funbun
10-12-04, 10:42 AM
Is steel the "standard" frame metal used in touring bikes? There must be aluminum touring bikes. It just seems that all the frame builders are using steel for their touring frames.
Touring - frame material
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grahamja
10-12-04, 11:06 AM
Cannondale makes aluminum tourers. T800, T2000?
velonomad
10-12-04, 01:28 PM
Brazing or tig welding steel is less investment in equipment than Aluminum. Aluminum has to be heat treated after welding and most small shops don't have the facilities to do that( they can have it done by a third party) Steel can be repaired with crude torches ( mapp gas torch and brazing rods) but that isn't much of an advantage in practice since you can seldom get someone to work on a bike frame and there are few of us who do it ourselves. However in these days of overnight global shipping you can have a new frame delivered into the middle of nowhere within a week. Even Koga-Miyata is making thier venerable World Traveler from aluminum now. I have steel bikes because I make my own as a hobby, but if I were buying a bike I would equally consider aluminum.
funbun
10-12-04, 01:58 PM
Once again Steel is real!!!
jharte
10-12-04, 02:32 PM
Several years ago I read an article on steel vs. aluminum on loaded touring bikes. Cannondale came out with a really nice touring model and it was competing for the touring bike market. The article mentioned the "feel" of the bike when loaded. Steel is designed flex (through material and geometry) to give a nice ride while aluminum (with it's larger down tube) isn't designed to flex but will absorb road shock through the larger tubes and material. The article also mentioned the aluminum bikes were more nimble (probably due to tighter geometry). I think it would be interesting to here from someone who has toured on both. Personally, I like brazed lugged steel.
velonomad
10-12-04, 02:47 PM
Once again Steel is real!!!
If you want to troll the "steel Vs Aluminum" crap go elsewhere, I was giving you a honest opinion to what I assumed was a legit inquiry :(
If you want to troll the "steel Vs Aluminum" crap go elsewhere, I was giving you a honest opinion to what I assumed was a legit inquiry :(
funbun
10-12-04, 02:59 PM
It was meant as a joke. I should have put in a smilie. Not trolling just wanted to know that truth but I couldn't resist joking on the Alumy vs steel arguement. Notice the "place your bets" reply earlier in the thread by me.
AlanK
10-12-04, 05:23 PM
Several years ago I read an article on steel vs. aluminum on loaded touring bikes. Cannondale came out with a really nice touring model and it was competing for the touring bike market. The article mentioned the "feel" of the bike when loaded. Steel is designed flex (through material and geometry) to give a nice ride while aluminum (with it's larger down tube) isn't designed to flex but will absorb road shock through the larger tubes and material. The article also mentioned the aluminum bikes were more nimble (probably due to tighter geometry). I think it would be interesting to here from someone who has toured on both. Personally, I like brazed lugged steel.
I've done short tours 1-2 weeks on bikes made of either material. For shorter tours, I think either material will work just fine. If you're going to be doing extended loaded tours (over a month) in undeveloped countries, I'd go with steel. As mentioned, if a steel frame is bent or otherwise damaged it can be repaired by anyone with a blow torch. Repairing aluminum is more difficult, and in some cases impossible.
In all this discussion about frame materials, remember that frame falure is very rare. You're much more likely to have tire, wheel, or chain problems.
I've done short tours 1-2 weeks on bikes made of either material. For shorter tours, I think either material will work just fine. If you're going to be doing extended loaded tours (over a month) in undeveloped countries, I'd go with steel. As mentioned, if a steel frame is bent or otherwise damaged it can be repaired by anyone with a blow torch. Repairing aluminum is more difficult, and in some cases impossible.
In all this discussion about frame materials, remember that frame falure is very rare. You're much more likely to have tire, wheel, or chain problems.
