Commuting - so many bikes, but none in america

My Girlfreind went to China a few weeks back, and she took pictures. In just about every frame, there are chinese folks biking. Just everywhere. Even at the Great Wall there were bicyclists, she said. And when ever I go overseas, I see bikes everywhere. And the bikes I see aren't these 300 dollar mountain bikes. They're these really cool bikes with character. You know, fenders, racks, nifty seats, moustache handlebars and the rest. So we have to get really abjectly poor before bikes become common place, or what?
In my area, you can stand on a street corner for an hour and see maybe 20 bikes. And this is Hawaii, where biking is so easy it's not funny.

We're a car culture. Plain and simple.

I went to Japan a few months ago and noticed the same thing especially in Kyoto which is relatively flat. They even had secure "car" parks for bikes. I also saw one bike in Tokyo with a parking ticket.

Even though I saw thousands of bikes none of them were top-end and a lot of them were folding bikes.

Well, I just came back from a trip to Montreal, Quebec City and surroundings, boy! canadians ride their bikes almost everywhere, even saw more bike activity around New Hampshire and Vermont than in this part of the tri-state area. I was impressed, next time I travel up there I'll take my bike with me.
The tri-state area sucks!
Corsaire

To an American, only a fool would walk or bike when he could drive. :(

I work with a Dutch guy who lives in the Netherlands. I asked him if he rides a bike and he said "Of course" like I asked him if he drinks a beer at the end of a long hard day.

The Dutch have cute bikes, too.

And this is Hawaii, where biking is so easy it's not funny.


There is a guy from there over on the About.com bike forum. He rides at 3 am to avoid traffic, he says it's bad there. I can't remember what island he is on though.

To an American, only a fool would walk or bike when he could drive.Word.

In Victoria B.C Canada, I see a 50- 100 bikes a day commute daily, I am not riding rush hour..

B.maybe...70.
lots, bikers are very present.

yep, we as a culture are not very bike receptive. It starts with how we get around. We grow up with parents driving us cause "its not safe to ride your bike to timmys house", and teh school bus picks up up every morning...then it's we get a ride ro school in roy's msutang in exchange for cigarette money, and we borrow the parents car to go shopping and such.

It's just so common it grows onto us. now, if the parents tuaght us safe biking, and biked over to pick us up...that could have instilled a healthier lifestyle. Also if the parents viewed the car as a tool and not a way of life, that would help as well.

Givendriving is fun, but we all have some degree of sense in us :)

Now, I would love to see more commuter syle bikes. See dyno and speed hubs become common, fenders, decent racks, and so on. Bikes here are more about sport than anyhing else, and that's slightly sad.

My Trek is on it's way to being a commuter. I might place fenders on it, but I dunno, however it is going to get a nice rack, and a nice extension cord for the headlamp battery to place it in a bag on the rack as well (i hate frame mount components). I'm also thinking of going to a 10sp rear and single ring front so i can use a chainguard. Could be an interesting project if it all fits my old frame that is. Moustache bars are also on my consideration list, but i',m starting to love dropbars.

@ rear T2 is= 4T front chainring, 1 tooth rear is 2 front.
I'm gonna go 38F- 10-30*rear.

I keep wondering... what the hell are fenders for?

? I keep wondering... what the hell are fenders for?

Weight?....go ride to GF house in the rain. you gotta strip down right?

Get wet...or moist @ least.

fenders are great when you dont have to worry about road grime as much.

It's not rain as much as the crap that your tires will kick up.

In Victoria B.C Canada, I see a 50- 100 bikes a day commute daily, I am not riding rush hour..

B.maybe...70.
lots, bikers are very present.

I think the PNW is fairly cycling-rich compared to the rest of the country. If I were to stand on a street corner in Seattle for an hour, I'll bet you I could easily count several hundred cyclists/commuters go by.

I keep wondering... what the hell are fenders for?

both times i've seen you ask this question i've thought about the old joke, "what's a butfor?"

both times i've seen you ask this question i've thought about the old joke, "what's a butfor?"

Excretion.

We grow up with parents driving us cause "its not safe to ride your bike to timmys house", and teh school bus picks up up every morning...

