Mountain Biking - Buyer beware Gary Fisher and Trek now!!!!

I never thought I would see the day. My last Gary Fisher, a 2008 X-Cal ( purchased late 09 )with a total of 245 miles on it developed a crack in a weld where the top tube meets the seat tube. Took it into my dealer and just got word. GF / Trek agrees it is a quality issue so they will warranty the bike under the "Lifetime Warranty" sorta, they do not have a 08 or 09 frame (so they say) so I get 25% off a new bike....at list I might add. They said that is the best they can do. In this case, I get to spent $1200 with GF / Trek for a new bike, when all I want is a new frame. I guess if this one breaks, they will give me another 25% off. Thats just wrong. I can take the same $1200 and get a nice custom frame built, switch my stuff over ( most of which has been upgraded anyway) and have a much better bike. I guess that just me, but that is far from the "lifetime replacement" they advertise. Just be ware, if you buy a Trek and GF and it breaks don't expect them to fix it for no cost like they used to, even if it is bad workmanship.

Bummer. When I first joined the forum in March, there was a guy with a nicer Fisher FS bike & he had a similar problem, but it was still just Gary Fisher back then & they gave him a frame worth several hundred dollars more & I think even swapped his components over for him. I guess that's to be expected when a small branch gets sucked into it's massive corporation. Still seems like they would honor the warranties of the people who bought their bikes as Gary Fisher.

It might be worth it to contact another GF dealer and see if they give you the same story.

It might be worth it to contact another GF dealer and see if they give you the same story.

Thanks!
I may, from what I understand this came from the Trek / GF warranty rep. and since they now have my SN on this bike, I am sure they will try to stay with the same story Fisher and Trek both hide behind the dealers and email, I tried to get a number for customer service or a DM but had no luck. I am not convinced Bicycle Sport Shop here in Austin did all they could, they thought the 25% discount was "Great news" and seem shocked that I was not willing jump on it. If this is how they treat there customers, why would I want to spend another dime with them. They didn't seem to get it. I told them I would like the offer in writing when I pick my bike up tomorrow.

The most I can do is spread the word and hope that no one else get screwed over. There are a lot of cool MTB makers here in ATX so I may just put that money down on a custom frame and swap the stuff over

tell them that you don't want 25% off. what the heck is 25% off when all you need is a frame? tell them that you want it fixed or replace for free.

Hey Mike! Go see Mark at University Cyclery and tell him I sent you. He is off on Thursdays but should be there on Friday.

tell them that you don't want 25% off. what the heck is 25% off when all you need is a frame? tell them that you want it fixed or replace for free.
Thanks CW
I did and they said they don't have any frames for warranty. ( not sure what that means ) That was the offer I could take it or leave it. Its sad, at one time GF was tops in standing behind there stuff. Lesson learned . I guess Trek figures they have Lance behind them, thats all they need.

That's the trek/fisher warranty program for ya.

Well I don't know what your opinion is on this, but their number is 512-345-7460 and I'd sure like to call them and tell them how I feel about it. If the OP is koo widdit, of course. I'd hate to ruin the 25 percent discount that you were promised, but if they get 50 phone calls from all over the US stating how obscene this is...they may get a better deal cooked up.


I hate seeing people get scrood by companies that give a warranty and don't honor it. BS man.

Heck...I'll start an Austin TX Craigslist ad in the bike section explaining it. Pink bike, regional forums, regional sub-forums of MTBR.

Let it fester a bit and then send links to all the bad press back to the owner of the crapshop.

OUCH!! My 2009 Jamis Trail-X 3.0 trailbike got a "hairline" crack just above the brace weld on the seat tube, Jamis not only replaced the frame w/o any problems, they sent me a "Durango 3.0" frame to replace it, very nice upgrade! Hope you can get something better out of GF/Trek than their orginal offer!

Feel free to give us the email of the local Trek/Fisher guy "dealing" with your issue. I know I would be happy to send them an email, and I'd bet others would too.

