Advocacy & Safety - Hand signals

How many people know these hand signals (http://assembly.state.ny.us/member_files/029/20040510a/)? I didn't know the three variations. I have only signaled when making left turn, and it turns out (according to this site convention) I made the wrong signal--I used straight arm, which seems to be for right turn? But I am sure I had made my intention clear.

The only possible use for signaling for right turn for me would be if I'm riding on a bike lane that is on the left side of a street.

Has anyone needed to signal a "stop"? When would that be needed?

They have the diagram wrong.

Left hand extended outward is a left turned, pointing up is a right turn and pointing down is a slow/stop. In Colorado and other states, you extend your right arm out to indicate a right turn.

CDOT's Bike Ped manual indicate the accepted signals in Colorado and are accurate.

http://www.coloradodot.info/programs/bikeped/bike-ped-manual/2008-02-rules-of-the-road.pdf/view

http://www.gamerevolution.com/images/misc/inverted_finger.jpg

Other hand signals around here for cyclists only are left hand out, go left... right hand out go right. left hand 90-degrees down, stopping.

They have the diagram wrong.

Thank the Lord you caught it! Guess they should be noticed!

In what situation would one need to signal for stopping?

Has anyone needed to signal a "stop"? When would that be needed?
When you are preparing for or in the process of stopping.

What is there to discuss? Just point in the direction you are going to turn with the arm on that side of your bike.

If you want to use the motorist's version of the right turn hand signal, go for it, but it's not necessary.

Those signals are wrong. Whoever made that diagram doesn't know the signals. The link Mikey posted has them correct. I use left arm straight out for left turns, right arm straight out for right turns.

Some localities don't also allow (by law) the right arm extended for right turn. I doubt that would ever cause any problems for anyone that used it in those places though.
The only time I use bent arm right turn signal is if there is someone on my right who is also turning and I don't want to whack them.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qAygHtnyUqI

The only times I've used the stop signal to actually signal a stop are on group rides. I have used it to signal to cars about to pass me that that particular moment would not be a good time to pass me. Add frantic waving for emphasis.

Learned the correct ones 26 years ago. Used all the time depending on surroundings.

These signals are for the most part pointless. In my jurisdiction they are the law. Not a single person has been observed by me doing them in 50 years. The facts are that turning right is never really dangerous in a way that signaling would help: Oncoming car doesn't care. Passing car doesn't care. Turning right with you either is ahead or behind you, in which case it doesn't mater, or is going with you in which case if they think you are going through it s actually safer for you because they will hang back, if they are going at the exact same time as you, then you better be on your toes, possibly involving braking, oh wait a second the front brake hand is waving in the air... (My bikes all get the front brake switched tot he right handle).

Similar issues when making a right hand turn against and oncoming car coming left across you.

Stopping is a whole big thing. First of all unlike brake light on a car, it generally isn't a big issue since bikes keep to the right. in the city, bikes ignore stop signs on a 4 way, and obey them (OK probably not full stop) on a two way where they aren't the through traffic, same with lights. Normally I have better things to do than signal, like use the brakes. This crap must have been developed when coaster brakes were the norm. Attempts to allow cars to take their right of way, are normally pointless. Even in bad areas for bikes, like where I live east of Toronto, most cars just sit there till you clear the intersection, they don't want anything to do with you at stops.

Often in the city, even where the roads are good, there are large storm drains near corners, and bikes have handling issues as they roll up to the corner. You can go right through the drains, sometimes, but you will need both hands on the bars. Or you go around them, let's say approaching a right hand turn. So that's what, a left signal as yo go around? A stop signal and right hand turn signal? You would look like a windmill if you were still in control of the bike at all.

Most motorists heads will explode, they have no more idea what your hand signals mean, than apparently the people making the instructional materials.

So sure, group rides, other situations can come up, good to known them, good around cops. In big cities it's as with cars you throw them in after having jumped the guy you are in traffic with so that it's a fait accomplis before you signal, cause you know he will take an early signal as a chance to cut you off. So If I have the speed to get over for a left hand turn, I will throw one in, just so the guy doesn't get mad. But I am not going out there in the first place unless i have the drop on the traffic anyway.

I find all the signals to be very useful and I believe are partly a reason my driving is so trouble free vs. the moaning I hear so often here about motorist this and that.

The right turn signal is useful as one can't signal slowing and turning at the same time, so drivers behind you know you are slowing and preparing for a turn.