It's worse than that. Around here (SE MI) anyway, the schools will not allow children to walk or cycle to school if it means crossing a street that doesn't have a light. A friend of mine made her son (age 12) walk to school (about 3/4 mile) when he missed the bus due to his throwing a tantrum over something. She got calls from the teacher, principal, and superintendant of schools (three separate calls) informing her that she was NOT to do that again, or they'd call the county.

How the HELL are we supposed to teach our kids to be environmentally responsible, and also to get exercise and not be the nation of couch potatoes, when we're being forced to drive them anywhere over 100 feet? Pretty soon you'll be required to provide a motorized cart to get to the bathroom, and elevators to go upstairs. "Upstairs" itself will probably become an unused term.

"Now, I would love to see more commuter syle bikes. See dyno and speed hubs become common, fenders, decent racks, and so on. Bikes here are more about sport than anyhing else, and that's slightly sad."

The type of bike you describe are in a few shops, and more are on the way. I agree with your viewpoint that sport takes precedence over practicality.
Here in Grand Rapids, there's almost a sense of pity for people who choose not drive. The prevailing prejudices are:
1. Bikes are children's toys.
2. Only poor people take the bus!
This city is immersed in an "I got mine, now you get yours" mentality.

At least once a week, I hear someone yell "Get on the sidewalk" - how self absorbed is it that!! Hate to slow up someone for the thirty seconds while they pass me up.

I feel I have to add my 2¢ to this thread. In many cities that developed/grew after WWII, the sprawl has reached so far out that it would not be practical for most people to bike. A culture has evolved around having personal transportation capable of traveling 50 to 70 miles in less than an hour (I know that doesn't happen often in rush hour). People make choices (conscious or not) about where they live and the type of transportation they have to use. In this suburban wilderness, I do not see an easy solution to reducing the dependence on powered vehicles. The density is too low to support public transportation.

In older cities, where the density is higher and the distances needed to travel are shorter, bicycles are an excellent transportation solution. That is one reason (among many) why European, Asian, and older N. American cities have higher bicycle use.

As fuel costs continue to rise, maybe more people will make an informed choice to live where cycling to work/school/errands is practical. Until then, I don’t see many people changing their mode of travel.

It's so sad what we're doing to kids these days by driving them around, or not even letting them get to school independently. I heard that this college freshman class is more obedient than ever before, having had their entire lives planned and managed for them.

When I was a little girl of 5 years old I remember roaming the neighborhood, playing in the streets and parks with no adult supervision. I walked or rode a bike to school all the years I went. Riding a bike was freedom. I went everywhere.

No wonder so many little kids are huge. When I was a kid we had one fat kid in school who was teased mercilessly. Now at least a quarter of the kids I see are fatter than that poor kid. Heck, I was teased for being fat, too, but I'm skinnier than most American women these days.

Cars are killing our planet and killing us. I understand it is not possible for everyone to avoid driving to work, but we gotta do something to allow our kids to grow up independently mobile.

Cars are killing our planet and killing us.Let's not get carried away. It sucks that many Americans don't share the bliss and freedom that bikes afford us, but that doesn't mean the sun is going to explode tomorrow.

It's worse than that. Around here (SE MI) anyway, the schools will not allow children to walk or cycle to school if it means crossing a street that doesn't have a light. A friend of mine made her son (age 12) walk to school (about 3/4 mile) when he missed the bus due to his throwing a tantrum over something. She got calls from the teacher, principal, and superintendant of schools (three separate calls) informing her that she was NOT to do that again, or they'd call the county.

How the HELL are we supposed to teach our kids to be environmentally responsible, and also to get exercise and not be the nation of couch potatoes, when we're being forced to drive them anywhere over 100 feet? Pretty soon you'll be required to provide a motorized cart to get to the bathroom, and elevators to go upstairs. "Upstairs" itself will probably become an unused term.


Simple, raise a massive stink over the schools trying to butt into things that arent their matter. Schools have no right to dictate how the kid gets there, so long as it's within the law (sorry no tieing the kid up to the back bumper and dragging him the whole 5 miles...I know it's tempting... :p ).