Well I don't know what your opinion is on this, but their number is 512-345-7460 and I'd sure like to call them and tell them how I feel about it. If the OP is koo widdit, of course. I'd hate to ruin the 25 percent discount that you were promised, but if they get 50 phone calls from all over the US stating how obscene this is...they may get a better deal cooked up.


I hate seeing people get scrood by companies that give a warranty and don't honor it. BS man.

Heck...I'll start an Austin TX Craigslist ad in the bike section explaining it. Pink bike, regional forums, regional sub-forums of MTBR.

Let it fester a bit and then send links to all the bad press back to the owner of the crapshop.

WOW, thanks for the support everyone, I figure blogging it out is the best I can do to make sure no one else knowingly gets screwed over by these guys and make sure people know what they are getting when they purchasing one of these products. Any dealer who sells GF/Trek should be ashamed. The LBS guys are always bad mouthing the Big Box guys like Performance Bike, one thing about it, they have a 100% satisfaction guarantee and at least they stand behind it.

If the shop gives me the name and # of the GF/Trek rep I will post, they initially did not want to give it to me. I am going to pick up my bike today and see if I can get anymore information. As I said Buyer Beware!!!!!!! This aint the old Gary Fisher we used to know for sure!
Peace!

For that offer, I would've countered with:

How about I find a local welder to repair it and it gets fixed that way under warranty and they throw in a bottle of touch up paint ?

A local welder might put a bigger, scabby looking weld on the location that is cracked & in need of repair, might be uglier than the original, but at least it'll be a solid frame again.

Nice looking bike btw:

http://fisherbikes.com/images/fisherbikes/bikes/2008/1600x1200/xcal.jpg
http://fisherbikes.com/bike/archivemodel/396

Similarly, I bought a hi-ten bike, the welds were pretty sloppy, but it was a $ 250 bike and is solid. I used a file to clean up & dress a weld that had a sharper edge than I felt good about. After smoothing it, I bought a vial of touch up paint from the local Discount auto and brushed enough on to protect it. Looks fine and matches (basic gloss black). What color is your bike ?

Add to that Marin: I bought a Marin with maybe 50 percent of the spokes kinda adjuted, the wheel essentially flew apart. Marin denied it, i blasted them on the internet. they replaced it with another afu wheel. Never again!!!

Once again, some 'suit' is on a golf course congratulating himself on how much money he saved the company by cheapening up the product and saving the company money. I was considering a GF/Trek purchase this spring but their products are now off the list. I hope this m'f'r has plenty of time to work on his chip shot.

For that offer, I would've countered with:

How about I find a local welder to repair it and it gets fixed that way under warranty and they throw in a bottle of touch up paint ?

A local welder might put a bigger, scabby looking weld on the location that is cracked & in need of repair, might be uglier than the original, but at least it'll be a solid frame again.

Nice looking bike btw:

http://fisherbikes.com/images/fisherbikes/bikes/2008/1600x1200/xcal.jpg
http://fisherbikes.com/bike/archivemodel/396

Similarly, I bought a hi-ten bike, the welds were pretty sloppy, but it was a $ 250 bike and is solid. I used a file to clean up & dress a weld that had a sharper edge than I felt good about. After smoothing it, I bought a vial of touch up paint from the local Discount auto and brushed enough on to protect it. Looks fine and matches (basic gloss black). What color is your bike ?

Its the same color as the pict. I have a the tools and know how to fix it myself, but I am not sure I will ever trust the bike. The more I think about it, I am not sure at this point I want another POS GF or Trek. If it breaks I will just have to go thru all this again. I think I will just buy a frame from reputable company and that way I will have my 29er up and going for the week I have off between Xmas and new year so I can ride as planned. I am afraid I will spend 3 week jacking with this only to be in the same spot.

push harder for a frame replacement - use words like "make me whole" that is lawyer and contract speak. get the new frame and dump it on ebay recoup some money toward your new frame plan.

