Living Car Free - Is most of the USA unliveable?

Just thought I'd throw this out.....I've been looking for a job for a year now and am finally getting interviews so I've been all over the place recently on job interviews and am really shocked by what I'm finding. I'm looking for a place to live with a 1) strong sense of community (no suburbs) 2) bike friendly layout 3) affordable cost of living if possible 4) at least some green space. You would think I'd come up with a long list but so far, I've got Burlington, VT, Northampton, MA, Madison, WI, Pittsburgh, PA, and Portland, OR on it. That's about it. In the whole USA. I live in NH and drove down the east coast corridor to just north of Philly a few weeks ago and there's nothing but traffic, congestion, concrete, and crowds for a few hundred miles. I was in Oxford, OH last week and while I could live close to my (potential) job there, there's nothing but cornfields near it for 40 miles until you get to Cincy or Dayton and I"d feel trapped in such a small town that I couldn't get out of without spending an hour in a car. Am I missing a bunch of places? I'm thinking Indianapolis, Louisvile, Cincinnati, and Rochester NY look good on paper but I've never been to any of those places.

Have you checked out Northwest Arkansas?

Bicycle Coalition of the Ozarks (http://www.bconwa.com/)

Yes

Based on a quick look at stuff on the Internet, I think I could live car free very happily in Oxford. For me, the key would be to establish some sort of connection with the university there so as to have access to the university facilities, programs and social network. Even with a combined town & gown population of only 20,000 there would be so many people there I'd never get around to meeting them all.

If you'd like to be able to make a quick getaway to a place with brighter city lights (or perhaps advanced medical facilities or something like that), you could always hang on to the car.

You mentioned Louisville. It has suburbs, but it is possible to live in the city and work in the city. Just live and work inside the I-264 loop, and it's easy.

Louisville's bike laws are pretty sensible, even if a few state laws aren't The climate here means little snow. The cost of living is reasonable. Come visit a while. :)

Chicago?

Philly is pretty bike friendly for an american city. There is plenty of green space with fairmount park. The housing is relatively cheap, its by far the cheapest big city.

You mentioned Louisville. It has suburbs, but it is possible to live in the city and work in the city. Just live and work inside the I-264 loop, and it's easy.

Louisville's bike laws are pretty sensible, even if a few state laws aren't The climate here means little snow. The cost of living is reasonable. Come visit a while. :)

Are Winters there really mild? How about Summers? Hot and humid? How many sunny days versus rainy days? Can you really ride year round without breaking out heavy duty cold weather gear?

Believe me, Piitsburgh is virtually unliveable. It's got a county sales tax tacked onto a 6% state sales tax, 3.5% local income tax, 3.5% state income tax, state auto inspection both mechanical and emissions. Amounts to state sanctioned extortion. Not to mention ridiculously high property taxes. If one lives in a borough outside the city limits and work within there's a 'work privledge tax' in addtion to a local borough tax. Usually 1%. It's exceptionally hilly and really, really rough on vehicles. Cycling is very dangerous as many of the main arteries have no shoulder at all. I lived there 10 years. Or should I say I was sentenced. The only thing I can say about Pittsburgh is that's it's obvious W.C. Fields never spent any time there.

Just thought I'd throw this out.....I've been looking for a job for a year now and am finally getting interviews so I've been all over the place recently on job interviews and am really shocked by what I'm finding. I'm looking for a place to live with a 1) strong sense of community (no suburbs) 2) bike friendly layout 3) affordable cost of living if possible 4) at least some green space. You would think I'd come up with a long list but so far, I've got Burlington, VT, Northampton, MA, Madison, WI, Pittsburgh, PA, and Portland, OR on it. That's about it. In the whole USA. I live in NH and drove down the east coast corridor to just north of Philly a few weeks ago and there's nothing but traffic, congestion, concrete, and crowds for a few hundred miles. I was in Oxford, OH last week and while I could live close to my (potential) job there, there's nothing but cornfields near it for 40 miles until you get to Cincy or Dayton and I"d feel trapped in such a small town that I couldn't get out of without spending an hour in a car. Am I missing a bunch of places? I'm thinking Indianapolis, Louisvile, Cincinnati, and Rochester NY look good on paper but I've never been to any of those places.