I was making my way to school on my own since I was 6. No problems whatsoever, except the nuns scared me....evil evil old ruler-wielding habit-wearing hellspawn they are :(

The lack of more use of bicycles in America is due to........

A nation used to cheap gasoline to fuel oversized cars.

A decided lack of any nationwide mass transit system.

A lack of any state or national road plans that are bike friendly.

A move of the workforce to suburbia away from central farm & city work.

A culture that thinks of bikes as "toys' for children and not
as a useful means of individual transportation.

In general the rest of the world can't afford ,nor do they
need, cars in the numbers that Americans are now forced to
buy by the changes in our country since WWII that saw our
rail and cities decline.

I feel I have to add my 2¢ to this thread. In many cities that developed/grew after WWII, the sprawl has reached so far out that it would not be practical for most people to bike. A culture has evolved around having personal transportation capable of traveling 50 to 70 miles in less than an hour (I know that doesn't happen often in rush hour). People make choices (conscious or not) about where they live and the type of transportation they have to use. In this suburban wilderness, I do not see an easy solution to reducing the dependence on powered vehicles. The density is too low to support public transportation.

One thing I've learned about myself is that I'm much happier if I spend less time in the car. Particularly if that time is going to/from work. When I had a crappy commute, I was cranky all the time. Now that My commute is short & low-traffic, I'm much more pleasant. If I'd buck up & commute via bicycle, who knows how positively I could impact the world! :)

The lack of more use of bicycles in America is due to........

A nation used to cheap gasoline to fuel oversized cars.

A decided lack of any nationwide mass transit system.

A lack of any state or national road plans that are bike friendly.

A move of the workforce to suburbia away from central farm & city work.

A culture that thinks of bikes as "toys' for children and not
as a useful means of individual transportation.

In general the rest of the world can't afford ,nor do they
need, cars in the numbers that Americans are now forced to
buy by the changes in our country since WWII that saw our
rail and cities decline.


I want to add the following

A lack of Americans that refuse to move to locations that have excellent public transportation


I was having a discussion on another forum about this same topic. It appears that folks in Tampa have horrible girdlock and little mass transit. My opinion was simple. MOVE!

It's like these folks in Tampa were chained to their homes. If you live in an area that has little or no public transportation, you have no one to blame but yourself. It's understood that moving to the burbs requires a good income to afford two or more cars for your family. It's also understood that you will need to drive everywhere even to get a newspaper. It's also understood that you will not have mass transit at your disposal so you should look forward to gridlock.

khuon, I have to agree. For an American city, and a rainy one at that, Seattle has a large population of bicycle commuters. My route through West Seattle, across the West Seattle bridge, and into down town has a steady stream of cyclists from before dawn and into night.

I feel I have to add my 2¢ to this thread. In many cities that developed/grew after WWII, the sprawl has reached so far out that it would not be practical for most people to bike.

Question: Who says you must live in these new cities developed afer WWII?

Seriously, I find people make their own misery by moving out to the middle of nowhere. We don't have to live waaaaay out there to be considered successful. There is nothing out there and all the activity is within 10 miles of the city.

The sprawl never reached me because I never wanted to live there in the first place.

87 octane gas has hit $2.50 in this area. Maybe we'll see a change in the near future.

Question: Who says you must live in these new cities developed afer WWII?

Seriously, I find people make their own misery by moving out to the middle of nowhere. We don't have to live waaaaay out there to be considered successful. There is nothing out there and all the activity is within 10 miles of the city.

The sprawl never reached me because I never wanted to live there in the first place.


Well said. I don't live in a big city with great transit. I live in a small city. But I live in the city. And as a result I can use my bicycle for almost all my transportation needs. The counties surrounding us are little but cruddy auto-dependent sprawl. And even though it's on a relatively small scale it's eating up farmland and destroying Parkway views. When my fellow environmentalists bemoan that fact I ask them where they live. If it's waaaay out there in a suburban pod in the county I politely suggest that they pack up, join me in the city, and buy a bicycle.

People talk about the post-war car addiction, and than any city founded then will suffer from it.
But in China, many of the cities were built only quite recently, Europe was all but a bomb crater after the war, and Canada is younger than the U.S.