Many (MANY) years ago I had a fork bend on my Trek mountain bike. We're talking one of the early models, early 80s timeframe. Anyway, we contacted Trek and they wanted us to send in the frame and fork to verify. About 4 days later we had a new frame and fork at the dealer to put everything back together. (They didn't have the same color frames as it was a new model year, and the fork wouldn't have matched the frame so they sent us both new.) I was impressed, and that's why Trek grew to be big... they took care of their customers. Now, after the GF fiasco and how they treated their GF dealers (who weren't Trek dealers) and other issues, I wouldn't buy a Trek, or any Trek brand again.

Good luck, and push them to get a frame and fork for you as if memory serves that's what they promise you on the life-time frame warranty.

What they offered is completely unacceptable in the context of the published lifetime frame warranty. There are no gray areas in this and no wiggle room for them; they have to make good on this. That they do not have a NOS frame is immaterial - - they have new frames that or comparable that they can send. That is standard procedure with other brands. You need to be forceful and if your shop won't press it for you with the regional rep, find another shop that will.

You should get in contact with Trek directly. I found a # for them on the internet, 800-879-8735. It sounds to me like the shop in question is trying to pull a fast one and sell a bike. Scuba shop owner I used to work for pulled that kind of scam all the time, told a customer something was out of warranty and then sold them a new product, warrantied the one they wanted us to throw away and then sold the new one that was sent as a replacement.

Its the same color as the pict. I have a the tools and know how to fix it myself, but I am not sure I will ever trust the bike. The more I think about it, I am not sure at this point I want another POS GF or Trek. If it breaks I will just have to go thru all this again. I think I will just buy a frame from reputable company and that way I will have my 29er up and going for the week I have off between Xmas and new year so I can ride as planned. I am afraid I will spend 3 week jacking with this only to be in the same spot.

Ummm, your talking about a weld that cracked, not the actual aluminum tubing itself ? So the frame still has it's integrity, the weld failed, not the tubing. Is it on the top side where the flared form meets the seat tube, the bottom or either side ? Can you provide a pic of the location and the actual crack ? I once had an aluminum intake manifold that developed a leak where the antifreeze ported thru it. The hole was actually located on the flat bottom plate. Took it down to the local welder and he heliarced the hole shut and I drove that car for a couple of years with the same manifold, even sold it to a woman and she drove it a couple of years after that. I don't think you have any more than an hour or so of effort, which includes picking out a local welder, calling them and taking it over and getting back home with it ? I bet the LBS & GF people jump at the counter offer.

Scuba shop owner I used to work for pulled that kind of scam all the time, told a customer something was out of warranty and then sold them a new product, warrantied the one they wanted us to throw away and then sold the new one that was sent as a replacement.

Wow. I hope you have made this public information. Maybe called the Better Business Bureau or whatever you do about this kind of shady stuff. That's such a crooked unacceptable thing to do.

I like what Doug said. Coming from a family of lawyers, I learned quickly that if you're forceful & articulate with your argument, you'll generally get what you want. Especially if all you want is what you deserve. Tell them that if they don't honor your warranty, you will move high up the food chain until you get the service you paid for. When someone comes into my store (it will stay unnamed, but it's around a 5,000 store chain) & threatens to contact my DM, that's when I start compromising (& more often then not, caving in).

Thanks for all the support and suggestion, the bike shop was much more cooperative after I asked for the denial in writing which after reading was obviously from GF / Trek I did get the names, phone numbers and emails of a couple of folks in the warranty department and a supposed DM. Its really hard to press via email and voice mail. So far my requests have been unanswered. They have a pretty sweet gig if you think about it, they hide behind the dealers and let them take all the heat. Off the record I was told this fracture was very common on this yr bike and they actually made some structural changes in the newer models. Soon as I manage to contact GF/ Trek I will let you know.