SAB
10-12-04, 06:20 PM
Get whatever frame is most comfortable. Frames built out of any of the big four materials (Ti, Al, C, Fe) can be nice and comfortable or light and speedy. Steel is more durable than Al in general. If a touring bike is built with Al tubing that's designed to last and take loads it will probably not be much lighter than a similar steel frame. New steel alloys are being used to make specially-shaped steel tubes these days. These tubes can be used to make a very light steel frame with excellent handling characteristics, that will last forever if well cared for. Waterford, for example, can build you a steel frame in the range of <3.5 pounds. Personally, I like steel or carbon. Steel for cyclocross and touring, and carbon for racing/training/century rides. If I could it afford it, I'd probably get a custom-made titanium frame and build it with top-of-line components. Durability and feel of steel with the lightness of carbon.
funbun
10-12-04, 06:26 PM
I saw a Greg Lemond road bike at the LBS that was half steel half carbon fiber. The lower half, ie, the, downtube, bb, chainstays, etc were steel. Top tube, seat stays, etc were carbon fiber. Neat idea.
velonomad
10-12-04, 06:31 PM
It was meant as a joke. I should have put in a smilie. Not trolling just wanted to know that truth but I couldn't resist joking on the Alumy vs steel arguement. Notice the "place your bets" reply earlier in the thread by me.
It's cool, I have spent 3 days on airplanes dealing with surly people in airports and subsisting on really bad food. I need a good ride to get my mind on an even keel again :)
It's cool, I have spent 3 days on airplanes dealing with surly people in airports and subsisting on really bad food. I need a good ride to get my mind on an even keel again :)
saddlesores
10-12-04, 07:25 PM
yes, there are aluminum touring frames. (nashbar has theirs on sale now
for $89). imo, aluminum just doesn't feel right - too stiff and unforgiving.
steel has more flex and springiness, to glide over rough spots while fully
loaded. and speaking of fully loaded, since you'll be loading your bike with
racks and panniers and camping gear, does it matter if the frame is a couple
ounces lighter? take the smoother ride, and the peace of mind of knowing
that ole' bubba at the fillin' station can weld your frame in an emergency.
for $89). imo, aluminum just doesn't feel right - too stiff and unforgiving.
steel has more flex and springiness, to glide over rough spots while fully
loaded. and speaking of fully loaded, since you'll be loading your bike with
racks and panniers and camping gear, does it matter if the frame is a couple
ounces lighter? take the smoother ride, and the peace of mind of knowing
that ole' bubba at the fillin' station can weld your frame in an emergency.
jeff williams
10-12-04, 07:33 PM
yes, there are aluminum touring frames. (nashbar has theirs on sale now
for $89). imo, aluminum just doesn't feel right - too stiff and unforgiving.
steel has more flex and springiness, to glide over rough spots while fully
loaded. and speaking of fully loaded, since you'll be loading your bike with
racks and panniers and camping gear, does it matter if the frame is a couple
ounces lighter? take the smoother ride, and the peace of mind of knowing
that ole' bubba at the fillin' station can weld your frame in an emergency.
They can keep the $89 Nashbar frame. For fun, try to convince me it's not a POS.
The only good thing cheap is love baby.
Exception to the rule:
Our lucky member who scored a Ti mtb for $100.
I still am feeling freaked about that one......$100...oh man.
I have been riding a 1990 chromoly Ritchey bike for a year, not so hot on Alu anymore.
In factors of exteme weight, yes, I believe it has uses in frames. I prefer hand building, care on the machines I use, I do some of that crazy mtb stuff and that's what works for me- Chromoly steel.
Most all mtb are Alu now, I'm into serious cash for a new steel frame. Better stop jumping. :rolleyes: He.
for $89). imo, aluminum just doesn't feel right - too stiff and unforgiving.
steel has more flex and springiness, to glide over rough spots while fully
loaded. and speaking of fully loaded, since you'll be loading your bike with
racks and panniers and camping gear, does it matter if the frame is a couple
ounces lighter? take the smoother ride, and the peace of mind of knowing
that ole' bubba at the fillin' station can weld your frame in an emergency.
They can keep the $89 Nashbar frame. For fun, try to convince me it's not a POS.
The only good thing cheap is love baby.
Exception to the rule:
Our lucky member who scored a Ti mtb for $100.
I still am feeling freaked about that one......$100...oh man.
I have been riding a 1990 chromoly Ritchey bike for a year, not so hot on Alu anymore.
In factors of exteme weight, yes, I believe it has uses in frames. I prefer hand building, care on the machines I use, I do some of that crazy mtb stuff and that's what works for me- Chromoly steel.
Most all mtb are Alu now, I'm into serious cash for a new steel frame. Better stop jumping. :rolleyes: He.
funbun
10-12-04, 08:13 PM
Yeah with 30 to 60-lbs lbs of gear what's a few ounces off of the frame. I guess steel is like a pickup truck with air suspension. A really smooth ride where as Alumy is like a sports car ridged/rough riding for racing and whatnot.