Electronics, Lighting, & Gadgets - Magicshine Batteries to be Recalled by Geoman

This kinda stinks, I just got my Magicshine and have really enjoyed being able to see when I commute, but I've also noticed that the battery doesn't seem to hold a charge particularly well... Then, just a couple minutes ago, I received this:




To Our Valued Geomangear Customers,

Geomangear temporarily has stopped selling Magicshine lightsets due to our
concerns regarding the safety, quality, and performance of Magicshine's
lithium-ion battery packs sold by Geomangear between July 2009 and November
2010. We have determined that these Magicshine battery packs do not meet
Geomangear's high expectations regarding product safety, quality, and
performance. We have notified both the manufacturer of Magicshine lightsets
and the United States Consumer Product Safety Commission that Geomangear
intends to voluntarily recall all Magicshine battery packs sold by
Geomangear.

We are actively working with the Safety Commission, outside engineering
consultants, and a new battery pack supplier to evaluate product recall
options for our customers. Geomangear will provide recall information and
instructions directly to our affected customers after our final corrective
action plan has been approved by the Safety Commission.

If you bought a Magicshine lightset from us between June 2009 and November
2010, please discontinue using your lightset until we are able to provide
you with an upgraded replacement battery pack. Despite our best efforts,
this process will take some time, and we ask for your patience. You can
rest assured that Geomangear has taken, and will continue to take,
appropriate steps to protect the safety of our customers, and we will stand
behind our products. We sincerely apologize for any inconvenience this may
cause you and appreciate your continued loyalty and support during this
unprecedented situation our company is facing.

Thanks!!
Geoman
This email address was given to us by you or by one of our customers. If you
feel that you have received this email in error, please send an email to
geoman@geomangear.com
This e-mail is sent in accordance with the US CAN-SPAM Law in effect
01/01/2004. Removal requests can be sent to this address and will be honored
and respected.


I guess I gotta come up with another lighting solution while I wait for the situation to be resolved...

Beat me to posting this - much as it's not what we wanted to read it's great they're doing something look out for their customers.

I agree. Now I'm glad that I went with Geoman rather than ordering direct from China. There's something to be said for customer service like this...

They don't give details about the risks one is taking for continued use. I think, however, the whole issue (and major concern!) may have started a few weeks ago here on our forums. Someone posted that while charging the battery at work, the battery pack started smoking and was fairly close to burning (he had stepped out of his office for a little while). Luckily the gentleman returned right on time and was able to disconnect the battery pack before things got worse.

They don't give details about the risks one is taking for continued use. I think, however, the whole issue (and major concern!) may have started a few weeks ago here on our forums. Someone posted that while charging the battery at work, the battery pack started smoking and was fairly close to burning (he had stepped out of his office for a little while). Luckily the gentleman returned right on time and was able to disconnect the battery pack before things got worse.

And I suppose that having a battery fail during a ride while you're depending on the light could also be a safety concern.

And I suppose that having a battery fail during a ride while you're depending on the light could also be a safety concern.

This is a common issue for most lights that all users should be aware of. Many lights simply switch off when the battery drops to a certain voltage, so its not always even a failure mode. You should ride accordingly(secondary light anytime that losing your primary would be a safety concern).
This would not be a reason to recall based upon safety issues....

If you are still using your Geomangear lights after reading this don't expect insurance companies to bail you out should the unthinkable happen.

So I wonder if charging only when I can be right there keeping an eye on it would allow me to continue using it??

Had a feeling this was comming......sigh.


So I wonder if charging only when I can be right there keeping an eye on it would allow me to continue using it??
That will decrease the chances of a possible big fire during charging. Beside that, there is also the risk of those 18650 venting while they are inside your pannier bag. I have yet to hear that happening but it can happen. When I mounted my pack, I made sure it was in it's own container made of plastic and not cloth material. I also had some fiberglass cloth wrapped around the pack before slipping it inside the container. That was a preventive measure in case it vent and start a flame.

Does anyone have more specifics as to what the failures are? Or perhaps any word on if folks will be receiving refunds or replacements?

Ouch, this hurts. I really need mine. Just ordered a Milion 200, which, dammit, was what I almost ordered INSTEAD OF the MS. Hope this is taken care of quickly, and I'll have to use mine tomorrow -- won't get the Milion until Wednesday.

