Living Car Free - Is it ethical to ride toddlers on your bike?

Here was the question to "the Ethicist" at the New York Times:


My wife and I frequently transport our 4-year-old and 1-year-old by bicycle. They wear helmets and ride in a trailer or bike-mounted seats. People sometimes challenge us, asking if this is safe. The chances of our being hit by a car are low, but the consequences could be catastrophic. Is it O.K. to take the kids by bike when our admittedly safer, albeit not risk-free, car is available? DEREK PELLETIER,PORTLAND, ME.

What is your answer?

Read more: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/12/magazine/12FOB-Ethicist-t.html

IMO yes, people have been doing it for many of years, my parents rode me around on the back of a bicycle when i was a small child, and im sure the child carriers of today are much safer than what was out in the 80's (yes im young). Im mean really so long as you're being safe about it, its not much different than being in a stroller pushed down the street.

I agree wholeheartedly with the Ethicist. His answer is spot on.

I agree wholeheartedly with the Ethicist. His answer is spot on.

Me too.

I would feel better about it if it was in a trailer than on a seat higher up on the bike. If we are honest about it one of the few things than happen to bicyclists is we fall down a bit more often than we like to admit. The danger of a fall seems a lot less likely from a trailer where the child is only a few inches higher than the ground. A few wet leaves on a corner and both the cyclist and their child could end up on their side with a child seat on the bike. A little road rash might not be too bad for an adult but I shudder to think of the baby skin getting ground down by pavement. At least that was the reasoning I used when transporting my son when he was small and before he could ride himself.

Get a Bakfiets...
(http://www.workcycles.com/home-products/child-transport-bicycles/bakfiets-nl-cargobike-extra-long)

As far as the ethical part? Hell yes! More children are killed or severely injured in car accidents than any other method. IIRC car accidents are the leading cause of death in children.:notamused:

Aaron :)

Neat NYT column.
+1 wahoonc
NPR recently reported (http://m.npr.org/news/U.S./131918000?singlePage=true) that car accidents are the leading cause of toddler death.

Compare 40,000 auto-related deaths per year to the number of bicycling related deaths in the USA. Any time we avoid using an auto, we eliminate the chance of ourselves (albeit unwittingly) being a more deadly risk on our roads.

I've enjoyed taking my boys around in the trailer much more than a rack-mounted seat.

What is your answer?


Tell them to mind their own business.

That's a no-brainer!
Is it ethical to raise your child in a lifestyle with healthy and responsible values? Of course!
Why would anybody need to write in to an 'ethics expert' to figure that out?

Is it as simple as that? Let parents do as they wish?
I watched with great concern as a young father was riding a skate board while his wife/So walked behind him with a stroller. The part that concerned me was the father on the skateboard was holding an infant. He may have been able to skate better than I can even if there was a time I was better than average on a board. But still it looked like a disaster in the making. Isn’t anyone the least bit concerned about the safety of a child if the bike and parent fall over? I am not talking death I am talking injury to head and body parts.

Don't child trailers tend to have seatbelts?
I think it's a given that parents would make sure the apparatus is reasonably safe.
It's implied in the term 'parent.'
But saying it's irresponsible to take your kid for a ride unless he's in a bullet-proof box isn't reasonable.

Maybe it would be a good idea to ask just how many expressing their opinion actually have little kids now or have transported their own children on a bike?
I still am uncomfortable with the child seat on the bike idea because of the danger of a fall. And yes most child trailers do have a seat belt. I even installed a small roll cage in the one we had when my son was small. I only had one accident when riding with him going to the grocery store. Someone opened a car door just as I was riding past and I slammed into the door post. My bike slammed hard into the side of the car and I fell down. My son wasn’t hurt and the trailer didn’t even fall over. But if he would have been in a child seat at least he would have hit his shoulder, and more than likely his head, on the side of the car.
So how many have kids and transport them with a bike seat?

When I lived in Japan I transported my son by bicycle when he was an infant (carrying him facing my chest in a sling), then transfered him to a forward facing seat in front of me at about 6 months old. All the other parents did the same thing. Not a single one - child or parent - wore a helmet. I never heard of a single bicycle accident or injury in that time either. And they did this all without bike lanes or any other such "infrastructure".