Stop signal is useful approaching places you plan to stop ahead so driver behind know you are slowing.

Stop signal is useful approaching intersections where you have a stop sign so drivers who may be coming to intersection at similar time know you intend to stop and will proceed normally if they have the right of way.

This list goes on especially when adding cases to use those signals to be courteous to others.

....
Has anyone needed to signal a "stop"? When would that be needed?

When you're riding amidst other cyclists you don't know and approach intersections you intend to stop at. I need to do it every once in a while on my commute.

There are so many errors on that page, it is comical. Did you know that it is not legal to ride a bicycle in NY without coaster brakes? -
Do not wear earphones plugged into a radio or tape player while riding a bike - presumably MP3 players or CD players are just fine.

He also tells you to keep both hands on the handlebars - which makes the backwards hand signals even harder to do.

This gives me great confidence in those who write the NY state laws.

I signal all of the time and it's especially useful when taking the lane or swinging over to a left turn lane. I use the International High Sign (http://images.artnet.com/artwork_images/113308/150355.jpg) almost daily as well.

Stop signal is useful approaching intersections where you have a stop sign so drivers who may be coming to intersection at similar time know you intend to stop and will proceed normally if they have the right of way.


This is the number one situation I use it in, personally. It helps drivers be confident you are going to actually stop and act appropriately at said intersections, in my experience.

Even with Fresno tweakers?

I use right and left hand signals all the time for changing lanes and left signal when making left turns at intersections.

I use the stop/slow signal when someone tailgates me and I start slowing them down
or
when a car stops in front of me and I do not think the driver behind me is paying attention ahead.

Even with Fresno tweakers?

Even with. :D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qAygHtnyUqI


/thread

I find all the signals to be very useful and I believe are partly a reason my driving is so trouble free vs. the moaning I hear so often here about motorist this and that...

+1

I rode into the lion's den today: a New Jersey mall. Using signals, and getting out of the way (not "taking a lane") unless absolutely necessary, seemed to get a LOT of respect from America's worst drivers. Once my left arm went up to signal my intention, the drivers behind me backed off and let me move where I needed. I was actually quite pleasnatly surprised.

I also found that instead of the stop signal, a simple wave of the hand left and right worked better to let the driver in the cross street know that I intended to let them go first.

The one thing that seemed to freak people out was when I was in a track stand position. It was like deer in the headlights....

These signals are for the most part pointless. [...] The facts are that turning right is never really dangerous in a way that signaling would help:

That's cool, as long as you don't start moaning when I plough into from behind because I had no idea you were going to turn right.



(My bikes all get the front brake switched tot he right handle).

So? You can make all the signals with your left hand. That's the point of the crooked-upward arm. Same as motorcycling


Normally I have better things to do than signal, like use the brakes.

Ah, you're incompent and/or riding like a fool. I can see why you don't like the signals then. Carry on.



Often in the city, even where the roads are good, there are large storm drains near corners, and bikes have handling issues as they roll up to the corner. You can go right through the drains, sometimes, but you will need both hands on the bars. Or you go around them, let's say approaching a right hand turn. So that's what, a left signal as yo go around? A stop signal and right hand turn signal? You would look like a windmill if you were still in control of the bike at all.


See above.

I signal all of the time and it's especially useful when taking the lane or swinging over to a left turn lane. I use the International High Sign (http://images.artnet.com/artwork_images/113308/150355.jpg) almost daily as well.

Like a greedy child, I receive that signal far more often than I give it away. I always assume they are signaling that I am number one, but their index finger doesn't work so they substitute tall man.

I learned these signals (in correct form) in motorcycle school, since you need your right hand on the throttle/front brake. If i recall, i also learned them in drivers' ed, since cars are where one-armed signalling comes from.

Moto school also teaches you to signal and look because you never trust motorists. I suppose this goes double for when you are riding a bicycle and have no brake lights. If there are cyclists behind me, i'll signal before i slow as a courtesy.

Like a greedy child, I receive that signal far more often than I give it away. I always assume they are signaling that I am number one, but their index finger doesn't work so they substitute tall man.
I'm usually under the impression they are signaling their hat size or intelligence quotient.

How many people know these hand signals (http://assembly.state.ny.us/member_files/029/20040510a/)? I didn't know the three variations. I have only signaled when making left turn, and it turns out (according to this site convention) I made the wrong signal--I used straight arm, which seems to be for right turn? But I am sure I had made my intention clear.

