Advocacy & Safety - What to say at the checkout line

Here's an idea for a thread.

Let's say you are at the bank or the supermarket. Someone starts asking you about your cycling, how many miles a week do you ride, why you ride, etc.

The reason they ask is they have looked you up and down, as you stand there with your helmet, backpack etc. Maybe they've even let you go ahead in line with two items for checkout.

The conversation starts out all friendly. After all, they started it, so you're just trying to be happy and friendly. You're actually in great spirits, as you have been having a great ride...

But then, inevitably, they start dumping all kinds of past resentments and near misses on you, and start lecturing you on how to ride safe. I always wondered why motorists don't lecture each other.

What do you say?

How about 'The exercise keeps my herpes from flaring up.'

fail. :)

How about "Go f*ck yourself"?

How about "Go f*ck yourself"?

Works for me.

I tell them that I run over cyclists who do stupid thing too. And that I have connections so that I can track down drivers that cut me off and kill them in their sleep. They never smile back when I give them that crazy little smile after that, but they shut up real quick.

The most civilized I could get to a 'tail-end tirade' in a conversation like that is, "I'm sorry you had problems with other riders; I'm not them. I don't do those things, and I know more about it than you ever will, so STFU. And if you try anything out on the road with me, you better kill me, 'cause otherwise, I WILL KILL YOU, if it takes a decade."

Big as I am, I usually don't get a lot of that. Unless it's from the car window....

Why all the negative comments? Are the stereotypes about bicyclists being arrogant a%%holes correct?

In regards to your question - I just state how safety is very important to me when bicycling which includes having good lights, wearing a safety vest, obeying traffic lights, stop signs, riding with the flow of traffic, etc... I also acknowledge that it is a challenge when others ride/drive recklessly & leave it at that... cheers

I totally feel the resentment everybody's chewing on here, and I know it's hard to choke down the anger, but if you're going to take the high road (and actually do something good for cyclists), how about something like:

"Yeah, we need to get more law-abiding folks like YOU out on bikes. In places where biking is a normal, average way to get around, people are more likely to follow the rules and less likely to act freaky. Here's my card -- call me if you want someone to show you the good bike routes around town."

or

"You sound like you care a lot about traffic safety. Why don't you become a League Cycling Instructor? Or at least donate some money to your local bike advocacy group to subsidize safe cycling classes?"

or

"Yeah, a big part of the problem is that almost nobody in the US gets a driver's ed class for biking. Can you help us out by pressuring the local school board to make safe traffic cycling part of the high school curriculum?"

or, if you'd rather,

"Yeah, if we're ever going to get really safe roads, like the Netherlands, we'll need to stop paying lip service to bike safety and invest some major cash in safe separated infrastructure. Will you lobby your congressperson?"

In other words, "YOU'RE EITHER PART OF THE PROBLEM OR PART OF THE SOLUTION. HOW 'BOUT HELPING OUT, BUDDY?" But don't say it like that.:rolleyes:

If I don't like where the conversation is headed, I usually just become non-responsive (hey, just being honest here...). If I'm feeling sharp, I work in something along the lines of 'its only dangerous out there if the drivers around me make it that way' as my last words.

I just turn it around. Do you get your fat ass off the couch? Do you ride? Why do you smell funny? If you get 32 of your relatives in one room what do your have? (a full set of teeth). Things like that.

I acknowledge that a majority of cyclists today are scofflaws. However, nearly 100% of motorists break the law on every trip they make with very deadly results. I then challenge them to go a week without breaking a single traffic law, including making a complete stop behind the limit line at stop signs and red lights and giving the few cyclists they pass the legally required space. If they can take that much, I'll begin to quiz them on the vehicle code.

How about something like, "You're not suggesting that the annoying/unsafe things cyclists do somehow lessens our responsibility as drivers to drive in such a way as to not hit anything, are you? I mean, we're supposed to drive carefully enough to avoid hitting things. Even things that annoy us."