We live in California now and my kids are now 15 and 12 and though the 12 year old tends to wear a helmet of her own accord for some reason, the 15 year old doesn't and it doesn't bother me much. He has received two tickets for not wearing a helmet while skateboarding though. Americans are soft, with all their safety concerns and intrusions into each other's lives!

Maybe it would be a good idea to ask just how many expressing their opinion actually have little kids now or have transported their own children on a bike?
I still am uncomfortable with the child seat on the bike idea because of the danger of a fall. And yes most child trailers do have a seat belt. I even installed a small roll cage in the one we had when my son was small. I only had one accident when riding with him going to the grocery store. Someone opened a car door just as I was riding past and I slammed into the door post. My bike slammed hard into the side of the car and I fell down. My son wasn’t hurt and the trailer didn’t even fall over. But if he would have been in a child seat at least he would have hit his shoulder, and more than likely his head, on the side of the car.
So how many have kids and transport them with a bike seat?
I have a 6 year old, when he was much younger i would put him in a bike seat, and it really isn't much more dangerous than a stroller, what happens with a stroller if it suddenly folds on its self which ive had happen, also what happens if you trip and fall with a child in your arms. Basically there is so many ways a child can get hurt. Besides we all know children bounce, i watched in horror as my son when he was a little over 1yo fall down a half flight of steps (i slipped on a wet floor and lost grip of his hand) he didnt even cry i was more injured than him. Everything is dangerous if you talk about it enough.

Between my two sons, I've transported kids in trailers and on trail-a-bikes to daycare and other destinations for at least five years, all year long, rain or shine, at least 5 days a week, and during the dark in winter months. I started them both in the trailer when they were approaching their first birthday. For one year, my older son even rode his 18" mini BMX on the 5-mile RT to daycare BEFORE he started kindergarten. Probably will do the same thing with #2 when he's old enough. When the youngest starts school it will all end because school is only 3-blocks away and easier to just walk.

I've encountered some really stupid driving on these trips with the kids, but have never felt my kids were put in a life-threatening situation, either due to traffic or exposure to the elements. We've actually had more hair-raising experiences walking around the neighborhood then we ever have had cycling on roads.

My oldest son (presently 6) had more experience riding on roads by his 5th birthday than most adults will ever have. Most of the teenagers in the neighborhood ride their BMXs around in the evenings without reflective gear and without regard to any road rules. He sees them and immediately calls out their stupid, risky behaviors. Rather than considering all the riding he has done as an added risk, one could argue that his early development of cycling skills has really mitigated future risk.

I have never encountered any serious resistance from other people regarding commuting with kids, aside from occasional (and not unexpected) comments about being crazy and so forth. People tend to think that I am most nuts when ice and snow is involved, but I have generally found that traffic goes way around you when pulling a kiddie trailer in these situations.

In my experience trailers are very safe, including situations (e.g ice, extreme cold, extreme rain) that may not be safe with the kid mounted directly on the bike. I have fallen maybe twice (ice) over the years with the trailer in tow, the trailer always stays upright. On the other hand, I have actually flipped the trailer exactly twice...once the right trailer wheel launched off the curb at speed and was dragged on its side for a good distance before I realized what had happened. Another time the trailer flipped when I made a very sharp sudden turn. We have a Burley Solo trailer, which is a pretty narrow trailer and probably more prone to flipping than a wider trailer intended for 2 kids. However, I do not believe flipping the trailer at reasonable speeds is a serious concern..it didn't make me crash and the kid was always unharmed. Both times my son just thought it was fun to get flipped. I once had the trailer up to 35+ mph going downhill with no problems (although I don't recommend this for obvious reasons). Good quality trailers are pretty safe if you have the kid strapped in correctly.

I've encountered some really stupid driving on these trips with the kids, but have never felt my kids were put in a life-threatening situation, either due to traffic or exposure to the elements. We've actually had more hair-raising experiences walking around the neighborhood then we ever have had cycling on roads.

mihlbach... great post!

