Road Cycling - Would you put your money into frame or component group?

I'm facing a troubling decision, and thought this might make a greater conversation piece as a whole. I'm looking at two bikes, both within a set budget. Both are from good makers (one of whom I have slightly more allegiance to).

Bike 1 is an aluminum frame with the standard carbon fork, stem, seatpost, and new Ultegra 10 all around. Bike 1's frame was made in the US.

Bike 2 is a carbon frame with mostly 105 and Ultegra in back. Bike 2's frame was not made in the US.

Both fit me well enough. Bike 1 has classic geometry, bike 2 is more sloping. While I prefer classic, I am open to whatever fits.

What would you choose? Nicer components and US make or a carbon frame?

Frame. But I wouldn't compromise too great on the group. For instance, on my Trek 5500, the money is in the frame. The group is Ultegra which is good enough for me.

55/Rad

Frame! a frame is forever (kinda), and a groupo can be upgraded a piece at the time. If you are looking at a Shimano, the 105 or the '04 Ultegra are amazing value..

Just because it's carbon doesn't make it good. There are plenty of "gimmicky" carbon frames out there, feeding on the carbon craze. Make sure you're getting what you pay for. Try to find as many reviews as possible for what you're looking to buy. That being said, a poor frame, with great components isn't as good as a good frame with a lesser component group (IMO of course).

Frame, you upgrade components, you start with a good frame.
From mtb^ing, you learn to consider components 'disposeable', even the der hanger is made to snap if stressed rather than the compnent or frame.

The frame is one component you can't easily change, is the most important item of how the ride will feel.

I like chromoly frames as they can be repaired and ride smooth. Kinda expensive and harder to find seems, most companies went Alu.

I'm facing a troubling decision, and thought this might make a greater conversation piece as a whole. I'm looking at two bikes, both within a set budget. Both are from good makers (one of whom I have slightly more allegiance to).

Bike 1 is an aluminum frame with the standard carbon fork, stem, seatpost, and new Ultegra 10 all around. Bike 1's frame was made in the US.

Bike 2 is a carbon frame with mostly 105 and Ultegra in back. Bike 2's frame was not made in the US.

Both fit me well enough. Bike 1 has classic geometry, bike 2 is more sloping. While I prefer classic, I am open to whatever fits.

What would you choose? Nicer components and US make or a carbon frame?

Personally, I fail to see how a Taiwanese, compact-geometry carbon frame is a better frame than a domestic aluminum traditional-geometry frame. I am showing my bias here, of course, but bike 1 is the one to get.

I'm facing a troubling decision, and thought this might make a greater conversation piece as a whole. I'm looking at two bikes, both within a set budget. Both are from good makers (one of whom I have slightly more allegiance to).

Bike 1 is an aluminum frame with the standard carbon fork, stem, seatpost, and new Ultegra 10 all around. Bike 1's frame was made in the US.

Bike 2 is a carbon frame with mostly 105 and Ultegra in back. Bike 2's frame was not made in the US.

Both fit me well enough. Bike 1 has classic geometry, bike 2 is more sloping. While I prefer classic, I am open to whatever fits.

What would you choose? Nicer components and US make or a carbon frame?


Can't really give any kind of opinion not knowing which frames you're talking about.

Personally, I fail to see how a Taiwanese, compact-geometry carbon frame is a better frame than a domestic aluminum traditional-geometry frame. I am showing my bias here, of course, but bike 1 is the one to get.

Yeah, but everything you just said there is personal preference. I prefer the feel of a compact frame, like the feel of carbon over aluminum, and dont give a hoot in hell as to where its made.

Personally, I fail to see how a Taiwanese, compact-geometry carbon frame is a better frame than a domestic aluminum traditional-geometry frame. I am showing my bias here, of course, but bike 1 is the one to get.Wrongo nothing beats the feel of steel :D


My take - throw the money into the frame the rest is peripheral and replaceable.

...thought this might make a greater conversation piece as a whole
you're right. I wonder why we've never discussed Frame vs Components before?

you're right. I wonder why we've never discussed Frame vs Components before?You know, other than the fact that I haven't seen the question asked, there is an inherent assumption that it's always going to be frame-and-upgrade-later. However, if you look at the major high-end groups, they all cost more than most frames. But then you have all the threaded or un/diameter/length/disassemble/reassemble issue...anyway, too much to think about right now :o

edit: Yeah, the frame is much harder, because it's a one shot deal, whereas the components can be done piecemeal as time and budget (and spousal negotiations:D...) allow.