Please clarify? You want a place that doesn’t have any suburbs 1, with affordable living and green space? 2&4. In most cases in the US suburbs are a result of people looking for more affordable living and green space. Or are you simply saying you don’t want to consider any suburbs?
Seems to me if you simply look for bike friendly places the rest of your quest would solve itself.

Just thought I'd throw this out.....I've been looking for a job for a year now and am finally getting interviews so I've been all over the place recently on job interviews and am really shocked by what I'm finding. I'm looking for a place to live with a 1) strong sense of community (no suburbs) 2) bike friendly layout 3) affordable cost of living if possible 4) at least some green space. You would think I'd come up with a long list but so far, I've got Burlington, VT, Northampton, MA, Madison, WI, Pittsburgh, PA, and Portland, OR on it. That's about it. In the whole USA. I live in NH and drove down the east coast corridor to just north of Philly a few weeks ago and there's nothing but traffic, congestion, concrete, and crowds for a few hundred miles. I was in Oxford, OH last week and while I could live close to my (potential) job there, there's nothing but cornfields near it for 40 miles until you get to Cincy or Dayton and I"d feel trapped in such a small town that I couldn't get out of without spending an hour in a car. Am I missing a bunch of places? I'm thinking Indianapolis, Louisvile, Cincinnati, and Rochester NY look good on paper but I've never been to any of those places.

I live near Dayton and it does not fit your description as it definitely has suburbs and the city itself has it's struggles. Congestion isn't a huge problem but yeah youv'e got an hours drive or more to get to Oxford. You do have over 300 miles in MUPaths in the area so it's great for cycling. It's not in Ohio but Asheville NC fits the description of a city with a definite sense of place. It's hilly and mountainous around it, but it has the amenities of a larger city with the feel of a smaller tight knit community. Finding work could be a challenge. Louisville has suburbs but it seems to be an up and coming city. I was there last September to watch my brother race in the Louisville Ironman. I liked the downtown area. Good luck and I'm sure there are lots of cities that fit your description.

Outside magazine does an annual article about the best places to live. but people read the article, move there and then it is no longer cool ;) try finding some back issues and see if any cities regularly appear on this list. it is what i would do if i could choose where i live rather than live where I work

Are Winters there really mild? How about Summers? Hot and humid? How many sunny days versus rainy days? Can you really ride year round without breaking out heavy duty cold weather gear?

Summers are usually hot and humid. I manage.

Every winter is different. I've been here ten years. Sometimes we get nothing more than a dusting of snow through the whole winter. Other times we get several feet dumped at once. We get the occasional ice storm. We have *real seasons* here. :)

I can't answer the rain vs sunshine question. This past year has been drought conditions, so there's that. It often rains hard enough in the Spring to cause flash flooding.

I've commuted in 6F temperatures (when I had a 33 mile round-trip commute). That's not common, but it happens.

I own studded tires, but I've barely used them.

Basically the weather here is quite variable. Last December we had bitter cold for the first two weeks of the month, then a record-setting 70F for two days, then milder temperatures.

Summers are usually hot and humid. I manage.

Every winter is different. I've been here ten years. Sometimes we get nothing more than a dusting of snow through the whole winter. Other times we get several feet dumped at once. We get the occasional ice storm. We have *real seasons* here. :)

I can't answer the rain vs sunshine question. This past year has been drought conditions, so there's that. It often rains hard enough in the Spring to cause flash flooding.

I've commuted in 6F temperatures (when I had a 33 mile round-trip commute). That's not common, but it happens.