Often the things we think most dangerous aren't quite as dangerous as the things we think safe. I'm sure a kid in a bike trailer stands a better chance than a kid on a crosswalk.

More people meet their death in front of the television...

More people meet their death in front of the television...

funny story...I was once watching a movie at home and witnessed a cockroach crawl across my floor. The little beast stopped in the middle of the rug and sort of propped itself up into a semi-erect posture a few feet in front of the TV as if to watch. Being lazy, I let the cockroach be for quite some time. Thinking nothing of it, I eventually went to remove the cockroach from my rug, only to find that it had died in that very position as if the TV itself had killed it!

Between my two sons, I've transported kids in trailers and on trail-a-bikes to daycare and other destinations for at least five years, all year long, rain or shine, at least 5 days a week, and during the dark in winter months. I started them both in the trailer when they were approaching their first birthday. For one year, my older son even rode his 18" mini BMX on the 5-mile RT to daycare BEFORE he started kindergarten. Probably will do the same thing with #2 when he's old enough. When the youngest starts school it will all end because school is only 3-blocks away and easier to just walk.

I've encountered some really stupid driving on these trips with the kids, but have never felt my kids were put in a life-threatening situation, either due to traffic or exposure to the elements. We've actually had more hair-raising experiences walking around the neighborhood then we ever have had cycling on roads.

My oldest son (presently 6) had more experience riding on roads by his 5th birthday than most adults will ever have. Most of the teenagers in the neighborhood ride their BMXs around in the evenings without reflective gear and without regard to any road rules. He sees them and immediately calls out their stupid, risky behaviors. Rather than considering all the riding he has done as an added risk, one could argue that his early development of cycling skills has really mitigated future risk.

I have never encountered any serious resistance from other people regarding commuting with kids, aside from occasional (and not unexpected) comments about being crazy and so forth. People tend to think that I am most nuts when ice and snow is involved, but I have generally found that traffic goes way around you when pulling a kiddie trailer in these situations.

in my experience trailers are very safe, including situations (e.g ice, extreme cold, extreme rain) that may not be safe with the kid mounted directly on the bike. I have fallen maybe twice (ice) over the years with the trailer in tow, the trailer always stays upright. On the other hand, I have actually flipped the trailer exactly twice...once a trailer wheel launched off the curb at speed and got drug on its side for a good distance before I realized what had happened. Another time the trailer flipped when I made a very sharp sudden turn. We have a Burley Solo trailer, which is a pretty narrow trailer and probably more prone to flipping than a wider trailer intended for 2 kids. However, I do not believe flipping the trailer at reasonable speeds is a serious concern..it didn't make me crash and the kid was always unharmed. Both times my son just thought it was fun to get flipped. I once had the trailer up to 35+ mph going downhill with no problems (although I don't recommend this for obvious reasons). Good quality trailers are pretty safe if you have the kid strapped in correctly.

Yes I agree and the trailer is lower to the ground in case you do fall. It is just that almost every weekend you see someone take a fall on a MUP or at the beach and even if it is one adult the disatance to the ground from saddle height seems as it it would hurt a child even in a slow fall. I see it all the time and I too realize the parent has to assess the safety. But we put our children in special car seats and belt them in even if a parent feels confident they will not get in an accident.

Oh well to each their own I simply prefer a trailer for small children. My son was riding his own bike by about 6 so he never was in a child carrier on a bike. The tag-a-longs are great as well.

Thinking nothing of it, I eventually went to remove the cockroach from my rug, only to find that it had died in that very position as if the TV itself had killed it!

:lol: Probably succumbed to boredom. Were you watching the CBS Evening News?

I can imagine his last words, "This is such utter bullsiht".

Sometime before my son reached his third birthday, we gave away the trailer bike he had been riding on and put him on the front seat of a rear-steer tandem. We much preferred this option to the trailer bike because if anything happens, like him losing his balance, the stoker/steerer can grab him before he falls off. Neither my wife nor I ever put him in a trailer. Unlike Robert, we both felt the trailer was the most dangerous option. Trailers are wider than bikes and thus are a larger target, and are more likely to flip over.

As an added safety benefit, a tandem with a young child as a stoker gets noticed, especially when the "captain" takes his hands off the handlebars and turns around to chat. When the people in cars are staring at you, they are much less likely to run into you.

