Touring - Trek 7300 vs Specialized A1 or Sirrus

Does anyone have any experience with either of these? Looking for a bike that is effecient for long road trips but don't won't a raod bike. Thanks;)

Originally posted by gabiker
Does anyone have any experience with either of these? Looking for a bike that is effecient for long road trips but don't won't a raod bike. Thanks;)

The Sirrus line are road bikes with flat bars. What makes them road bikes is their light weight, skinny, slick, high-pressure tires, rigid forks, and light road wheels.

Trek makes similar flat-bar road bikes -- the 7500FX and 7700FX -- but the 7300 isn't one of them. The 7300 is a hybrid, and it's generally heavier, with fatter tires, heavier wheels, and more comfort features, including a low-end suspension fork, something that's pretty useless for long road trips.

Specialized has about 8 models with "A1" in the name, so I don't know which one you mean.

Besides light weight and road tires, most road bikes have drop bars because they offer a wider variety of comfortable hand positions, which is very important on long rides, and because they offer a more aerodynamic posture which is very welcome when doing 70 miles into a 20mph headwind.

What puts a lot of people off of drop bars is that today most road bikes have the bars set too low, racing style, which suits few normal people. If the tops of the drop bars are at the same height your flat bars would be, you can be just as comfortable while still having the drops available when you need them.

But plenty of people tour and do charity centuries on flat bar bikes. The Sirrus or the Trek FX models are both good choices. Pick the one that fits.

RichC

Rich,
So I am assuming you would stay away from the A1. The one I was looking at today is not even on their website yet, but it is like the middle of the road for the A1's. The Sirrus I was thinking about is actually the low end, strictly because of budget and I can pick it up for about $100 less than the Trek 7500FX.

The A1 was really a nice bike though, however I don't know how it would be on a 50-60 run.

Thanks,
PF

Oh yeah while at it what about the Jamis Coda or Tangier. Sorry I didn't include that in my origianal.

Thanks again,
PF

Originally posted by gabiker
Rich,
So I am assuming you would stay away from the A1.

I still don't know which bike you're referring to. There are A1's in the Sirrus line, A1's in the Allez road bike line, and A1's in the S-Works road bike line.

RichC

Originally posted by gabiker
Oh yeah while at it what about the Jamis Coda or Tangier.
PF

The Coda is more like a Sirrus; the Tangier is more like a regular hybrid such as the 7300. The Coda is significantly lighter with narrower tires, but uses parts at least as good.

Based on the specs I'd personally prefer the Coda as a road bike, but I haven't ridden any Jamises. I hear good things about them, however, especially in terms of bang-for-the-buck.

The best value in a bike is the one that fits best, of course. No bike is a good buy if it hurts when you ride it.

RichC

Rich,

I am sorry about that. The 2 Specialized I am talking about is the Sirrus A1 and Crossroads A1. Of course the Crossroad is a hybrid and that is probably the decision I am trying to make is to more towards a road bike or a hybrid. Like I said the Crossroad I looked at yesterday isn't even on the web site yet but it resembeled the Sirrus with the exception of a little wider tires and a suspension front fork. Specialized does list their Sirrus line under hybrid and road bikes. Thanks for all your help so far.

Pat

Originally posted by gabiker
and that is probably the decision I am trying to make is to more towards a road bike or a hybrid.

Hybrids are designed to be comfortable bikes for easy rides for people who don't ride much, or are new at it. They sacrifice speed and efficiency for comfort. They're intended for use not just on pavement but also on dirt and gravel trails that aren't too rough.

Road bikes are designed to be fast and efficient on paved roads. They are designed to be comfortable for people who regularly ride long distances.

The longer and farther you ride, the more likely the "comfort" features of a hybrid will actually work against you. The wide, soft seat will chafe. The suspension will steal energy. The fatter tires will slow you down.

"Flat-bar road bikes" are a compromise for people who simply can't or don't want to deal with drop bars. They also tend to be a bit cheaper than drop bar bikes because road levers are relatively expensive. They sacrifice the aerodynamic potential and multiple hand positions of drop bars in favor of... whatever it is the flat-bar rider is looking for.

