Living Car Free - Say good-bye to the ground...

...it'll be covered with white stuff soon. We got a first dusting of snow today, and if it's a typical winter we'll get several heavy snowfalls before Christmas--all white and no sign of green or brown for several months. A lot of people keep on riding here in Michigan, and I can't be the only one who actually enjoys it!

Does anybody have suggestions that they want to share for snow and cold? Or questions to ask, fears to get over, or an (irrational) sense of impending doom?

It just snowed today. It wasn't supposed to start really snowing and sticking until the later afternoon or evening, and I was planning on leaving work somewhat early. Instead it started snowing and sticking at 11 am. I wish I had put my snow tires on last night and worn my winter boots today. Ooops.

No snow here, in fact it was 15 degrees above normal, but now a huge cold front has blown through and we are 15 degrees below normal!

Aaron :)

As the weather gets colder, there are fewer and fewer cyclists around. I keep looking for bicycles and there aren't any... except me. A moment of irrational thought: maybe I'm a complete nut job.

A good cure for this type of thinking is some support. A good video helps too. From 2009. Chicago.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=geKvnjm_CQQ

I'll ride in most conditions, a torrential downpour doesn't even make me hesitate, but ice and snow terrify me. When it snowed in Seattle last week, I left the bike at home and walked to work. (It's only 3 miles, so I have that luxury...) How do you guys do it? When it snows here, every street is an ice rink. How do you keep from falling every couple of blocks?

Gerv: I loved the video; thanks for posting it.

How do you guys do it? When it snows here, every street is an ice rink. How do you keep from falling every couple of blocks?

Shwalbe Marathon Winter tires with studs. I put Bell No-More-Flats inner tubes inside so I will never need to change a flat tire during winter. They are much heavier but I'll never need to endanger my life by needing to stop and repair a tire.

After the first mile of pedaling with full winter clothes it gets hot, even at temperatures around zero. I met a lady who said that riding in minus thirty degree weather is always cold no matter how much clothing is worn. Goggles are mandatory when the temperatures are far below zero because eye lids will freeze shut when the moisture in tears is present.

Taught a tyre studding workshop tonight and we have never had so many people attend... besides the people who had booked we doubled that with walk ins and just lucked out in having some extra volunteers to help with the instruction.

The number of cyclists has dropped since the temps dropped and we got a good bit of snow but I am seeing more cyclists than I thought I would.

Temps have been nice this week and are hovering just below zero C so it is rather pleasant to ride in.

How do you guys do it? When it snows here, every street is an ice rink. How do you keep from falling every couple of blocks?


128 studs helps... :)

http://www.ravingbikefiend.com/bikepics/kendastud128a.JPG

It just started to snow in Seoul last week. This is the first winter of my life that I have lived somewhere with snow. My main concern is for my bike. I have no idea if they salt the roads here or not. How many people here use beaters for the winter? Seoul gets cold but probably not as cold as a lot of the places that some of you guys live in. Do I really need studded tires? About 70% of my commute is on a MUP which I am pretty sure will get plowed or swept in one way or another, but even that I am not 100% on. I doubt I could source a pair of studded tires here even if I wanted to spend the cash on them. I only live about a 6k walk from my job so walking is an option. So is the bus or subway.

Making a studded tyre costs about $5.00... most folks find that the DIY tyres we make are better than commercial tyres.

Taught a tyre studding workshop tonight and we have never had so many people attend... besides the people who had booked we doubled that with walk ins and just lucked out in having some extra volunteers to help with the instruction.



Hmm. Wish I'd asked you for some tips before ordering the Schwalbe winters. We're experiencing record-breaking snowfall for the time of year round here. In parts of Scotland last night it was -14C; about 7 fahrenheit? What do you use for studs and how do you protect the tubes?

Hmm. Wish I'd asked you for some tips before ordering the Schwalbe winters. We're experiencing record-breaking snowfall for the time of year round here. In parts of Scotland last night it was -14C; about 7 fahrenheit? What do you use for studs and how do you protect the tubes?

And out in the real world... :)

All the info on this is here. (http://ravingbikefiend.com/?page_id=368)

And out in the real world... :)

Indeed. Nice to emerge, blinking, into the daylight...