My son just turned twenty and still lives car-free. Of course, that is not too difficult with his college three miles down the bike path from our house.

When the people in cars are staring at you, they are much less likely to run into you.

Haha, great strategy.

I agree wholeheartedly with the Ethicist. His answer is spot on.

+1

Seemed like a decent answer in the column although there was probably still too much emphasis on choosing safe routes away from traffic, etc. given that people drive their kids all over the place with no such concerns. When our daughter was young I took her on bike rides frequently adding up to about 3000 miles. Many of the rides were on my daily commute where I dropped her off at a daycare center on the way to work. Sometimes used a trailer but mostly used a child seat on the back of my bike. We did have one accident when I got right-hooked. I got some minor road rash, but she was fully protected by the sides of the child seat and never touched the ground.

Given the fact that in this country automobiles kill over 100 people per day in crashes, and probably that many again due to air pollution, environmental degradation etc, I would ask if it is ethical to drive a car, with our without children. The question is ethical in nature, and I believe that placing society at risk as a result of your transportation choices is highly unethical. I am not sure of how may people are killed by cyclists carrying toddlers in trailers, but I am pretty certain that the number is quite low.

FWIW, I transport my grand-daughter in a trailer. Like the ethicist, my children have outgrown the trailer and ride their own bicycles now.

I'm becoming convinced that children should be encased in amber to keep them safe. :rolleyes: After all look what it does for prehistoric animals.

http://www.antiquetrader.com/upload/contents/290/field_1745/lizard%20in%20amber.JPG

I don't like the idea of kids on toddler seats attached to the bike nor to a trailer for reasons:

1. If an accident occurs, most likely it will be worst for those on the bike (or riding in a trailer).
2. It doesn't matter how large the tires are, the rider's body is still a suspension component thus reducing amount of bumps. Kids have no such protection.

I would never put my child on a bike seat. Even if I were riding off of the road, there would still be the lack of comfort problem.

My toddler goes everywhere with me on my bike. She calls it her bike. I'm just the engine. She rides in a front seat and next spring will probably move to a rear seat. We're working on being car-lite and there's no way to do that if I can't take my kid with me. From my experience, it's much easier to just plop her in the seat and go than deal with a trailer. Most of our trips are less than 5 miles, I've had more near-accidents in a car than I've had on my bike with her. When people see us, they smile and give us more space than if I were on my own. I much prefer to have her on the bike with me so we can talk, so I can see what she's doing, so she's visible to traffic, so that she's learning to balance... Having a trailer below a driver's eye level scares me.

Maybe it would be a good idea to ask just how many expressing their opinion actually have little kids now or have transported their own children on a bike?
I still am uncomfortable with the child seat on the bike idea because of the danger of a fall. And yes most child trailers do have a seat belt. I even installed a small roll cage in the one we had when my son was small. I only had one accident when riding with him going to the grocery store. Someone opened a car door just as I was riding past and I slammed into the door post. My bike slammed hard into the side of the car and I fell down. My son wasn’t hurt and the trailer didn’t even fall over. But if he would have been in a child seat at least he would have hit his shoulder, and more than likely his head, on the side of the car.
So how many have kids and transport them with a bike seat?

My two grew up riding with dad on a bike in one format or another. We had a Cannondale Bugger trailer, it was one of the old ones with the plastic insert where they rode facing to the rear. We also had trail a bikes and seats that mounted on the rear of the bike on the rack. Only one wreck that I can recall and that was with the trailer, hit something in the road and trashed a wheel resulting in a sudden stop. Bike went down trailer stayed up.

I would guess that the trailer was pulled some 5,000 miles over the 3-4 year period that it was in use.

