Classic & Vintage - Retrocarbon -- kind of an interesting little collection

http://picasaweb.google.com/norcalpaddler/RetroCarbonBikes#

That is cool. I wouldn't mind a retro carbon bike - there is a Trek 2300 on ebay that seems to be going pretty cheap right now - however, all of my rack spots are full.

http://picasaweb.google.com/norcalpaddler/RetroCarbonBikes#

that's the motivation I'm looking for: watch this space for an update...my friend has an ALAN Carbonio frameset with a slightly damaged (separating) tube/lug joint. He doesn't want to try to re-glue it, and it's not my size (I think about a 58/59)...OTOH he doesn't want to throw it away or give it to somebody who will: it's too good not to make a real attempt at a solid repair and put it back in service (for somebody else). I'm going to get his permission to take pics and get details up here...there must be somebody in C&V land who can revive this.
EDIT: pics of this frameset (it is a 58cm) are in this album:

http://s179.photobucket.com/albums/w314/unworthy1_photo/ALAN%20Fanini%20Carbonio%20frameset/
The frameset is in SF, CA and I would do the packing/shipping for my friend the owner (I do a very good job).
It has a 57.5 TT, the only other issues beside the de-bond of the DT-to-headlug are it may have had two pair of WB fittings that aren't there anymore, just 4 holes.
It's not a Freebie, but he'd let it go very cheap...so I'll post this all up in the for-sale section with the price.

I enjoyed that gallery, carbon bikes looked so much better before they went all monocoque..

Univega, theres an old plastic fantastic I've never heard of before, wonder if its just a rebadge of another companies work, looks like a giant cadex.

theres the exxon graftek
various treks
various specialized
some alan
peugeot
look (were they just alans?)
giant
I think I heard of carlton/raleigh doing one

apparently the first proto carbon bike was done in 69 right?

Univega, theres an old plastic fantastic I've never heard of before, wonder if its just a rebadge of another companies work, looks like a giant cadex.

theres the exxon graftek
various treks
various specialized
some alan
peugeot
look (were they just alans?)
giant
I think I heard of carlton/raleigh doing one

apparently the first proto carbon bike was done in 69 right?
Look did their own bikes. As did Vitus, the peugeot 3 tube carbons were Vitus.
Add mossberg to that list.

Univega, theres an old plastic fantastic I've never heard of before, wonder if its just a rebadge of another companies work, looks like a giant cadex.

theres the exxon graftek
various treks
various specialized
some alan
peugeot
look (were they just alans?)
giant
I think I heard of carlton/raleigh doing one

apparently the first proto carbon bike was done in 69 right?
You forgot one big one....VITUS!....
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y44/BeckVFR/DSC00156.jpg
Although you did mention Peugeot, but their frames were different from the Vitus models in quite a few details, even though the PY10-FC (which matched general specs of the Vitus Carbone 3) were supplied by Vitus.
I also like these regular shaped CF bikes more than the monocoque designs that came later. As for Vitus CF bikes, frankly I think that their bikes lost their elegant looks when they came out with the ZX-1. Didn't help that they painted most of them in garish colors and less than impressive graphics. To me it's like comparing the long elegant lines of an old English longbow to a modern compound desgin.
JMOs
Chombi

I remember the Exxon Graftek. It's the first carbon fiber bike I remember. What year was that? 1980 or so? It was very expensive and had the reputation of being as hard as a rock. Of course, I never got to try one.

The were a few different Specialized Allez models. The Epic version were the carbon fiber jobs. The believe the earliest ones had red names, then after those there was yellow text, and then multi-colors like the ones in the link.

I remember the Exxon Graftek. It's the first carbon fiber bike I remember. What year was that? 1980 or so? It was very expensive and had the reputation of being as hard as a rock. Of course, I never got to try one.

'75 wasnt it? I thought they had a reputation for breaking or cracking or both!

Univega, theres an old plastic fantastic I've never heard of before, wonder if its just a rebadge of another companies work, looks like a giant cadex.

The Univega's were rebadged Giants. I remember them from the mid-90s. The (only) cool thing about the Univegas is that they had Giant tint the resin so the frame tubing had a transluscent red or green tint.

The were a few different Specialized Allez models. The Epic version were the carbon fiber jobs. The believe the earliest ones had red names, then after those there was yellow text, and then multi-colors like the ones in the link.
Also note that Specialized changed the finish on the lugs when they corrected lug/tube bonding issues that came up with the early production bikes. They went from a polished silver finish on the lugs to a finish that made them look darker. Look for the darker lugs if considering to buy the Epic Carbon bike.

Chombi

I miss my 2300, albeit it was to small.

Gotta love a carbon pump to compliment the carbon frame.

http://i55.tinypic.com/b5k1ma.jpg

http://i54.tinypic.com/211tild.jpg

How were the early Specialized carbon frames?

Antique carbon fibre thread? Well, if you insist.

