Fifty Plus (50+) - Dutch hate to wear cycling helmets

Front page story in today's Wall St. Journal blew my mind when I read it.

"Grown men wear helmets and fluorescent jackets, and it looks dangerous." The statistics were even more discouraging. The Dutch Cyclists Union pushes hard against use of helmets.

Here in Pennsylvania we have a mandatory bicycle helmet law for riders under 12 years old. Never enforced but not a bad idea in my mind.

Here is a link to the article: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702304248704575574250616160146.html

For me I never leave the driveway without a helmet. Maybe the Dutch drivers are all really considerate to cyclists but here in the good ole USA not so much.

Helmets protect you when you bump your head on things. They do not stop cars from crushing your head.

Make your own choice. I choose to wear a helmet when I ride.

Mine protected my head when I bumped it on a car.

Please let's not start this debate again....

Make your own choice. I choose to wear a helmet when I ride.

Mine protected my head when I bumped it on a car.

I never ride without one, either.

please let's not start this debate again....

Ok.

Heck - everyone knows how hard-headed the Dutch are!!

What makes the Dutch the final arbiters of bicycle safety?

I've been to the Netherlands a few times, most of their bike path networks
are seperate from car traffic. I think this gives the Dutch a huge sense of
safety, maybe that's why they don't wear helmets. And I believe there is a
rule that in a bike with car accidents, the car is assumed guilty right away.
Again adding another sense of security for the Dutch people.

Please let's not start this debate again....

Why not?

In the past year alone, three members of our group sustained serious head injuries when they fell (in separate incidents) and bumped their head. At the ER, all of them were told that their helmet saved their life. One of them was knocked unconscious and air-lifted to the hospital. Another sustained multiple injuries and still has residual brain damage --- recovery for him has been much slower. In any case, there is no doubt that the helmet saved their lives. True, it won't stop a car from rolling over our head :eek: but it will protect us from injury (or death) in most cases of one's head meeting a hard object.

The Euro-socialist nations are notorious for their respect of personal liber.... oh, never mind.:innocent:

I never wear a helmet when riding a bike trail. But always do when riding the road.

In the past year alone, three members of our group sustained serious head injuries when they fell (in separate incidents) and bumped their head. At the ER, all of them were told that their helmet saved their life. One of them was knocked unconscious and air-lifted to the hospital. Another sustained multiple injuries and still has residual brain damage --- recovery for him has been much slower. In any case, there is no doubt that the helmet saved their lives. True, it won't stop a car from rolling over our head :eek: but it will protect us from injury (or death) in most cases of one's head meeting a hard object.

Well, if you ride a bike in a position such that your head is hanging over the handlebars, this is a very real risk. Dutch transportation cycling usually involves a much more upright seating position and relatively slow speeds. Not all cycling styles are equally risky.

I love the Dutch. They invented licorice candy too. We Americans, however have a tendency to try to save one another for our own damned good.
We oughta' go over there and bust some heads before they start wearing helmets.

I wear helmets all the time, but you have to understand that US infrastructure is not the most biker-friendly... The heart of Amsterdam consists of roads that mostly bikers use. It's more of a hassle to drive there than ride a bike. My point is that their city structure makes it so accidents and injuries in general are not as prevalent as they are here in the US. Helmets undoubtedly save lives, but it's more of an issue here to wear them because there is a higher risk of injury every time we mount our bikes.

They also wear wooden shoes. Does that mean we have to?:D

In the past year alone, three members of our group sustained serious head injuries when they fell (in separate incidents) and bumped their head. At the ER, all of them were told that their helmet saved their life. One of them was knocked unconscious and air-lifted to the hospital. Another sustained multiple injuries and still has residual brain damage --- recovery for him has been much slower. In any case, there is no doubt that the helmet saved their lives.
Why would there be no doubt? ER doctors aren't trained in accident reconstruction - nor are they in a position to gather data that would be needed for that. They are good at fixing the injuries that occur, but have no special expertise in determining what injuries would have been sustained in the absence of a helmet. Those of us who cycled long before helmets became popular did not observe greater numbers of serious head injuries or fatalities back then compared to today. Certainly it would have been noticed and had a chilling influence on the sport if multiple members of a single cycling club died in one year due to separate incidents.

"... but it will protect us from injury (or death) in most cases of one's head meeting a hard object."