I own studded tires, but I've barely used them.

Basically the weather here is quite variable. Last December we had bitter cold for the first two weeks of the month, then a record-setting 70F for two days, then milder temperatures.

Still sounds better than New York City. We can get crazy 100F/100% summers and three months of freezing, windy Winter. Although it varies too year to year. Generally though Winters are nasty cold and windy, snow is not much of a problems. It dumps few feet couple of times and that's all.

Louisville and Tucson (AZ) come up often in different publications as good places to live.

Rochester isn't bad, aside from Winter.

Rochester isn't bad, aside from Winter.

Yeah, I heard... Four seasons in Rochester:

Almost Winter
Winter
Still Winter
Summer

Erbfarm Rochester, MN meets all your criteria and has a growing cycling community and infrastructure. We have bike paths and lanes to get to most places in town easily. It's large enough to have everything but small enough to not have traffic problems. Good economy, low housing costs (compared to any major city), low unemployment and an educated population.
Back in the mid 1990s Money Magazine designated Rochester as the best to live in America.
What type of work are you looking for?

Yeah, I heard... Four seasons in Rochester:

Almost Winter
Winter
Still Winter
Summer

That's a little unfair. I mean, our summers are just lovely.

Just thought I'd throw this out.....I've been looking for a job for a year now and am finally getting interviews so I've been all over the place recently on job interviews and am really shocked by what I'm finding. I'm looking for a place to live with a 1) strong sense of community (no suburbs) 2) bike friendly layout 3) affordable cost of living if possible 4) at least some green space.


Boulder, CO is very nice. 40,000 acres of open space and mountain parks for 80,000 residents. It gets a little cold in the winter but it's a dry cold (you can watch snow sublimate instead of melting) and it's usually sunny (300 days a year). It's a college down, the restaurant scene is exceptional, live music is OK.

The San Francisco Bay Area has great weather (I'm still riding in shorts and short sleeved jersey at midnight in the middle of November) once you get out of the city. Things are more spread out; although you can always take the caltrain (with bike cars).

You won't want to buy a single family detached home in either place, but condos/town homes are affordable within city limits in Boulder and you can rent apartments in the bay area for $1200-$1500 a month where the houses list for $1.5M.

What line of work, that would help out. And ive never heard any good things about northhampton MA i grew up near there and have family that lives in all the other hamptons but for some reason they all avoided north hampton.

Fort Worth has a nice little bike thing goin' on, along with redevelopment of the city core. I currently live in the suburbs but dream of moving closer in (the near southside perhaps). Housing prices are pretty stable because they were never outrageous to begin with. Rather than falling, they just kind of stopped appreciating for a while. They're seriously looking at a streetcar system, too. The greenspace? Branches of the Trinity River wind through the city complete with wildlife, MUPs (effective for transportation cycling), and some nice city parks alongside the river in some spots. Economy is doing reasonably well, too.

Hot in the summer but if a shower is available at work that's not too bad.

Chicago?

Yup. The last time I was in Chicago I thought to myself, "Geez, I LIKE this place. I could totally live here."

Chico

Just thought I'd throw this out.....I've been looking for a job for a year now and am finally getting interviews so I've been all over the place recently on job interviews and am really shocked by what I'm finding.

You've been looking for a job for a year and finally getting some interviews? The job market is still bad. If it took you a year to just get interviews, I would be quick to take an offer and worry about how I'm going to get to work later. Unless you have a bundle of money to keep you going without a job, I wouldn't be choosy

You've been looking for a job for a year and finally getting some interviews?

took me 3 years to find the job I have now. I was working, so i wasn't starving. but i hated every day of my job until i found this one. Job market has been terrible for more than a few years.

Chicago?
UUUUHHH NO. Only 23 days of good weather!!

But North Aurora, Batavia, Geneva and ST. Charles are pretty bike friendly.

Chicago?

