Classic & Vintage - need help with purchase

hi:

I am new to this forum.

I decided I want to buy a vintage schwinn.

At first, I was thinking about a breeze. Then I discovered suburbans and collegiates and now I am very confused!!

Can anyone offer pros/cons on these bikes?

Any other models that you know about that might fit the desires of someone who wants to go vintage?

Are there any years for these bikes that are considered the best?

Here is some info about me and how I would use the bike:

Woman
tall 5'11" : very long legs and very long arms (so what size bike do I need?)
I live in San Diego and would use the bike year round.
I like vintage styling. The style is important.
I live near downtown San Diego. There are some hills.
I would mostly use the bike for light shopping, visiting friends, seeing the sites, going to parks, etc.

I would like the bike to look nice. Since I am interested in a vintage bike, I am assuming that there might be some wear and tear. What should I look for? What should I avoid? How serious is rust (how much can be polished away?)

Thank you all so much in advance for any advice you can provide!!! Looking forward to hearing what people have to say!

I would suggest a suburban for a tall woman.I like the 5 speeds best but the 10 speeds seem to be more common.If you are ok with a man's frame I think the largest suburban frame is a 23".I think this would fit better than the tallest woman's size.

Lot's of questions, and good ones. For fitting, I'd suggest measuring your cycling inseam, which is not your trouser inseam or rise. Good instructions can be found at http://www.rivbike.com/article/bike_fit/pbh_and_how_to_measure_it, giving several approaches to finding your saddle height and frame size. It should cover older conventional bikes like these Schwinns.

Bigger question: what kind of riding do you want to do, and how do you want to sit on the bike? Bent over and racy, upright and ladylike (think english lady), somewhere in between. City, country, 2 miles at a time, 10 miles at a time? Schwinn's bikes look very similar but are somewhat different. The quality is good on all of them. I've known some tall, slim, long-limbed women to ride Suburbans very comfortably, say taking the kids around the neighborhood. They only came with upright handlebars. Suburban's have 5-speed gear systems - might or might not be good for hills, but I don't know San Diego very well.

Schwinn had a LOT of models, all with very similar styling in the '60s and '70s. You can't go wrong with anything in those years if everything, such as the gears, works.

Just re-read your post, and I see what kind of riding you want to do. A Suburban is probably PERFECT. If you get some grocery baskets to stash trinkets you get while sight-seeing, or even groceries, that bike could be your friend for decades in that kind of usage.

I would suggest a suburban for a tall woman.I like the 5 speeds best but the 10 speeds seem to be more common.If you are ok with a man's frame I think the largest suburban frame is a 23".I think this would fit better than the tallest woman's size.


When I was younger, I always preferred a man's frame (I was a tomboy and wanted to look like one!)

Now I am in my 40s and not so tomboyish and would prefer a woman's frame so I can wear skirts and be comfortable!

Also, I would like a model that allows me to sit up straight so I can see the sights. I would use this bike for leisurely rides, not utilitarian stuff like commuting fast and efficiently.

thanks for the reply, road fan.

I will check out the rivbik site. I think the size issue will be a big one for me. There are not a lot of women with my proportions so I think I am going to have a hard time with size. I wonder if it is possible to buy a man's frame and have it custom welded to retrofit it for a woman??

And yes, I would like to sit upright. Ladylike! Exactly.

There are a lot of hills near where I live. Some are very steep and I would avoid them like most other people. Because of the hills, a good selection of smoothly working gears would be nice.

Thanks swinderella and road fan for pointing me towards the suburban. I am glad I asked!

Any thoughts on the selecting a bike of less than pristine condition? Any suggestions about how much rust is too much to restore without having to have things re-plated? I guess if I ended up finding a bike that was the perfect fit and I found myself using it a lot, I would not mind taking it apart and restoring it. I am pretty handy and I have a friend who is REALLY handy.

At first, I would try to find one that cleans up nicely enough and use it for a few months to make sure it fits my needs before I invest in further restoration.

When a bike is filthy with it's tubes hanging out and kinked cables tangled around the frame it's difficult to imagine but it's really quite easy to bring the chrome and paint back to a healthy shine. Coastal towns would be the worse place to shop due to the salty air but Tucson and Phoenix are among the best in the country.

Take a "chore boy" copper pad and a bit of WD-40 to the most corroded chrome on any sample you find (with the owners blessings, underside of handlebar is usually pretty safe) and see what the potential is. Many of the forums reconditioning experts have posted their entire list of potions and medias (these should be regarded like heirloom recipes) for us to use on everything, paint, chrome, leather and loosening stuck fasteners.

Other than tools and shop conveniences, tires, tubes and cables may be all you need to really make a 'burb pop like new. Oh, post pics of everything and tell us what you find, learn and don't need any more and want to pass on.