Aaron :)

I think the question boils down to, "Is transporting a child by bike ethical compared to transporting a child by car." The answer to the question is that ethics doesn't enter into it. No form of transportation is more ethical than any other (with the exception of transporting a child by strapping it to the outside of a single engine turbo prop flown by a legless blind guy with a heroine addiction. That's probably unethical.) The mode of transportation has no bearing on whether or not something is ethical. Is it safer to transport your child by car or by bike would be a better question. Then we look at statistics, and the question becomes a bit more muddled because the number of children being transported by car is far greater than the number of children being transported by car. Is the person riding through a dense metropolitan area, or a suburb? If the parent was riding through downtown Manhatten, splitting lanes, and riding against traffic while delivering packages maybe that's not the best time to have the kid on the bike. If the parent is riding in a less densely populated area like a suburb of oklahoma I think it's probably ok to leave the car at home.

If the parent is an experienced rider and uses caution and wisdom when transporting their children there is nothing unethical with strapping the kid to the handle bars and popping out for a muffin is fine. Are the consequences of a child on the bike and a car space time continuum problem potentially more catastrophic? Yes, but that's why their bones haven't fused all the way yet, so they can grow back.

Load the kids into the trailer and give the finger to anyone who questions you. End of story.

I love the great pictures in this related blog post on totcycle (http://totcycle.com/blog/rideabye-baby.html)

I love the great pictures in this related blog post on totcycle (http://totcycle.com/blog/rideabye-baby.html)

OH!

Those wicked, evil Totcycle people.

Ethics are always relative to the individual first, and society second.

My daughter (13-y-o in 2 days) pretty much grew up on two wheels; because her mom's bike was a hardtail, she had the child seat (that woman could leg-press a VW, so no snide remarks) until we got the trailer. I pulled that trailer for her, her brothers, groceries, you name it; still have the thing.... Also had another trailer, one that was more enclosed, but it was too small for anyone but my great niece @ 18 months. That one's gone now.

Hell, the things are MADE to haul children on bikes; why wouldn't it be 'ethical'? Such silliness, worrying about what ignorant and opinionated 'nannies' think.

Now, someone may question the ethics of my youngest stepson @ age 3-4 riding with me by 'surfing' the top tube while he wrapped arms around my neck, and I cradled him between my arms... but that was before the kid seat OR the trailer. That boy is 16 now, and rides EVERYWHERE.

I don't like the idea of kids on toddler seats attached to the bike nor to a trailer for reasons:

1. If an accident occurs, most likely it will be worst for those on the bike (or riding in a trailer).
2. It doesn't matter how large the tires are, the rider's body is still a suspension component thus reducing amount of bumps. Kids have no such protection.

I would never put my child on a bike seat. Even if I were riding off of the road, there would still be the lack of comfort problem.

It doesn't sound to me like you have any real experience with this whatsoever.

We ride daily with our two children on a Kona Ute. They are 3 and 8. The little one rides in a Peapod seat, the older one just perches on the deck. Just a couple weeks ago we were riding along and my husband hit a wet patch of leaves and crashed the Ute. My oldest suffered a minor bruise on his leg where the bike landed on top of it. The younger, strapped in tightly, didn't come in contact with the ground at all, even with the bike completely on its side. She was unharmed. My husband ended up with a swollen ankle and a bit of road rash. That is the only time in more than two years of being car-free that we have had a spill on the bike with the kids. We have each taken three or four spills without the kids, despite the fact that we ride more frequently with the kids than without.

I think there is a combination of factors that results in a lower accident rate for us with kids than without. For one, I know that I ride more slowly. For some reason I am very rarely in a hurry with them, but often am without them. Maybe I am rushing to get more things done while unencumbered. The bike itself is a little more stable than some of our smaller, lighter bikes. The most important, though, is that we attract a lot of attention hauling two kids on a funny looking long bike. Drivers notice us, and are markedly more cautious.

Anything we do will have risks. Life is an exercise in evaluation which risks are worth taking. For our family, the benefits of being car-free far outweigh the risks (which I personally think are fairly negligible compared the risks of owning and operating a car).

...The most important, though, is that we attract a lot of attention hauling two kids on a funny looking long bike. Drivers notice us, and are markedly more cautious...


This. My son is grown, but my car-free neighbors have four children ages 4-10. The safest place in town to ride is with them. It's like a parade and all the usual bike-hate is dissolved by the smiles of their cute children.

I agreed with the Ethicist's conclusion: this activity comes nowhere near the threshold of danger that would make it anyone else's business, and there is no need for guilt about a relatively safe activity. However...