If this were true then countries such as Australia where enforced helmet laws have sharply increased the helmet usage (to over 80%) should show dramatic reductions in the serious injury and fatality rates. But instead the number of hospitalizations and fatalites have only been reduced slightly - and traffic counts of cyclists show somewhat greater reductions. So the rate of serious injuries and fatalities has not been improved at all - the main impact of the law has been to discourage cycling.

I fell awhile back while airing my tires. When I gathered my senses I looked around to see if I was hurt and saw the stations building curb , with metal wear edge!, not 3" from my head!! If my head had struck that curb with no helmet I would not be here now. Scared me straight to always wear my helmet !!!

Helmets look dorky, they're uncomfortable, they're too expensive, and I don't like them... but i wear one anyway.

What makes the Dutch the final arbiters of bicycle safety?

Did you read the article? It certainly didn't come across as the Dutch believing they are the final arbiters of bicycle safety to me. In fact, it seems very similar to the "conversations" around helmet use on these forums.

On my commute into work I see two types of riders. Without exception- all the commuters on the roads wear helmets. Think the message has got through to the "Regular" cyclists at long last. Associated with these are the cyclists I see on the roads out on "Training" rides. Most of these wear helmets as they weave in and out of the traffic on the coast road riding the rollers that abound along here.

But the exception are those using the Cycle path along the seafront. Any regular cyclist would not use these paths as they are also used by runners- skateboards- Dogs and the occasional car. It will take twice as long to get to work using the cycle path as when using the road where traffic is at a standstill so no danger to anyone. I rarely see a rider with a helmet on the Seafront- but then they don't go fast enough to have an accident- fall off - even have a Tombay. Just like the Dutch

When I cycled from Vlissingen to Amsterdam in 1978 I encountered a group of school children beside the bike path that ran alongside a canal. The sight of the helmet on my head caused them to all break out in spontaneous laughter. :lol: :lol: :lol: :roflmao2: :roflmao2: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Wooden Shoe know it. Now we wanna tell the Dutch how to behave!!

Better put warning signs around those windmills while we're at it!! :D

I always wear a helmet - probably because it is the thing to do here. In Amsterdam no one wears a helmet and I would not wear one there either - it would be like wearing a helmet in your car here (possibly safer but you would look like an idiot). Who knows what the reality about accidents is. The Australians just published a graph showing the number of head injuries to cyclists. It goes down decade by decade (possibly as bikes on the road became common and drivers became aware of them) and then leveled off. Then the Aussies passed a mandatory helmet law. The graph stayed right where it was - low but no lower.

I suspect helmets are unusual in the Netherlands because of history. The Dutch have been biking forever - young, old and in between. Bikes were probably ubiquitous back in the 50s and 60s before helmets became popular. Given a bike culture with no helmets why would people change? On the other hand, when I was riding in rural areas of the Netherlands last month I noticed that a lot of roadies wore helmets. The rule seemed to be if lycra and speed, then helmets.

I guess my take on the article was different. The Dutch adults are a lost cause on the use of cycling helmets so they are trying to get the younger folks on board.

I often see kids(mostly learning to ride) on the MUP with no helmet. I often yell to the parents that the kid needs a helmet! I really don't care if someone else thinks I look like an idiot wearing a cycling helmet. There are thousands of stories of folks that would have suffered more severe injury or even death without using a bike helmet.

Thought someone would comment on their state laws on kids and bikes and helmets?

Why would there be no doubt? ER doctors aren't trained in accident reconstruction - nor are they in a position to gather data that would be needed for that.

Possibly, according to the doctors I know, because they've seen the results of similar accidents when someone wasn't wearing a helmet.


On my commute into work I see two types of riders. Without exception- all the commuters on the roads wear helmets.

Quite the opposite here. Most of the commuters I see do not have helmets. Many of the commuters here, though, are the "invisible" kind- riding X-mart mountain bikes in manual-labor style work clothes, slowly rolling down the sidewalk along a busy thoroughfare. I think there is an income gap. Helmeted riders also seem to be the ones that have lights and high-viz clothing and ride well-equipped, name-brand bikes.


But the exception are those using the Cycle path along the seafront. Any regular cyclist would not use these paths as they are also used by runners- skateboards- Dogs and the occasional car. It will take twice as long to get to work using the cycle path as when using the road where traffic is at a standstill so no danger to anyone. I rarely see a rider with a helmet on the Seafront- but then they don't go fast enough to have an accident- fall off - even have a Tombay. Just like the Dutch

Our MUPs around here are extremely useful for commuting at a decent speed. Even when the weather is nice and the afternoon crowd is out, there is pretty good cooperation between cyclists, walkers, joggers, dog walkers, etc.