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b359/x136/bicycles/trek/IMG_2161.jpg

I actually didn't realize there were so many bikes constructed as such. I've never seen the Allez, Alan, Giant, or Univega

How were the early Specialized carbon frames?

They are great for flat century ride. It is like riding on magic carpet, but don't climb out of the saddle, the rear tire will rub the chain stays. I run 10 speed Ultegra on mine and it weights less then 20lbs.

They are great for flat century ride. It is like riding on magic carpet, but don't climb out of the saddle, the rear tire will rub the chain stays. I run 10 speed Ultegra on mine and it weights less then 20lbs.

Just go as small a frame you can ride with these classic CF frames and you will most likely have enough stiffness that you will need for most situations.
I went two number sizes below what my Peugeot PSV is with the Carbone 7 and the Carbone ended up actually much stiffer riding than the PSV.
The PSV rubs it's front derailleur since I got it in 84, while the Carbone is totally quiet in climbs and sprints.

Chombi.

1975 is about right for the Graftek. I don't remember the exact year without checking but it was mid-1970s. Graftek (pre-Exxon) and Mossberg both hit the street about the same time. I don't remember which but one, maybe both, was manufactured by Hercules.

In the late 1980s, carbon fibre was one of the next the next big things (along with aluminum and titanium) and most big names offered one. Notable names not yet mentioned include the Centurion Ironman Carbon, Miyata CarbonTechs, Nishiki Carbon (Alan) and the first monocogue, the 1987 Kestrel 4000.

People can say all the negative things they want about carbon moncoques but it's the only media that truly gives the designer free reign to create their vision of the perfect bicycle. Standard tubes and lugs always compromised that vision.

People can say all the negative things they want about carbon moncoques but it's the only media that truly gives the designer free reign to create their vision of the perfect bicycle. Standard tubes and lugs always compromised that vision.

I agree with this. Clearly, the engineers saw the promise of carbon fiber but were constrained in their minds by tradition frame design which used tubes and joints. We now see that a monocoque is right the right design if carbon fiber is a given.

Let's throw in the Mossberg Graphite frame just for the heck of it too.

http://www.bikeforums.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=16&d=1133389053

'75 wasnt it? I thought they had a reputation for breaking or cracking or both!+1 1975. John Howard rode one.

Kestrel was sort of the "breakthrough" on 1-piecers, like T-Mar says. They still offer a lot of bike for the bread.

Schwinn had a "PDG" that was CF, the 9C, but it was basically a rebadged Kestrel 200, I think, circa 1992.

There were also the experiments early on with phat BB shells, like the Kestrel Air Foil, the Trek Y-Foil, and some other radical-looking designs.

So how safe would you feel riding a 25 or 30 year old Carbon bike?

Are there safety concerns with old CF?

1993 Miyata Team Carbon
http://velospace.org/files/IMAG0006[1].jpg

1988 Centurion Dave Scott Ironman
http://velospace.org/files/P1100001.JPG

Not so retro, but an important "link" in the chain of CF going back, the Trek Y-Foil...
http://velospace.org/files/P1150161.JPG

I must say that I am mildly surprised by the high level of civility, interest, and knowledge expressed in this thread. It makes sense if you view the C&V avocation as a dynamic historical process rather than a specific time period or technology/material.

Do I sense that it may be time to start a "Show Us Your C&Vish Carbon Bikes" thread?

Robbie, why don't you take those three pics and start the thread. I'll post two more pics right behind.

So how safe would you feel riding a 25 or 30 year old Carbon bike?

Are there safety concerns with old CF?Some people say so. I have no problems absolutely hammering my present '88 for 50-75 miles.
http://velospace.org/files/P1150709[1].jpg

So how safe would you feel riding a 25 or 30 year old Carbon bike?

Are there safety concerns with old CF?

We cannot say that 100% of these CF bikes are perfect, but they surely are not as dangerous as those TATA matchstick constructed trucks they drive in the Himalaya foothills in India.......:rolleyes:
Going on close to 1 year already riding my 25 year old Carbone 7 I restored last yeara nd zero problems so far!:thumb:

Chombi

Some people say so. I have no problems absolutely hammering my present '88 for 50-75 miles.
http://velospace.org/files/P1150709[1].jpg

Whoa momma! Daddy like :)

That Carbon Team Miyata is hot too.

i must say that i am mildly surprised by the high level of civility, interest, and knowledge expressed in this thread. It makes sense if you view the c&v avocation as a dynamic historical process rather than a specific time period or technology/material.

Do i sense that it may be time to start a "show us your c&vish carbon bikes" thread?

Robbie, why don't you take those three pics and start the thread. I'll post two more pics right behind.
ok. it's up.

That Carbon Team Miyata is hot too.

Ditto, that Miyata is smokin' hot.


1993 Miyata Team Carbonhttp://velospace.org/files/IMAG0006[1].jpg

A friend of mine rides her mid 80's Kestrel 4000, loves it to bits. Just put 8s DA brifters on it. She has run itno some issues with paint coming off, and it's TT structural integrity is not the best (soft spots). Good thing she weighs 120 lbs...

