Bicycle Mechanics - Rim failure from alot of use and using brakes equally.

I'm a commuter that puts on over 5,000 miles a year on my Motobecane Fantom CX between work, church, and training for long rides.

In the last two years I've gone thru two rear rims. First one (original) because of the weight carried in the rear panniers and me - vertical stress fracture at one of the spoke openings. So I had a Velocity rim built last year and in the course of one year I made the rim sidewalls go concave and on the left side seam of the rim develop a crack about an inch long horizontally on either side of the seam. The rim was still true, I'm religious on cleaning the pads and rims every week. That was $200 for that rim.

I just replaced the rim with a second Velocity rim. Now I know Velocity rims are great rims, I just put it thru a lot of use. I've been using both brakes equally but dollars and cents wise got me to thinking of not only using the front brake more often but in 2011 switch the front fork and go to mechanical disc brakes for the front for greater braking power, save some $$$, and keep the rear brakes the same.

Any thoughts of my game plan?

Since changing to a disc brake on the front means changing the hub as well, you might consider going to a drum brake hub instead. That way, you can keep your present fork. You just need to work out a way to secure the reaction arm, but a hose clamp will work if you're not too concious of style.
Sturmey Archer makes band clamps with a slip in pocket in various diameters as well.

Forgot to mention there would be a new front rim and most likely with a dynamo hub generator.

Forgot to mention there would be a new front rim and most likely with a dynamo hub generator.
Well, even better. A Sturmey Archer XL-FDD has a dynamo and a 90mm drum brake. Lotsa woah power.
http://www.sturmey-archer.com/products/hubs/cid/2/id/48

I think it is a good plan. I primarily use my front brake and my rear rim still wears out faster and I could never figure out why. Maybe because the rear brake is so much less effective you actually have to use it more? Maye rear brake pads get filled with grit faster?

Luckily (or unluckily) for me, most of my rims die from 'misadventure' before they ever get their sidewalls worn down. Although I had better start riding more carelessly as I noticed this past weekend on my hybrid that they are starting to get concave.

Anyhoo, any type of hub brake will eliminate rim wear, obviously. And in my opinion, the only time you need to use the rear brake is in very low traction situations when crashing is likely due to the front tire skidding, or braking while going around a corner. So you can save your rear brake for when you need it.

Also, if you paid $200 for just a rim and spokes to be built onto your old hub then you paid too much. Subsequent replacements should be done on the same hub and should cost you just a little over $100, IMHO.

On good road conditions the front brake should be the one seeing more use, so maybe there's room for some technique improvement.

If you are going for a new front wheel there's an excellent chance to switch brake solution as well. S-A has a drum brake/dynohub combo. Shimano has a roller brake/dynohub combo. I'm not currently aware of any disc brake/dynohub combo, but I can't say that I've looked for one.
IMO there's a small advantage to drums when compared to discs for a commuter. Although discs these days don't require a lot of care, drums are an even more fit & forget type of thing.

I'm a commuter that puts on over 5,000 miles a year on my Motobecane Fantom CX between work, church, and training for long rides.

In the last two years I've gone thru two rear rims. First one (original) because of the weight carried in the rear panniers and me - vertical stress fracture at one of the spoke openings. So I had a Velocity rim built last year and in the course of one year I made the rim sidewalls go concave and on the left side seam of the rim develop a crack about an inch long horizontally on either side of the seam. The rim was still true, I'm religious on cleaning the pads and rims every week. That was $200 for that rim.

I just replaced the rim with a second Velocity rim. Now I know Velocity rims are great rims, I just put it thru a lot of use. I've been using both brakes equally but dollars and cents wise got me to thinking of not only using the front brake more often but in 2011 switch the front fork and go to mechanical disc brakes for the front for greater braking power, save some $$$, and keep the rear brakes the same.

Any thoughts of my game plan?

First, the rim fracture around a spoke hole isn't because of the load you are putting on the bike. It's most likely due to a poorly tensioned spoke that was allow to move within the rim. The constant flexing of the rim around the spoke cracks the aluminum and leads to failure. I'll bet you didn't check the spoke tension when the bike was new.