I'm No longer but here are my thoughts;
a) The email (which I did not receive) is a standard disclaimer and required vs a mandatory recall by the CPSC.
b) We may or may not receive a battery. The responsibility is to notify us of the danger.
c) We could receive a new battery or a credit or nothing. The Chinese can just say screw you, as there is very little that an foreign buyer can get in terms of legal recourse.
d) My guess? Geoman will file chapter 11 and close up to avoid any possible class action suits against them. This of course would be OUR consumer right to do.
Filing will void them from having to pay out.

Of course this is just a guess on my part, but we'll see what happens.

So I'm not sure about what I should do then. I use my MS lights every day. I recharge the battery twice a day. Do I need to fork out the scratch for some other lights? They'll cost much more than the MS's. Can I just get a replacement battery somewhere else that would be compatible with my lights? Uggh! I just want to ride my bike and not worry about crap like this.

Any suggestions would be welcome.

Do I need to fork out the scratch for some other lights? They'll cost much more than the MS's.

Now you know why.

Somehow I am not really surprised.

This was posted on another forum...does any one here understand enough about these batteries to know if something like this could be swapped in...just by changing the plug??

http://www.all-battery.com/li-ion1865074v4400mahrechargeablebatterypcbmodulewith20awgbareleads.aspx

If this thing ends up stringing out, I'll be looking for a different battery source. I JUST bought this for my wife maybe a month ago and she needs it regularly to commute home safely. :(

-Jeremy

This is a common issue for most lights that all users should be aware of. Many lights simply switch off when the battery drops to a certain voltage, so its not always even a failure mode. You should ride accordingly(secondary light anytime that losing your primary would be a safety concern).
This would not be a reason to recall based upon safety issues....

If you are still using your Geomangear lights after reading this don't expect insurance companies to bail you out should the unthinkable happen.

You're probably correct that the failure that lead them to start the voluntary recall was the fire risk when charging the battery pack.

I'm sure the company will do the best they can by their customers, but it might be overly optimistic to expect them to replace the battery that they sold for $50 and the charger they sold for $10 when the total for the set was $90.

FWIW the charger has a phony UL certification on it. That doesn't inspire too much confidence in it.....

FWIW the charger has a phony UL certification on it. That doesn't inspire too much confidence in it.....
Not trying to start an argument, but can you elaborate/post source for this?
This whole thing is really a bummer; for us and for them (Geomangear). But, as they say, you pays your money, you takes your chances. There is risk involved with buying what could be cheap Chinese crap.

The UL marking has no product id number on it as all UL tested products are required to have. I brought this up in a thread here to geoman, but I got no response. I'm on my phone, so searching BF is a pain, but I'm sure you can find the post.

Can I just get a replacement battery somewhere else that would be compatible with my lights? Uggh! I just want to ride my bike and not worry about crap like this.

Any suggestions would be welcome.

I actually use my Dinotte batteries with my MS light. I have a 2-cell Dinotte battery and it is much lighter when mounted to my helmet. They also make a 4-cell battery. It works just fine with the MS.

The UL marking has no product id number on it as all UL tested products are required to have. I brought this up in a thread here to geoman, but I got no response. I'm on my phone, so searching BF is a pain, but I'm sure you can find the post.

It was on the long Magicshine 900 thread near the begininng of the year.
Page 6. Post # 146 and Post #148
http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?576697-Has-anyone-tried-the-Magicshine-900-lumen/page6

This was posted on another forum...does any one here understand enough about these batteries to know if something like this could be swapped in...just by changing the plug??

http://www.all-battery.com/li-ion1865074v4400mahrechargeablebatterypcbmodulewith20awgbareleads.aspx

If this thing ends up stringing out, I'll be looking for a different battery source. I JUST bought this for my wife maybe a month ago and she needs it regularly to commute home safely. :(

-Jeremy

That pack looks equivalent. As long as it is 7.4v at 4000 mah or higher will work. The connector should be a 5.5mm x 2.1mm in size. Personally I have yet to try a Trail Tech connector from Battery Space but it should work. It will be not as waterproof as the original, so put the connector in a water resistant bag. When I was playing with my MS tail light, I even found a DC power Jack from RadioShack that worked (lol of all place). It was a lot bigger but useable.
http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2102490

I actually use my Dinotte batteries with my MS light. I have a 2-cell Dinotte battery and it is much lighter when mounted to my helmet. They also make a 4-cell battery. It works just fine with the MS.
Hi Glynis27,

Did you have to do anything to the connectors?
What is the run time on the 2 cell?