complete BS
if they do not have a 08 or 09 frame, they should give you a 10

Ummm, your talking about a weld that cracked, not the actual aluminum tubing itself ? So the frame still has it's integrity, the weld failed, not the tubing. Is it on the top side where the flared form meets the seat tube, the bottom or either side ? Can you provide a pic of the location and the actual crack ? I once had an aluminum intake manifold that developed a leak where the antifreeze ported thru it. The hole was actually located on the flat bottom plate. Took it down to the local welder and he heliarced the hole shut and I drove that car for a couple of years with the same manifold, even sold it to a woman and she drove it a couple of years after that. I don't think you have any more than an hour or so of effort, which includes picking out a local welder, calling them and taking it over and getting back home with it ? I bet the LBS & GF people jump at the counter offer.

I will try to get a picture, looking closer the crack goes into the frame itself, but at this point I consider nothing short of a new frame acceptable.

complete BS
if they do not have a 08 or 09 frame, they should give you a 10

That part of their argument, the 09s and 10s now use a tapered fork so they would be unable to use the Fox I have now. My response....And thats my problem how????? Crap give me a newer frame and sell me a replacement fork at cost. "Cant do that 25% off a new bike is all we can offer"

I recall a different thread about Trek customer service issues (http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?667195-After-15-years-I-quot-m-done-buying-Trek-bikes...).

I recall a different thread about Trek customer service issues (http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?667195-After-15-years-I-quot-m-done-buying-Trek-bikes...).

Misery love's company :)

That part of their argument, the 09s and 10s now use a tapered fork so they would be unable to use the Fox I have now. My response....And thats my problem how????? Crap give me a newer frame and sell me a replacement fork at cost. "Cant do that 25% off a new bike is all we can offer"They are so full of BS it is not even the slightest bit funny. First of all, you are right - - that's NOT YOUR PROBLEM. Secondly, they can easily remedy that by using the lower half of a reducer headset or tapered headset and let you retain use of your current fork.

That part of their argument, the 09s and 10s now use a tapered fork so they would be unable to use the Fox I have now. My response....And thats my problem how????? Crap give me a newer frame and sell me a replacement fork at cost. "Cant do that 25% off a new bike is all we can offer"

The X-cal has never used a tapered fork steerer....not even the 2011 model. Their argument is BS.

From the Fisher website, for the 2010 X-Caliber:
"1-1/8" threadless, semi-integrated, semi-cartridge bearings"

That doesn't sound like a tapered headset.

One question for the OP: You are the original owner of the bike, correct?

I just pulled this off the site:

This warranty does not cover:
* Normal wear and tear
* Improper assembly
* Improper follow-up maintenance
* Installation of parts or accessories not originally intended for, or compatible with, the bicycle as sold
* Damage or failure due to accident, misuse, abuse, or neglect
* Labor charges for part replacement or changeover
This warranty is void in its entirety by any modification of the frame, fork, or components.

WTF?? What does it cover? And if you change components the warranty is void? So you're stuck with Bontrager crap???

There's also a note at the bottom that you should avoid jumping and downhill riding. I love the notes that manufacturers have to put in to cover their asses. The instruction manual that came with my Komodo told me that jumping and wheelies will destroy the bike. So far it hasn't exploded, even after taking off the fork's LBDs. I may be riding on borrowed time though. Guess I better hurry up and swap that fork.

I just pulled this off the site:

This warranty does not cover:
* Normal wear and tear
* Improper assembly
* Improper follow-up maintenance
* Installation of parts or accessories not originally intended for, or compatible with, the bicycle as sold
* Damage or failure due to accident, misuse, abuse, or neglect
* Labor charges for part replacement or changeover
This warranty is void in its entirety by any modification of the frame, fork, or components.

WTF?? What does it cover? And if you change components the warranty is void? So you're stuck with Bontrager crap???

There's also a note at the bottom that you should avoid jumping and downhill riding. I love the notes that manufacturers have to put in to cover their asses. The instruction manual that came with my Komodo told me that jumping and wheelies will destroy the bike. So far it hasn't exploded, even after taking off the fork's LBDs. I may be riding on borrowed time though. Guess I better hurry up and swap that fork.