Secondly, $200 for a rim! They saw you comin', boy! $200 for a hand built wheel with a new hub and spokes would be steep! I'll agree that the wheel should have failed in a year but then we don't know all the details of your usage. Do you ride with wide tires on narrow rims? Drop off curbs? Just happened to pick up a bit of rock in the pads and have it score the rim? Hit potholes while sitting in the saddle?

I don't think that this is about how you use your brakes or which one you use. I think it has more to do with how you use your bike. I've ridden mostly mountain bikes with rim brakes and I haven't had all that many rim failures. I have had rim failures due to loose spokes and I have had a couple of rims wear out. Rim failures due to loose spokes are more random events than rims wearing out...and more common. To wear out rims takes more than the amount of riding you are putting your bike through. I'm not religious about cleaning pads and rims and I've only worn out a couple of rims.

There's nothing wrong with going for a disc if you want it but you are going to be looking at a lot of expense to do it. You'll need a new hub, spokes and wheel as well as the caliper and fork. If you go to the guy that sold you the $200 rim, you're going to be looking at $$$$$$$$$ for the conversion:eek: Find another shop.

But do look at the way that you ride. Try to ride the bike lighter which means using your body to absorb the impacts instead of making the bike do it.

I'm not sure that I accept that wearing a road/commuter through because of braking as quickly as you did is either normal or acceptable. I'm curious did your rim show cracks after wearing down to the wear indicator (if it had one) or before.

Two things I've seen cause premature rim flange failure is over-inflation of larger section tires, and brake shoes bearing too high on the rim.

Many commuters, including myself use large section tires to make us more carefree about the condition of our local streets. That's fine, but you need to keep in mind that the pressure stress on the rim is proportional to both the tire pressure and the tire section. The same pressure in a tire twice as wide causes double the stress on the rim flange. Larger tires don't usually need to be inflated to their max rated pressure to obtain best performance, and riding on somewhat lower pressure will improve rim life, traction, and make for a better ride.

Brake shoe position is also important. When the shoes are high on the flange of the rim, brake shoe pressure flexes the flanges, and over time can cause metal fatigue and stress cracking. Mounting the shoes so they strike at the box section if possible reduces the flex and related fatigue.

You might also consider your choice of brake shoe compound, and how you use the brake. Long braking cycles as on descents heats the metal and increases wear, you're generally better off using wind drag to advantage for speed control, combined with pulsed braking which gives the rims a chance to cool.

pay no more than $90 for a velocity rim. Even then, it should be more like $60.

at $200, you're better off with a DT swiss, Mavic or Ambrosio rim.
And even those rims are $100 tops. Spokes should be no more than $1 each for the cheaper straight gauge and $1.50 for the better double butted kind.
OF course, I am talking in USD prices.

pay no more than $90 for a velocity rim. Even then, it should be more like $60.

.

I assumed (maybe wrongfully) that the OP was including rim, spokes and labor for a rebuild with the Velocity rim, not $200 for the rim itself. At that it's isn't low, but not as far out of line.

Side note about rebuilding and this forum. I'm a big believer on rebuilding on existing hubs as the best value for wheels, of course depending on the quality, and condition of the hub. But I find that whenever people ask about rebuild vs. factory wheel they're told that factory wheels a re a better value and a high price is quoted for rebuilding as the basis of comparison. Now when someone has rebuilt, he's told he paid too much and it should have been less. No comment except that I find the floating economics interesting.

I primarily use my front brake and my rear rim still wears out faster and I could never figure out why. Maybe because the rear brake is so much less effective you actually have to use it more? Maye rear brake pads get filled with grit faster?
I also use my front brake as the primary one and my rear rims (and brake pads) still wear out much faster. I'm fairly sure it's because the rear wheel lives in much dirtier conditions particularly if you ride in the rain or other bad weather. The rear gets all the spray and grit thrown up by the front wheel so it lives is an abrasive bath and wears accordingly. Fenders help but don't completely even out the wear. If you want to reduce wear on the rear rim a REAR disc brake would be the way to go.


Also, if you paid $200 for just a rim and spokes to be built onto your old hub then you paid too much. Subsequent replacements should be done on the same hub and should cost you just a little over $100, IMHO
Agree. I recently had a rear wheel rebuilt with a Velocity Aerohead rim and DT straight 14 ga spokes using an old but excellent Dura Ace 7700-series hub that was too good to discard. The cost of parts and labor from my LBS was $115 including sales tax.