Started my cycle-commuting career in Chicago over 20 years ago. Before bike lanes, 3 ft rule, Mayor Daley, Jr., etc. Cyclists were a rare species. Kind of like rats only not so plentiful. We functioned alongside the other humans. Chicago always has been a working town. It gets cold and the lake effect is brutal, but the cultural amenities, public transportation and now a more bike friendly infrastructure...one is always going to have to be aware when riding urban. It's a great city w/o the self-importance of NYC or the seediness of LA.

All things considered I'd investigate Rochester, MN. I did a couple of gigs up there in the late 70s and was very impressed w/t overall vibe of the town. Sort of like a midwestern Austin. Only way smaller.

Madison, WI, too. Same thing. College town, largely, but there was a real involved populace in the locals. They were vocal and they voted.

Not having spent much time outside of Colorado, I can only offer suggestions I'm familiar with.

Ft. Collins and Boulder would be great places. I found living in Denver to be great as well and never really had to visit the suburbs. Of course the suburbs of Denver are really hit and miss. Golden has a nice culture and community but unfortunately, not enough services are in Golden which means venturing into the sprawly suburbs.

You would think I'd come up with a long list but so far, I've got Burlington, VT, Northampton, MA, Madison, WI, Pittsburgh, PA, and Portland, OR on it. That's about it. In the whole USA.
Have you thought about Minneapolis? Big city. Voted the Most bike friendly city in America by Bicycling Magazine. Large enough so that you can find just about any type of community. Commuters trails all over and these are plowed in winter.

Of course, there is the winter... but didn't you mention something about living in New Hampshire? Minneapolis would just toughen you up.

Do you think suburbs are uniquely an american thing? Please point me to place in the world with no suburbs.

There are many livable places in the USA, it all depends on your personal lifestyle and what you consider livable. We can see this in the thread, one person believes high taxes make a place unlivable....another considers the weather (forget about Burlington in that case, hahaha)

That's a little unfair. I mean, our summers are just lovely.

Not to mention our Springs and Falls.

Whenever people say they couldn't live here because we get snow, I like to point out that snow doesn't make your house wash away in a flood, blow sway in a hurricane or tornado, get covered in mudslides, burn down in yearly wildfires, fall apart in an earthquake...

During the worst snowstorm you stay inside and drink hot chocolate. I'm failing to see how that's worse than any of the above.

Not to mention our Springs and Falls.

Whenever people say they couldn't live here because we get snow, I like to point out that snow doesn't make your house wash away in a flood, blow sway in a hurricane or tornado, get covered in mudslides, burn down in yearly wildfires, fall apart in an earthquake...

During the worst snowstorm you stay inside and drink hot chocolate. I'm failing to see how that's worse than any of the above.

I grew up in Buffalo and I can verify the accuracy of this statement.

I grew up in Buffalo and I can verify the accuracy of this statement.

And you moved to Fort Worth because you like the snow?

And you moved to Fort Worth because you like the snow?
Once or twice in a lifetime is about the right amount of snow for me. Kids here have been known to try to save tiny little snowmen in the freezer as curiosities.

Check Flagstaff Arizona

Once or twice in a lifetime is about the right amount of snow for me. Kids here have been known to try to save tiny little snowmen in the freezer as curiosities.

+1. I live close enough to visit snow and then come back where it is warm. But I am also close enough to visit the beach when I want as well. It is about 19 miles and 3000 feet of climbing by bike to the snow for me.

And you moved to Fort Worth because you like the snow?

I moved to Fort Worth for my wife's health.

Not to mention our Springs and Falls.

Whenever people say they couldn't live here because we get snow, I like to point out that snow doesn't make your house wash away in a flood, blow sway in a hurricane or tornado, get covered in mudslides, burn down in yearly wildfires, fall apart in an earthquake...

During the worst snowstorm you stay inside and drink hot chocolate. I'm failing to see how that's worse than any of the above.