I guess my take on the article was different. The Dutch adults are a lost cause on the use of cycling helmets so they are trying to get the younger folks on board.

I often see kids(mostly learning to ride) on the MUP with no helmet. I often yell to the parents that the kid needs a helmet! I really don't care if someone else thinks I look like an idiot wearing a cycling helmet. There are thousands of stories of folks that would have suffered more severe injury or even death without using a bike helmet.

Thought someone would comment on their state laws on kids and bikes and helmets?

It seems some have forgotten how to mind their own business. This was a cardinal sin to our parents and grandparents. Only the busiest of busy-bodies would have dared to interfere with a parent and child. You may need that bike helmet if you continue that practice. Some folks don't appreciate unsolicited advice.

"ER doctors aren't trained in accident reconstruction - nor are they in a position to gather data that would be needed for that."

Possibly, according to the doctors I know, because they've seen the results of similar accidents when someone wasn't wearing a helmet.
But they didn't see the accidents or determine the forces involved. So there's no way for them to know which injury cases involved 'similar' impacts.
They have neither the training nor the data to be able support a conclusion about the effect of a helmet in a particular incident.

...Some folks don't appreciate unsolicited advice.

I agree; I'd also like to see natural selection run its course, too. :)

There is very little helmet use in this area. Mostly people who look like they are pretty new cyclists. Older grumpy men and smiling women on the MUP with shiny new bikes and bright colored helmets. Sneakers, dungaree cut offs and a short sleeved, collared sport shirt for the guys of course. During commuting time, it would be a coup to see a rider with helmet, and there are lots of commuters.

Not judging, just saying.

If I didn't wear a helmet, I'd have to glue or nail my rear view mirror to my head. I'm not riding without it, so I guess I'll just keep wearing the helmet.

Discussions on the helmet usage debate is about as fruitful as the debate on religion or politics. Just do what you think is right and forget the other side of the debate. Oh, I wear a helmet. So what.

Discussions on the helmet usage debate is about as fruitful as the debate on religion or politics. Just do what you think is right and forget the other side of the debate. Oh, I wear a helmet. So what.

+100

I wear a helmet also, but I don't tell anyone bussep you guys and wiminks.

In the past year alone, three members of our group sustained serious head injuries when they fell (in separate incidents) and bumped their head. At the ER, all of them were told that their helmet saved their life. One of them was knocked unconscious and air-lifted to the hospital. Another sustained multiple injuries and still has residual brain damage --- recovery for him has been much slower. In any case, there is no doubt that the helmet saved their lives. True, it won't stop a car from rolling over our head :eek: but it will protect us from injury (or death) in most cases of one's head meeting a hard object.You should be asking WHY your riding group crashes so much. Thinking a helmet will protect you from such a dangerous group?

There are some things we can never solve on these forums no matter how persuasive we try to be. Saddle choice, bike frame material, Helmets plus tire size and pressure and what to wear when riding to name a few. Helmets and their use are high on the list. :D

For me there is a bigger question about the Dutch and their riding habits rather than their helmet use. What is with the heavy old granny bikes? I wouldn’t walk across the street to put one out if it was on fire. Tape a quarter under the saddle and toss it over a bridge and into the water and you lose a quarter. I am not sure but they just might weigh as much as my first dirt bike. :eek:

Maybe they don’t wear helmets because their bikes aren’t much faster than walking? :lol:

I always wear a helmet...except for the last two trips to Europe when we rented commuter bikes (no helmets available). I felt O.K. about it because the drivers in Europe respect cyclists to a greater extent than their U.S. counterparts.

What is with the heavy old granny bikes? ... I am not sure but they just might weigh as much as my first dirt bike.
Probably, but bike weight doesn't matter much if you're not doing any climbing and it's pretty flat there. As long as I stay on flat ground I can load up my bike trailer with 100 lbs and still go almost as fast as when I'm on the unloaded bike although it does take longer to get started from a stop.

And theft is a big concern when you use your bike for daily transportation where it's left locked up outside much of the time. So you don't want to have a bike that stands out as the flashy lightweight model among all the others.