I also recently purchased a complete "Dimension" rear wheel from Jenson USA with a Tiagra hub, an Alex R390 rim and 32 DT spokes for less than $100 complete. It came properly tensioned and true and only needed a small amount of dish adjustment to make it nearly perfect. So far it's worked extemely well.

It's the friction of brake shoe on rim that stops you, of course,
clean rims, and brake pads free of embedded grit
make your rims last longer,
.. wash your bike, at least that part.


I have 20 trouble free years of use on my Sturmey Archer Elite UK made hubs.

Now the Sun Race owned expansion of the S-A product lines
includes a S type Cassette Rear Drum/freehub..

I have 20 trouble free years of use on my Sturmey Archer Elite UK made hubs.

Now the Sun Race owned expansion of the S-A product lines includes a Cassette Rear Drum/freehub..

sturmey archer steel hub shells and flanges are heavy, but almost infinitly reusable, since they don't get notches like aluminum flanges.

But the bend in spokes is assuming thicker alloy flanges, so build needs washers on the hook
if you use thinner steel flange hubs.

... Or seek out Galvanized spokes from that older era.

But the bend in spokes is assuming thicker alloy flanges, so build needs washers on the hook
if you use thinner steel flange hubs.

... Or seek out Galvanized spokes from that older era.

spoke washers are cheap and easily had.
you can also go for cutting down a 2.3-2.0mm single butted spoke.

Since changing to a disc brake on the front means changing the hub as well, you might consider going to a drum brake hub instead. That way, you can keep your present fork. You just need to work out a way to secure the reaction arm, but a hose clamp will work if you're not too concious of style.
Sturmey Archer makes band clamps with a slip in pocket in various diameters as well.
I just use a vinyl-coated P-clamp:
http://www.os2.dhs.org/~john/commuter/05.jpg

I use the front brake primarily and have only had rim wear issues on the front. Fortunately our area is pretty dry and we only get rain during the winter and early spring so that reduces the number of rides where grit is thrown onto the rims. My front rims last about 60 kmiles before the brake surface becomes too thin and I've never worn out a rear rim. So for me rim brakes are acceptable - especially since I get replacement Sun rims for about $20, reuse the old hub and spokes, and spend about an hour switching out the rim.

But the OP is seeing much more wear - which might well be due to different riding conditions. Commuting on rainy days on streets with lots of surface grit can wear the rim down quickly. So I'd agree with his plan to switch to a hub brake (either drum or disk) on the front and to use the rear brake only when really necessary (i.e. emergency stops and sometimes on slippery surfaces).

Am I missing something? The OP is wearing out REAR rims yet most posters are discussing improving his FRONT brakes. As I mentioned, if he wants to protect his rear rim, substitute a drum or disc brake in the rear.

I'm guessing that sourdough lives in a region where there's a good amount of rain. During my own rainy weather commuting I found that the rear wheel got far, far, far dirtier than the front. I'm guessing it was because the front stirred up all the gunk and grit which got sprayed onto or picked up by the rear wheel. In any event my own rear rims wore out at least twice as fast as the front rims. I wore out two sets of rims in about 4 or 5 years. It would have been more frequent but I was sharing ride time between 4 bikes. This wearing away at the rims is why I finally went with disc brakes on two of my trail and commute bikes.

And yes, the rear does wear out far more quickly because of all the sprayed up or disturbed grit and grunge that the rear sees compared to the front which runs through "clean" water for the most part. Even if you use the rear much less than the front it will still wear just as fast or faster than the front.

FNinNY said: "That's fine, but you need to keep in mind that the pressure stress on the rim is proportional to both the tire pressure and the tire section. The same pressure in a tire twice as wide causes double the stress on the rim flange."
Would you mind explaining how you reached this conclusion?

FNinNY said: "That's fine, but you need to keep in mind that the pressure stress on the rim is proportional to both the tire pressure and the tire section. The same pressure in a tire twice as wide causes double the stress on the rim flange."
Would you mind explaining how you reached this conclusion?
Surface area. Do the math.

Many commuters, including myself use large section tires to make us more carefree about the condition of our local streets. That's fine, but you need to keep in mind that the pressure stress on the rim is proportional to both the tire pressure and the tire section. The same pressure in a tire twice as wide causes double the stress on the rim flange.