Thanks

Rob

Colleen,

Do you think the MS charger would work or would I need to get another?
If it did work and I bought a pack that was larger would ITHEN need a different charger or it would just take longer to charge?

That pack looks equivalent. As long as it is 7.4v at 4000 mah or higher will work. The connector should be a 5.5mm x 2.1mm in size. Personally I have yet to try a Trail Tech connector from Battery Space but it should work. It will be not as waterproof as the original, so put the connector in a water resistant bag. When I was playing with my MS tail light, I even found a DC power Jack from RadioShack that worked (lol of all place). It was a lot bigger but useable.
http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2102490

It was on the long Magicshine 900 thread near the begininng of the year.
Page 6. Post # 146 and Post #148
http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?576697-Has-anyone-tried-the-Magicshine-900-lumen/page6

Thanks Colleen!

Colleen,

Do you think the MS charger would work or would I need to get another?
If it did work and I bought a pack that was larger would ITHEN need a different charger or it would just take longer to charge?

If you have not experience any charger issue problem, then the MS charger will probably be fine. If you want to be sure and have a digital volt meter, you may want to see what is the voltage of your charger. Ideally 8.4 is good. It is consider high at 8.5v. I would think 8.6v is a no no volt because this means each cell are getting 4.3 volts and that is for sure overcharging and even dangerous because 0.1 volt in LiIon cell is a big change.

So I'm not sure about what I should do then. I use my MS lights every day. I recharge the battery twice a day. Do I need to fork out the scratch for some other lights? They'll cost much more than the MS's. Can I just get a replacement battery somewhere else that would be compatible with my lights? Uggh! I just want to ride my bike and not worry about crap like this.

Any suggestions would be welcome.\

Just google the specs on the original battery and then google those specs. Plenty of inexpensive options out there. Connector is standard too and easy to source. My charger shows proper polarity for the plug so that solves that problem. I just bought a Magicshine despite all the battery "concerns" because I already knew I could source a replacement and still get an overall cheaper solution to most other setups. No big deal.

So I wonder if charging only when I can be right there keeping an eye on it would allow me to continue using it??

I am going to charge my battery outside with a surge protector plugged into a GFCI outlet. The battery will have the neoprene cover removed and inside a metal ammo box. I'll do this until a new battery can be outfitted.

I'm No longer but here are my thoughts;
a) The email (which I did not receive) is a standard disclaimer and required vs a mandatory recall by the CPSC.
b) We may or may not receive a battery. The responsibility is to notify us of the danger.
c) We could receive a new battery or a credit or nothing. The Chinese can just say screw you, as there is very little that an foreign buyer can get in terms of legal recourse.
d) My guess? Geoman will file chapter 11 and close up to avoid any possible class action suits against them. This of course would be OUR consumer right to do.
Filing will void them from having to pay out.

Of course this is just a guess on my part, but we'll see what happens.

Cheers.

178507

Kudos to Geoman for a noble first volley. Sure, this might crush them, but they seem to have been reputable in the past and seem to be stepping off in a very responsible way. Tilting at windmills? Perhaps. I hope they'll come through stronger for it -- they don't have the name recognition of Kryptonite and I doubt the resources, but maybe some good citizenry will pay off for all concerned. Time for them to shoot the moon and go big on a wave of popular acclaim for when they fix this and the baby milk and copyright piracy issues and Taiwan and.....

Any Deal Extreme folks holding their breath?

Cheers.

178507

Kudos to Geoman for a noble first volley. Sure, this might crush them, but they seem to have been reputable in the past and seem to be stepping off in a very responsible way. Tilting at windmills? Perhaps. I hope they'll come through stronger for it -- they don't have the name recognition of Kryptonite and I doubt the resources, but maybe some good citizenry will pay off for all concerned. Time for them to shoot the moon and go big on a wave of popular acclaim for when they fix this and the baby milk and copyright piracy issues and Taiwan and.....

Any Deal Extreme folks holding their breath?