I totally feel the resentment everybody's chewing on here, and I know it's hard to choke down the anger, but if you're going to take the high road (and actually do something good for cyclists), how about something like:

"Yeah, we need to get more law-abiding folks like YOU out on bikes. In places where biking is a normal, average way to get around, people are more likely to follow the rules and less likely to act freaky. Here's my card -- call me if you want someone to show you the good bike routes around town."

or

"You sound like you care a lot about traffic safety. Why don't you become a League Cycling Instructor? Or at least donate some money to your local bike advocacy group to subsidize safe cycling classes?"

or

"Yeah, a big part of the problem is that almost nobody in the US gets a driver's ed class for biking. Can you help us out by pressuring the local school board to make safe traffic cycling part of the high school curriculum?"

or, if you'd rather,

"Yeah, if we're ever going to get really safe roads, like the Netherlands, we'll need to stop paying lip service to bike safety and invest some major cash in safe separated infrastructure. Will you lobby your congressperson?"

In other words, "YOU'RE EITHER PART OF THE PROBLEM OR PART OF THE SOLUTION. HOW 'BOUT HELPING OUT, BUDDY?" But don't say it like that.:rolleyes:

not bad. I do like the positive angle. I will admit It's tough to take that route all the time when I'm just not in the mood to engage with strangers on a complex political issue. I tried to post something a couple hours ago, but my IE dropped me. It was more of a "qualification" type of thing where you try to feel out their intentions and where the conversation is headed. If you know they are supportive of cycling in general in the beggining, the exchange is easier. If they are not supportive, you can end the conversation diplomatically without going on the defensive.

I've had very few encounters like this but my reply to similar situations is something like this, "It's interesting. Cycling is counter-intuitive. Everyone thinks they know how to ride a bike but it turns out what is safe for the cyclist isn't obvious. It's like these stupid looking bike shorts. I used to laugh at people that looked like me until I learned more and got experience. It looked as stupid as riding in traffic but it turns out I was just ignorant about cycling before I put a few thousand miles on my bike. Now I'm better educated. Unfortunately that education takes time and experience but I try not to get irritated at people that don't know anything about cycling because most people are just clueless". Then I turn away so as to end the conversation.

"Well, when you learn to drive you won't have a problem with sharing the road."

"Well, when you learn to drive you won't have a problem with sharing the road."

Best answer yet.

I like to tell 'em that not only have I lost a hundred-plus pounds from riding the bike, I'm also saving about $450 a month by not having a car. And that it's not just the cyclists-- there is just plain no shortage of idiots everywhere in this country, everywhere, all the time, all over the place, in every nook and cranny, sea to shining sea, idiots everywhere you look. Some are on bikes and some are in cars and some are in foot and the one thing they have in common is that they're irresponsible, oblivious IDIOTS no matter how ya slice it.

Tell 'em': Nocomprende Ingles' . . .

I say: "shut up and hurry up, your too slow as it is behind that register not alone trying to talk about something you don't have clue about, you minimum wage overweight moron!"

memorize and repeat this phrase: "vous m'avez pris pour quelqu'un qui donne une merde"

In french, for real?

In french, for real?it passed the censors here...:D

Some good stuff here, just a quick one and I'm going for a ride in a few.

It depends on my mood. I try to "qualify" the conversation will go..

They might ask "uh is that a bike helmet?" or "do you ride a lot?"

Usually the cool people start off with some sort of praise, so that helps.

but sometimes as I mentioned the conversation can get sour.

so I might ask:

-do you ride?
-what kind of bike? (if they ride)
This will clue you in a bit. If they start venting some story about some kid they almost ran over because he did whatever, I might say:
"wow sorry you had that happen. But in general would you say you are pro or anti bike"?
(you never know they might have had a daughter get killed by a car or something)
Then you may be able to narrow it down, and end the discussion on a more civil note with something positive.

many people want you to be on the defensive, it's the "cyclist inferiority complex"

What you say off the bike matters too. I do like brianinc.ville's ideas, though, as they are cheerful and non-violent in intention . You are seeking to form common ground. Unfortunately, yes there are people who are just hopeless and closed minded , but at least you can walk away without looking standoffish.

Then two weeks later they recognize you on the road and won't buzz you or someone who looks like you. They toot and wave.

Massbike.com has a great PR program going on called "and I ride". The person you just buzzed could be your kid's teacher, your doctor, etc. If you put a face to a rider (along with a name, introduce yourself, ask their name, do they live locally?) then cyclists will have more of an identity, as opposed to being a body in their path.

Ahimsa.









-

Why all the negative comments? Are the stereotypes about bicyclists being arrogant a%%holes correct?