+1
I learned the hard way that just because a 1.9" tire is rated for 75psi, doesn't mean the rim can handle it.
The first rim (Mavic) lasted a year before the sidewall cracked.
The second (identical) rim lasted a month before the sidewall cracked.

FNinNY said: "That's fine, but you need to keep in mind that the pressure stress on the rim is proportional to both the tire pressure and the tire section. The same pressure in a tire twice as wide causes double the stress on the rim flange."
Would you mind explaining how you reached this conclusion?

well, take a look at a cross section of a tire. It's basically a tube with a slit down one side.
When you inflate the tire, it wants to expand in all directions, but the rim and casing keep it from doing that. The tire casing, in it's natural state is sort of a"U" shape instead of being a tube or completely flat. Of course, if the tire is allowed to expand freely, the tube will burst. Now a narrower tire on a rim can only expand so far until it gets into a "U" shape, at which point it's maxed out. On a wider tire with the same rim, the tire won't max out to it's "U" shape, and put extra pressure on the rim, trying to split it down the center.

FNinNY said: "That's fine, but you need to keep in mind that the pressure stress on the rim is proportional to both the tire pressure and the tire section. The same pressure in a tire twice as wide causes double the stress on the rim flange."
Would you mind explaining how you reached this conclusion?

You know this already, you just don't know that you know it.

It's a concept that anyone who sails is familiar with. As the wind picks up you reef the sail to reduce it's area so it or the rigging isn't blown apart. It's also something you probably learned as a child when you noticed that balloons get easier to blow into as they get larger. You can also demonstrate it with bubble gum.

Here's how it translates to tires.

Keep in mind that pressure is force per unit area. Since the circumference of the tire is constant (roughly) the area is proportional to the cross section of the tire. Doubling the area, doubles the total force acting on the tire, which is in tension and, constrained by the rim flange, pulls it outward.

It's pretty hard to blow a rim apart with an 18mm tire, but easy with a 2.125"

I appreciate the information. I don't bunny hop, jump curbs, etc. I avoid potholes wherever possible. The tires I ride with are Schwalbe Marathon Plus 700 x 28's at 85 psi for most of the year and Schwalbe Marathon Winter 700 x 35's at 75 psi for winter. Yea it rains here in the Puget Sound area just a wee bit :innocent:

Am I missing something? The OP is wearing out REAR rims yet most posters are discussing improving his FRONT brakes. As I mentioned, if he wants to protect his rear rim, substitute a drum or disc brake in the rear.

My way of thinking as of this point is an SA drum brake with dynamo hub with Velocity 36 spoke rim to place the vast majority of braking on the front to save wear and tear on the rear rim (leaving it the same).

I bike in the PNW and have gone through quite a few rims, all from brake wear. The OP is correct. If you use brakes equally, the rear rim wears out first. I believe that's because the front wheel throws up grit, even with a fender and flap, and the rear rim picks it up. So I started using the front brake more than the rear, but then all that happens is you wear them both out. Whoop-de-do.

The solution is extremely simple: have the rims replaced with Open Pro Ceramic rims. This not the same as Open Pro CD! The OP will have to have the LBS special order the rims, and they will cost more than a normal Open Pro. I usually pay $90-$100 for just the rim. However, they just don't wear out. As far as I can tell, it's a permanent fix. I advise switching to the Koolstop green pads that are meant for ceramic rims. You can use black pads, but they wear out quicker. You'll go through the first set of pads pretty quickly, but then pad wear is more normal.

If the shop does a good job of building the wheels, they will last for many years, even in the PNW.

My way of thinking as of this point is an SA drum brake with dynamo hub with Velocity 36 spoke rim to place the vast majority of braking on the front to save wear and tear on the rear rim (leaving it the same).
Apparently you don't grasp the concept that in wet or dirty conditions, rear rims wear out faster unless you don't use the rear brake at all. The OP isn't ruining front rims so what's the rush to save them?

The OP isn't ruining front rims so what's the rush to save them?

hey!!! logic isn't allowed in this forum!

1. I'm bothered at the 5000 miles spec. Even in bad conditions, I expect a little more from a rim - unless the OP's brake pads are truly turning into sanding blocks from grit pickup and the like.