What makes the Dutch the final arbiters of bicycle safety?

They are NOT. Besides, just because a law is enacted that does not mean all nationals will follow that law.

Just because North Americans (I speak as a Canadian on this international discussion forum) go one way that DOES NOT mean everyone should follow - regardless what anyone thinks. All nations have the FREEDOM to enact their own laws that reflect their nation's way of doing things, not anyone elses.

Now, to throw something else into this "mix' of opinions, why does the USA not use the metric system? It makes so much sense, and most of the rest of the world is using it, and ... ;-)

Now, to throw something else into this "mix' of opinions, why does the USA not use the metric system? It makes so much sense, and most of the rest of the world is using it, and ... ;-)
That's a French thing isn't it?

It seems some have forgotten how to mind their own business. This was a cardinal sin to our parents and grandparents. Only the busiest of busy-bodies would have dared to interfere with a parent and child. You may need that bike helmet if you continue that practice. Some folks don't appreciate unsolicited advice.

I guess it is ok to teach the kids that it is ok to ignore the state law that under 12 year old riders must wear a helmet where ever they bike, including the MUP?

Now, to throw something else into this "mix' of opinions, why does the USA not use the metric system? It makes so much sense, and most of the rest of the world is using it, and ... ;-)

The metric system in a country where many can not accept evolution? Climate change and human rights for gays and lesbians will have to get in line.
A simple understanding of basic economics ain't gonna happen.

The metric system in a country where many can not accept evolution? Climate change and human rights for gays and lesbians will have to get in line.
A simple understanding of basic economics ain't gonna happen.

Despite the backwardness of the US regarding the metric system (and I'm a dual citizen (Canada and US) so I'm allowed to be "self-critical"), I happen to think that it would be quite simple to make the US go metric. The US military is already on the metric system (what a mess it would be with NATO if they weren't). Just introduce a bill to go metric that ties in with military requirements and national security. After all, the entire US Interstate Highway System has a military rationale!

Metric conversions are dead simple. I do the speed/distance calculations automatically anytime I'm riding/driving in the US. Kilometers make far more sense on a bicycle than miles.

As for helmets, it is a requirement to wear helmets in British Columbia, unless you are piloting or riding in a pedi-cab. You likely won't get busted for not wearing one, unless you happen to be riding without it the one week per year where the cops decide to do their "crackdown."

I don't really care what people do as long as it doesn't affect me. On the one hand, there are too many humanoids living on this planet of limited resources, so humanoids killing themselves could be a good thing. On the other hand, as a taxpayer I am paying for the medical care of people in hospitals with head injuries caused by their not wearing helmets, a bad thing. So I wear a helmet in order to mitigate the risk of dying (fewer humanoids is OK as long as it ain't me!) or ending up long-term in a hospital and costing other taxpayers money. So it's both a selfish and an altruistic thing.

L.

Riding my road bike, I use a helmet and usually road bikers wear helmets too over here - riding my normal bike, no way I would wear a helmet! erm, I am Dutch. I never crashed on either bike. But yeah, there's always a risk. Live on the edge ;-)

I always wear a helmet...except for the last two trips to Europe when we rented commuter bikes (no helmets available). I felt O.K. about it because the drivers in Europe respect cyclists to a greater extent than their U.S. counterparts.

Here in the UK- cyclists are getting respect from other road users- but this has been a long time coming.There are a few idiots about- both in the car community and within the cyclists- but in the main- Cyclists are getting respect from other road users.

But you want respect---Go to France. And want more respect-Cycle the Back roads up the sides of the valleys in the Alpes. I had a car follow me up a 20% slope for about 1/2 mile and he would not overtake. When he did pass- he yelled "Bravo" out of the window before he sped off down the other side at a speed That showed how long he had been delayed behind me.

There isn't any question that helmets help prevent injuries. However, it's up to the individual to decide whether or not to wear one. If you want to wear a helmet, do so. If you don't, don't. End of conversation.

I agree; I'd also like to see natural selection run its course, too. :)

Ah, but natural selection may not always take the direction you think it will!

Now, to throw something else into this "mix' of opinions, why does the USA not use the metric system? It makes so much sense, and most of the rest of the world is using it, and ... ;-)Starting to sound like a bunch of old guys trying to cut a Century ride down to only 60 miles.

The Dutch are funny.

If you want to wear a helmet, wear it. If not, then don't. I do and I would in the Netherlands too.