The only possible use for signaling for right turn for me would be if I'm riding on a bike lane that is on the left side of a street.

Has anyone needed to signal a "stop"? When would that be needed?

I don't use hand signals.

How many people know these hand signals (http://assembly.state.ny.us/member_files/029/20040510a/)? I didn't know the three variations. I have only signaled when making left turn, and it turns out (according to this site convention) I made the wrong signal--I used straight arm, which seems to be for right turn? But I am sure I had made my intention clear.

The only possible use for signaling for right turn for me would be if I'm riding on a bike lane that is on the left side of a street.

Has anyone needed to signal a "stop"? When would that be needed?

Raising the LEFT arm to indicate a RIGHT turn (aka the Polish turn signal) is for DRIVERS and for an obvious reason.

Using this signal on a 2 wheeled vehicle is just SILLY and is usually interpreted as a wave by motor vehicle drivers.

The chances of either a RIGHT or LEFT arm being used to indicate a turn when fully extended, parallel to the ground the ground, would be almost impossible to mis-interpret IMHO.

Using this signal on a 2 wheeled vehicle is just SILLY and is usually interpreted as a wave by motor vehicle drivers.
I've often heard this, and with my anecdotal evidence, I don't really find this to be true.

I am used to signaling right turns with my left arm. Just how I learned it. I use that signal frequently in the roundabouts around here to indicate I am exiting. Most drivers seem to recognize that.

I think for the most part, drivers remember that section from driver's ed.

I do agree though, it is pretty hard to misinterpret an arm being pointed in the direction you're going, and Colorado law gives me that option.

Has anyone needed to signal a "stop"? When would that be needed?


I use it regularly, when I'm out in the roadway making a left hand turn, I have to signal to the motorists behind me when I have to stop in the middle of the intersection for oncoming traffic.

I use hand signals if there is anyone around to see them. But I've discovered that it's necessary to be careful with the timing of the signal where I live. Car drivers use the left turn hand signal to ask permission to cut in front of someone, which has led to quite a few cars coming to a complete stop upon seeing me signaling my intention to turn left, when they had the right-of-way and should have kept going.

MA state law permits you to signal a right turn with either hand. I use my right hand, pointing straight out. Most cyclists I know do this. motorists, coming out of cross streets get this immediately. I'm pretty well convinced that very few people get the left arm, bent up at a 90 degree angle, to signal a right turn. I think they learn that in driver's ed, then promptly forget it, after passing the road test.

I really don't think the raised left arm is effective as a right turn signal. Are they still even teaching that to motorists? I have seen a motorist using the left arm to signal a right turn, it puzzled me for a few seconds. Last time I saw a cyclist doing it, I knew what they were doing, but they did it really badly.

Pennsylvania suggests using hand signals, but only when the cyclist feels that it isn't hurting their safety to have a hand off of the handlebars. I don't generally bother with right turns, I do generally signal left turns if anyone is around

I've tried left-hand raised... people don't get it. Irregardless of local laws, even the standard dog will understand pointing. I'd go for the common denominator when communicating with foreigners. ;)

One of the reasons I use the right turn signal by the raised left hand is because, if I'm turning right, I'll be in the rightmost lane and the drivers in lanes further left of me will see my left arm easier. If I, for some reason, have to move from a left lane to a lane further right, I will use my right arm.

And I do signal all my turns. Because I think it's a courtesy to drivers. I've had good luck in my city where if I'm approaching an intersection where a driver has a stop sign, a good majority of them will wait for me. By signaling my intention, it lets them prepare to go (and potentially go) without worrying about waiting for me.

In what situation would one need to signal for stopping?

When you are stopping and there are cars behind you it can help make sure they know what you are doing (or even cars in a cross street, they'll know you are stopping not trying to run the red). Even at stop signs, so many bikes blow reds and stop signs that signaling you are actually stopping helps drivers know what to do.

I do it every day at the end of my commute (I stop in the middle of a block not turn into an alley) to make sure the driver behind me knows I'm slowing down and stopping.

Just this morning some idiot was crawling up my butt inches away, he was also pulling over, but he didn't realize what the signal was maybe. (AND I had to put my hand back to brake which I think was also a problem). I am thinking I really need to switch my brakes so right is front.

edit: also right turn signaling (either arm) is a good idea because drivers will know you are slowing down to turn, not continuing at the same speed. A driver behind you won't know you are slowing (since we don't have brake lights) and might hit you from behind. Or other drivers might be trying to time their actions to yours, letting people know your intentions is never a bad idea.