A crack is not normal wear and tear. Normal wear and tear would be such things as paint scratches. And you're over-thinking this. Of course you can change parts on the bike, but if you go and put an 80mm fork on a DH frame and things don't work out so well, Trek isn't gonna be held responsible for it.

Never been a fan of aluminum frames or even carbon for that matter. The metal is just too soft and a bend in it ? The bend to put it back is all that it takes to fatigue and weaken it to break or crack. I'm not certain what caused the metal to fatigue/crack in this case ? Was it an extreme expert trail ride ? Taking aluminum out into rocky terrain, hi-ten or even chromoly is going to have a hard enough time holding up to that without being dented or bent, stretched and whatever else. Sometimes a couple of pounds of extra weight and the right material for the job is the only way to ride. Just me, but aluminum & carbon frames are road or track conditions where the surface is virtually perfect. Yeah, I know aluminum and carbon are stronger and more rigid or whatever the puffery is, but anything experiencing the wrong angle of blunt force trauma is going to shear and break with the right amount of force applied. And in this world of costs, I just can't be convinced enough of the advantages of aluminum or carbon over steel when banging the bike around is what's most likely to occur. Even at the Wal-Mart bike level, those steel frames last forever. I really can't recall ever seeing a 15-20 year old aluminum framed Wal-Mart level bike. But the hi-ten steel ones ? Even if the rest of the bike is worn out, the frame will rust for 15-20 years and still be strong enough to put new components on and ride.

In your case, since the frame isn't being replaced, find a quality steel one, I'd repair the aluminum one (since you have the tools & expertise) and sell it on ebay or CL to recoup the cost of your new frame. That's if you final efforts to get GF/Trek to resolve this.

BTW, the warranty, after reading that, the lifetime warranty is pretty hollow based on the conditional statements and wording. I argued lifetime warranties in the bmx forum over similar wording and products. That warranty is pretty much worthless from what I read of it.

Never been a fan of aluminum frames or even carbon for that matter. The metal is just too soft and a bend in it ? The bend to put it back is all that it takes to fatigue and weaken it to break or crack. I'm not certain what caused the metal to fatigue/crack in this case ? Was it an extreme expert trail ride ? Taking aluminum out into rocky terrain, hi-ten or even chromoly is going to have a hard enough time holding up to that without being dented or bent, stretched and whatever else. Sometimes a couple of pounds of extra weight and the right material for the job is the only way to ride. Just me, but aluminum & carbon frames are road or track conditions where the surface is virtually perfect. Yeah, I know aluminum and carbon are stronger and more rigid or whatever the puffery is, but anything experiencing the wrong angle of blunt force trauma is going to shear and break with the right amount of force applied. And in this world of costs, I just can't be convinced enough of the advantages of aluminum or carbon over steel when banging the bike around is what's most likely to occur. Even at the Wal-Mart bike level, those steel frames last forever. I really can't recall ever seeing a 15-20 year old aluminum framed Wal-Mart level bike. But the hi-ten steel ones ? Even if the rest of the bike is worn out, the frame will rust for 15-20 years and still be strong enough to put new components on and ride.

I have to disagree with you on this one. While I can't speak for carbon, I have been riding the same Homegrown for over 10 years. And I am not that smooth a rider, so it has gone down quite a bit. The frame is still perfect, so I would say you can make a durable aluminum frame.

I'm a mature adult bicycling enthusiast with money to spend. Previous to reading this I would have considered Trek/Gary Fisher a reputable, top brand. This makes me want to avoid their products. Are you listening, Trek?