I have been thinking about this too... I would get the frame if you can and then upgrade later if it is possible. You can always upgrade the frame later on but it is alot of work. If you are going this option then you can get a bike that is all aluminum or hybrid but with awsome parts and then swap the parts later. My intuition says to get a better frame now and upgrade components...

You know, other than the fact that I haven't seen the question asked, there is an inherent assumption that it's always going to be frame-and-upgrade-later. However, if you look at the major high-end groups, they all cost more than most frames. But then you have all the threaded or un/diameter/length/disassemble/reassemble issue...anyway, too much to think about right now :o
i hear ya bro, high-end groups do cost a boatload!

But a DA/Record derail won't make ya more comfortable, nor significantly faster.

Yeah, but everything you just said there is personal preference. I prefer the feel of a compact frame, like the feel of carbon over aluminum, and dont give a hoot in hell as to where its made.

Absolutely true! I, on the other hand, prefer the feel of a traditional geometry frame (if it's steel, all the better!), and the carbon bike you are talking about seems like more of a "throwaway" (not worth upgrading, buy a new bike instead) than a keeper (good, long-lasting frameset that is worth upgrading the components on.) It is impossible to say without knowing what the specific bikes are, but that is just my initial feelind based on the descriptions.

If you have the budget I would say spend the money on frame. Components get outdated and wear out. The frame if it is quality will last through several sets or more of components.

If you have the budget I would say spend the money on frame. Components get outdated and wear out. The frame if it is quality will last through several sets or more of components.

Agreed. But even though both bikes fit, I gotta believe each one rides and feels a little different...buy the one that rides and feels right for you. :rolleyes:

what bike brands and models are these you are choosing between?
in my opinion frame is more important.

Agreed. But even though both bikes fit, I gotta believe each one rides and feels a little different...buy the one that rides and feels right for you. :rolleyes:

To me that's frame choice.

Wow, a lot of people from bay area here?

BTW, Ultegra 9 speed is pretty cheap these days if you know how to shop for it. Almost as cheap as 105. In fact I see no reason to pay more money for ultegra than 105 if you build bike your self.

Been said 'bout a bajillion times but:

[a] Frame / Fork
[b] Wheelset
[c] Components

Get the frame that fits and rides the way you like to ride. Then get the best wheelset you can afford (for everyday use I'm assuming). Then components. Sacrifice components within reason (105 Yes!, Tiagra NO!) in order to get the best frame you can. DA10 won't make you finish a century faster than Ultegra, but having Frame X (your "right" one) over Frame Y sure will.

Best.

Cyclefreak is spot on....

It's not about our opinions, it's about your preferences and riding needs. My idea of comfort, my conception of a quick handling, or stable descending bike will differ from yours. You might not ride long distances, in which case a wider selection of frames would come under the category of 'comfortable'.

If you are unsure about frame design or materials, taking some test rides and maybe borrowing some bikes to ride in your favourite locations, would be more valuable than reading our prejudices....

-again!

Personally, I fail to see how a Taiwanese, compact-geometry carbon frame is a better frame than a domestic aluminum traditional-geometry frame. I am showing my bias here, of course, but bike 1 is the one to get.

Personally I can't see how a Taiwanese carbon frame is better then a Taiwanese aluminum frame or vice-a-versa. His bike choice #1 might be an American bike but that does not mean it's made in the USA unless it say "Made in the USA". The Specialize Roubiax carbon frame is made in Taiwan and it's getting rave reviews; I don't think you can rule out a CF bike made in Taiwan.

FRAME!!! It's the frame (and then the wheels, to a lesser extent) that will determine ride quality. SO, if you have a great frame, it's still gonna feel great, even if it has old Veloce or 105 on it.

The Specialize Roubiax carbon frame is made in Taiwan and it's getting rave reviews; I don't think you can rule out a CF bike made in Taiwan.

I agree. The prices of frames such as these and the Giants are becoming so cheap that even I might be able to consider carbon in the near future :)

What direction would you all go if the prices were in the lower end?
Say you get an inexpensive/used steel frame with sora
vs.
new aluminium bike with tiagra and up
for the same price.