All the info on this is here. (http://ravingbikefiend.com/?page_id=368)

Fantastic, thanks. Never heard of a Robertson screw before.

No snow yet, but there was frost all over the ground. It was 31 degrees F and I tried out my new winter boots and smartwool socks on the 9.5 mile commute. At the end, my feet were cool but not popsicles. However my knit inner gloves with mittens over them didn't provide enough protection, and my helmet, watchcap and Castelli skull cap didn't prevent an occasional brain freeze. I guess I have to do the Sheldon Brown tape trick.

Biking in Toronto in the winter was relatively easy. Not a fan of riding on hardpack, but in the city just picked wherever was clearest and rode there, if it was the middle of the only passable lane on the road than so be it (some honking of course may ensue)

Here the challenges are:
1. on island they use sand rather than salt (salt melts so it does make roads clearer if bikes messier) and there are two steep hills which will scare me to go down if they are dicey (13% and 15%)
2. off island there are two ways only to get to town - one is 110 kph (70 mph) 4-lane divided highway with on/off-ramps and a generous shoulder (bikes allowed), and the other is 80 kph (50 mph) 2-lane highway with moderate traffic and varying shoulder (small and broken, non-existent, decent) in different sections. There are some blind curves.

Unfortunately ploughed snow tends to block the little shoulder there is. It does not feel comfortable to ride too far out in the lane on the 80 highway, though we do have mirrors. On the 110 highway its stay on the shoulder only.

The bus to town (with bike racks) only runs 4 times a day so while it is sometimes possible to use it in one direction it never works out for two.

Its possible studded tires may help to ride on the shoulder if its not too deep but just dicey in terms of ice underneath (we've never owned any studded tires), but the question with ice becomes other drivers. One night recently my husband was on the bus and the driver mentioned that several cars on the highway that night had slid into the ditch with the icy conditions. So even say with a recumbent trike to help stay upright there's the worry of other drivers losing control.

Anyway just wondering if anyone else rides on fast roads in winter conditions and any tips.

The Winter Cycling Forum is chock full of great information and tips... figure that most of the folks who post in there are car free, hard core commuters, or just plain loopy.

:)

I'll ride in most conditions, a torrential downpour doesn't even make me hesitate, but ice and snow terrify me. When it snowed in Seattle last week, I left the bike at home and walked to work. (It's only 3 miles, so I have that luxury...) How do you guys do it? When it snows here, every street is an ice rink. How do you keep from falling every couple of blocks?

Gerv: I loved the video; thanks for posting it.

It's a knack, like almost anything else we do. Practice, practice, practice.

Riding on ice is a lot like driving on ice--don't do anything sudden. Plan ahead so you don't have to stop quickly, turn sharply, or accelerate rapidly. If you do have to stop quickly, sometimes it's better to lean the bike a bit and use your foot to stop. (Obviously this can't be done by most riders if you''re going faster than 10 mph or so.) A lot of riders put their seat a little lower when conditions are icy.

As for the bike, use a stable one like a MTB or touring bike if you can. Platform pedals are probably best for most riders. Studded tires are great, but you can use knobbies too. Cyclocross tires are said to be good on a road bike, but I never tried them.

The Winter Cycling Forum is chock full of great information and tips... figure that most of the folks who post in there are car free, hard core commuters, or just plain loopy.

:)

Agreed, but keep in mind that these are mostly hardcore winter riders. Don't let the posts on the Winter Cycling Forum scare you.

Most of us everyday cyclists will be on plowed roads and trails. Most of us will only ride 30 to 60 minutes at a time, so we don't need that super-warm clothing they talk about on the winter forum. We're usually in town so we don't need survival gear. If I start to get cold, I just stop at a coffee shop or something and warm up for a few minutes, and I don't have to worry about getting stomped on by a moose or anything.

It's the packs of wolves that run alongside that are really motivational... you know they are just waiting for you to fall down.