2. Open Pro ceramic? That's a lightwieght racing clincher, not an everyday or commuter rim. Think the sidewall problem is solved? Hello eyelet pull through! It's a soft-as-hell rim as well. I've had so many customers go that route and wise up later I've lost count.

Alex Adventurer, Alex G6000, Mavic A719 would be much better choices.

Definitely, disc or drum is something to consider. However, I have noticed from hanging out in shops that disc brake bikes that spend a lot of time in the rain and mud go thru a lot of pad changes in the rear. Same problem with the rear getting grit while the front gets by Scott free?

=8-)

Personally, I've never experienced (or noticed) the faster rear rim & brake shoe wear rate others report, but there's enough smoke out there, that there might be a fire.

But I'm not sure I buy the theory that the rear gets more weather or is exposed to more grit and debris by virtue of it's position. Isn't just as likely that the rear gets throw-off of oils from the drive train, which makes the rim stickier than the front?

I find myself using the rear brake a bit more than I usually would during adverse weather.
It's probably because I'm chickening out on a front lock. which I've done occasionally.
use the front brake as much as possible.

1. I'm bothered at the 5000 miles spec. Even in bad conditions, I expect a little more from a rim - unless the OP's brake pads are truly turning into sanding blocks from grit pickup and the like.

2. Open Pro ceramic? That's a lightwieght racing clincher, not an everyday or commuter rim. Think the sidewall problem is solved? Hello eyelet pull through! It's a soft-as-hell rim as well. I've had so many customers go that route and wise up later I've lost count.

Alex Adventurer, Alex G6000, Mavic A719 would be much better choices.

Definitely, disc or drum is something to consider. However, I have noticed from hanging out in shops that disc brake bikes that spend a lot of time in the rain and mud go thru a lot of pad changes in the rear. Same problem with the rear getting grit while the front gets by Scott free?

=8-)I don't know how you build your wheels, but neither I nor anyone I know has ever had one of these rims fail. I hang out with a very high mileage crowd. How about 30,000 miles/year? That get your attention? It's pretty easy to build a wheel that doesn't have spoke or eyelet problems.

"My way of thinking as of this point is an SA drum brake with dynamo hub with Velocity 36 spoke rim to place the vast majority of braking on the front to save wear and tear on the rear rim (leaving it the same)."

Apparently you don't grasp the concept that in wet or dirty conditions, rear rims wear out faster unless you don't use the rear brake at all. The OP isn't ruining front rims so what's the rush to save them?
Since the OP (i.e. sourdoughT) has already stated that he plans to use the rear brake only minimally it seems he understands that concept just fine. That's what I do and therefore have only had the front rims wear out.

Also, if you paid $200 for just a rim and spokes to be built onto your old hub then you paid too much. Subsequent replacements should be done on the same hub and should cost you just a little over $100, IMHO.

This would all depend on the rim and spokes used, what the shop charges for the work, and lacing an old hub to a new rim usually involves a stripping charge which should not be too much if the rim and spokes will be scrapped.

You should factor in $30.00 - $40.00 for most wheel builds, $1.00 - $1.50 for spokes, and the cost of your rim.. at my little shop bulletproof starts at $120.00 Cdn and bombproof might run $160.00 Cdn if you were using a Velocity rim and double butted spokes or another premium quality rim.

And you can spend more as there are more expensive rims out there like the Mavic 719 which run at $90.00 msrp so you could get pretty close to $200.00 for a rebuild if you really went top shelf.

I can build a set of apocalypse worthy wheels (much better than bombproof) and these run $700.00 a set but unless you weigh three bills or ride a touring tandem they are overkill. :)

Anyways... extreme rim wear like this may be caused by the brake pads you are using as some are notorious for accelerating rim wear and disc brakes can relieve you of that stress and are especially good if you live in a wetter climate as this contributes to increased rim wear.

Tektro brake pads seem to be the absolute worst (great stopping power with lots of wear) while Kool Stops (great stopping power and far less wear) will greatly extend your rim life and a good quality rim should last 15,000 km or more under normal conditions with rim brakes.

It makes good sense to run a disc up front and a rim brake in the rear as the front brake should be doing most of the work... if the rear rim is wearing out you are using the rear brake far too much.