He did not challenge the assertion that riding in a car is safer, and seems to accept it by default. I went searching for stats to prove or disprove it. I couldn't find a perfect match (parents hauling kids on a bike). But I found stats for kids going to school:

Deaths and injuries per 100,000 over 6 years:

bus--19
walking--301
cycling--33
auto--1488

Of course, stats are always tricky. How many used each type of transport? Will you judge by the trip, the mile, the hours spent travelling...?

Either way, that study seems to point to cycling as a relatively safe way to travel. To say that riding in a car is safer than cycling, there would have to be 50 times more kids riding in cars than riding their bikes to school. I'm willing to bet that's not the case.

One side note that caught my attention from the article:

In the early 1970s, for example, an estimated 66 percent of children walked to school. Since then, increased reliance on motor vehicles for transportation, changes in the commuting distance between housing and schools, and changes in zoning and building regulations have had an impact on the way children get to school.

I can say this was true at my elementary school back in the day, and it's sad that most kids no longer get that experience (or the excercise!).

http://onlinepubs.trb.org/onlinepubs/trnews/trnews237commute.pdf

I agreed with the Ethicist's conclusion: this activity comes nowhere near the threshold of danger that would make it anyone else's business, and there is no need for guilt about a relatively safe activity. However...

He did not challenge the assertion that riding in a car is safer, and seems to accept it by default. I went searching for stats to prove or disprove it. I couldn't find a perfect match (parents hauling kids on a bike). But I found stats for kids going to school:

Deaths and injuries per 100,000 over 6 years:

bus--19
walking--301
cycling--33
auto--1488

Of course, stats are always tricky. How many used each type of transport? Will you judge by the trip, the mile, the hours spent travelling...?

Either way, that study seems to point to cycling as a relatively safe way to travel. To say that riding in a car is safer than cycling, there would have to be 50 times more kids riding in cars than riding their bikes to school. I'm willing to bet that's not the case.

One side note that caught my attention from the article:

In the early 1970s, for example, an estimated 66 percent of children walked to school. Since then, increased reliance on motor vehicles for transportation, changes in the commuting distance between housing and schools, and changes in zoning and building regulations have had an impact on the way children get to school.

I can say this was true at my elementary school back in the day, and it's sad that most kids no longer get that experience (or the excercise!).

http://onlinepubs.trb.org/onlinepubs/trnews/trnews237commute.pdf

Having met with and talked to several parent groups from our local school district they express a twofold fear about their children walking or riding to school. I am not saying I agree or am I trying to justify their reasoning only tell people what they say at school board meetings. They are afraid of heavy morning traffic and they are afraid of their children being picked up by strangers.
The first fear has a touch of legitimacy if you see all of the cars on the streets in front of some of our schools every morning. But I believe much of that traffic is caused by parents driving their kids to school. The second is exacerbated by how the media and some neighbors react to the number of kids that do get snatched off of the street. In some cases these abductions garner National attention and that puts the children’s safety foremost in the parent’s mind.
Things are different than they were when many of us were kids. Go to Megan’s list and type in your own zip code and most of you will be surprised. Parents fear them as much as traffic I think.
When I was in Kenya I noticed little kids maybe five or six walking miles to school. I talked to a few men about the difference between most of the US and Kenya when it came to letting small children walk by themselves to school. I was told that because of the structure of their society they more or less knew everyone in their surrounding area. The village elders would select the man they suspected of molesting one of their children and take him out into the country to discuss the problem with him. They never had a problem with the offending man again, ever. I didn’t press the issue because I could guess why.

Cargobikes/family bikes are very popular in many european city's. check this review out for example:

http://planet-dad.com/transportation/2011/08/green-three-wheeled-transportation-for-chic-urban-dads/

Things are different than they were when many of us were kids. Go to Megan’s list and type in your own zip code and most of you will be surprised. Parents fear them as much as traffic I think.

That brings up a good question about actual danger vs perceived danger. Has human nature actually changed that much, or do we just have better tracking of sex offenders. I still have a transcript from when I was a boy, that was copied for the police, where a stranger called me asking suspicious questions about my interest in photography and doing some modeling. (The fact that the man had my number and knew I was interested in photography should have pointed them right at the local camera store where I had film processed, but I doubt that they did a follow up).