:)

<-> How do you guys do it? When it snows here, every street is an ice rink. How do you keep from falling every couple of blocks? <->
I use a trike, best for snow riding ever.
We do not often have snow here, a couple of days in the year on average, but last winter we had a couple of weeks and this year it has started snowing in November and it is sticking around for at least a week. (Which is very long for snow here that early in the year.)
I used to go to work and before that school, whatever the weather, but did not go out of pleasure or even meetings that could be avoided if there was a chance on slippery roads.
Now I just go, steady on three wheels.

Helping is that most of the commute is on bike paths and 30 km/h (20 mph) city streets. Very low traffic if i manage to miss the school runs.

:lol:

I use a trike, best for snow riding ever.
We do not often have snow here, a couple of days in the year on average, but last winter we had a couple of weeks and this year it has started snowing in November and it is sticking around for at least a week. (Which is very long for snow here that early in the year.)
I used to go to work and before that school, whatever the weather, but did not go out of pleasure or even meetings that could be avoided if there was a chance on slippery roads.
Now I just go, steady on three wheels.

Helping is that most of the commute is on bike paths and 30 km/h (20 mph) city streets. Very low traffic if i manage to miss the school runs.

From what I see in Dutch YouTube bike videos (we watch those a lot around here...:)), the snow doesn't actually develop into ice. It stays mainly sloppy and wet... which means it should be ok for biking. Are studded tires used very much?

I learned with this much snow frequent breaks, and plenty of coffee upon arrival are in need. And im jumping on the bangwagon for the diy studded, they are great, now that i made one im gonna stud a new tire, (i was a little nervous to use a new tire first)
http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j210/fizzaly/2010-12-01061449.jpg

From what I see in Dutch YouTube bike videos (we watch those a lot around here...:)), the snow doesn't actually develop into ice. It stays mainly sloppy and wet... which means it should be ok for biking. Are studded tires used very much?

That's the problem with Arkansas, we don't get snow so much as we get ice and sleet. So the road surfaces become slick and lumpy. Last winter I got to ride a bus that was skating sideways down the hill. That was interesting. I'm not sure if even studded tires would help there.

Studded on a bike, at least the DIY ones any kind of ice really doesn't stand a chance last week i was on completely glare ice i could see the stars reflecting off the surface and i was riding as normal

Studded on a bike, at least the DIY ones any kind of ice really doesn't stand a chance last week i was on completely glare ice i could see the stars reflecting off the surface and i was riding as normal

Our ice tends to be really lumpy.

EEEKKK you guys gots a case of the lumpy ice:) ive also found them to work very well over frozen slush, the kind that ends up on the side walks and side of the road from cars splashing, i know thats not really what your talking about.

From what I see in Dutch YouTube bike videos (we watch those a lot around here...:)), the snow doesn't actually develop into ice. It stays mainly sloppy and wet... which means it should be ok for biking. Are studded tires used very much?

I live in the west of the country where we get less snow than average, here I have never seen studded tires. I do not think I ever heard about studded tires till I started reading English language bike information.
And as all people I know own and ride a bike, many of them round the year, I think I can safely say that studded tires are very uncommon.
Till a few years ago even nearly no car had winter tires, chains are only allowed in deep snow which is rare in the east of the country and almost unheard of in the west. The only reason Dutch drivers own chains is that they go to other countries where snow is more common.

Our snow does get to ice, in those few streets with just the right amount of cars, if it happens to stay long enough. Last year I rode one street like that on the trike every day, I did not see many bikes there, as there are many alternative streets in that part of the city. And certainly nobody rode there with studded tires.

In the worst years there might be snow for 3 months, but till now the weather never stayed below freezing the whole day the whole time. So most snow gets to slush which will freeze again if it drops below freezing the next night.
This kind of weather is so rare that most people can name a few years it happened. This winter might become one if the predictions are right, but for this weekend they have predicted an end to snow.

One kind of weather which is rather common, a few times each year but some years worse, is iced over streets from rain falling on frozen streets, often rain that is just above freezing temperature itself.
The result is ice that is smooth and thick enough to ice skate on. And some years my brothers went to school skating, even though it was 3 km/2 mile of city streets to get to school.
They predict that this cold period will end with rain, changing all roads into mirrors, even when salted and plowed clean the snow period.
I have not had to ride the trike in that, but I would love to. I have just to be careful not to encounter cars out of control.