People talk about the post-war car addiction, and than any city founded then will suffer from it.
But in China, many of the cities were built only quite recently, Europe was all but a bomb crater after the war, and Canada is younger than the U.S.

Post war car addiction was THE economic engine that drove
prosperity in America after WWII which in turn drove the
move to suburbia. Cheap fuel was also necessary to drive the
move to suburbia so people could get to jobs that were being
created in industrial parks and open farm land.

If you study China today you will find that the Chinese are
moving AWAY from a farm based economy to an industrial
economy just as America did after WWII. This growth is fueling
the demand for all sorts of consumer good especially the demand
for cars. Yep, the Chinese workers are moving FROM bicycles
to cars as fast as they an make the money to buy one. Just
like the returning WWII soldiers bought cars as soon as they
were able to!!

So for a country that moved on bicycles China is fast becoming
a carbon copy of America with surburbia and cars. This car
growth is also fueling the demand for oil in China to feed
it's growing industry and the sharp growth in the car ownership.
This increased oil demand is also causing sharp compeition
for available oil suppies thus driving up per barrel oil prices.

America no longer is THE primary market for oil.

But in China, many of the cities were built only quite recently, ...Yeah, China is only 50 years old ;)


America no longer is THE primary market for oil.Long time coming - 25% vs 10% as of now. But you're right, people are buying cars in droves. Just look at the comments from F1 racers recently - 2 hours just to get back to their hotels from the circuit!

It's bad. China is going the wrong way :(

Post war car addiction was THE economic engine that drove
prosperity in America after WWII which in turn drove the
move to suburbia. Cheap fuel was also necessary to drive the
move to suburbia so people could get to jobs that were being
created in industrial parks and open farm land.

If you study China today you will find that the Chinese are
moving AWAY from a farm based economy to an industrial
economy just as America did after WWII. This growth is fueling
the demand for all sorts of consumer good especially the demand
for cars. Yep, the Chinese workers are moving FROM bicycles
to cars as fast as they an make the money to buy one. Just
like the returning WWII soldiers bought cars as soon as they
were able to!!

So for a country that moved on bicycles China is fast becoming
a carbon copy of America with surburbia and cars. This car
growth is also fueling the demand for oil in China to feed
it's growing industry and the sharp growth in the car ownership.
This increased oil demand is also causing sharp compeition
for available oil suppies thus driving up per barrel oil prices.

America no longer is THE primary market for oil.

Well said.

I still believe we could continued the industrial revolution WITHOUT the destruction of our national rail infrastructure which would have kept many cities from being totally auto dependant. Today, we are rebuilding our railroads (Commuter rail, light rail, subway) at the cost of billions of dollars per ever 100 miles.

It's bad. China is going the wrong way :(

"60% of adult Beijingers are overweight" (http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/english/doc/2004-10/12/content_381760.htm)

They are catching up quickly.

Cars are killing our planet and killing us. I understand it is not possible for everyone to avoid driving to work, but we gotta do something to allow our kids to grow up independently mobile.

Cars don't kill people. People kill people.
By themselves, cars aren't that bad of a deal, it's getting people to use them responsibly that's a problem.

and Canada is younger than the U.S.

Canadian cities suffer from the same problem as american cities. There's just less people here so the problem doesn't seem as bad. Montreal is fairly old for a north american city and it IS more compact. And Montreal is where the most people walk to work in North America, so how a city is laid out must have an impact on how people commute.

"I still believe we could continued the industrial revolution WITHOUT the destruction of our national rail
infrastructure which would have kept many cities from being totally auto dependant. Today, we are rebuilding
our railroads (Commuter rail, light rail, subway) at the cost of billions of dollars per ever 100 miles.'

True to a point. The move away from rail was caused by several
factors that were special to America. The leaders of the time
had just completed WWII and had learned that to depend on
rail was not in the nations interest.....at the time. These
same leaders also knew that they had to create millions of
jobs for the returning soldiers so the interstate hiway
program was born.

Now you can't have a massive new hiway program without any
thing to drive on it can you?? Thus began the move to mass
transit of goods over these new wonder roads. The ripple
effect caused by these super hiways feed into all parts of
American life by making the move to suburbia insanely easy.