Though not a racing bike, this old girl is perfect for a lady who wishes to sit upright. Also, since you are interested in vintage bicycles and considering a purchase it, it would be a good idea to learn how to determine quality of bicycles. I published MY "TEN SPEEDS" (http://www.mytenspeeds.com/My_TenSpeeds_1/index.htm) with the person new to the vintage bicycle interest, in mind. You might find some useful information to get you started on the Bicycle Basics (http://www.mytenspeeds.com/My_TenSpeeds_1/Site%20Contents/Bicycle_Basics/Bicycle_Basics_Page.htm) page.

Hope this is a help.

http://www.mytenspeeds.com/My_TenSpeeds_1/Bicycles_Table/English_Bicycles/Raleigh_Bicycles/Raleigh_Touriste/RaleighTouriste_Full_Side_2.jpg

The Suburban is a nice bike for around town use.

These "Chicago" Schwinns were easy-to-service, exceptionally dependable, practically indestructable bikes with very durable and long lasting chrome plating and paint. They are comfortable to ride. Replacement tires can sometimes take a little more effort to find, as compared to a newer mountain bike tire (for example). Everything else is pretty easy to find. The Alvit-Huret deraileurs and friction shifters of the '70s are not as smooth and precise as later models from other manufacturers. They do work, however, and are fine for casual around town use. These bikes are a bit heavy, and can drain your energy on longer rides. If you have any hills at all to contend with, you are better with a 5-speed or 10-speed model instead of a 3-speed model. The 3-speed models, however, usually present you with fewer maintenance issues. There are still quite a few of them around, and they don't really cost that much. They do look nice, especially with chrome fenders, saddle bag, rear rack and a generator light set!
To get an idea of pricing, which does vary by regional market and the bike's condition, take a look at this website:

http://bike.jaxed.com/cgi-bin/bike.cgi?cat=bik&fil=suburban&itm=schwinn&state=&ps=&pe=&ys=&ye=&submit=+GO+

Inexpensive parts and accessories can be purchased online from places like Nashbar and Niagara Cycle Works.

When a bike is filthy with it's tubes hanging out and kinked cables tangled around the frame it's difficult to imagine but it's really quite easy to bring the chrome and paint back to a healthy shine. Coastal towns would be the worse place to shop due to the salty air but Tucson and Phoenix are among the best in the country.

Take a "chore boy" copper pad and a bit of WD-40 to the most corroded chrome on any sample you find (with the owners blessings, underside of handlebar is usually pretty safe) and see what the potential is. Many of the forums reconditioning experts have posted their entire list of potions and medias (these should be regarded like heirloom recipes) for us to use on everything, paint, chrome, leather and loosening stuck fasteners.

Other than tools and shop conveniences, tires, tubes and cables may be all you need to really make a 'burb pop like new. Oh, post pics of everything and tell us what you find, learn and don't need any more and want to pass on.

That is a beautiful raleigh!!!!! Maybe I need to look into these, as well.

That is a beautiful raleigh!!!!! Maybe I need to look into these, as well.

There are a lot of Raleigh and Raleigh Clones as well as other British bikes that will fit your needs. Names to look for: Hercules, Humber, AMF-Hercules, Robin Hood and quite a few others. To me the British bikes and the older Schwinns always stand out in a crowd.

Aaron :)

I took road fan's advice and measured myself per the instructions at "rivbak" for bike frame size/saddle height. I am 88 cm.

I saw a 27" schwinn posted for sale on the link cycleheimer gave me. It's in Tucson (for $150) and looks like it's in good shape. When I was in high school, I had a schwinn varsity and I am pretty sure my mom had a green schwinn breeze! I recall numbers such as 26" and 27" for frame sizes. Is that as big as the frames get on these bikes?

I also read on "rivbak" that people prefer a higher handle bar height. I do want to sit up straight (for comfort and so I can get a good look around!) so I would like a frame big enough to allow me to raise the handle bars.

Given my measurements, does it sound like a 27" will do it? Do I need to pay attention to wheel sizes? Should I look for 19". What other measurement numbers should I keep in mind for my size as I shop???

Thank you, everyone, for your very appropriate advice!

Nope. Don't trust sellers sizing regardless. Most of the time, sellers are looking at the number on the side of the tire, or just guessing. I rarely if ever find a seller that gets the size right. I have bought quite a few used bike in the last few years, and maybe 1% of the time does the seller get the size right. Anymore, I just ignore the size listed in the ad, or given to me verbally by the seller.

You are better off calibrating your eye (study pictures of bikes, and you can quickly guess pretty close) and take a tape measure with you. I have not heard of a Suburban or Breeze in those sizes. But I am not a Schwinn expert.

26 or 27 inch frames are rare and HUGE, and too big for you unless you are about 6-4 plus. Women's style frames commonly topped out at around 21 inch. I would like to see a women's style 27 inch frame. That would be something!

Go to a bike shop and try out a couple of bikes. Sizing over the internet is inefficient at best, and probably wrong. If I was to guess, I would put you on a 24 inch frame bike, maybe a 25 inch. It is more common for someone 5-11 to be on a 23 inch size frame. I am a short legged 5-11 and ride a 22.

26 inch Breeze = 26 inch wheels, not a 26 inch frame. The Breeze came in a 17 and 19 inch frame size (at least in the early 1970s).