Of all the bikes you mentioned, based on spec I liked the Jamis Coda the best because it's most like a touring bike, and I think touring bikes are the most versatile and practical transportational bikes made. Robust enough tires to handle rough roads but still very roadworthy. Able to mount racks and fenders, front and rear. 36-hole wheels with 14/15 butted spokes. Name-brand parts and decent grade of components throughout. Indeed, I wasn't aware of this specific bike, so thanks for pointing it out.

How much was it selling for?

However, somewhere along here you have to ride the bikes and see what feels best. Fit is paramount, far more important than any details of spec or design. Besides, you're going to have to ride it, not me! :p

RichC

Originally posted by gabiker
Looking for a bike that is effecient for long road trips but don't won't a raod bike. Thanks;)

Why don't you want a road bike? I'm not trying to be a jerk, but I don't understand the idea of these flatbar roadbikes. If you're doing long distances you are going to want multiple hand positions. If you go with the flatbar you'll have to add bar-ends just to get another hand position.

If you're looking at a Jamis dealer, I think both the Nova and the Aurora are better choices. The Coda is a nice bike, probably the nicest spec'd hybrid that I know of, but I think a dropped bar bike is a better choice. The handlebars on the Nova and Aurora are set high for comfort but you still have the drop section for when you need to be more efficient.

Personally, I love my 2001 Trek 7600FX. I went shopping with the initial intent on getting medium/low end ($1000 or less US road bike).
I've never thought of it as a flat bar road bike. My ride just doesn't seem as fragile. Those carbon forks that are popular now seem pretty sexy though. I didn't want a roadie partially because I was afraid I'd break it and I saw a roadie awkwardly trying to maneuver our of a traffic jam and I thought no.
I pondered another mountain bike but I wanted the speed that I was lacking in my last two mountainbikes.
If you're looking for an urban ride and don't care about suspention then this bike is the best of both worlds. I haven't tried the 2002 Trek FX models yet. I'm tempted to take one for a spin if the snow ever clears up.

I wouldn't be too quick to trash hybrids. I guess it depends on brand and model, but as Madcat says, they can be the best of both worlds.

I've got a Giant Innova, an older one, steel frame without the suspension, solid seat post, and it's a geat bike. I've done a few MS 150's on it and some metric centuries, as well as commuting, and its handles it all. Even some light off road.

I got it as my first "serious" bike, and it has served me well.

Originally posted by MadCat
I didn't want a roadie partially because I was afraid I'd break it and I saw a roadie awkwardly trying to maneuver our of a traffic jam and I thought no.


That's what gets me so boiled about the way the bike industry has "disappeared" the really practical road bikes. There is nothing fragile about cyclocross or touring bikes. These are machines intended to take the incredible beating of 'cross racing -- or to be reliable and comfortable over thousands of miles of loaded, unsupported tekking through the middle of nowhere -- but as far as Buycycling Magazine and most bike shops are concerned, they don't exist.

The only road bikes anybody ever sees are the superlight racing bikes with 20c tires and 6" of drop to the bars, or the lesser bikes made to emulate them. And so now we get these flat-bar road bikes which exist in the exact niche where touring bikes and all-rounders used to dominate, and it's not because people really want them, mostly. It's because for some unfathomable reason the industry doesn't want to sell touring bikes.

Touring bikes are road bikes. Cyclocross bikes are road bikes. Take a look at something like the Bianchi Volpe -- $900 for what may be the ideal commuting bike if you have a lot of miles to cover.

[/rant]
RichC

I'm not putting hybrid bikes down. In fact I think they are a better choice than the MTBs that I see many people riding. In urban traffic the hybrid design makes perfect sense. In this setting the flat-bar is all you need because you'll want a upright position and the braking and shifting controls at your fingertips at all times.

However I think the dropped-bar bike is better for all around riding. The flat-bar road bike seems to be something new the manufacturers have devised. They differ from hybrids by having racing bike wheels with 32 or fewer spokes and skinny tires. This makes them less suited to urban riding and the flat-bar makes them less suited to general road riding. I just don't see the niche these bikes fill. The only reasonable explanation is that some buyers are intimidated by the dropped bar. If it gets more people on bikes I'm all for it. I'm just interested in the reasoning behind these bikes.