EDITED:
Okay, I was bored and figured why not go to the CPSC website and see what it says about the "potential recall" of Magicshine products.
Zip, nothing as I guessed the wheels are moving slowly here.

So I called the CPSC to find out what the deal is. Fisrt off the telephone was answered in less than a minute, so our taxes are working well at this end of DC.
The agent could find nothing on any battery issue, Magicshine or Geomangear. Hmmm, so how does this system work of creating a recall, voluntary or involuntary (CPSC orders it)?

CPSC is responsible for issues of SAFETY in consumer products and not general defective designs such as the Krytonite lock problem which obviously was a design flaw.
Well, the 1st is people file complaints and CPSC looks into it.
The 2nd would be where the manufacturer will make a voluntary recall and notify CPSC. This is the case but the Geoman file is missing? Possible

So now what?
I guess we will wait and see.
I as perhaps others who bought the light, never received this email.
My thought is that the problem is a safety issue such as potential fire or explosion and maybe we don't know the whole story. Since a crappy weak battery would NOT involve the CPSC.

So somewhere in this lies the truth. I would hope Geoman can fix this and survive it. However, II personally would like a new battery or a FULL refund, wonder if Paypal covers this?
Oh well this should be my worse problem. As for the battery, I will shelve it for now.

Cheers.

Any Deal Extreme folks holding their breath?

Why would they be? They're in the business of selling stuff with fake certification marks, and keep their assets out of the reach of the US.

They simply don't care whether their stuff kills their customers or not. They've already got the dead guy's money.

I'm No longer but here are my thoughts;
a) The email (which I did not receive) is a standard disclaimer and required vs a mandatory recall by the CPSC.
b) We may or may not receive a battery. The responsibility is to notify us of the danger.
c) We could receive a new battery or a credit or nothing. The Chinese can just say screw you, as there is very little that an foreign buyer can get in terms of legal recourse.
d) My guess? Geoman will file chapter 11 and close up to avoid any possible class action suits against them. This of course would be OUR consumer right to do.
Filing will void them from having to pay out.

Of course this is just a guess on my part, but we'll see what happens.


Dude... is your glass half empty or what? Geoman has been taking steps all along and is keeping people informed best he can. He has not once turned his back on YOU or anyone that purchased from him. Now your "Guess is he will file Chapter 11?...

Do this much... sit back, SHUT UP and wait for news. He has done everything in his power to this point. I will give him my full attention at this point.

Dude... is your glass half empty or what? Geoman has been taking steps all along and is keeping people informed best he can. He has not once turned his back on YOU or anyone that purchased from him. Now your "Guess is he will file Chapter 11?...

Do this much... sit back, SHUT UP and wait for news. He has done everything in his power to this point. I will give him my full attention at this point.

ahhh, to be so naive.
Do you actually know what caused the recall? You do? Please tell us.

This so called voluntary recall IF FACTUAL applies to Safety and not batteries that do not keep their charge as expected.
For your small mind, its similar to eating a rotten apple VS eating a poisoned apple.

There may be only one situation of a problem, such as a fire which was documented on several forums or several more.
The CPSC at this time could not find anything on Geomangear, Magicshine or any Battery issue other than Dinotte from 2 years ago.
Give the CPSC a call its freer 800-638-2772 .

You see while you give them your full attention, I want answers.
If Geomangear is smart they will not answer mine or anyones as this will only hurt them in any legal rangling later.
Just wait and see it's the American way.

Remember Toyota and the Brake issue earlier this year? Millions of cars were recalled and still being repaired. You see Toyota and other companies have what is called Product Liability insurance
and Code Blue disaster plans for just that scenario. The insurance covers the cost and in fact loss of revenue.
Will Geomangear survive this? I hope so, but there have ALWAYS been issues on the battery.
Is it his fault? I will guess no, but they are responsible and as such I would like an answer to WHY the socalled recall.

How to make a 6xAA carrier work.......
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SpOx_V4CIZs

Drill a hole in the side of the carrier to use a zip tie to strain-relief the cord.

Use heat-shrink wrap to protect and reinforce carrier leads.

Avoid using carriers with 9V battery snap connectors.