Here's a picture of a 25 inch frame bike:

177207

As a fellow San Diegan, welcome to C and V!

I built a small Paramount for my wife to ride, she never liked step through frames so I used a man's frame. I used tourist bars rather than drop bars. It is quite small but she is 5' 4" When I met her back in the mid seventies, she was riding a lime green Varsity.

There are a whole lot of other bikes you might consider that could be converted to tourist bars, including the Le Tours and other Japanese sourced Schwinns. There would be a definite weight advantage to the Japanese Schwinns.

Nope. Don't trust sellers sizing regardless. Most of the time, sellers are looking at the number on the side of the tire, or just guessing. I rarely if ever find a seller that gets the size right. I have bought quite a few used bike in the last few years, and maybe 1% of the time does the seller get the size right. Anymore, I just ignore the size listed in the ad, or given to me verbally by the seller.

You are better off calibrating your eye (study pictures of bikes, and you can quickly guess pretty close) and take a tape measure with you. I have not heard of a Suburban or Breeze in those sizes. But I am not a Schwinn expert.

26 or 27 inch frames are rare and HUGE, and too big for you unless you are about 6-4 plus. Women's style frames commonly topped out at around 21 inch. I would like to see a women's style 27 inch frame. That would be something!

Thanks for the clarification regarding sizes. The size issue has had me stymied and I hadn't really found a decent explanation until now.

Go to a bike shop and try out a couple of bikes. Sizing over the internet is inefficient at best, and probably wrong. If I was to guess, I would put you on a 24 inch frame bike, maybe a 25 inch. It is more common for someone 5-11 to be on a 23 inch size frame. I am a short legged 5-11 and ride a 22.

26 inch Breeze = 26 inch wheels, not a 26 inch frame. The Breeze came in a 17 and 19 inch frame size (at least in the early 1970s).

Here's a picture of a 25 inch frame bike:

177207

Thanks for the clarification on sizing. That has had me stymied for a while.

So I guess that I will be looking for a frame size of about 23 inches. Can you suggest any bike models that are relatively common in that size?

Thanks for the clarification on sizing. That has had me stymied for a while.

So I guess that I will be looking for a frame size of about 23 inches. Can you suggest any bike models that are relatively common in that size?

There are endless number of good bikes with either a 23 inch or 24 inch frame size. Pretty much every single manufacturer made bikes with that frame size, not not in a drop top bar, women's style. So you really need to consider that facet.

But again, don't trust the seller to get the size right. Instead, you will have to either get really lucky, or chase after a few deals.

When I was younger, I always preferred a man's frame (I was a tomboy and wanted to look like one!)

Now I am in my 40s and not so tomboyish and would prefer a woman's frame so I can wear skirts and be comfortable!



Luckily for you many used women's bikes can be found in pretty good condition. Unless things have changed recently without me being aware of it, they also can be purchased for less than a comparable men's bike. I hope I am not being politically incorrect here :o

There have been a few, very few step through bikes built in the 23" size. Also look for mixte frames, they will still allow the skirt and often came in larger sizes. I have a Peugeot that is a the large size and it would probably fit you fine with some modifications to the handle bars and stem. My sister is close to your height and rode if for several years. Her current bike is a 21" Hercules 3 speed. Pictures below, the blue bike is the Peugeot.

I would suggest seeing if you can find someone who is bike savvy to help you look at the bikes you find. If I were closer I would be glad to help out. Another bike to look for would be the Raleigh Sprites.

Aaron :)

http://inlinethumb24.webshots.com/45079/2069854490066886751S500x500Q85.jpghttp://inlinethumb58.webshots.com/39225/2811644800066886751S500x500Q85.jpg

Here's a blog that you may find interesting
http://lovelybike.blogspot.com/
by a cycling enthusiast writing from a woman's point of view. The author's tastes in bikes do not include Schwinns, alas, but she started with “utilitarian” bikes and covers them well. More recently, she has been getting more interested in owning/riding “performance” bicycles (of the vintage type), but she's had quite a few bicycles, and even the ones she's sold off are fairly well-documented. Style is a very important aspect of the bikes she's interested in, too.

Here's a blog that you may find interesting
http://lovelybike.blogspot.com/
by a cycling enthusiast writing from a woman's point of view. The author's tastes in bikes do not include Schwinns, alas, but she started with “utilitarian” bikes and covers them well. More recently, she has been getting more interested in owning/riding “performance” bicycles (of the vintage type), but she's had quite a few bicycles, and even the ones she's sold off are fairly well-documented. Style is a very important aspect of the bikes she's interested in, too.

You're KILLING me by posting the lovely bike link!!!! Yes. I'll take a Pashley princess, please. Green or black: I am not picky.

I see a Pashley princess listed on craigslist in Colorado for $1000. It is for a short person, though. Bummer!!!!

I had not thought to spend a $1,000 for a bike. If I find one as perfect as the Pashley, though, I just might!