I am 49 years old and have not been back into riding for that long and the problem I see with the drop down bars would possibly be my back. I feel like most of the time I would be in the most upright position anyway.

Another consiration is cost. Most hybrids and a lot of the flat bar road bikes are considerably less money than the roadies. I know we are not comparing apples to apples, but quite often it does just come down to plain ole economics.

Originally posted by gabiker
I am 49 years old and have not been back into riding for that long and the problem I see with the drop down bars would possibly be my back. I feel like most of the time I would be in the most upright position anyway.

Well, I'm 50, and I have bone spurs in my lower spine, and I can tell you that I feel less pain riding my road bike than I ever did on a hybrid. Obviously everyone's different; for some folks, a recumbent would be the best thing for their back. But it's not automatic -- far from it -- that upright posture is better for your back when riding a bike. The opposite is more likely to be true. On a properly fit road bike you bend at the hips, rather than bending your spine. Distributing your weight more evenly puts less pressure on your spine and lumbar. You take shocks with your legs, not your back. (There's a reason these upright bikes tend to come with suspension seatposts.)


Another consiration is cost. Most hybrids and a lot of the flat bar road bikes are considerably less money than the roadies. I know we are not comparing apples to apples, but quite often it does just come down to plain ole economics.

I don't know that this is really true, although it often looks that way in bike shops. The bikes we've been discussing -- Sirrus and 7500fx and Coda et al -- are well into the $600+ range, where there are plenty of decent road bikes of comparable quality. If you're talking about $300 bikes, then sure, it's hard to make a credible road bike to sell that cheaply.

RichC

You have some very good points here. The main thing I am going on here is the comfort of the old 10 speeds and that is probably not fair. I guess the only way to tell is to ride road bike for awhile.

Originally posted by gabiker
I am 49 years old and have not been back into riding for that long and the problem I see with the drop down bars would possibly be my back. I feel like most of the time I would be in the most upright position anyway.

Another consiration is cost. Most hybrids and a lot of the flat bar road bikes are considerably less money than the roadies. I know we are not comparing apples to apples, but quite often it does just come down to plain ole economics.

Thanks, that seems like a reasonable explanation. I ride a MTB with slicks on it so I guess i shouldn't talk. Personally, I'd go with the Jamis Coda. I like the components and the polished steel frame. I don't think you should exclude road bikes though. Maybe test ride a couple and see what you think.

Now wait a minute here. First you were the advocate for road bikes now you tell me you ride a mountain bike with slicks. :D What's up with that? Actually I ride a Schwinn Seirra now which is basically a MTB with slicks and higher handle bars.

I don't plan on getting rid of it either because it is great on most trails unless they are really rough and at that point I don't won't to ride them anyway.

The real reason for another one is not for real long rides. I am in a club and there are a bunch of guys that ride about 20 to 25 miles 2 or 3 times a week and I don't think I could keep up with them on my bike and maybe couldn't even on a hybrid. So I really don't know which way to go for sure.

Guess I am just going to have to try some different things out and go from there.

Thanks...

"Now wait a minute here. First you were the advocate for road bikes now you tell me you ride a mountain bike with slicks. What's up with that? "

I think you said it best when you said sometimes it comes down to plain ole economics. I really would like a touring or cyclocross bike, but instead i make do with what i have. I commute on it, ride trails and dirt roads on it and plan on doing some touring too.

And you know to do all three things you mentioned the best you can you would basically need 3 bikes. I don't know about you but I can't afford 3 bikes especially 3 high end bikes and don't know for sure yet if I want to afford 2.

Have to wait and see how it all plays out.

Well I went and road a road bike today and they just aren't for me. So I will keep looking at the hybrid or straight bar road bikes. Thanks for everyones help.

Originally posted by gabiker
Well I went and road a road bike today and they just aren't for me. So I will keep looking at the hybrid or straight bar road bikes. Thanks for everyones help.

What bike did you ride? What was it that you didn't like?

(I bet it wasn't a touring bike or anything like one. I bet it had real skinny tires. And I bet its handlebars were mounted much lower than saddle height.)