There are deaths associated with any large blizzard, but I agree with your main point that they're not as deadly as other natural events. Those of us in the Great Lakes region and New England are blessed with few disasters (compared to most parts of the world) and beautiful snow during a few months of the year is a small price to pay, IMO.

Just thought I'd throw this out.....I've been looking for a job for a year now and am finally getting interviews so I've been all over the place recently on job interviews and am really shocked by what I'm finding. I'm looking for a place to live with a 1) strong sense of community (no suburbs) 2) bike friendly layout 3) affordable cost of living if possible 4) at least some green space. You would think I'd come up with a long list but so far, I've got Burlington, VT, Northampton, MA, Madison, WI, Pittsburgh, PA, and Portland, OR on it. That's about it. In the whole USA. I live in NH and drove down the east coast corridor to just north of Philly a few weeks ago and there's nothing but traffic, congestion, concrete, and crowds for a few hundred miles. I was in Oxford, OH last week and while I could live close to my (potential) job there, there's nothing but cornfields near it for 40 miles until you get to Cincy or Dayton and I"d feel trapped in such a small town that I couldn't get out of without spending an hour in a car. Am I missing a bunch of places? I'm thinking Indianapolis, Louisvile, Cincinnati, and Rochester NY look good on paper but I've never been to any of those places.

I agree with you that there are large, very large, swaths of the US that consist of a series of ****holes. I drove from San Francisco to Seattle last summer (yes, I drove), and there were countless small cities along the way. In a landscape that is beautiful, these small towns were just the same monotonous series of McDonald's, Walmart, Chilie's, McDonald's, Walmart, Starbucks, etc. Each town looked exactly like the last.

I think your criteria might be a little unrealistic. If you want to live in a nice, community-minded, bike-friendly town with a lot of green space but with a decent level of urban amenities, it's going to cost a bit of money to live there, because other people will have discovered it and bid the cost of living up. A classic example is Boulder, CO. It's a beautiful city, set in a beautiful location, a very strong community, with bike infrastructure up the wazoo, and, as a previous poster has pointed out, a ton of open space. But it's a pretty expensive place to live, largely because the very growth-slowing regulations that keep it nice also drive up real estate prices.

Here's my list of nice, interesting, bike-friendly places in the US where I would consider living, in no particular order:

1. Denver/Boulder, CO (Some snow in the winter, but otherwise perfect)
2. Portland, OR (obvious, I know)
3. Seattle, WA (central city is almost perfect, though some of the suburbs are among the most depressing places I've ever seen)
4. SF Bay area, CA (I would move to SF tomorrow if it weren't so expensive)
5. Washington DC (good infrastructure, fairly bike-tolerant, horrible summers; I would live there only if I had a really good job)
6. Santa Fe, NM (very nice 9 months a year; some minor snow in the winter, hellishly hot 4 weeks a year, but it's a dry heat)
7. Bellingham, WA (Perfect if you can find work)
8. Chicago (bad winters, too flat for my taste, but an interesting city and the best big-city people on Earth, down-to-earth and direct, not all passive-aggressive and fake-nice like people in Seattle..)

I thnk the OP should focus more on work. It doesn't make sense to move if you don't have a job. The jobs are just starting to come back but they are paying less than before. The best place to live at the moment is the town that's willing to pay you the most!

Once he finds that job, then looking for a place to live becomes a problem. Those who want to live close to their jobs pay the most rent or property taxes. There's no way to get around this problem. The commuters who travel sacrifice their time open space, lower taxes etc.

Steve has a point. Look where the growth is, move there and then see where you live.

http://images.businessweek.com/ss/10/01/0128_americas_fastest_growing_cities/1.htm

Yeah, I heard... Four seasons in Rochester:

Almost Winter
Winter
Still Winter
Summer

In Maine we have seasons:

Almost Winter
Winter
Mud
Tourist

Maybe they are the same with different names?