I ended up talking to a local guy who had something listed on Craigslist. He told me that vintage step through bikes in my size are few and far between, but he thought that if I were diligent enough, I might find one by Christmas!

Perhaps I should try zeroing in on finding the right frame: a 23" step through loop would be ideal.

Can anyone tell me what the level of difficulty is in building a nice vintage bike from scratch? Perhaps in descending order, which are the parts that are the hardest to find? In my case, the key piece might be the frame I want. If I find that, what do you think my chances of success are to find the right wheels, tires, handle bars, etc?

Thanks for the clarification on sizing. That has had me stymied for a while.

So I guess that I will be looking for a frame size of about 23 inches. Can you suggest any bike models that are relatively common in that size?

Just to weigh in on sizing ... You've measured an 88 cm inseam, yeah, you're a tall girl! Conventional theory on frame sizing points you to a frame with a size spec 2/3 of that, or 59 cm. In inches this is 23 inches, so I agree this is a good starting point. If you get a step-through (conventional ladies') frame or a mixte (the one with the dropped upper bar that "points at" the rear axle), you'll be in a good starting point. It won't be a done deal until you've been on the bike for a little while, AFTER the fitting adjustments have been worked out (another essay). I'm glad you're receptive to the other styles of womens' bikes like the English 3-speed or mixtes like Veloria has built (the Beautiful Bicycle woman), because I think those are technically better bikes, and I personally like those aesthetics better - strange, being a Chicago native!

My only concern with those bikes is hill ability. Your views on gears seem to be evolving - first you wanted a single or 3-speed, then the gearing of a Suburban (5-speed derailleur) may be good. If you could borrow a friend's 3-speed for an hour (make sure the gears work ok!) and see if it works for you on your SD hills, that would help make your focus. Keep in mind that if it feels sluggish, that will change after all the bearings have been properly cleaned and lubed, and the tires are in a condition where they'll hold proper pressure. These bikes should feel rather light and sprightly. Less than a modern bike, but still sprightly.

If you'd consider $1000, look at Terry Bicycles (www.terrybicycles.com). Georgena Terry rejuvenated and greatly expanded the idea of a woman's bicycle, using her engineering head to figure out how to fit women in all their sizes. She still runs the company but does not own it, and hence has time to assist INDIVIDUAL CUSTOMERs, just ladies like yourself, to figure out what might be best for them. She was a big help in finding a first fast bike for Mrs. Road Fan, who is now kicking my butt on the hills. Maybe I need a Terry bike .... well, not in pink and powder blue, at least! There's also a forum there you can sign up for free, and speak to Georgena and to other women who bike. I am authorized by Mrs. Road Fan to post there on her behalf.

I KNOW she makes a mixte in your size. If it proves tough to find one on the used market, you can certainly get one there.

Thanks for the input, Road Fan. I am very happy to have all the input people have been giving me. Everyone's comments seem to be spot on.

After thinking about it, I think I am going to be compulsive (ultimately) about a bike that has the proportions that fit my body. The "downside" is my long legs. On the other hand, I also have long arms (which will make it easier to sit up straight like I want to) and broad shoulders so that even bikes designed more for a man will suit me better than the average woman. I don't think I have ever been compulsive about fit for a bike. It's funny, but even with clothes that fit perfectly, I get a whole different feel -- it's like I feel sprightly! -- no distractions.

I am totally haunted by that Pashley Princess!!!! One drawback is that I don't think there are any dealers close to me so I could try one out. I completely agree that it will take some time to find out which bike really works for its intended purpose. One pro is that a 22.5" frame is a STANDARD size for the Princess (Oh Oh -- now I am starting to rationalize!! danger. danger.)

As for the drawbacks, and there are many: The Princess seems to only come with 5 gears and it appears to be a heavy bike. With the uneven topography in my neighborhood, that means some work. Nearly every day is a great day to do outdoor activity in San Diego because the average temp year 'round is a sunny 70. One downside to that, though, is that we don't have a lot of nice shade trees lining our streets and the sun and reflected heat off pavement can really take it's toll on you.

I have also decided that my main goal for a bike is leisure, not exercise, and not a lot of sweating! I am fit and strong and can probably manage to stay that way another 20 years. Maybe I would soon adapt to a heavy bike, with few gears for use on hills (I grew up in Wisconsin and every time the snow melted in spring, even in my teens, there would be a period of a week or so when my quads would BURN from riding my bike after a winter of no biking!), but spending 4 figures on an experiment seems ill-advised.

Someone gave me a small huffy five gear, step-through bike. It is a rattle trap and even with tweaking and new brake pads, the gears don't shift well and it takes me at least 5 feet to come to a complete stop. Riding that bike, though, is how I discovered that we have hills. Somehow, I totally overlook that fact otherwise!