The UL marking has no product id number on it as all UL tested products are required to have
Well sure enough, I just flipped over my computer mouse and there's the number you're talking about; I've learned something new today. Thanks!
And thank you Colleen for finding the other post before I could even look for it.:thumb:

Dude... is your glass half empty or what? Geoman has been taking steps all along and is keeping people informed best he can. He has not once turned his back on YOU or anyone that purchased from him. Now your "Guess is he will file Chapter 11?...


While this may seem pessimistic, I noticed when I went to their site today that there are a LOT fewer items for sale than there were when I bought my light... clearing existing inventory, perhaps? I hope it doesn't happen, they seem to be a great company, but with the founder (presumably the driving force behind the company) gone, it's very possible that they're slowly winding down. :(

It would be a loss, as they seem to have been a great company.

Listen... lets give Geoman the benefit of the doubt here. he has stepped up and gone as far as sending e-mails to many of his customers promising replacements. I called him and he told me they are close to having newly engineered battery packs ready... probably by the end of the month. Does that sound like a company ready to file Chapter 11? If he was getting ready to "tank" then why respond to anyone?... why post on forums like mtbr.com, etc explaining what is going on He has been answering the questions he can. He probably doesnt have answers to the Pessimists like "Not The Slowest" because there are some people that dont accept anything but what they want too. I would bet money Geoman will come through and work things out.

Dinotte batteries years ago had a similar problem and there was a recall on them. Maybe the exact same problem, or maybe just similar... but they didnt go out of business or "Chapter 11", etc. They also stood behind there products and made good. Here is a link to there recall- http://www.cpsc.gov/cpscpub/prerel/prhtml09/09045.html
Those packs were replaced and that company is doing well to this day.

As far as the Magicshine Battery goes. I have 3 light systems from Geoman. My oldest was purchased in Aug 2009 and the next was Jan 2010 and the last one in March 2010. I personally have not had any issues with my battery packs. Out for a 2 hour 20 minute ride last night and all packs still burning green at the end and thats with all 3 lights on high beem 100% of the time. I have always treated my packs as they are suppose to be treated. I have never run them "dead". I store them in a cool place. I charge them during the day here at my work on the day I plan to ride in the dark. My original pack has not shown any loss of battery life. That being said... one of my buddies has 2 light sets and 3 batteries. He has ABUSED his and done everything your not suppose too. He constantly runs his light till it shuts off (dead battery). He leaves them in his HOT car in the summer. He will leave his batteries sitting on the charger for days... even weeks on end. He now has 1 battery that nolds no charge, one that last maybe 45 minutes and the other is still working as it should. He will be the first to admit that HE is to blame for his battery troubles. You should NOT store your batteries in a HOT car or anyplace else that is hot. Storing in a Frig or even a freezer is a good place when not in use... yes, seriously especially if your not going to use them for long periods. Degradation of Lithium-ion batteries is strongly temperature related. The protection circuits and cells WILL be damaged if stored improperly. Also, running Lithium Ion batteries completely down is something you should never do. I have read where guys have received there MS Lights and the first thing they do is "Test" them to see how long the battery lasts. First time out they run them dead... BAD idea.

Lithium Ion batteries are dangerous. Ever since they first came out there has been hazards in both manufacturing and using them. Its a technology that is still being perfected, but the FACT is they are dangerous. From cell phones to computer batteries... there have been MANY incidents of failure. Lithium-ion batteries normally contain safety devices to protect the cells. However, contaminants inside the cells can defeat these safety devices and cause failures. Since they first came out... MILLIONS of Lithium-Ion batteries have been recalled. There should be more warnings and better instructions on how to use and care for these batteries.

Now, back to Geoman... If you have an issue with your light and have not received an e-mail from him, then try sending him an e-mail and/or call him. I did... and talked to them and was given all the information I needed. My buddy who has 2 batteries with problems was just like "Not the Slowest" and couldnt understand why he didnt get an e-mail when I told him about what was going on. I told him to drop him an e-mail or call so he did... he heard back and is now excited to be able to exchange some battery packs soon.

Posting messages like -

"a) The email (which I did not receive) is a standard disclaimer and required vs a mandatory recall by the CPSC.
b) We may or may not receive a battery. The responsibility is to notify us of the danger.
c) We could receive a new battery or a credit or nothing. The Chinese can just say screw you, as there is very little that an foreign buyer can get in terms of legal recourse.
d) My guess? Geoman will file chapter 11 and close up to avoid any possible class action suits against them. This of course would be OUR consumer right to do.
Filing will void them from having to pay out."