There are deaths associated with any large blizzard, but I agree with your main point that they're not as deadly as other natural events. Those of us in the Great Lakes region and New England are blessed with few disasters (compared to most parts of the world) and beautiful snow during a few months of the year is a small price to pay, IMO.


I actually have to wonder if the death rate is actually any higher during blizzards; They're invariably from people getting into car accidents ( or, even more rarely, from someone in poor shape having a heart attack while trying to shovel the snow. ) And they're always reported in the media as "storm-related" deaths. But we get local deaths from car accidents every day even in the height of summer, and the heart attacks don't get reported because they're not associated with a big event like a blizzard. I would venture that the accident rate is even lower during inclement weather, as so few people would be out on the road in the first place. Perhaps blizzards actually save lives!

Boulder, Lawrence, Austin, Champaign ... looking for large state universities isn't a bad heuristic.

In Maine we have seasons:

In Palm Springs there were only two.

1) The Season

2) hotter than heck

is most of the USA unliveable?

don't set your standards so high that reality will never live up to them. there are lots of tradeoffs - places with more jobs are more expensive to live. you can make the effort to have a sense of community, but it will take more work to do that in a new place than in one where you already have strong relationships with people who are important to you...

I agree with you that there are large, very large, swaths of the US that consist of a series of ****holes. I drove from San Francisco to Seattle last summer (yes, I drove), and there were countless small cities along the way. In a landscape that is beautiful, these small towns were just the same monotonous series of McDonald's, Walmart, Chilie's, McDonald's, Walmart, Starbucks, etc. Each town looked exactly like the last.

I think your criteria might be a little unrealistic. If you want to live in a nice, community-minded, bike-friendly town with a lot of green space but with a decent level of urban amenities, it's going to cost a bit of money to live there, because other people will have discovered it and bid the cost of living up. A classic example is Boulder, CO. It's a beautiful city, set in a beautiful location, a very strong community, with bike infrastructure up the wazoo, and, as a previous poster has pointed out, a ton of open space. But it's a pretty expensive place to live, largely because the very growth-slowing regulations that keep it nice also drive up real estate prices.

Here's my list of nice, interesting, bike-friendly places in the US where I would consider living, in no particular order:

1. Denver/Boulder, CO (Some snow in the winter, but otherwise perfect)
2. Portland, OR (obvious, I know)
3. Seattle, WA (central city is almost perfect, though some of the suburbs are among the most depressing places I've ever seen)
4. SF Bay area, CA (I would move to SF tomorrow if it weren't so expensive)
5. Washington DC (good infrastructure, fairly bike-tolerant, horrible summers; I would live there only if I had a really good job)
6. Santa Fe, NM (very nice 9 months a year; some minor snow in the winter, hellishly hot 4 weeks a year, but it's a dry heat)
7. Bellingham, WA (Perfect if you can find work)
8. Chicago (bad winters, too flat for my taste, but an interesting city and the best big-city people on Earth, down-to-earth and direct, not all passive-aggressive and fake-nice like people in Seattle..)
What a load of coastal elitism. Let's make it clear that you're writing about what you know, and there's a lot of parts of this great country that you don't know.

is most of the USA unliveable?

don't set your standards so high that reality will never live up to them. there are lots of tradeoffs - places with more jobs are more expensive to live. you can make the effort to have a sense of community, but it will take more work to do that in a new place than in one where you already have strong relationships with people who are important to you...

True. Most people I've known who are peripatetic lovers of "Places Rated" lists are miserable no matter where they relocate, suggesting that the true source of their unhappiness is something other than geography.

Do you think suburbs are uniquely an american thing? Please point me to place in the world with no suburbs.
And suburbs vary largely. Some of the Denver area suburbs are actually nice, not so sprawly places. I like central Englewood, olde town Littleton and Golden for example. There are also some urban cores that are just as sprawly as their suburbs.

asheville, nc