What direction would you all go if the prices were in the lower end?
Say you get an inexpensive/used steel frame with sora
vs.
new aluminium bike with tiagra and up
for the same price.
I should think that a low-end AL bike would have insane vibration, but I've never ridden the bike you're thinking of, so I couldn't say.

After frame, I'd say saddle, then wheels, but really, no one mentions the saddle cuz if you can't afford a decent saddle, then you really can't afford any bike stuff. Pedals are the most important part for people with bad knees, even more important than frame, but again, if you can't afford the right pedals for your knees, you can't afford the bike.

PS: IMO, Tiagra is the worst value in the line up. Still good stuff, but if you can afford better than Sora, jump to 105/Ult or the campy equivalents.

I should think that a low-end AL bike would have insane vibration, but I've never ridden the bike you're thinking of, so I couldn't say.
PS: IMO, Tiagra is the worst value in the line up. Still good stuff, but if you can afford better than Sora, jump to 105/Ult or the campy equivalents.

An example of the low end alum frame would be the Ibex vantage 4400 I saw a link for.
I got a bike for commuting around town a while back and enjoy riding so after january (I am moving out to the suburbs) I will be hitting up the lbs for a new bike. From a couple of test rides I am convinced that I would like to go the steel route and since my budget is less than 500 I will most definitely be going used. My only requirements so far are a lugged frame (bonus for unique ones) if possible and shifters on the brake lever assembly.

I only asked that question as most people if they continue cycling will most likely purchase another bike down the line. Especially if they start with a limited budget. I was thinking along the lines of that person then purchasing a new frame down the line and saving some cost by transfering parts over, and wanted to see if anyone had gone that route.
I guess with the technology changing every year one should buy the better frame and then update components with newer stuff that may be available down the road.

I was thinking along the lines of that person then purchasing a new frame down the line and saving some cost by transfering parts over, and wanted to see if anyone had gone that route.
I'm going that route, but if said person is using their bike enough to warrant getting a new one, then the parts are likely going to be worn by the time they buy. If I'm not in a position to buy everything new when I do buy, I'll probably move my wheels -- Mavic Open Pro with Ultegra hubs -- over to the new bike and put my old wheels back on my old bike... which will become my touring ride. If I get the itch to buy something between now and the new frame, I may buy a good seatpost and that may transfer. I'll move my ultegra pedals and put some SPDs I have laying around on the touring and ride that with mtb shoes.

As for installed components, well, if the old frame is still good, it just doesn't make sense to move those over cuz then you've got used components -- half way thru their life? -- which isn't a big deal, but then you've got a stripped frame that's low-end and now worthless... unless you want to make it a project bike for, uhh, I dunno.

I think my rambling is suggesting that it's only time/cost-effective to NOT buy with thoughts of moving it to a new ride unless it's super easy to move -and- won't leave your old bike collecting dust in your garage.

For some parts you can do that... i.e. handlebars, stem, fork, seatpost, wheels, etc. From my understanding they will not wear as fast as say crankset, deraileurs, cassette, etc. In my case I have a medium level frame (half al. half cf) and eventually I am going to transfer all my rediculus light parts to a new carbon frame and move the stock parts back to the bike to use as a commuter. I would not buy DA 10 etc expecting to transfer because these parts tend to wear out then you will want new parts anyway... just my 2 cents...

Get bike #1.

Bike #2 looks like a girls bike. :)

OT: Lord Opie- In your profile it says you have the Fuji Finest. Whats your opinion on the Alex A-Class wheels that come with the bike? (Assuming they used the same ones in 03)
I rode one last weekend and it is a top notch ride for the price.

I'm looking at two bikes, both within a set budget. Both are from good makers ...

Bike 1 is an aluminum frame with the standard carbon fork, stem, seatpost, and new Ultegra 10 all around. Bike 1's frame was made in the US.

Bike 2 is a carbon frame with mostly 105 and Ultegra in back. Bike 2's frame was not made in the US.

What would you choose? Nicer components and US make or a carbon frame?

Since you say both frames are from "good makers" then I assume the imported carbon frame is of good quality, at least as good as the U.S. aluminum frame. In that case, I'd take the carbon frame. The carbon frame will ride smoother than aluminum. Carbon fiber is the strongest frame material available, aluminum is the weakest. You can always upgrade the 105 stuff to make it all Ultegra later.