It was kind of shocking to see someone go off the deep end so quickly on Geoman and make those statements when he no doubt has NOT talked to them directly. Geoman is both working with the manufacture and outside of them to resolve this problem. He is not waiting for a total solution from them... he said he will make it right and as soon as he can. He told me he is hoping for the end of the month... thats just 2 weeks away. He isnt stringing us along, in fact I think he has been very proactive on this matter and is far ahead with a solution.

Now... lets try to keep things positive and before posting FALSE information about "Bankruptcy, etc" why not give them a call first!


Oh, someone has created a web page that has "Better" instructions" on how to care for your MS Batteries. If you have cared for yours differently then thats probably why your batteries are having problems. I believe 95%+ of the problems with these batteries are because they were abused at some point in there life... and it only takes 1 time of abuse.

http://home.comcast.net/~jharger1/batterycare.pdf

Listen... lets give Geoman the benefit of the doubt here. he has stepped up and gone as far as sending e-mails to many of his customers promising replacements. I called him and he told me they are close to having newly engineered battery packs ready... probably by the end of the month. Does that sound like a company ready to file Chapter 11? If he was getting ready to "tank" then why respond to anyone?... why post on forums like mtbr.com, etc explaining what is going on He has been answering the questions he can. He probably doesnt have answers to the Pessimists like "Not The Slowest" because there are some people that dont accept anything but what they want too. I would bet money Geoman will come through and work things out.

Dinotte batteries years ago had a similar problem and there was a recall on them. Maybe the exact same problem, or maybe just similar... but they didnt go out of business or "Chapter 11", etc. They also stood behind there products and made good. Here is a link to there recall- http://www.cpsc.gov/cpscpub/prerel/prhtml09/09045.html
Those packs were replaced and that company is doing well to this day.

As far as the Magicshine Battery goes. I have 3 light systems from Geoman. My oldest was purchased in Aug 2009 and the next was Jan 2010 and the last one in March 2010. I personally have not had any issues with my battery packs. Out for a 2 hour 20 minute ride last night and all packs still burning green at the end and thats with all 3 lights on high beem 100% of the time. I have always treated my packs as they are suppose to be treated. I have never run them "dead". I store them in a cool place. I charge them during the day here at my work on the day I plan to ride in the dark. My original pack has not shown any loss of battery life. That being said... one of my buddies has 2 light sets and 3 batteries. He has ABUSED his and done everything your not suppose too. He constantly runs his light till it shuts off (dead battery). He leaves them in his HOT car in the summer. He will leave his batteries sitting on the charger for days... even weeks on end. He now has 1 battery that nolds no charge, one that last maybe 45 minutes and the other is still working as it should. He will be the first to admit that HE is to blame for his battery troubles. You should NOT store your batteries in a HOT car or anyplace else that is hot. Storing in a Frig or even a freezer is a good place when not in use... yes, seriously especially if your not going to use them for long periods. Degradation of Lithium-ion batteries is strongly temperature related. The protection circuits and cells WILL be damaged if stored improperly. Also, running Lithium Ion batteries completely down is something you should never do. I have read where guys have received there MS Lights and the first thing they do is "Test" them to see how long the battery lasts. First time out they run them dead... BAD idea.

Lithium Ion batteries are dangerous. Ever since they first came out there has been hazards in both manufacturing and using them. Its a technology that is still being perfected, but the FACT is they are dangerous. From cell phones to computer batteries... there have been MANY incidents of failure. Lithium-ion batteries normally contain safety devices to protect the cells. However, contaminants inside the cells can defeat these safety devices and cause failures. Since they first came out... MILLIONS of Lithium-Ion batteries have been recalled. There should be more warnings and better instructions on how to use and care for these batteries.

Now, back to Geoman... If you have an issue with your light and have not received an e-mail from him, then try sending him an e-mail and/or call him. I did... and talked to them and was given all the information I needed. My buddy who has 2 batteries with problems was just like "Not the Slowest" and couldnt understand why he didnt get an e-mail when I told him about what was going on. I told him to drop him an e-mail or call so he did... he heard back and is now excited to be able to exchange some battery packs soon.