I am sort of leaning toward getting a basic schwinn bike -- probably a suburban after the input from this forum, with as big a frame as I can find and trying it out for a while to get a good feel for how I ultimately will use a bike (assuming there may be some discrepancies between my bike use fantasies and reality! A reality/fact gap seems to be ubiquitous). I figure I can probably find a decent vintage schwinn/raleigh with some of the features I am seeking for a little over $100 and that I would get back at least $100 in self education from it. After that, if I don't luck out by making a perfect choice from the get-go, I could probably sell it easily for at least half what I paid for it, then apply what I have learned to getting something more tailored to my needs.

Hi daisy,

Keep an eye out on San Diego Craigslist. The style of bike your are looking for pop up pretty often. This past summer I picked up and fixed up Scwhinn Collegiate, Suburban and World Tourist and a Centurion ladies style all for between $25 - $70 dollars. All cleaned up nicely and after a good overhaul which included new brake pads, cables, tubes/tires, rear freewheels and chains. So I did put in about an extra $60 or so on each bike, keep that in mind, but they are all very nice riding bikes. Sorry I don't have one to offer though, the Centurion is my daughters, I sold the Suburban to one of her friends, the Collegiate i gave to a friends daughter, and I use the world tourist as my own grocery getter/ sight seeing / cruiser beater bike.

What about a Schwinn Super Sport? I know, it has drop bars; but it's a much better frame, isn't it? I happen to have a Super Sport lady's frame with, I think, a 23" frame; and it's the second one I've found in the trash in the last few years. you can have it, but it's in NJ and not in great shape, so I'm not recommending this option. But they definitely do exist.

I prefer English bikes, though. More stylish, and lighter.

If you are worried about the weight of a Pashley, I think you also may worry about the weight of a Schwinn. I am pretty sure that they both weigh more than my Raleigh DL-1 lady tourist. The tourist only comes in 22" size, for which I am on the small side for riding it at 5'5". My much taller (5'10") sister was able to ride it just fine with a major upward saddle height adjustment. I used to live in Banker's Hill in SD years ago, and I am pretty sure that I would be able to ride up from Bankers hill (north) from downtown on a 3 speed with lowered gearing-- though coming up from the west (little italy side) would be challenging on any bicycle with any number of gears.

If you are worried about the weight of a Pashley, I think you also may worry about the weight of a Schwinn. I am pretty sure that they both weigh more than my Raleigh DL-1 lady tourist. The tourist only comes in 22" size, for which I am on the small side for riding it at 5'5". My much taller (5'10") sister was able to ride it just fine with a major upward saddle height adjustment. I used to live in Banker's Hill in SD years ago, and I am pretty sure that I would be able to ride up from Bankers hill (north) from downtown on a 3 speed with lowered gearing-- though coming up from the west (little italy side) would be challenging on any bicycle with any number of gears.

I'll have to check out the Raleigh DL 1 lady tourist.

I have been checking almost every site I can find with bikes and am kind of striking out.

I live in University Heights, just northeast of Bankers Hill. I would imagine riding down Park Blvd to downtown or through Hillcrest, then down through Bankers Hill to downtown via 6th or 5th. (I would NOT think of attempting going from Mission Vally up via Texas St! I got stuck once on Laurel St coming up from the airport in a manual transmission and had to back down, but then again, I normally don't drive a stick!)

How long since you've been back to San Diego? It has changed so much in the past few years I sometimes get lost (literally) downtown because some neighborhoods have been COMPLETELY rebuilt. Parking down there is a nightmare and very expensive (still free for 3 hours at Horton Plaza, though): One reason a bike would be nice!

I was in San Diego from 1999-2002 for a masters program at SDSU, and things were beginning to change quite a bit around that time. I have since been back for a wedding, and places that used to be kinda sketchy are now much more gentrified (like North Park, for instance). I did not get downtown, though.

Certainly going down 5th and 6th or park blvd will be the way to go when heading back and forth from downtown. I know what you mean about the steepness of Laurel street, I used to sometimes walk down that way to go to the Casbah to see a show, and not only was is difficult to walk up the hill home, it was rather unpleasant passing under I-5.

I lowered the gearing way down on my DL-1 using a 24 tooth sprocket in the rear, and with that, I can climb most reasonable hills.

DL-1 Lady versions are not as common as their male counterparts, but not super rare either. Many times, people don't know what they are called, so searching using DL-1 or tourist keywords may lead you to missing some listings. Mine was listed on CL as just a raleigh 3 speed. Good luck with your search!

Welcome to the forum,

Lots of good advice flying your way so might not be anything new but her goes....

Spread the word about what you are looking for around the town. Something might pop out of the woodwork. It sounds like you might have settled on Schwinns, 5 speed, lg frame. All good choices. Schwinns were built to last . 5 speed geared bikes with derailers will work on most hills because of the wider range of gear choices. easier to get a comfortable fit on a lg frame then a smaller frame.

Visit all the bike shops ( maybe with a friend ) and ask for guidance. Keep them on track with what you want. No letting them sell you a new bike if you want VINTAGE.

Save a little more if it means you find a nicer bike that does not have the need for too much work. You can always change component out for higher end parts.

Enjoy the ride !

ooooooooh! I found my bike. It's not a Pashley Princess, but it is close.

Here is the description from Craigslist (I tried, but failed to copy the photos!)