In regards to your question - I just state how safety is very important to me when bicycling which includes having good lights, wearing a safety vest, obeying traffic lights, stop signs, riding with the flow of traffic, etc... I also acknowledge that it is a challenge when others ride/drive recklessly & leave it at that... cheers

+1. You are trying your best to "walk the walk" . generally, the more safety equipment I started putting on. the less snyde comments I got, despite feeling slightly dorky at first. Kids often ask me about my helmet mirror.

Bottom line: Cycling makes me happy and saves me a lot of money (as well as aggravation) So why not be cheerful, and just try to not "take on" other's toxic emotional issues? The funny thing is, you are a "conversation piece", something different and unique in their day, but where you choose to go with that is up to you, and it can come back as bad Karma to you later, or good Karma. That person you just insulted could save your life out there someday.

But yeah, some people just hate cyclists, and that's sad.

Here's an idea for a thread.

Let's say you are at the bank or the supermarket. Someone starts asking you about your cycling, how many miles a week do you ride, why you ride, etc.

The reason they ask is they have looked you up and down, as you stand there with your helmet, backpack etc. Maybe they've even let you go ahead in line with two items for checkout.

The conversation starts out all friendly. After all, they started it, so you're just trying to be happy and friendly. You're actually in great spirits, as you have been having a great ride...

But then, inevitably, they start dumping all kinds of past resentments and near misses on you, and start lecturing you on how to ride safe. I always wondered why motorists don't lecture each other.

What do you say?

"Yes, there certainly are a lot of inconsiderate, unsafe, arrogant bicyclists out there just as there are motorists. A responsible & law-abiding motorist like you, or a responsible & law-abiding cyclist like me has to be always on the defensive and vigilant to minimize the chance of needless serious injury or death."

Don in Austin

Here's an idea for a thread.

Let's say you are at the bank or the supermarket. Someone starts asking you about your cycling, how many miles a week do you ride, why you ride, etc.

The reason they ask is they have looked you up and down, as you stand there with your helmet, backpack etc. Maybe they've even let you go ahead in line with two items for checkout.

The conversation starts out all friendly. After all, they started it, so you're just trying to be happy and friendly. You're actually in great spirits, as you have been having a great ride...

But then, inevitably, they start dumping all kinds of past resentments and near misses on you, and start lecturing you on how to ride safe. I always wondered why motorists don't lecture each other.

What do you say?

This has never happened to me at the checkout line but it HAS happened at work in conversation with people who could adversely affect my job. Needless to say, tact is a good thing...

. . . What do you say?

"Yep, there are some bad riders out there. Bad drivers too." And if the person wants to rant on as opposed to conversing I just turn away and tune out.

In real life, I've endured very few "bad, bad, bad riders" lectures as compared with many friendly or neutral conversations.

Some good suggestions for educating ignorant people if one feels the need to waste their time to educate ignorant people.

But personally, I'd still say "Go F*ck yourself".

Never had an adult say anything like that to me in public. The worst I have had is when little kids are like "Why are you wearing a helmet, don't you know how to ride a bike without crashing?" and I'm just like :rolleyes: "Of course I do, the helmet is for things that I can not control." In my head I'm thinking "Enjoy your triple dipple fake suspension on the sidewalk kid."

If an adult came up to me and started talking sh*t for no reason I would tell them to f*ck off.

When I go shopping as an errand no one knows the transport I used to get to the store.

When I go shopping as a stop as part of my commute when I am wearing obvious cycling attire no one has said anything to me, partly because I am there to get what I need and get on with my commute.

When I go shopping as an errand no one knows the transport I used to get to the store.

When I go shopping as a stop as part of my commute when I am wearing obvious cycling attire no one has said anything to me, partly because I am there to get what I need and get on with my commute.

And no one speaks to you during your precious moments in line?

I haven't had anyone say anything while I am in grocery line, but I have had co-workers come up to my posted (outside my cube) California Vehicle Code rules and express amazement that cyclists had any "rights" at all. That usually sparked an interesting conversation, which often ended up with folks expressing their opinions regarding "sharing the road."

No one talks to me, usually I am in express lane with no line if I am commuting anyway.
I also don't usually turn around and face the person behind me to invite conversation, to talk to me would require that the person behind me puts away their cell phone and taps me on the shoulder or otherwise gets my attention as I am unloading groceries. The person in front of me is also not looking at me.