Posting messages like -

"a) The email (which I did not receive) is a standard disclaimer and required vs a mandatory recall by the CPSC.
b) We may or may not receive a battery. The responsibility is to notify us of the danger.
c) We could receive a new battery or a credit or nothing. The Chinese can just say screw you, as there is very little that an foreign buyer can get in terms of legal recourse.
d) My guess? Geoman will file chapter 11 and close up to avoid any possible class action suits against them. This of course would be OUR consumer right to do.
Filing will void them from having to pay out."

It was kind of shocking to see someone go off the deep end so quickly on Geoman and make those statements when he no doubt has NOT talked to them directly. Geoman is both working with the manufacture and outside of them to resolve this problem. He is not waiting for a total solution from them... he said he will make it right and as soon as he can. He told me he is hoping for the end of the month... thats just 2 weeks away. He isnt stringing us along, in fact I think he has been very proactive on this matter and is far ahead with a solution.

Now... lets try to keep things positive and before posting FALSE information about "Bankruptcy, etc" why not give them a call first!


Oh, someone has created a web page that has "Better" instructions" on how to care for your MS Batteries. If you have cared for yours differently then thats probably why your batteries are having problems. I believe 95%+ of the problems with these batteries are because they were abused at some point in there life... and it only takes 1 time of abuse.

http://home.comcast.net/~jharger1/batterycare.pdf (http://home.comcast.net/%7Ejharger1/batterycare.pdf)

This all sounds sensible to me. The truth is that we don't know what's going to happen--it could go either way. Since Geoman has demonstrated good faith all along the line with everybody they've dealt with (at least as far as I know), it seems appropriate to be supportive and give them the benefit of the doubt.

I have bought a ton of bike stuff from a lot of different vendors. Frankly I'm amazed at how many losers are hawking bike stuff; and I'm often critical of them--but Geoman has shown a rare (in this business) spark of intelligence, competence, and consideration.

Think how I would feel if I had gone to all the trouble of starting a company and getting a (seemingly) good product onto the market and building a client base and doing everything right--only to have the rug pulled out from under me in this fashion . . . let's be nice to them.

with the founder (presumably the driving force behind the company) gone
Any more info on this?

It certainly seems to be a quirky little niche with a penchant for reputability. I'm curious even more now -- from the business / citizenry / entrepreneurial war stories aspect rather than more on beating the battery issue to death.

Any more info on this?

It certainly seems to be a quirky little niche with a penchant for reputability. I'm curious even more now -- from the business / citizenry / entrepreneurial war stories aspect rather than more on beating the battery issue to death.

The guy died recently--it's not like there was politics involved.

Listen... lets give Geoman the benefit of the doubt here. he has stepped up and gone as far as sending e-mails to many of his customers promising replacements. I called him and he told me they are close to having newly engineered battery packs ready... <snip>


I hear you loud and clear. :thumb: I have only had one transaction with Geoman, so I do not have anything else to base this on. I will wait and see, giving them the benefit of have earned a good business reputation.

Thanks for the perspective - very helpful!

Yeah, I wouldn't jump to any hasty conclusions yet. I cant think of anything I would expect Geoman to do beyond what he has done. He could have easily have dragged his feet on this much longer, denied the issue, blamed the customer, etc. He has acknowledged the issue, made attempts to notify customer of the problem and says he is working on a solution. I think its fair to give him some reasonable time to find a solution. You don't want him grabbing yet another set of faulty batteries (there are plenty out there). Its going to take some testing and effort to get it right - effort he could easily just avoid and say sorry, there is no replacement.

I didnt buy my MS from Geoman (just found out about him recently), but if continues handling this matter the way he says he is going to, I will buy replacement batteries and future light from him. Vendors like this are rare and I think the community should support them when they do the right thing.

This arrived last night via email. Hats off to them, but they're a small company - lets hope they survive the hit to their bottom line.

To Our Valued Geomangear Customers,

Geomangear temporarily has stopped selling Magicshine lightsets due to our concerns regarding the safety, quality, and performance of Magicshine's lithium-ion battery packs sold by Geomangear between July 2009 and November 2010. We have determined that these Magicshine battery packs do not meet Geomangear's high expectations regarding product safety, quality, and performance. We have notified both the manufacturer of Magicshine lightsets and the United States Consumer Product Safety Commission that Geomangear intends to voluntarily recall all Magicshine battery packs sold by Geomangear.