Find a Bianchi dealer and look at the Volpe. Now *there* is a great bike for people who think they want a hybrid.

RichC

Your right on all accounts. It was a Specialized Allez A1 Elite which is really a nice bike and more than I can afford. I really had to bend over much more than I would won't to on this particular bike and I wear glass's which made it even hard to see because I was looking out of the top of them.

Maybe I will try the Bianchi, because I rode the hybrid that I like there and didn't like it any better than what I already ride. In fact my bike with the wide tires rolled better and was easier to pedal than the hybrid.

So the search continues. But that is the fun of it isn't it?

Looked up Bianci and there is not dealers anywhere close to me which is an hour N. of Atlanta. According to their website there is none in Atlanta either.

http://www.specializedbikes.com/SBCBkModel.jsp?san=AllezA1Elite27&browselevel=roadbikes&ti_prd_ses=j%3DIBE%3A1009%3AIBEGUEST%3AUS%3A%3AUSD%3ADD-MON-RRRR%3AJTFUCSS.CSS%3Ajtfpfalse%3Ajtfpi-1%3A671%3A22372%3A16964968%7Eti_prd%3DBA1F5EB2D1B4A099%7Ezs%3Df%7Ezp%3D1025%7Ezo%3D-1%7Eorig%3Dus%7Ezm%3D10020%7Ezg%3D101789755620%7Eza%3D1023

Just thought I'd drop in. Is this the bike you test-rode? The handlebars are actually set at a pretty good height on this one and the A1 24. The other Allez's have the handlebars even lower.

I can't believe Bianchi doesn't have a dealer near Atlanta. That'
s just crazy.

So I was thinking, alot of what makes a roadbike faster and more efficient is the skinny, high pressure tires. I think you'd be amazed at the difference that putting some skinny tires on your current bike would make. And just out of curiousity how is the bike you're riding now set up? Are the handlebars set higher than the seat? Is the hybrid you said you tested the Sirrus that you refer to in your original post?

Sorry for all the questions.

I am not for sure the Allez model I posted is the exact on I rode, because I didn't get the model number but he said it was about a $1600 bike. Anyway his setup was that the handle bars were way lower than the seat to the point I felt sandwiched.

I didn't ride a Sirrus yet because I can't find anyone that stocks them. I think the dealer I am talking to is going to order one in my size though. The bike I rode was the Crossroads A1 Sport which is totally different than the one they have on their website other than the color. The top bar is straight and the the over all frame looks just like the sirrus.

My present bike is setup like a comfort bike but I have dropped the bars on it a little. The tires have knobs on the sides but are fairly smooth for road riding. If I by a hybrid I intend on taking the 700c X 38c tires off and putting 700c X 28c on it which are the same tires that come on the Sirrus and Jamis Coda. The first thing I need to do is find someone that has one of those 2 to ride. Thanks...

People are confusing the style of bars with the riding position.

You can set up a bike with drop bars using a fairly upright (45 degree) back. I use this for my urban commuter/touring bike. I also use bars with small radius so the drops are not too distant.

Many cross-country racing MTBs have flat bars set 6" below the saddle. riders have an almost horizontal back, and are very aerodynamic.

The US bike marketing departments want to slot every bike into a niche with a market segment, so drops belong on road bikes which are sold to fitness riders and racers. They are used only for fast sport riding, and the lower the drops the better.

Flats are used on hybrid bikes, which are sold to people who are not confident of their riding ability and want reasurance. They are used on short leisure journeys on well prepared trails and bike paths, so the bars are places at or above the saddle level.

Thats the marketing-speak, but we all know riders are more varied than that.

I was wrong about no Bianci dealers in Atlanta. The search I was doing on their website showed none, however I did one on area code and came up with several. I am visiting one on Sunday to try a Sirrus so while I am there I will check out the Bianci. I saw a Bianci Strada on the web and looks really sweet.

Well I bought a bike yesterday. I found a Specialized Sirrus Comp which is last years model and is comparable to this years Sirrus Elite. They are basically a road bike with flat bars which I found very responsive and comfortable and I got it for a great price, about $200 off the original asking price. The other nice thing about it is the store I bought it from took a lot of time to fit me, something they don't do locally. By the way I bought it in Atlanta and I live about an hour NW of Atlanta.