Just a update, I will try to catch all the questions. First off, either way this is not going to end soon, if I could get a frame the time frame is about 4 to 6 weeks I have been told told so yesterday I purchased a a new Niner frame. I called the folks at Niner and they actually answered the phone and have a # for customer service. The guys seem down to earth and I believe that they would be willing to work with me even if I had a issue due to a crash. Thats more than I can get out of GF / Trek. I got word, not from GF / Trek but thru the shop, they are handling this as a crash replacement, so they are not obligated to give me a no cost fix. They made this decision based on never looking at the bike. I also talked to 2 people, a experienced Aluminum Fabricator and a Attorney friend. The Fab guy looks at the crack and said the only way this could of been done by a crash if the force was from the seat post going backwards and in that case the seat post would have been severely bent as well. It has the original seat post and seat he put a square on the post and it is 100% true. he said in his experience this is not due to a crash but shows all the signs of a defect in that joint. The Attorney said, they have a team of lawyers who write the warranty descriptions to assure they are covered. He said the first question will be is have you ever wrecked the bike? I would have to say yes its been down a couple of times, not hard the frame has no digs or paint chip. Never the less, I can not say the bike has never been down so they can now fall back on crash replacement they also have the "Normal wear and tare" to fall back on. He said he would help my fight it, but recommended I take the money I would spend on this, fly to Colorado and get fitted for a custom Moots, because they have lawyers on staff to do nothing but fight these things and will drag this out knowing it cost me money the longer they drag things out. I may spend a 4 grand only to get a new frame out of this deal. He did suggest this, I got what I think is a fax number to GF / Trek and I also sent to the corp address a certified mail copy of detailed pictures of the crack and frame to show how little signs of crash and wear and tear are on the bike, along with a copy my receipt from the purchase ( as original owner and from a authorized GF dealer ) and a copy of the letter of response from GF/ Trek warranty.

End of the day, I have lost enough sleep and time on this, they have the upper hand and spending anymore time and money is going to be useless. The best I can do is spread the word and hope I can help someone from making the same mistake I did, or at least know going in, how GF/ Trek handles warranties. If GF/ Trek chooses to reply great, but I doubt they will. Even the GF/ Trek dealers have told me they only work they the dealers on issues like this and it is not their policy to engage the customer. They feel this is a more efficient way process claims.

I will have my new Niner built today and have it on the trails Saturday am.

I have to disagree with you on this one. While I can't speak for carbon, I have been riding the same Homegrown for over 10 years. And I am not that smooth a rider, so it has gone down quite a bit. The frame is still perfect, so I would say you can make a durable aluminum frame.

I don't know what there is to disagree upon, aluminum is a softer metal than hi-ten or chromoly. And carbon, the medium it's placed in, that's basically like laminated fiberglass plastic. Ride what you want, but under harsher tests, steel holds up better. I'm not arguing that aluminum or carbon won't hold up and ride for years, but neither will take the punishment steel will. And even steel can be abused to a point of failure. But if the frame strikes a granite rock at the same angle and force, which would I prefer/bet on a $ 1,000+ bike frame to survive ? I'll put up with a few pounds more of bike and keep riding a steel frame. On a road bike it might matter, an atb/mtb, I'm not setting land speed records or racing anyone.

http://xnet3.uss.com/auto/steelvsal/basicfacts.htm


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nvk63bmVpck

Cool, you're back riding again, but understand you simply went from GF/Trek to Niner:

http://www.ninerbikes.com/
http://www.ninerbikes.com/downloads/Niner%20Bikes%20Jet%209%20Frame%20Recall.pdf

FWIW, the recalled frames are made from aluminum too.

fuji - There's no arguing the facts, which you seem to have, but you seem to forget that not everyone rides the same way. For someone who only rides recreational or moderately technical XC (like myself), a few extra lbs on the frame wouldn't be worth it at all. The reason you rarely see 20-year-old aluminum frames is because you rarely saw new aluminum frames 20 years ago. They were almost all steel. So you really can't use that as an argument--I'm sure the frame I'm building up now will withstand 20 years of the kind of riding I'll be doing.

To put it in perspective, that's like saying "Oh the Chevy Cobalt is a **** car compared to a good ol' K5 Blazer! You know how I know? Because I see 20-year-old K5's all the time! Where are the 20-year-old Cobalt's, huh?"