Signaling helps communicate that you intend to be predicable and that you are aware of others you are driving with. That helps reduce tensions others may have around cyclists.

I find all the signals to be very useful and I believe are partly a reason my driving is so trouble free vs. the moaning I hear so often here about motorist this and that.

Strongly agree. Signalling makes me more predictable, and being more predicatable makes me safer. Letting other drivers know what I am going to do before I do it helps to preempt conflicts before they can develop. That supports my goal of never testing the law of physics that says two objects can not occupy the same space at the same time.

Out of long habit that has not yielded to corrective attempts, I continue signaling a right turn with my left hand.

I encourage beginning riders to use their right because it makes our intent clearer to drivers who may be totally unfamiliar with hand signals.

I really don't think the raised left arm is effective as a right turn signal. Are they still even teaching that to motorists? I have seen a motorist using the left arm to signal a right turn, it puzzled me for a few seconds. Last time I saw a cyclist doing it, I knew what they were doing, but they did it really badly.

Pennsylvania suggests using hand signals, but only when the cyclist feels that it isn't hurting their safety to have a hand off of the handlebars. I don't generally bother with right turns, I do generally signal left turns if anyone is around


How do you suggest a motorist signals a right turn? Moving over to the passenger side to stick their right hand out?

As a vehicle in traffic, I use vehicular hand signals. If a motorist runs me over and then tries to explain to the police officer that my hand signals were confusing, I have an out.

Thank the Lord you caught it! Guess they should be noticed!

In what situation would one need to signal for stopping?

I do this often when there are motor vehicles right behind me and I don't want them to try to squeeze past me in a narrow lane... especially if I am coming to a stop.

Signaling helps communicate that you intend to be predicable and that you are aware of others you are driving with. That helps reduce tensions others may have around cyclists.

Fully agree... which is why I signal my intentions no matter what vehicle I may be using... 2 wheels or 4.

How do you suggest a motorist signals a right turn? Moving over to the passenger side to stick their right hand out?

As a vehicle in traffic, I use vehicular hand signals. If a motorist runs me over and then tries to explain to the police officer that my hand signals were confusing, I have an out.motorists should have their equipment in good working order and use the lights. If I were a policeman and saw someone using a hand signal in their motor vehicle, there would be a traffic stop in their near future. It is a totally ineffective way for a motorist to signal their intentions, and I am pretty sure every state requires all lights on a motor vehicle to be operable. In practice, there is very little difference between a motorist signaling a right turn and a motorist with his hand out the window because it's a nice day and they feel like having their hand out the window. I would wager that there are very few people that would recognize a motorist's hand signals.

I understand that many of us were taught to use the uplifted left hand to make a right turn signal. In practice, it is confusing to most observers. Fortunately many states have recognized that an outstretched right hand is fairly easy to understand. I happen to live in a state where an outstretched right hand is a legal and proper right turn signal.

Out of long habit that has not yielded to corrective attempts, I continue signaling a right turn with my left hand.

I do it that way because I usually only have a reflector band on my left wrist. Signalling right movements is rarely an issue anyway; if I'm preparing to turn right, there's not going to be anywhere to my right for a car to fit. For right lane changes, I'm going to wait until I'm sure the lane is completely clear anyway. There's nowhere on my usual routes where I need to move right so quickly after a left turn that I need to worry about wedging into traffic that direction.

I like using a right turn signal (using my right arm) to indicate to any motorist wishing to turn right out of the road that I am turning into that it's OK to go (because I'm turning), and to motorists behind me that I'm about to slow down and turn. But I don't signal if no one's around.

motorists should have their equipment in good working order and use the lights. If I were a policeman and saw someone using a hand signal in their motor vehicle, there would be a traffic stop in their near future. It is a totally ineffective way for a motorist to signal their intentions, and I am pretty sure every state requires all lights on a motor vehicle to be operable. In practice, there is very little difference between a motorist signaling a right turn and a motorist with his hand out the window because it's a nice day and they feel like having their hand out the window. I would wager that there are very few people that would recognize a motorist's hand signals.

I understand that many of us were taught to use the uplifted left hand to make a right turn signal. In practice, it is confusing to most observers. Fortunately many states have recognized that an outstretched right hand is fairly easy to understand. I happen to live in a state where an outstretched right hand is a legal and proper right turn signal.