Studded on a bike, at least the DIY ones any kind of ice really doesn't stand a chance last week i was on completely glare ice i could see the stars reflecting off the surface and i was riding as normal

I could make studded tyres that would be suitable for racing across skating rinks but they would suck for daily riding in the city and have handled those kinds of conditions on my normal studded tyres and have been more stable on my bike than I would have been had I been walking or driving.

[

And as all people I know own and ride a bike, many of them round the year, I think I can safely say that studded tires are very uncommon.


In the worst years there might be snow for 3 months, but till now the weather never stayed below freezing the whole day the whole time. So most snow gets to slush which will freeze again if it drops below freezing the next night.

One kind of weather which is rather common, a few times each year but some years worse, is iced over streets from rain falling on frozen streets, often rain that is just above freezing temperature itself.


So what do most cyclists do when they have very icy conditions, but no studded tires? Does the city put salt on streets?


I could make studded tyres that would be suitable for racing across skating rinks but they would suck for daily riding in the city and have handled those kinds of conditions on my normal studded tyres and have been more stable on my bike than I would have been had I been walking or driving.

I normally bike 2 or 3 times a year in conditions so icy I can't walk. Actually, a couple of times after riding a good distance, I'll get off and almost slip as I put my feet on the ground. Studded tires are expensive, but great in winter.

I did fall dismounting last week, didint get my leg all the over the top tube and fell right on my butt

I did fall dismounting last week, didint get my leg all the over the top tube and fell right on my butt

I did that the first time on studded tires, started wearing YakTrax (http://www.yaktrax.com/)...

Aaron :)

I live in the west of the country where we get less snow than average, here I have never seen studded tires. I do not think I ever heard about studded tires till I started reading English language bike information.
And as all people I know own and ride a bike, many of them round the year, I think I can safely say that studded tires are very uncommon.
Till a few years ago even nearly no car had winter tires, chains are only allowed in deep snow which is rare in the east of the country and almost unheard of in the west. The only reason Dutch drivers own chains is that they go to other countries where snow is more common.

Our snow does get to ice, in those few streets with just the right amount of cars, if it happens to stay long enough. Last year I rode one street like that on the trike every day, I did not see many bikes there, as there are many alternative streets in that part of the city. And certainly nobody rode there with studded tires.

In the worst years there might be snow for 3 months, but till now the weather never stayed below freezing the whole day the whole time. So most snow gets to slush which will freeze again if it drops below freezing the next night.
This kind of weather is so rare that most people can name a few years it happened. This winter might become one if the predictions are right, but for this weekend they have predicted an end to snow.

One kind of weather which is rather common, a few times each year but some years worse, is iced over streets from rain falling on frozen streets, often rain that is just above freezing temperature itself.
The result is ice that is smooth and thick enough to ice skate on. And some years my brothers went to school skating, even though it was 3 km/2 mile of city streets to get to school.
They predict that this cold period will end with rain, changing all roads into mirrors, even when salted and plowed clean the snow period.
I have not had to ride the trike in that, but I would love to. I have just to be careful not to encounter cars out of control.
In the American midwest, we get all those forms of weather in the same week--sometimes even on the same day. One time I went to work on a pleasant spring-like afternoon. By the time my shift was over the temperature had dropped 30 degrees, there was a 40 mph wind, and the entire city was covered by a sheet of ice. That was a fun ride home!

I remember reading the Hans Brinker stories when I was a kid, about a heroic Dutch boy who skated on the canals. I've heard that the canals rarely freeze over any more. Is that true? do the Dutch still do a lot of ice skating?

http://www.delart.org/images/store_pix/posters/hans_brinker.jpg

So what do most cyclists do when they have very icy conditions, but no studded tires? Does the city put salt on streets?
When it is near or under freezing temperatures the roads are salted as preventive, mostly helps enough if there is just a light layer of ice. Cycle pathes get their salt before the main roads in many cases. And the municipality keeps spraying salt as long as it is cold.