I have a race-ready 1987 Kestrel 4000 54" with all the original Campy components, yellow gum rubber tires, dura-ace race pedals. Even the chain is original. It's not in mint condition, but it is very good given the age. I'm trying to figure out what its worth. If anybody would be able to help me figure it out (or like to buy the bike) please send me a message and I can send high-res pictures.

It's in Michigan, and I just mountain bike (Specialized 29er) a lot more and can't justify keeping it in my living room (although of bikes to have in a living room, its not a bad one!)

Thanks for the help! I'll try to get pics on the forum soon

Post your pictures and inquiry in the appraisals section of the forums, the appropriate place for such things.

Can we change the name of this site to SignUpForAnAccountToFigureOutHowMuchToSellYourBikeOnCraigslistOrEbayThenNeverPostAgain.com
?

Just saw this on VeloNews.
http://velonews.competitor.com/2010/09/gallery/tech-gallery-assos-1976-carbon-fiber-aero-track-bike_140221

1976 Assos carbon track bike:
http://velonews.competitor.com/files/2010/09/assos_visit44.jpg

I remember the Exxon Graftek. It's the first carbon fiber bike I remember. What year was that? 1980 or so? It was very expensive and had the reputation of being as hard as a rock. Of course, I never got to try one.

Hard as a rock? I'd always heard it described as a "#2 soft lead pencil". And yeah, many of the early carbon bikes had problems with joint separation and galvanic corrosion, so careful inspection is crucial (ie, don't buy one over the web).

SP
Bend, OR

Can we change the name of this site to SignUpForAnAccountToFigureOutHowMuchToSellYourBikeOnCraigslistOrEbayThenNeverPostAgain.com
?

Maybe just a little note in the reply area about appraisals not being acceptable in the general forum.

I found this thread by Googling and decided to resurrect the thread and show my fantastic Kestrel 4000. Epuipped with Campagnolo Record C and Dura Ace components, that's how I purchased the Kestrel 4k!

http://i428.photobucket.com/albums/qq4/quantumfoam_2008/Kestrel%204000/kestrel4k-2.jpg

http://i428.photobucket.com/albums/qq4/quantumfoam_2008/Kestrel%204000/DSC_0011-1.jpg

http://i428.photobucket.com/albums/qq4/quantumfoam_2008/Kestrel%204000/DSC_0003-1.jpg

http://i428.photobucket.com/albums/qq4/quantumfoam_2008/Kestrel%204000/kestrel4k-8.jpg

http://i428.photobucket.com/albums/qq4/quantumfoam_2008/Kestrel%204000/kestrel4k-12.jpg

Comparing the current crop of CF's, don't need to replace, they all look the same! Performance wise there's no denying the handling, stability and accelleration up or down our mini hills here in Illinois! :thumb:

http://www.pbase.com/kingfisher/image/141595269/original.jpg

My 1989 Specialized Allez Epic...

I guess I can post my 1986 Alan Record Carbonio on this C&V CF bike topic thread too....:D
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y44/BeckVFR/DSC02367.jpg

Chombi

Look did their own bikes. As did Vitus, the peugeot 3 tube carbons were Vitus.

TVT, as I recall, made both the Peugeot and Vitus branded frames, using Vitus lugs and dropouts.

TVT, as I recall, made both the Peugeot and Vitus branded frames, using Vitus lugs and dropouts.

They did the LOOK bikes as well. I think LOOK eventually took over production though.

Mine so far:

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8329/8081426915_bda1d95ed6_z.jpg

Back in the 70s, on the cover of Popular Science these was a carbon fiber bike. It had double seatstays- anyone know what it was?

TVT, as I recall, made both the Peugeot and Vitus branded frames, using Vitus lugs and dropouts.

The Vitus CF and aluminum frames used aluminum BB shells made by CLB as the CLB logo is cast on to its bottom. I suspect the lugs, fork crowns and DOs came from CLB too. Not sure if the did the ones on the later models like the 992 or the second gen Carbone 9s.....

Chombi

Does that Basso badged Alan seem right? Never heard of one...

I just picked up yet another Kestrel 200SCi, a 1996 model by color (green), with the appropriate group (8-sp 600 Ultegra STI, Mavic wheels). However, it has a 1" threadless fork that matches the frame, so I'm not really sure what's going on. The group was used when quill stems and 1" threaded forks were used, but the fork matches and is definitely threadless. I'll put up pics when it's presentable (tri-biking it).

Note for folks who like C&V carbon:
Aegis Systems is a defense contractor in New England. Aegis produced the first Trek Composite frames, notably the 2500, while researching monococque techniques and production. They had an internal difference about how to do this, and some employees of the group left and formed Kestrel on the west coast. The others continued to produce lifetime-warranty CF frames. I think Aegis no longer produces them, but there are some free-range frames out there. They are very nice frames. Kestrel's frames, of course, are well established, as well.