Didn't realize what you meant the first time. I agree that motorists (myself included) need to have proper working equipment. The reason why hand signals exist is because they were used before this equipment (turn signals) existed. If, for whatever reason, motorists should find themselves in a situation where their signals are not working, they can still use hand signals. This is why most driving manuals cover hand signals. When I'm cycling in traffic, I like to stick to the same rules as the rest of the vehicles on the road. As far as I know, my region does not endorse the outstretched right arm as a signal indicating a right turn. Even if it did, what are the chances that drivers are familiar with this exemption?

I sometimes just throw my hand out there in hopes of getting greater passing clearance from the motorists. The 'hold back' motion is also surprisingly effective coupled with assertive lane positioning.

In Arizona:
28-756. Method of giving hand and arm signals
A. Except as provided by subsection B, a person shall give all hand and arm signals required by this article from the left side of the vehicle in the following manner, and the signals shall indicate as follows:
1. Left turn. Hand and arm extended horizontally.
2. Right turn. Hand and arm extended upward.
3. Stop or decrease speed. Hand and arm extended downward.
B. A person operating a bicycle may give a right turn signal by extending the right hand and arm horizontally to the right side of the bicycle.



28-755. Hand or arm signals or signal device
A person shall give a stop or turn signal if required by this article by means of the hand and arm or by a signal lamp or lamps or mechanical signal device of a type approved by the department. If a vehicle is constructed or loaded so that a hand and arm signal would not be visible both to the front and rear of the vehicle, the signals must be given by a lamp or lamps or signal device.

28-754. Turning movements and required signals
A. A person shall not turn a vehicle at an intersection unless the vehicle is in proper position on the roadway as required in section 28-751, or turn a vehicle to enter a private road or driveway or otherwise turn a vehicle from a direct course or move right or left on a roadway unless and until the movement can be made with reasonable safety. A person shall not so turn any vehicle without giving an appropriate signal in the manner provided by this article in the event any other traffic may be affected by the movement.
B. A signal of intention to turn right or left when required shall be given continuously during not less than the last one hundred feet traveled by the vehicle before turning.
C. A person shall not stop or suddenly decrease the speed of a vehicle without first giving an appropriate signal in the manner provided by this article to the driver of any vehicle immediately to the rear when there is opportunity to give the signal.


A few comments:
-AZ has the exception for bicycles (but not for motorcycles)
-Hand signals are OK for motor vehicles as long as they can be seen by others.
-No exception for bicycle drivers for signaling 100ft before turn. Note that there is also no exception for any driver if there is a prior possible turn within 100ft of the desired turn. Safe drivers will and do not signal for 100ft ahead in this case.

I use hand signals if there is anyone around to see them. But I've discovered that it's necessary to be careful with the timing of the signal where I live. Car drivers use the left turn hand signal to ask permission to cut in front of someone, which has led to quite a few cars coming to a complete stop upon seeing me signaling my intention to turn left, when they had the right-of-way and should have kept going.

I agree.

When I'm cycling in traffic, I like to stick to the same rules as the rest of the vehicles on the road. As far as I know, my region does not endorse the outstretched right arm as a signal indicating a right turn. Even if it did, what are the chances that drivers are familiar with this exemption?

It's a pretty intuitive signal, I think that most people can figure it out. And if you run across someone who can't figure out that pointing right means you're going right, chances are good that they aren't bright enough to remember what a 'proper' hand signal is, either. These are the same folks who would occasionally wave back to me when I used to throw the old bent-left-arm right turn signal. I used the bent-left-arm signal when I first started signaling from the bike, only to find that it confused a fair amount of people.

I want other road users to understand my intentions, so I use a signal that makes sense, and that seems to be convention. The only road users I see that regularly using hand signals are motorcyclists, which is interesting as they also use lighted turn signals. I suppose that the hand signal is a sort of safety redundancy, to say "No, really, I'm totally changing lanes here. See the blinker? See the hand? My intentions could not be more obvious. Alright, here I go!" Anyway, motorcyclists around here just point in the direction that they're turning. I don't think that I've ever seen anyone other than a few bicyclists use the bent-left-arm signal.

If you want to obey the same rules that cars must obey, then you need to mount lighted turn signals on your bike, because that what cars are required to run. And get a motor, so that you'll stop impeding traffic (I know, bicycles are exempt from minimum speed limits. But, man oh man, do I run into a lot of motorists who don't seem to be "familiar with this exemption").

Also: Right turn, Clyde. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qAygHtnyUqI)