relying on cars.

i'll go with the 1 per week thing. or 4 pack on rotation. i'll see if i can find the smooshed versions that some have spoken of. i could even create my own smooshed ones outside the store, but i already take a long time pack when i leave grocery store, don't want to add much more to my list of things to do.

amazon or web order is tempting, but seems counterproductive to trying to minimize packaging that i aim for as well. a decent argument could be made for huge amazon order occasionally though.

---

oh and yes, i agree that the real answer is away from tp with regards to that debate. i'm not ready for that yet though

My method for fighting volume is to take a lot of the stuff out of their boxes before I put them on the bike or in the panniers. A lot of food comes with totally unnecessary packaging that your just going to throw away when you get home. I take that stuff out in the grocery store parking lot and throw it away there. You will be surprised how much room it makes!

That is an excellent idea; thanks! (As with many other good ideas, it seems so obvious now...)

My method for fighting volume is to take a lot of the stuff out of their boxes before I put them on the bike or in the panniers. A lot of food comes with totally unnecessary packaging that your just going to throw away when you get home. I take that stuff out in the grocery store parking lot and throw it away there. You will be surprised how much room it makes!

Even better is to give the packaging to the grocery store manager with an explanation of why you are leaving it there - overpackaged, so that he/she in turn can put pressure on the suppliers to reduce the packaging, or choose alternate suppliers that create less unnecessary packaging.

But sometimes its a matter of reshape an item too - so I may buy a case of 12 bottles of beer, unload the bottles individually into the panniers. Then the cardboard folds up small to take home to recycle.

Have a Bike trailer? , big Costco packs of 36 last bachelor guys a few years..

the common female use to dry self after urinating increases consumption.

I notice the excess packaging with a lot of non-food items. I think part of it is to deter theft by creating bulky packaging. For food, I don't notice it to the same degree, at least not with a lot of the groceries I'm buying. Also, at our local bulk food store, I get a discount if I bring in my own containers to refill rather than using the plastic bags in the store for the individual items.


I doubt the extra packaging is there to deter thieves. I think it has more to do with its ability to take up large amounts of shelf space. This essentially makes for bigger advertising in the store. The bigger the box, the bigger the brand name can be. Customers might also feel like they are getting more for their money when it comes in a big box. Remember that producers of products don't care if they get stolen because it will the be retailers loss, not he producers.

I doubt the extra packaging is there to deter thieves. I think it has more to do with its ability to take up large amounts of shelf space. This essentially makes for bigger advertising in the store. The bigger the box, the bigger the brand name can be. Customers might also feel like they are getting more for their money when it comes in a big box. Remember that producers of products don't care if they get stolen because it will the be retailers loss, not he producers.

I look at how much plastic packaging is used for screwdrivers or wrenches at the hardware stores, or how much is used for a number of electronic items. These things would be so easy to swipe otherwise.

What food items are you thinking about when you mention overpackaged food?

I look at how much plastic packaging is used for screwdrivers or wrenches at the hardware stores, or how much is used for a number of electronic items. These things would be so easy to swipe otherwise.

What food items are you thinking about when you mention overpackaged food?

Ya I see your point for some of the things you mentioned. Stuff at the hardware store might make sense. I was think more along the lines of cereal boxes that contain a bag inside. Ditto for any packaged food or bulk buy items that just have a bunch of small packages inside. Oatmeal boxes and beer are a good example. Those extra boxes can take up a lot of space especially when they are square and your panniers are any other shape. Razors that come in huge flat plastic clamshells that are a major pain in the azz to open are for theft prevention, but they also increase the products size and retail space.

Square boxes stock, stack and ship easier than a bag.

I am still trying to figure out how they grow shrink wrapped baking potatoes....:innocent:

Aaron :)

Square boxes stock, stack and ship easier than a bag.

I am still trying to figure out how they grow shrink wrapped baking potatoes....:innocent:

Aaron :)

If they ship so easily then why do they take up so much room in my panniers? ;)

I was think more along the lines of cereal boxes that contain a bag inside. Ditto for any packaged food or bulk buy items that just have a bunch of small packages inside. Oatmeal boxes and beer are a good example. Those extra boxes can take up a lot of space especially when they are square and your panniers are any other shape.
Breakfast cereals are packaged in a box that accommodates them nicely, but the contents will settle in transit, hence the reason there is extra room in the box when you buy it at the store.

What bothers me are the boxes of single-serving items such as granola bars, hot chocolate, tea or a few other items. Each item is individually wrapped, then put into a box. That's a lot of extra packaging and it's not needed. In the case of tea bags, I'm trying to understand why each bag is put in an individual foil package. Unless the box of tea bags contains a number of different flavours, there is no need for this. My response has been to primarily buy tea that is not overpackaged in this way. I'll either buy the loose tea or if I buy tea in bags, the bags usually are not individually wrapped.

I doubt the extra packaging is there to deter thieves. I think it has more to do with its ability to take up large amounts of shelf space. This essentially makes for bigger advertising in the store. The bigger the box, the bigger the brand name can be. Customers might also feel like they are getting more for their money when it comes in a big box. Remember that producers of products don't care if they get stolen because it will the be retailers loss, not he producers.

One thing that is certainly bigger than it needs to be is laundry detergent. A jug of regular Tide is mostly water. Laundry detergent is one thing I buy the concentrated liquid for so its easy to transport.

What food items are you thinking about when you mention overpackaged food?
I'm sure it helps prevent bruising but the cases of mandarin oranges that come in the wooden crates that you can't recycle afterwards come to mind.

:thumb:
We average 1 roll every 2-3 days in our household.



the common female use to dry self after urinating increases consumption.