No one talks to me, usually I am in express lane with no line if I am commuting anyway.
I also don't usually turn around and face the person behind me to invite conversation, to talk to me would require that the person behind me puts away their cell phone and taps me on the shoulder or otherwise gets my attention as I am unloading groceries. The person in front of me is also not looking at me.

Also helps if you wear that "I'm terribly busy" look on your face. ;)

Also helps if you wear that "I'm terribly busy" look on your face. ;)
I usually wear that zoned out look. But seriously I don't encounter lines where I am just waiting doing nothing when grocery shopping, usually I am unloading the cart as the person in front of me is checking out. Lines are usually at the movies or cafe type food places.

... Someone starts asking you about your cycling... The conversation starts out all friendly... But then, inevitably, they start dumping all kinds of past resentments and near misses on you, and start lecturing you on how to ride safe... What do you say?

I started to get this all the time after I started to become known for writing a column on cycling issues. People like to air their grievances and beefs, especially to someone who writes about cyclists rights.

Most of the time I'll just listen, a lot of the time I'll agree with them (those kids shouldn't be going BMX tricks on the sidewalk in front of the old folks home), but sometimes I invoke the old, "You know, that cars and bikes are inanimate objects right?"

I'll then suggest that maybe the problem has to do with what a person is doing rather than what he/she's using, and that we all make mistakes from time to time and should be more tolerant of others because we all make the some mistakes once in a while.

I also suggest for them to get involved in some sort of more constructive way in order to have others behave more responsibly, but they're not usually too keen on that, they just want to complain.

I find most of the people who take the effort to let you know "what's wrong with cyclists" already have their mind made up, so I don't try to battle with them. I just try to give them something to think about. Maybe if they thought a bit more, they wouldn't have so much of a problem.

Repeat after me:

"I'm sorry you had a bad experience ma'am."

That's it, don't explain what you do. Don't advocate anything. Answer very simple specific questions, and when they complain it's just "I'm sorry you had a bad experience ma'am."

If you give people nothing to argue with you can't get drug into their lecture. If you're not saying anything you look normal when you walk away rolling your eyes. You won't win the argument, you won't even finish it. It's not the right place to do anything but say "yes, I live near here."

And if it's a clerk, once you finish inform their manager that you just want to buy your things and not be invited into arguments. Don't lecture him. Don't start an argument or continue one. If he gives you a hard time, change "ma'am" to the appropriate gender and go on with your day.

"Yep, there are some bad riders out there. Bad drivers too." And if the person wants to rant on as opposed to conversing I just turn away and tune out.

In real life, I've endured very few "bad, bad, bad riders" lectures as compared with many friendly or neutral conversations.

+1

I started to get this all the time after I started to become known for writing a column on cycling issues. People like to air their grievances and beefs, especially to someone who writes about cyclists rights.

Most of the time I'll just listen, a lot of the time I'll agree with them (those kids shouldn't be going BMX tricks on the sidewalk in front of the old folks home), but sometimes I invoke the old, "You know, that cars and bikes are inanimate objects right?"

I'll then suggest that maybe the problem has to do with what a person is doing rather than what he/she's using, and that we all make mistakes from time to time and should be more tolerant of others because we all make the some mistakes once in a while.

I also suggest for them to get involved in some sort of more constructive way in order to have others behave more responsibly, but they're not usually too keen on that, they just want to complain.

I find most of the people who take the effort to let you know "what's wrong with cyclists" already have their mind made up, so I don't try to battle with them. I just try to give them something to think about. Maybe if they thought a bit more, they wouldn't have so much of a problem.

ok cool, thanks for sharing. Being more tolerant of others helps me stay alive out there. Frequently, I wave cars ahead of me at stop lights if I've stopped and they pull up behind me. I need to have a car in front of me, especially at rush hour. Let them be cranky, inattentive and in a hurry, you're not gonna change that. Sometimes you have to coax them to get in front of you. Try this sometime, it's great fun and you make allies out there, (I won't say friends) then they remember that at the checkout line .

BTW, you don't have to be at the supermarket, folks. It could be the coffeeshop, anywhere. Remember, one of these people could be the EMT that scoops you up into the ambulance...

+1


Wow what city/state are you in?

Repeat after me:

"I'm sorry you had a bad experience ma'am."

That's it, don't explain what you do. Don't advocate anything. Answer very simple specific questions, and when they complain it's just "I'm sorry you had a bad experience ma'am."