There is also the fact that Rail in America,at the time, was
due for a revamp that never came. Problems covered the spectrum
from labor issues to infrastructure concerns. The investment
money needed was being drained by the move to the hiway system
leaving rail to flounder. Europe, on the other hand, NEEDED
mass cheap transit to rebuild leveled countries and that
no one in post war Europe could afford cars or the fuel for
them.

So, at the time, America went one way and the rest of the world
the other. It turns out that those countries that have a good
mass transit/rail system are now ahead of the game.

Well, I just came back from a trip to Montreal, Quebec City and surroundings, boy! canadians ride their bikes almost everywhere, even saw more bike activity around New Hampshire and Vermont than in this part of the tri-state area. I was impressed, next time I travel up there I'll take my bike with me.
The tri-state area sucks!
Corsaire

Be careful, it ain't like that around southern Ontario.

Well said.

I still believe we could continued the industrial revolution WITHOUT the destruction of our national rail infrastructure which would have kept many cities from being totally auto dependant. Today, we are rebuilding our railroads (Commuter rail, light rail, subway) at the cost of billions of dollars per ever 100 miles.

There's absolutely no doubt that we could have built an industrial economy without auto dependence. After WWII we should have continued building towns and cities as we had been doing so well since at least the city Beautiful movement of the 1880's. Instead we decided to sink our national wealth into building roads and suburbs, creating a way of life built on debt and cheap oil which, as James Howard Kunstler says so well, has no future.

The #1 reason middle class America doesn't ride bikes or take public transportation is that generally, we hate to rub elbows with anyone out of our social class.

The bus is always full of the Great Unwashed. The homeless, the crazy, folks from other countries who eat spicy foods and smell funky to white bread noses. Who wants to ride the bus with Welfare momma and her 3 brat kids?

Riding a bike makes you part of the city-- the pot holes, weather, stupid drivers. Who here hasn't had some ******* yell something at them while riding a bike? I hear "Get on the Sidewalk!" at least every week. Take a big SUV, radio and cell phone and you can insulate yourself from this stuff.

And that 3,000 sq ft house in burbs with the garage out front? More insulation. Big screen TV? Gated community? The list is endless.

The real danger is that all the "insulation" has made us weak. We're fat, unhealthy, depressed, addicted to booze and food and prescription dope. We shelter our childern to the point that they have no skills for solving problems becuase we worry about them getting kidnapped or hit by a car or God-knows-what.

I won't lie... I sometimes don't want to ride my bike home in the rain and the losers on the bus get on my nerves sometimes. But there are mornings where I feel so completely happy riding along and I often feel a kind of kinship with other riders on the bus. I love to watch the city wake up in the morning--- the newpaper people, the bread guys, Asian shop owners sweeping the sidewalk, the Mexican seafood processors smoking the laughing before work as I ride by.

Then again some rednecks hit me with a truck last winter and I'll have those scars on my face for the rest of my life (the're not really all that bad, but it still pisses me off)

A life well lived needs some commitment and risk. Cycling provides both.

Tacomee makes a valid point, and it doesn't just apply to the US (although Australia is basically state #51 these days anyhow). Middle class society does it's best to force it's values down the throat of everyone else in sight. I even heard a politician in the lead-up to our election trying to talk down his wealth in an attempt to win votes.

This is always why the great unwashed will never take up bicycle commuting unless the other options simply become too difficult -- that will never happen in this age of government by opinion poll, where governments are all to easy to step in and soften the blow of pretty much anything that upsets the great unwashed.

In the meantime, those of us who do live the car free lifestyle know the savings we can make, we know we can afford the nice apartment, and the holidays and all the rest of the things we'd have to give up if we had a car. We know the joys of riding effortlessly through the gridlock, watching all the car commuters who are just as stuck in debt as they are stuck in traffic. If the existing advantages aren't enough to convert people -- nothing will. Ever.

We're a car culture. Plain and simple.

We're a lazy culture, plain and simple. (I think if everyone else was this rich they'd be just as lazy too)

It's worse than that. Around here (SE MI) anyway, the schools will not allow children to walk or cycle to school if it means crossing a street that doesn't have a light.