Thanks for everyones help and advice.

Pat

Congratulations, Pat, and have a great time with your new bike!

RichC

Maybe too late now, but the CTC magazine has a 2 page article on the Specialized Sirrius bike

Well I am thinking by to tone of you reply it is not a good article!!! I'll we see if I can find it, but it is to late. Thanks...

Just noticed your in the UK so I don't think I can get that magazine.

Brains!

Is it possible you could post a summary of the article on the Specialized bike?


Thanks,

Koffee

Yes I would like to see this too. I haven't been able to find out anything bad about them and the one I bought has top notch components including Ritchey Hubs, Deore LX drive train and Kevlar tires.

So if it is critical I would definately like to see it.

I have had a look at the website (www.ctc.org.uk) but they don't publish the paper magazine, or the monthly bike reviews there.

Basically they were saying the Sirius was an OK bike for the money, gearing was OK, accessories were OK and it is one of the few frames that can take front low riders and triple water bottles.

The main critism is that once it is fitted with mudguards and toe staps or cleats the toe of the shoe hits the mudguard, which would be downright dangerous if your foot ended up on the inside of the wheel on a sharp corner on a busy main road.

Overall it was not a rave review, but then again they would pick holes even in a £2,000/S3,000+ bike as well

I also notice the CTC sell the bike in their bike store ! So it can't be that bad (or maybe they only have one bike, the one they used for the review and are tring to offload it)

FYI - The CTC has been around for 100+ years and are the biggest of the UK cycling orginisations, conections to government, fingers in many pies.

Thanks Brains!

Well, I got that bike last weekend, and I was a little concerned. So I guess when I'm touring on it, I will let everyone know if that bike performs well or not. As long as they say the bike doesn't suck, I'm willing to take a chance on that bike.

Whew!


Koffee

I bought one last weekend as well. I don't know what model or year the tested though. I will never put mud flaps on it anyway and from what I can tell so far it is a great bike for the money. I bought last years Sirrus Comp for $699 and it is a $900 bike.

Your right about one thing and it is not just in the bike business. When these guys evaluated things they are looking for perfection and your not going to find perfection even in the higher end bikes. What I was looking for was a bike I could afford with the best possible components that I thought was comfortable. I think I found it but will let you know for sure when I have more miles on it.

There are very few bikes, even touring bikes with lots of trail, that don't have toe-intersection problems with fenders mounted on the front. Especially for riders with big feet wearing chunky MTB shoes.

I don't think this is a very big deal. You have to deflect the wheel a lot to get the fender to hit your toe, and that much wheel deflection only happens at very low -- walking -- speeds. And if you're using a regular full-wheel fender, it'll just bend anyway.

I have this "problem" on my Novara Randonee touring bike with SKS fenders. It's a non-issue.

RichC

Rich this post is primarily for you, but for some of the other guys that posted as well.

As you know I purchased a Specialized Sirrus and it was against the recommendation of many posters because of the lack of hand positions. Well I put bar ends on it and found myself riding in a position almost constantly that would put me in the brake hoods on a drop bar road bike only not quite as strecthed out. This was pretty comfortable except into a good head wind which killed me. I have enjoyed the Sirrus but all along I started thinking that maybe I made a mistake so I started looking at road bikes not for touring but just light and fun.

I bought one this week. A 2002 Lemond Zurich at a unbeleivable price and I must say I am very pleased. It is lighter faster and more comfortable than I imagined which kind of surprised me because of Lemonds relaxed geometry. I guess the transition period helped though.

The reason I am posting is for others that may read this so they maybe they will take a little more time with their purchase. I am keeping the Sirrus because it is a nice ride and I will ride it when I am with my wife or maybe on mountainous rides because of the mountain bike drive train, but the new love of my life is the Zurich.

The CTC reviews are on the whole quite realistic. They dont look for perfection, but they do look for sound design and something which works in the real world as a commuting/touring bike.

The CTC is not Bicycling magazine, and has never been persuaded by hype or marketing that something is good or appropriate when it isnt.