If you give people nothing to argue with you can't get drug into their lecture. If you're not saying anything you look normal when you walk away rolling your eyes. You won't win the argument, you won't even finish it. It's not the right place to do anything but say "yes, I live near here."

And if it's a clerk, once you finish inform their manager that you just want to buy your things and not be invited into arguments. Don't lecture him. Don't start an argument or continue one. If he gives you a hard time, change "ma'am" to the appropriate gender and go on with your day.

generally, clerks are smart enough not to engage in debates. But I've used that same line too, sort of Forrest Gump
"i'm sorry about Thaaat!" .

New Englanders are a bit freaky sometimes. I'm originally from NY, and I was always used to people just being too busy to engage others, or it's just common sense, you don't walk around on the street judging people unless you want to get beat up or shot.

But here it's hyper conservative and very croney. A lot of talk about your shoes, which bores the hell out of me, for god's sakes be more creative in opening a conversation. So I often get bored in about four seconds. Finding someone here with an actual sense of humor and light heart is rare.

So if I'm feeling drained or tired , I do that too "wow! bummer!" You visualize yourself rocking a crying baby and handing it back. But sometimes people do have something mildly interesting to share, and you can often learn things, but that's your call. But yeah, I get tired of interviews too, so +1 that. If you can walk away in neutral, you have a clear enough head to ride home paying full attention as well.

What do you say?
"Why are you talking to me?"

"Yeah, there are a lot of people on the road who don't know what they're doing out there, bikes and cars both. I wish we had some more good role models out there to show them how to stay out of trouble. I do what I can, but there's only so much I can do by myself, so yeah.."

"Yeah, there are a lot of people on the road who don't know what they're doing out there, bikes and cars both. I wish we had some more good role models out there to show them how to stay out of trouble. I do what I can, but there's only so much I can do by myself, so yeah.."

okay, I like that. +1

I acknowledge that a majority of cyclists today are scofflaws. However, nearly 100% of motorists break the law on every trip they make with very deadly results. I then challenge them to go a week without breaking a single traffic law, including making a complete stop behind the limit line at stop signs and red lights and giving the few cyclists they pass the legally required space. If they can take that much, I'll begin to quiz them on the vehicle code.
My favorite answer, but BrianInc's more positive ones good too.

I sometimes approach bicycle cops & ask them basic questions about the bike laws. They no answer so good. :D

As much as I want to tell them to go find a shrink; I've found that a simple, cold "Thank you for the advice." coupled with turning my back on them works very well. Treat them like the "I like Santa Claus" kid in A Christmas Story. It works in most situations where people are unloading baggage or unwanted advice on me.

I don't think I've ever been in a store where people have wanted to talk to me about cycling, except at the bike shop. Do these same people talk to each other in line about how much tint their windows should have or if it's okay to use the stock CD player?

I usually lock my helmet to the bike, so people have no idea how I got to the store. Last winter, a cashier watched me pull out may wallet, and observed that I was wearing both an overcoat and overpants. "You must really like to be warm" was what she said. I can't recall any other conversations that were even indirectly cycling-related.

Paul

"Drive carefully."

I have only experienced positive conversations with people seeing me in my bike clothing when off the road. At most, people say "Be careful on your way home!" and I say "You too!"

I've heard more negative conversations started by people who didn't know I'm a cyclist. I try to avoid arguments and present myself as having enough confidence in myself and my own opinion that I don't feel the need to change their opinion. One day I was at a party and returned to a room where my wife (not a frequent cyclist) was explaining cyclists' right to the road to the party host, who was a doubter. She had pretty much finished, and turned to me to take over, and I just smiled and shrugged.

But then, inevitably, they start dumping all kinds of past resentments and near misses on you, and start lecturing you on how to ride safe. I always wondered why motorists don't lecture each other.

What do you say?

“past resentments and near misses” and “lecturing you on how to ride safe”, is not very specific. It could be many different things, so my response would depend greatly on what was actually said, how it was said, and who it was doing the saying.
-------------

Hot babe: I miss riding my bike... I quit after I was almost hit by a car.
Me: I cycle thousands of miles a year and have very few close calls. Allow me to show you the best way around town on two wheels!

Fat old fart: You guys are gonna get yourselfs killed runnin’ them red lights like ya do.
Me: Do you eat all those donuts in one day? :p