Carbonfibreboy - How many people ride 30,000 miles in a year ?

That is 82 miles a day, every day for a year.

I think rabbit and I agree on the Mavic A719 as being an excellent rim but would choose a disc over a drum on the front as you will have much better braking power.

Rear wheels do pick up more crud in bad weather and another part of this is due to the chain and cassette throwing off small amounts of lube which acts as a dirt magnet for your rear rim which will usually be dirtier in nicer weather because of this.

This in itself is a good reason to make sure you are very conservative when you lube your chain and makes sure it is wiped completely clean and kept wiped down.

But I'm not sure I buy the theory that the rear gets more weather or is exposed to more grit and debris by virtue of it's position.
Yeah, it really does. Just look at the rear wheel of your bike if you get caught in the rain on a long ride. The rear rim will be filthy and the front nearly clean. I have a Surly Cross Check that's my dedicated rain/bad weather bike so it has full fenders. Nevertheless, after each ride the rear rim is a mess and the front fairly clean. I hose it down after most rides and the difference in what I wash off of each rim is very clear.


Isn't just as likely that the rear gets throw-off of oils from the drive train, which makes the rim stickier than the front?
Don't you sell a chain lube that's not supposed to let this happen? :)

Carbonfibreboy - How many people ride 30,000 miles in a year ?

That is 82 miles a day, every day for a year.

I think rabbit and I agree on the Mavic A719 as being an excellent rim but would choose a disc over a drum on the front as you will have much better braking power.

Rear wheels do pick up more crud in bad weather and another part of this is due to the chain and cassette throwing off small amounts of lube which acts as a dirt magnet for your rear rim which will usually be dirtier in nicer weather because of this.

This in itself is a good reason to make sure you are very conservative when you lube your chain and makes sure it is wiped completely clean and kept wiped down.I only know one person who rides that much. He does a 20 mile commute each way, does another 20 urban miles at noon, and then only has to do a quick 40 in the evening to get his 100 for the day. He runs Conti 4000 tires now. So I have to laugh when people say you can't commute on a good road rim or run good road tires. No, instead you're supposed to run a heavy, wide rim, put on wooden tires that don't hold worth a **** in the wet, and make the experience a lot less fun.

Besides perhaps being just a trifle curious how his wheels last so long in the PNW under this usage, I would think people might be a trifle curious about his drive train. Most of the serious LD riders in this area run ceramic rims. Discs are nice, but are expensive, heavy, put more strain on the wheel, need special fitments, and aren't foolproof either. In any case, no one I know runs them here except for the occasional tandem.

Our area is known for its crappy streets and the propensity to spread grit on the roads in winter, then not sweep until spring.

the cost of koolstop salmon pads adds up too.
one pair of pads is roungly $10 and they do wear out faster compared to the harder compounds that wear out your rim faster.

I'd still have koolstop salmon pads over the hard stuff in adverse weather, because they do stop better with less leverage.

Yeah, it really does. Just look at the rear wheel of your bike if you get caught in the rain on a long ride. The rear rim will be filthy and the front nearly clean. I have a Surly Cross Check that's my dedicated rain/bad weather bike so it has full fenders. Nevertheless, after each ride the rear rim is a mess and the front fairly clean. I hose it down after most rides and the difference in what I wash off of each rim is very clear.


Don't you sell a chain lube that's not supposed to let this happen? :)

Yes, though I'm some will leach off in rough weather. OTOH, it's probably less than with some other products which people slop onto their chains every week. It's too soon to know if Chain-L users' rear rims hold up any better, but who knows, maybe I'll add the claim "improves rim life" to the label.

Regardless of the cause the remedy is available and cheap. Once in a while (a while being whatever anybody feels is appropriate to his needs) put some dish detergent and water on a paper towel and wipe the braking surface of your rims down. I don't bother, and in 40 years and 100,000 miles of all weather riding have never worn a road rim down far enough to split, probably because the eastern roads I ride on manage to kill them off other ways first.

Hillrider describes what my bikes looked like during the winter wet season. Around here once winter comes you're happy if the water isn't actually falling on you. And it's a given that the roads, paths and trails will be wet and have puddles for weeks and weeks at a time. A spotlessly clean bike only needs about a 20 minute ride in such conditions to turn the whole rear of the bike into a grungy, gritty mess with brakes that sound like sandpaper.