If there is heavy ice or snow the country comes to a standstill.
We do not often have weather that is so cold that the ice stays on the roads, mostly the problems is solved with a few hours.
People who would normally ride their pikes might use the car if they have one, walk if it is not too far, or hope that the bus or train does run. If you can easily be missed at work you might call in that you come later or take a day off, as employers also know that in some cases it is impossible to travel.
So people get their (old/cheap) skates out and skate the streets.
And some people just get on the bike and manage not to fall.
It is the only kind of weather that used to keep me in the house unless I had to be out.

Some people have 'spike soles' for under their shoes to walk the icy conditions, others try with a sock outside their shoes, the rest just slips and hopes not to fall too often.


I remember reading the Hans Brinker stories when I was a kid, about a heroic Dutch boy who skated on the canals. I've heard that the canals rarely freeze over any more. Is that true? do the Dutch still do a lot of ice skating?

There is a distinct difference between the west of the country where I live and the east, when we have a few days of freezing weather they mostly have a few weeks. This means that in the east of the country the canals stand a good chance of freezing over. Right now there is enough ice around the country to ride almost every pond, ditch, and a good many canals that are not too deep and shallow parts of lakes.

And there are many ice rinks that are paved over or grass in summer and filled with water in winter, sometimes just an inch or two at most, till that is frozen and then a new layer of water is added, sometimes a foot of water.

If there is no natural ice schools will take the kids for an outing to an icerink with cooling system, mostly a few times in winter. If the kids or their parents like skating they will go more often as family.
My niece was 9 before there was natural ice she could skate on, but she had been skating since age 6 or even before. And that is common here now.

If you look at the speed skating world championships you will almost always see some Dutch in the top, often 3 out of the top ten each distance, although not every year they are that good. This is only possible because all Dutch are put on skates and those with talent encouraged to train regularly.

...it'll be covered with white stuff soon. We got a first dusting of snow today, and if it's a typical winter we'll get several heavy snowfalls before Christmas--all white and no sign of green or brown for several months. A lot of people keep on riding here in Michigan, and I can't be the only one who actually enjoys it!

Does anybody have suggestions that they want to share for snow and cold? Or questions to ask, fears to get over, or an (irrational) sense of impending doom?
Yes!

My tip: pack your belongings and move to somewhere fit for human habitation. :D

I did that the first time on studded tires, started wearing YakTrax (http://www.yaktrax.com/)...

Aaron :)

I really dug these when I first tried them, then broke three pairs while running and hiking. I still use them for running around town, where I need to be able to get them on and off easily, but if you don't need to remove your traction then you'll get more miles and better grip by drilling screws into the knobs of an old pair of running or hiking shoes.


My tip: pack your belongings and move to somewhere fit for human habitation. :D

Sez you. I live in one of the most amazing places in the world, and winter is the best season. Downhill skiing, XC skiing, backcountry skiing, ski touring, the stark beauty of the winter landscape, sunrise on the ice-choked ocean, snowy mountains tumbling into the sea, Dall sheep on the highway eating road salt, moose everywhere, bears gone to sleep (a very good thing, for us backcountry humans), kids sledding, couples ice skating, curling up with your SO under a pile of blankets, hot cocoa in a backcountry cabin, the northern lights, sunsets igniting flaming red alpenglow reflecting off of the snow, and did I mention skiing? Summer's great and all, and I really love all of the sunlight it brings, but winter kicks ass.

Yes!

My tip: pack your belongings and move to somewhere fit for human habitation. :D

You mean like some place that doesn't have multi-year droughts, water shortages, and hellacious wild fires every year?

:innocent:

You mean like some place that doesn't have multi-year droughts, water shortages, and hellacious wild fires every year?

:innocent:
...don't worry about the fires and droughts, chances are one of the snakes, spiders, blue ring octopus, sea shells, sharks, salt water crocodiles, or any number of other lethal fauna will get you first. :eek:

I live in Sydney and we have the Sydney funnel web spider - seen the fangs on that puppy? I use welding gloves in the garden for good reason!

http://www.virginmedia.com/images/funnel-web-spider-431x300.jpg

and this is an 'orb weaver', considered to be practically harmless (unless you're a small bird, I suppose)...
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_iq2vQY1Jeaw/SQBzGQwN18I/AAAAAAAAJYY/Kdu3G5ideDc/s400/spider1.jpg