This English Roadster, or Loop frame bike is the classic early originator to the famous Dutch-style bike, with the tall, 28" wheels...Comes in the original, Jet-Black finish with all chrome, and decals, present..This ladies / womens step-through frame, is 22 inches,(bb, to top of seat tube) and comes with a Sturmey Archer 3-speed internal hub. The gears are housed inside the back wheel-hub, and are never exposed to the weather or visible to the eye..The 3-speed shifter sits atop the handle bars.. The (drop) rims are the old Westwood style design to accommodate the position of the rod-brakes.. These bikes have no brake-cables but rather a series of connecting, 'rod-brakes' and spring loaded., 'roller-bars'.. These press onto the tops of the rims (along side of the spokes) rather than onto the sides of the rims.. The Saddle is a Brooks B-83, with 3-coil spring in chrome and the top leather has been worn smooth with age, to a very dark chestnut brown.. This bike is in fine mechanical condition, and could look fantastic in traditional cream colored tires..Also I have the matching, Mens version of this bike I will be posting soon.. Thank you for your interest..


Trouble is, I am not sure it is still available, AND, the bike is outside of San Francisco, and I am hundreds of miles away in San Diego. I'd drive up there to get it, though, if I knew it would work!

http://i584.photobucket.com/albums/ss286/brian3069/3k83m73l25V45T05S3ab4b4c167ee92251c1c.jpg

http://i584.photobucket.com/albums/ss286/brian3069/3k83m73l25V45T05S3ab4b4c167ee92251c1c.jpg

yep. That's it!!!!!

Those bikes are old. Even the new ones are built to an old spec. Be ready to be your own mechanic. But they're not bad bikes. The brakes are persnickety.

The woman who writes the lovelybike blog would probably be willing to weigh in here. You should invite her. She may have some good advice for you.

http://i584.photobucket.com/albums/ss286/brian3069/3k83m73l25V45T05S3ab4b4c167ee92251c1c.jpg

hey Brian:

How'd you find that posting so fast. I've got a thing or two I need to learn about searching. I was search craigslist the old goofball way by going from city to city. (then I looked back at the post that used the jaxed mash thing.) I need to practice.

http://i584.photobucket.com/albums/ss286/brian3069/3k83m73l25V45T05S3ab4b4c167ee92251c1c.jpg

hey Brian:

How'd you find that posting so fast. I've got a thing or two I need to learn about searching. I was searching craigslist the old goofball way by going from city to city. (then I looked back at the post that used the jaxed mash thing.) I need to practice.

You can limit your search to a particular site with google. Do it this way:

ladies three speed bicycle site:sandiego.craigslist.org

You get results very fast but do it several times because someone may have used womens instead of ladies, etc. The results are from a cache that google built a day or two ago, so you don't get up-to-the-minute stuff.

A google alert is where google searches for you every day and emails the results. Very useful. I kept this a secret from bikeforums for a long time before divulging it.

hey Brian:

How'd you find that posting so fast. I've got a thing or two I need to learn about searching. I was search craigslist the old goofball way by going from city to city. (then I looked back at the post that used the jaxed mash thing.) I need to practice.


I don't know any magic, just assumed it was posted on the S.F. Craigslist

If you are worried about the weight of a Pashley, I think you also may worry about the weight of a Schwinn. I am pretty sure that they both weigh more than my Raleigh DL-1 lady tourist. The tourist only comes in 22" size, for which I am on the small side for riding it at 5'5". My much taller (5'10") sister was able to ride it just fine with a major upward saddle height adjustment. I used to live in Banker's Hill in SD years ago, and I am pretty sure that I would be able to ride up from Bankers hill (north) from downtown on a 3 speed with lowered gearing-- though coming up from the west (little italy side) would be challenging on any bicycle with any number of gears.


alr: is the bike in the photos above the one you had when you were in San Diego??? I am in the process of trying to complete the purchase of it!!! I spent all day looking for bikes, and this was the only one I saw with a frame large enough for me. AND, I love the style.

I hope the purchase works out!

daisy,

I've only skimmed through this thread, but can say that I would recommend a vintage DL-1 over a Pashley for a woman of your height. Pashley's geometry seems to be better suited for petite women, which is one reason I ultimately sold mine. And I don't know whether this has been discussed here yet, but if you do get a DL-1, I recommend installing a coaster brake (http://lovelybike.blogspot.com/2010/07/coaster-roadster.html) on the rear wheel to supplement the (in my view, insufficient) rod brakes.

If you are willing to buy a new bicycle in the Pashley's price range, have a look at Gazelle and Batavus as well: They come in large frame sizes and have 28" wheels. And if you can stretch your budget further still, consider the Rivendell Betty Foy - which has just been released in a large frame size with 700C wheels. It is a mixte, but the step-over is lower than on vintage mixtes - almost as low as a step-through. Plus the bicycle is light and derailleur geared, for handling long distances and hills.