From what I have read, the biggest actual danger to kids is from family members. But I have to believe that many of the parents who fear "strangers" so much, are similar to people who believe in WMDs in Iraq or that our President is a muslim. In other words, they don't tend to make sure that they understand what the situation is.

I'm reminded of when I was a child and had just gotten my own bike. I would go on rides with my dad and he would take my 4 year-old brother on the back of his bike. My brother would sit on a folded up towel placed on the rear rack and be told to hang on by placing his fingers through my dad's belt loops. He was also told to keep his dangling feet out of the rear wheel spokes. None of us wore helmets.

We rode many happy miles like that without incident. Nobody ever gave it a second thought that what we were doing might be "unsafe."

I used to ride on my dad's crossbar on family rides as a little girl. I did that until I was about six and could keep up on my own.

I guess we should be asking: "Is it ethical to ride with a child in a car?"

I guess we should be asking: "Is it ethical to ride with a child in a car?"

Thank You...car accidents are one of if not the biggest single killer of children.

Aaron :)

Don't you know parental decisions need to be bounced off the whole town now? What's wrong with you people? Get with the program.....

The biggest killer of children in the world is pnuemonia.....

The biggest killer of children in the world is pnuemonia.....

Yes, this is right ffor the entire world, according to WHO. (http://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140673605718778/abstract)

For just the United States (http://www.statisticstop10.com/Causes_of_Death_Kids.html), auto accidents are the leading cause of death of chlldren at almost 21 % of all deaths. Second is cancer at 17 %. (Remember that deaths of children are very rare in the US and more common in many other countries.)

I guess we should be asking: "Is it ethical to ride with a child in a car?"
+1... when I saw the thread title, this was my first thought.

My son got another no-helmet ticket on his bike, which required an appearance in juvenile traffic court and a scare-tactic lecture from the psuedo-judge. After my son had left the room, I told the guy that cycling is a terribly safe activity and that per mile of travel there are really no more head injuries from cycling than from walking and that if it costs me a couple hundred bucks in fines over the course of his childhood to get him to ride a bike, I'll gladly pay it, but that I felt dragging us down to appear instead of sending it in through the mail was a huge waste of everyone's time. I hope they don't make me appear next time!

My son got another no-helmet ticket on his bike, which required an appearance in juvenile traffic court and a scare-tactic lecture from the psuedo-judge. After my son had left the room, I told the guy that cycling is a terribly safe activity and that per mile of travel there are really no more head injuries from cycling than from walking and that if it costs me a couple hundred bucks in fines over the course of his childhood to get him to ride a bike, I'll gladly pay it, but that I felt dragging us down to appear instead of sending it in through the mail was a huge waste of everyone's time. I hope they don't make me appear next time!
My thought would be that if the kid is old enough to choose whether to wear a helmet, and old enough to determine which laws can be broken, then he's old enough to pay his own fines.

My son got another no-helmet ticket on his bike, which required an appearance in juvenile traffic court and a scare-tactic lecture from the psuedo-judge. After my son had left the room, I told the guy that cycling is a terribly safe activity and that per mile of travel there are really no more head injuries from cycling than from walking and that if it costs me a couple hundred bucks in fines over the course of his childhood to get him to ride a bike, I'll gladly pay it, but that I felt dragging us down to appear instead of sending it in through the mail was a huge waste of everyone's time. I hope they don't make me appear next time!

I'm assuming , then, that where you live has a helmet law, at least for kids; I'm not preaching on that subject, all I'll say is, if you'd rather give your money to the government than put the lid on the kid, it's your money and your life.

A lot of places have MHL's; I would still ride those places. My kids, probably not so much anymore. They HAVE helmets, but have grown used to riding without, and it's a toss-up whether they will join an organized ride (the last one, they begged off halfway through; said they were 'bored', and wanted to play on the playground equipment at the turnaround point.)

I agree, the personal appearance crap is onerous; did they give the usual 'spill your brains in a wreck' speech?