Frame, the rest are really there to wear out and break down but a good (well taken care of) frame should last you till you stop riding.

Frame is highest priority,then crankset (powerplant), wheels, and lastly components.

Frame, the rest are really there to wear out and break down but a good (well taken care of) frame should last you till you stop riding.

Crankset will also last a long time (exception of rings). I just spent $200 on some DA 180mm cranks so I'm hoping the arms will last as long as the frame.

P.S. 180's work nicely for someone my height.

I think comfort is my first priority so my rule-of-thumb is to use the following pecking order:


Frame
Wheels
Shifters
Drivetrain
Rest of bike is easily changable


I noticed an interesting assumption people made in this thread. When the OP described bike #2, everyone seemed to assume it was made in Taiwan. Just because it was not made in the USA doesn't mean it was made in Taiwan or even Asia for that matter. Also, I'm not even sure it matters much where it's made.

My suggestion is pick the frame made from the most reputable company/frame-builder. Do the research especially if it's carbon fibre. CF is a very strong and durable material if manufactured correctly. Also, not all CF are the same. Know what you're buying.

OT: Lord Opie- In your profile it says you have the Fuji Finest. Whats your opinion on the Alex A-Class wheels that come with the bike? (Assuming they used the same ones in 03)
my ride came with Alex DA-22 wheels. They're satisfactory and what you'd expect with a value priced low-end bike. At 1100 miles, I complained to the LBS manager that the rear wheel was popping spokes and I felt that I should've gotten more miles before it exploded. At this point, the front had already popped one as well.

They gave me a loaner wheel while they investigated a warranty claim -- not sure if it was thru Fuji or Alex. I asked once or twice over a few weeks, but they either did nothing or weren't trying hard enough to get a response. So, I kept the loaner wheel and stopped bothering 'em. I definitely recommend paying a little more at an LBS who'll work with you when problems arise as opposed to a discount online retailer.

The wheels are acceptable and I suspect by the time they start blowing out for most people, that most people will have an idea of their style of riding and whether the rest of the bike is for them or not.

I think the frame is an awesome value and am so happy with it, that I'm keeping it for a while, so I upgraded the wheelset... as well as other parts.


I rode one last weekend and it is a top notch ride for the price.
what did you ride? A 2003 or 04 finest?

The 2004 has an aluminum fork :( If you ride like me -- more comfort than performance -- than you're probably putting a lot less pressure on your hands. I've got my saddle moved back pretty far and can nearly ride with my chest close to the bars with my hands off. If you do/can ride with applying little pressure on your hands, I'll *guess* that the AL fork won't be as much of a factor and the frame will absorb the vibration before it gets to your butt. If you're more comfortable keeping a fair amount of pressure on your hands, well, I'm guessing that the vibration from the fork will be uncomfortable.

NOTE: I have not ridden an AL fork. I do NOT know what it's like. I'm just guessing. If you can test ride it for a couple hours, that'd be best.

If you can find a 2003 in your size, I bet you could score a hell of a deal.

Frame is highest priority,then crankset (powerplant), wheels, and lastly components.
NOTE to NEWBIES... he's joking about the cranks, he likes to joke about such stuff.

(I'm guessing this is 53-11 alltheway or someone picking up the trolling torch)

I rode the 2004 finest and the 2004 league? (the one with the down tube shifters) It was on a smooth paved bike path and a couple of city blocks getting to the path and back. I only took them out for a 15min ride each.
They didn't have any used bikes around and none from last year so I couldn't ride the older ones. The ride itself was really nice. I am coming from a heavier old bike that is too small for me, so anything feels great in terms of being comfortable on the bike. I would need a longer ride to see if the aluminium fork made it feel any noisier than an all steel/chro-mo bike.
I prefer comfort over performance as well. I would mainly use my bike to get places, small scale touring at best and to ride to friends houses instead of driving on days when it isn't raining. No need for panniers or fenders so I figured I would not be missing the brake clearance/eyelets etc with commuting setups.
If there are any good used deals around town come jan, feb I will go that route. Otherwise I will just save a bit more and get a new Finest. Forks aren't all that expensive, as I have seen some carbon ones for 100$ at nashbar, and I could replace the aluminium fork if it became a bother. A dull silver or chrome one would be cool.