As for vintage mixtes and 3-speeds other than the DL-1, in my experience it is very difficult to find one with a large frame. Unfortunately, I know next to nothing about vintage Schwinn, so can't comment on those.

Best of luck with your search and I hope you find something wonderful!

daisy,

I've only skimmed through this thread, but can say that I would recommend a vintage DL-1 over a Pashley for a woman of your height. Pashley's geometry seems to be better suited for petite women, which is one reason I ultimately sold mine. And I don't know whether this has been discussed here yet, but if you do get a DL-1, I recommend installing a coaster brake (http://lovelybike.blogspot.com/2010/07/coaster-roadster.html) on the rear wheel to supplement the (in my view, insufficient) rod brakes.

If you are willing to buy a new bicycle in the Pashley's price range, have a look at Gazelle and Batavus as well: They come in large frame sizes and have 28" wheels. And if you can stretch your budget further still, consider the Rivendell Betty Foy - which has just been released in a large frame size with 700C wheels. It is a mixte, but the step-over is lower than on vintage mixtes - almost as low as a step-through. Plus the bicycle is light and derailleur geared, for handling long distances and hills.

As for vintage mixtes and 3-speeds other than the DL-1, in my experience it is very difficult to find one with a large frame. Unfortunately, I know next to nothing about vintage Schwinn, so can't comment on those.

Best of luck with your search and I hope you find something wonderful!

Thank you, Veloria, for weighing in.

I read your blog after the good people on this forum told me about it.

Your idea about installing a coaster brake sounds very sensible. It does not get very wet here in San Diego, but cars are king and all other forms of mobility must bow to (and STOP) for them, so a functional braking system is a must. Thank you also for your blog posting about changing the gear ratios to facilitate hill climbing.

The person selling this bike told me that he has some oval brass ??oil lamps?? to go with it. He told me they had red and green lights on the side (similar I guess to nautical lighting systems). Do you know anything about these? It sounds enchanting.

Daisy, if you like the English Roadsters, you might also want to look into the various third world alternatives. Flying Pigeon is a huge Chinese manufacturer, and you can get a brand new Flying Pigeon roadster --an exact copy of an old English one -- for like $200 on ebay. Eastman, in India, is similar. Google "Eastman Roadster" and you'll find a dealer that sells them for $400, and you can get the 24" ladies frame.

Daisy101,

I currently (in Seattle) ride a bicycle identical to the one in the photo (with the gearing lowered). Back when I lived in San Diego, I had a different bicycle-- but I did ride downtown from time to time from bankers hill.

Since it pretty much never rains in SD (and as you intend this for a pleasure bicycle, I don't imagine you would intend to ride in the rain much), I don't think the rod brakes are a huge problem. When well adjusted, they stop pretty well when it is dry-- they hardly stop at all when the rims are saturated with rain. This is why I am now going to great lengths right now to make my DL-1 more rain worthy-- I am upgrading to alloy rims and I am considering a coaster brake, though I have been warned (in a thread I started yesterday, in fact) that I may strip my cotters (in the cranks) if I need to make an emergency stop with the coaster brake. I still haven't completely decided whether I will go for a coaster brake or not.

Daisy, if you like the English Roadsters, you might also want to look into the various third world alternatives. Flying Pigeon is a huge Chinese manufacturer, and you can get a brand new Flying Pigeon roadster --an exact copy of an old English one -- for like $200 on ebay. Eastman, in India, is similar. Google "Eastman Roadster" and you'll find a dealer that sells them for $400, and you can get the 24" ladies frame.

rhm: I did look into the flying pigeons, but I could not tell much about the quality. The posts I saw about flying pigeon alleged it was of sub WalMart quality (about the worst you can say!). I cannot tell if that is accurate feedback. It is hard to know whether someone with a vested interest in selling English or Dutch made versions for much more is unfairly maligning the Chinese/Indian made products.

China often gets a very bad wrap for quality. However, it is notable that they also have some of the most modern factories and production systems in the world and are able, when they wish, to produce very high quality products at a relatively low cost.

Chinese made goods are of all quality levels. Some is crap. As you know, Apple computers are made VERY well, and they're made in a Chinese factory.

I don't know how good the Flying Pidgeon is.

rhm mentions a 24" frame. That sounds like a better size than 23" for you.

Tom

rhm: I did look into the flying pigeons, but I could not tell much about the quality. The posts I saw about flying pigeon alleged it was of sub WalMart quality (about the worst you can say!). I cannot tell if that is accurate feedback. It is hard to know whether someone with a vested interest in selling English or Dutch made versions for much more is unfairly maligning the Chinese/Indian made products.

China often gets a very bad wrap for quality. However, it is notable that they also have some of the most modern factories and production systems in the world and are able, when they wish, to produce very high quality products at a relatively low cost.

Daisy,

I agree with all of the above.

The Yellow Jersey website give a colorful description of the quality of the Eastman Roadsters, and I knowing nothing would tend to presume it applies more or less to the Flying Pigeon ones. There are problems, most of which would be solved by proper assembly and lubrication. Certainly China has very modern factories; but there are also factories that are still using the same machines as they had before the war; and the odds are, that's where they're making the roadsters.