I had this situation in grade school back about 1980. I lived 3 blocks from school, but I had to wait 20 minutes every morning for
a school bus to pick me up just 2 blocks from the school and ride a half-hour-plus on the route before finally arriving at the school. Same thing going the other way in the afternoon. Why? Lawyers, lawsuits and liability.

And this is Hawaii, where biking is so easy it's not funny.

IMO, Hawaii has horrible biking conditions. Steamy, sticky, nasty air, frequent daily rains and everything is up and down long slopes. Anywhere I go on a bike I know I'll arrive soaked and sweating buckets for the next half hour. I got lucky to have a shower at work or I wouldn't be able to do it. I take 3 or 4 showers a day. Not only that, but the roads here are narrow and dangerous, lots of idiot kids drive monster trucks and ricers, and very few other people bike or even walk anywhere. People like their air conditioned cars here.

I'm not sure what's supposed to be appealing about the clunky European/Asian old-fashioned style of grocery getter bike, myself.

The #1 reason middle class America doesn't ride bikes or take public transportation is that generally, we hate to rub elbows with anyone out of our social class.

In general, I agree with your high-level points but I don't necessarily agree with your specifics because they are gross generalisations. I don't think they apply everywhere. I recall reading in another post of yours that you live in Seattle. As such, you must realise that all sorts of individuals ride bikes and commute by bus. Yes, there still is quite the car-culture mentality but there is also a much higher mix of individuals using alternative transportation. Look at how it's sometimes hard to use the bike racks on the busses because they're full. Sometimes you have to wait for three or more busses to go by before you can find space. Stand by the ferry docks as one unloads and watch the flood of cyclists heading off the front. Stand around a street corner during the commuting hours (or any hour of the day really) and count the number of cyclists. Observe the mix in types of riders. You'll see everything from the homeless to the guys on the TiCycles racers. The whole spectrum of society is pretty well represented. I do get your point though but I think the acceptance level varies quite a bit from region to region.

BTW, I am one of those living in the 3000+ sq. ft. houses on the eastside however, I don't feel insulated but quite the opposite. I am fairly well surrounded by woods. There are MTB trails literally spitting distance from my backyard and the trailhead is less than 100ft from my driveway. I have plenty of nice country roads to ride on and getting into the city for some urban riding is never a problem. My commute could not be done by bike... I have to hop a plane for a minimum hour and a half flight for my normal commute... something I do once a week. I do like the city and have lived in it. I used to live in places where there was a distinct difference between the city and the surrounding suburbia but to me, the Seattle area has less of that. Getting in and out of the city by car or bike has never been a big deal and their doesn't seem as stark a difference (especially when biking) between the urban vs. suburban environment here.

Look at how it's sometimes hard to use the bike racks on the busses because they're full. Sometimes you have to wait for three or more busses to go by before you can find space.

Everywhere I've lived a bus bike rack only carries 2 bikes, which is rather pathetic for a bus holding 30-60 people. Is it different there?

Everywhere I've lived a bus bike rack only carries 2 bikes, which is rather pathetic for a bus holding 30-60 people. Is it different there?

Most of the busses only have two spots. But still, the fact that there's a line of riders and that the inside is so full that the driver won't allow bikes inside (if the bus is sparsely populated, the driver will sometimes allow people to carry their bikes inside... especially on the larger busses) the bus speaks to the fact that cycling is quite popular here. I understand that newer buses are starting to get more bike carrying capacity with three and four bike carriers.

khuon,

Seattle is very different from most of the USA-- there has to be 10X the number of bikers here in the NW than other parts of the country. NYC is another bike Mecca, and N. Cal. is right up there (I'm in Tacoma by the way. It's a better bike town than Seattle with only a small fraction of the riders)

There is plenty of suburbs in both King and Pierce counties that I am scared to ride to because of super crowded roads with no shoulder, coupled with crazed drivers pissed off about their own stupid %&&(@*)#$ choice of a 45 min commute. I used to ride from Eastgate to downtown Bellevue-- crazy soccer moms scared the crap out of me daily.