Frankly I don't see altering the braking practices to using the front mostly or exclusively in the wet. Opting to use mostly the front brake out of a misguided plan for trying to ensure that the rear rim lasts longer will lead to facial erosion. There's just too many "things" out there such as painted white lines, oil spots, slippery mud in the bottoms of shallow puddles, etc, etc that will make the front wheel lock up too easily if the rider is focusing all his braking on the front wheel in wet conditions. Either that or the stopping distances will open up if the rear is avoided. And making this into a habit COULD lead to avoiding the rear or applying the front too hard in an emergency where if the rider was used to using both to the maximum grip permitted by the conditions would have made an emergency into just a close call.

It's time to face the fact that rims used on rim braked bikes are a consumable item. Get over it and ride properly instead of trying to compensate out of some misplaced sense of frugality. Try to wash the bike decently often to minimise the erosion but accept that the rear will get eaten away faster than the front.

It's time to face the fact that rims used on rim braked bikes are a consumable item. Get over it and ride properly instead of trying to compensate out of some misplaced sense of frugality. Try to wash the bike decently often to minimise the erosion but accept that the rear will get eaten away faster than the front.

So, did you catch the common sense bug? Oh No!! This could be contagious, and spread like wildfire, possible shrinking the forum traffic volume by half.

I don't know how you build your wheels, but neither I nor anyone I know has ever had one of these rims fail. I hang out with a very high mileage crowd. How about 30,000 miles/year? That get your attention? It's pretty easy to build a wheel that doesn't have spoke or eyelet problems.

1. Be honest.
2. Read my sig.

=8-)

So, did you catch the common sense bug? Oh No!! This could be contagious, and spread like wildfire, possible shrinking the forum traffic volume by half.


Well you started up this whole common sense social movement in one of the other threads. But now we gotta get some group movement on this. After all as the great philosper Arlo Guthrie once sang in "Alice's Restaruant";


....You know, if
one person, just one person does it they may think he's really sick and
they won't take him. And if two people, two people do it, in harmony,
they may think they're both ******s and they won't take either of them.
And three people do it, three, can you imagine, three people walking in
singin a bar of Alice's Restaurant and walking out. They may think it's an
organization. And can you, can you imagine fifty people a day,I said
fifty people a day walking in singin a bar of Alice's Restaurant and
walking out. And friends they may thinks it's a movement.



:D

We definitely need to see more posts with 8x10 glossy photos with circles and arrows and a paragraph to explain...

We definitely need to see more posts with 8x10 glossy photos with circles and arrows and a paragraph to explain...

Funny you say that FBinNY...

Just last week I did another run to the metal recycler to recycle spent rims and defective rims. Just a few nights ago I revisited pardo.net where there are tons of photos of failures, defects, etc. I nearly kicked myself realizing that for the past 7-8 years I should have been doing the same, taking photos of all the failed rims that can be used to highlight failure modes and their causes - including one that just about all of us are guilty of: GREED

In last week's pile of about 20 rims were a few Open Pros, one Open 4 CD, a Reflex clincher and a Matrix Mt. Aero.

The three Mavic products had the classic eyelet+surroundingmaterial pull through. The Matrix product had no eyelets - just pull through.

All are products that fall into the "lightweight racing clincher" category not really meant for everyday use. Sure I could get away with it - my own support is free. But I certainly don't recommend it nor sell it to my customers. However, if they insist and pay for it - welp - other than liability concerns - the customer pretty much gets what they want.

Just two days ago one of my double wall hybrid rims without options returned with pull through in about a dozen holes. I'm debating whether I should just from here on out order all of this particular rim model with eyelets and CNC - instead of bare and eye/CNC. It holds up fine bare with sub-200 lb. riders - but not 325 lb. riders like with the last two.

The diff to the retail customer is only about $1.50.

I can't go with three versions because my supplier will raise the minimum quantity issue...

What do you think?

=8-)

You can get rims with a ceramic plasma surfaced brake track,
that are very wear resistant.

just not in all sizes..

Well here it is a year later. The rear rim is doing great! NO SIGNS OF ANY PROBLEM WHATSOEVER!!! :)