If you like the idea of a roadster, I would definitely recommend finding an old English one if you can; but if you are impatient, or if size is important, the 24" Flying Pigeon is an immediate option. Either way, plan on becoming your own mechanic; these things are too old fashioned for most of the guys working in the local bike shop.

Daisy,

I agree with all of the above.

The Yellow Jersey website give a colorful description of the quality of the Eastman Roadsters, and I knowing nothing would tend to presume it applies more or less to the Flying Pigeon ones. There are problems, most of which would be solved by proper assembly and lubrication. Certainly China has very modern factories; but there are also factories that are still using the same machines as they had before the war; and the odds are, that's where they're making the roadsters.

If you like the idea of a roadster, I would definitely recommend finding an old English one if you can; but if you are impatient, or if size is important, the 24" Flying Pigeon is an immediate option. Either way, plan on becoming your own mechanic; these things are too old fashioned for most of the guys working in the local bike shop.

I only have experience with a flying pigeon rack, which I put on my DL-1, and like the colorful description from yellow jersey of the Eastman, my rack came to me new and rusted with not the best paint job.

The Eastman roadster from yellow jersey also comes in a ladies 24" and it is a more faithful "copy" of the DL-1.

Chinese made goods are of all quality levels. Some is crap. As you know, Apple computers are made VERY well, and they're made in a Chinese factory.

I don't know how good the Flying Pidgeon is.

rhm mentions a 24" frame. That sounds like a better size than 23" for you.

Tom

Hi Tom:

If I had to err on size, I think I would err on something being just a bit too big. I doubt the 24" could be TOO big. The only time I actually rode a bike that was clearly too big for me was when I used a bike of my ex-husband's. He is 6'7" and I had to ride his bike once for emergency transport. I didn't have any tools to lower the seat, so I had to stand to pedal. I didn't get too far!

I googled the Eastman Roadster and was not able to ascertain much about quality....

If the DL-1 does not work out, the Eastman Roadster will likely be my next effort.

With all the bikes out there, I was shocked to find how relatively limited the options are for someone with my proportions for the kind of cycling I wanted to do.

I am glad people like Veloria are interested in working to improve the sporting goods options for women. I am sure it's a very good business move, too. Taking a bike basically designed for a man and painting it pink or powder blue and putting some hibiscus decals on it does not a ladies bike (or bike for older people or people with hip problems) make! Furthermore, there are soooooooooo many sporting goods options for men that the competition must be fierce. By contrast, the options for women are so few that there is bound to be unmet demand.

When I mentioned a colorful description of the quality, I was referring to the following which I have pulled from http://www.yellowjersey.org/EASTMAN.HTML (http://www.yellowjersey.org/EASTMAN.HTML)

"Eastman Roadster bicycles are not at all like the modern bikes we know today. They are long, slow-handling and noisy. Noisy because full metal chain cases chronically rub the chain. Or rub your spokes. Finish is mediocre. That includes the black enamel, the hand striping, the stickers and the brightwork. The factory is not climate-controlled, so there will be rust under both plating and paint. Fortunately the stickers peel off easily. Steel rims do not brake well in dry weather. Steel rims do not stop when wet. Handlebar and stem are one-piece brazed and not adjustable. Those who know and ride Roadster bicycles are smiling at this point. None of those things will bother them much. If those foibles are a concern to you, perhaps a Roadster is not your best choice of bicycles. "

That IS funny, rhm.

I had the chance to work on one of those bikes about 30 years ago. I think it was the Indian one, but it might have been the Chinese one. It was definitely inferior. The design was identical to the Raleigh. The little things like nuts and bolts were not made to the same tolerances. Just as bad, they were made of softer steel than I was used to, so they would strip or round off easily.

Since the design hasn't changed in a long, long time, I'll bet good money that the manufacturing standards for this model has not gone up in China or India.

Another amusing thing is that these bikes are big. The English are tall, but Indians and Chinese are not, so there must be literally millions of people riding bikes too big for them.

daisy, I agree that there aren't enough options for women like you. But you're being very thorough. With enough patience, you'll end up with at least one lovely bicycle. I suspect you do have the required patience. And I'll keep an eye out for you, even though I'm on the wrong coast.

From what I hear, the Eastmans and Flying Pigeons are not really serious options if you need a reliable bike on streets with American traffic. That is not to say that they are worse quality than the new big-name bikes we see in shops today. But their parts are harder to get, and most mechanics - even those who will work on English 3-speeds - are unwilling to work on them.

A basic Gazelle 3-speed bicycle (http://www.gazellebicycles.us/brands/gazelle-bicycles/classic-dutch-originals?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage_gazelle.tpl&product_id=53&category_id=12) - with rack and dynamo lighting included - costs $850, and I would recommend that over the Eastman and Flying Pigeon bikes. The Gazelle comes in a 57 frame size - which is larger than the equivalent size on a DL1 and is meant for tall Dutch women.

Has anyone recommended Linus?