We are actively working with the Safety Commission, outside engineering consultants, and a new battery pack supplier to evaluate product recall options for our customers. Geomangear will provide recall information and instructions directly to our affected customers after our final corrective action plan has been approved by the Safety Commission.

If you bought a Magicshine lightset from us between June 2009 and November 2010, please discontinue using your lightset until we are able to provide you with an upgraded replacement battery pack. Despite our best efforts, this process will take some time, and we ask for your patience. You can rest assured that Geomangear has taken, and will continue to take, appropriate steps to protect the safety of our customers, and we will stand behind our products. We sincerely apologize for any inconvenience this may cause you and appreciate your continued loyalty and support during this unprecedented situation our company is facing.

Thanks!!
Geoman

Let's hope that Geomangear had a solid agreement with the manufacturer about representations and warranties. Retailers and distributors need legal expertise in all their contractual relationships. Also their liability insurance.

I called him and he told me they are close to having newly engineered battery packs ready... probably by the end of the month. Does that sound like a company ready to file Chapter 11? If he was getting ready to "tank" then why respond to anyone?


No one knows the specifics of the "failures" but it sounds like charger and/or battery meltdowns not simply poor battery performance. However the recall goes back to June 2009, which means they are at least contemplating replacing the battery and or charger for every single MagicShine they have ever sold (they appeared on DX in May of that year).

If they do a free replacement that is a lot of money for battery packs and/or chargers and postage.


Additionally, some liability issues very possibly extend directly to Geo, Inc. Throughout the life of the product there have been clear representations on the website that they have instigated changes to the chargers and packs being supplied because the old ones did not live up to their standards or they felt the new one was better. The implication being Geo, Inc vouched for the very items now under recall - on more than one occassion, IIRC.

It's great they are trying to get out front of things, but I wouldnt want to be in their corporate shoes.

New UPDATE ON Geoman Website:
Common FAQs:


What do I need to do to be included in the recall?
If you are a Geomangear customer you will receive a recall notice by postal mail as soon as we have a replacement battery pack available.
When will you have replacement batteries available?
We are currently working with a new battery manufacturer but we do not have a ETA yet.
What are the issues with the batteries?
The U.S. Consumer Products Safety Commission has specific guidelines that we must follow. At this time, they do not allow us to discuss the battery issues.
What should I do with my battery now?
We recommend that you store them outside in a safe, protected place. Your recall notice will give more information.
I did not purchase my Magicshine light from Geomangear. What do I do?
You should contact the dealer where you purchased your light set. Unfortunately, we can only assist our customers.

So it looks like they Officially can no longer talk about the cause of the STOP USE recall, understandable.
Replacements are in the works.

In the meantime, we wait

I must admit the timing is bad when this is happening near Daylight Saving time and with the arrival of Winter. I bet there are more motorist smiling now that we don't all be blinding them :p

I assume that along w/ batteries they have to replace the chargers w/ the fake UL and CE labels.

New UPDATE ON Geoman Website:
C
What are the issues with the batteries?
The U.S. Consumer Products Safety Commission has specific guidelines that we must follow. At this time, they do not allow us to discuss the battery issues.
[/LIST]

So it looks like they Officially can no longer talk about the cause of the STOP USE recall, understandable.
Replacements are in the works.

In the meantime, we wait

I'm sure their lawyer has told them not to say anything, and the CPSC may have said they shouldn't, but I'm reasonably certain there's no actual authority for the CPSC to tell them to shut up. There are requirements about what the CPSC can say, but they don't apply to the firm involved.

I suspect we'll eventually learn that the problem is that the battery pack is a defective, improperly protected design, that it can catch fire, and that the chargers are fraudulently marked as having UL listing.

I'm still in the 90 day warranty/return period. Is anyone here contemplating returning their Magicshine for a refund? In the end would it be cheaper to hold on to the existing unit and plan for a battery replacement or to rebuy a brand new set?

Alternatively, the light head isn't bad and you can get a 3rd party Li-Ion pack and splice the plug from the recalled pack to it.

Alternatively, the light head isn't bad and you can get a 3rd party Li-Ion pack and splice the plug from the recalled pack to it.

I'm thinking that if the battery is this bad the light probably sucks too. Dinotte, made in the US, is starting to sound like the best option. Pay me now or pay me later.....