Sez you. I live in one of the most amazing places in the world, and winter is the best season. Downhill skiing, XC skiing, backcountry skiing, ski touring, the stark beauty of the winter landscape, sunrise on the ice-choked ocean, snowy mountains tumbling into the sea, Dall sheep on the highway eating road salt, moose everywhere, bears gone to sleep (a very good thing, for us backcountry humans), kids sledding, couples ice skating, curling up with your SO under a pile of blankets, hot cocoa in a backcountry cabin, the northern lights, sunsets igniting flaming red alpenglow reflecting off of the snow, and did I mention skiing? Summer's great and all, and I really love all of the sunlight it brings, but winter kicks ass.
That does sound like a really nice place... but I just couldn't give up my year-round veggie garden.

p.s. I hope my 'tip' was taken as the light-hearted joke it was meant to be... no offense intended :)

It's the packs of wolves that run alongside that are really motivational... you know they are just waiting for you to fall down.

:)

:lol: :lol:

My commute is in the vicinity of Gillette Stadium. This morning I had to outrun packs of enraged New York Jets Fans (Last night: New England Patriots-45, NY Jets-3 :p).

+43cm of the white stuff as of this morning, and increasing as we speak. Snowplows everywhere, but the roads and especially the MUPs are not nearly cleared yet.

I have a pair of Nokian W106s, they're great on ice and hard packed snow. Not so great on deep, lumpy snow as they cut straight through. Riding in snow up to hub level is tough work!

--J

dang, im able to say hello to the ground now, stupid rain melting all of the snow, booooooo:(

+43cm of the white stuff as of this morning, and increasing as we speak. Snowplows everywhere, but the roads and especially the MUPs are not nearly cleared yet.

I have a pair of Nokian W106s, they're great on ice and hard packed snow. Not so great on deep, lumpy snow as they cut straight through. Riding in snow up to hub level is tough work!

--J
This is from the country that invented (or at least perfected) studded bike tires. You're right about deep snow--it's like riding on the sand at the beach. At least it's soft if you do fall. Ice is hard, but not as hard as concrete, and it's slippery so you're a lot less likely to get road rash.

In the American midwest, we get all those forms of weather in the same week--sometimes even on the same day. One time I went to work on a pleasant spring-like afternoon. By the time my shift was over the temperature had dropped 30 degrees, there was a 40 mph wind, and the entire city was covered by a sheet of ice. That was a fun ride home!

Sounds like this Thanksgiving here. At 10:30 am I was sitting at my desk with the windows open and sweating. By noon, I had to put a jacket on. By 1 a huge thunderstorm rolled through and by evening it was freezing. If you don't like Arkansas weather, just wait for a few minutes it might change to something you do like.

Sounds like this Thanksgiving here. At 10:30 am I was sitting at my desk with the windows open and sweating. By noon, I had to put a jacket on. By 1 a huge thunderstorm rolled through and by evening it was freezing. If you don't like Arkansas weather, just wait for a few minutes it might change to something you do like.
Also sounds like the weather in laramie WY, i lived there for a year and one day say an 80f temp change in one day was 70 and sunny in afternoon and by midnight was -10 and sleeting.

Also sounds like the weather in laramie WY, i lived there for a year and one day say an 80f temp change in one day was 70 and sunny in afternoon and by midnight was -10 and sleeting.

I'm jealous of all you folks getting good winter weather. So far we've only gotten a couple inches of snow. It has been fairly cold though, for December. Usually December here is warm and snowy, while January is cold and dry. So far it's been the other way around. :(

It has been getting colder here in Miami, but at least its not snowing.

Indeed. Nice to emerge, blinking, into the daylight...



Fantastic, thanks. Never heard of a Robertson screw before.

An old retired guy I know takes a huge supply of Robertson screws and drivers down to his American pals in FL every winter. He used to load up every November at the hardware store I used to work at part time.

It has been getting colder here in Miami, but at least its not snowing.

Get out.

:)

An old retired guy I know takes a huge supply of Robertson screws and drivers down to his American pals in FL every winter. He used to load up every November at the hardware store I used to work at part time.

And here's why..

http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcT3QZmx8Ne3w_9w7PHB3HJ0LxAFdvyGX_WXTUbUvrcpUNggUNFT