And to the OP, sad to hear you got shut down by the man. But it's good to hear you'll be riding soon & with a much nicer frame.

Forget that noise, take the frame , the warranty, the expert witnesses notarized opinion and go to small claims court for the cost of a replacement frame. Worst case scenario is your out $60-80.

On a road bike it might matter, an atb/mtb, I'm not setting land speed records or racing anyone.

Yes, but other people are. Furthermore, the empirical evidence you offer regarding the durability and longevity of your steel (hi-ten no less) bike should be taken with the grain of salt that you also think jumping causes arthritis, so I seriously doubt you're subjecting your bike to anywhere near the loads that others are. You also seem to be oblivious to the fact that engineers understand the advantages and limitations of different types of materials and design and build their products with those in mind.

Cool, you're back riding again, but understand you simply went from GF/Trek to Niner:

http://www.ninerbikes.com/
http://www.ninerbikes.com/downloads/Niner%20Bikes%20Jet%209%20Frame%20Recall.pdf

FWIW, the recalled frames are made from aluminum too.

True, but I don't think I could be any worse off then going with GF / Trek again. Problems happen, its how the company responds is my issue. At least Niner, I could get someone on the phone which is more than I can say for GF / Trek. Admitted the niner is a fix, I am looking at spending the money and getting a nice custom frame made, but the lead time I have been quoted is 6 to12 months so I need something until then.

Forget that noise, take the frame , the warranty, the expert witnesses notarized opinion and go to small claims court for the cost of a replacement frame. Worst case scenario is your out $60-80.

not a bad idea

Fuji, there are different grades of steel, and some of the weaker steels make for weaker frames. Ask any BMX guy who's destroyed a Hi-Ten frame.

The construction of the bike itself is more important than the material used to construct the bike. A steel cx bike can be destroyed more easily than an aluminum DH bike.

That video uses random tests that abuse the bike in ways that it's not meant to be abused. Do you normally step on the stays with no wheel in there? How about take a saw to the bike? Probably not, and I doubt the bike will see that kind of abuse out on the trail either.

Steel may be a stronger metal than aluminum. I won't argue that. But aluminum frames aren't weak. Ride what you want, but don't discourage people from buying aluminum bikes based on the idea that it's weak.

fuji - There's no arguing the facts, which you seem to have, but you seem to forget that not everyone rides the same way. For someone who only rides recreational or moderately technical XC (like myself), a few extra lbs on the frame wouldn't be worth it at all. The reason you rarely see 20-year-old aluminum frames is because you rarely saw new aluminum frames 20 years ago. They were almost all steel. So you really can't use that as an argument--I'm sure the frame I'm building up now will withstand 20 years of the kind of riding I'll be doing.

To put it in perspective, that's like saying "Oh the Chevy Cobalt is a **** car compared to a good ol' K5 Blazer! You know how I know? Because I see 20-year-old K5's all the time! Where are the 20-year-old Cobalt's, huh?"

And to the OP, sad to hear you got shut down by the man. But it's good to hear you'll be riding soon & with a much nicer frame.

Thanks SB, thats it I will be back out with my buddies Saturday and thats what its all about!

I read your update and it really sucks that Trek is treating you like this. All these years I heard about how great they are with their warranties, and I even had to file a warranty claim a couple years ago due to problems with a set of wheels. Trek was quick to replace the wheels and all was well. But now, if they keep this up, they will quickly destroy their reputation.

I might have missed it somewhere but is this a Trek issue or is a local bike shop issue? If they have not even seen the bike and they are only offering a crash replacement deal I'm wondering if they have even contacted Trek about having the frame warranteed. They may just be wanting to sell you a bike and make a few bucks, even if they are giving you 25% off retail.

I would make the trip to another Trek dealer and see how they treat it. If they say they can only handle it as a crash replacement you might be screwed, but until then I wouldn't throw all the blame on Trek.