Bicycle Mechanics - Rock N Roll Extreme lube in cold weather

I used RnR Extreme 12 years ago, but haven't used it again until now. Kept the bottle indoors so it wouldn't freeze or anything. Pulled out the MTB this afternoon, put it in the stand, and proceeded to lube the chain as per the instructions.

The stuff gunked up almost immediately. Shook the bottle some more, but no real change. Checked the thermometer, and it said 43f. I know that's pretty cold compared to, say, So Cal, but really? The stuff was the consistency of uncooked spaghetti sauce. The label says not to store it below 40f, but when I applied it, I was getting chainsuck and spotty shifting in the stand.

Has anyone had positive results using this in temps below 50f?

We use that a lot at the co-op, which sets up outside on Saturdays, in an alley behind a coffee shop. A few weeks ago on a cold afternoon I went to lube a chain and the stuff was basically solid. It was probably in the high 30s.

Since that was my only lube option, I went inside and ran it under warm water for a little while to get it flowing again. It seemed to work fine once it was on the chain, but I didn't do too much to test it out.

I'm sure people with more opinions on chain lube will weigh in. This is the third thread I've looked at today about chain lube. Maybe I need something better to do at work.

I had problems with rust developing right away after a rain on a chain treated with Rock N Roll Extreme. I won't put that stuff on my own bike. I look though for possible bikes on which I could use up my stock:twitchy:.

I had problems with rust developing right away after a rain on a chain treated with

Yeah, that clearly had nothing to do with the lube being washed away right?

I used RnR Extreme 12 years ago, but haven't used it again until now. Kept the bottle indoors so it wouldn't freeze or anything. Pulled out the MTB this afternoon, put it in the stand, and proceeded to lube the chain as per the instructions.

The stuff gunked up almost immediately. Shook the bottle some more, but no real change. Checked the thermometer, and it said 43f. I know that's pretty cold compared to, say, So Cal, but really? The stuff was the consistency of uncooked spaghetti sauce. The label says not to store it below 40f, but when I applied it, I was getting chainsuck and spotty shifting in the stand.

Has anyone had positive results using this in temps below 50f?

Call rock n roll: 208-672-0911

Mobil 1 0W-20 motor oil. A quart will last a lifetime, unless you're really "Monk"-ish about your chain. (in which case, you're probably using ProGold, anyway...)

Many lubes including mine can't be applied below certain temps, though some, like mine, work fine in the cold. Warming the lube won't necessarily help, unless the chain is warmed also. Otherwise the minute the warm lube hits the cold chain it cools and stops flowing.

Rock and Roll Extreme is all that we use in the winter. Never have stored it out side just in the unheated basement. I have not had a problem in applying it.

I ride it in all weather conditions from summer heat to sub zero on bikes from mtb to commuters to road bikes. and have never had the problem you are describing. Also I have not had the rust problem that another poster has talked about. If you are going to ride in the rain dry your cahin and rre lube when you aare done.

I have a bottle of Chain-l a friend who owns a shop gave me to try but I have been so pleased with Rand R that I haven't used it yet

My guess is that in the 12 years the RnR sat on your shelf, the solvents evaporated out of it, leaving the heavy oil.

The solvents in chain oil thin it out and make it spread and penetrate between the plates of the chain. After application, the solvents evaporate, leaving a thin film of the heavy oil to protect against rust and provide lubrication.

"Dry" lubes are mostly solvent and leave less oil so gather less dust. "Wet" lubes are mostly oil and really protect against rust but it collects dust and grit. "Wet" lube on chains needs to be cleaned more often.

I'd throw out the old RnR, or try thinning it with mineral spirits.

My guess is that in the 12 years the RnR sat on your shelf, the solvents evaporated out of it, leaving the heavy oil.

The solvents in chain oil thin it out and make it spread and penetrate between the plates of the chain. After application, the solvents evaporate, leaving a thin film of the heavy oil to protect against rust and provide lubrication.

"Dry" lubes are mostly solvent and leave less oil so gather less dust. "Wet" lubes are mostly oil and really protect against rust but it collects dust and grit. "Wet" lube on chains needs to be cleaned more often.

I'd throw out the old RnR, or try thinning it with mineral spirits.

This was a brand-new bottle. It's been stored indoors, and never below 55f until I took it outside to apply it.

My guess is that in the 12 years the RnR sat on your shelf, the solvents evaporated out of it, leaving the heavy oil.

The solvents in chain oil thin it out and make it spread and penetrate between the plates of the chain. After application, the solvents evaporate, leaving a thin film of the heavy oil to protect against rust and provide lubrication.

"Dry" lubes are mostly solvent and leave less oil so gather less dust. "Wet" lubes are mostly oil and really protect against rust but it collects dust and grit. "Wet" lube on chains needs to be cleaned more often.

I'd throw out the old RnR, or try thinning it with mineral spirits.

While it's fine reason from the specific and posit generalities, the process doesn't work the other way around. Rock n Roll is a fine product, it's vehicle will freeze, or gel or solidify. (not actually the same, but the effect is the same) That doesn't mean it won't work in the cold, just that you can't apply it.

BTW- your general assumptions of wet vs dry lubes are equally off base.

I'm going to save the RnR for spring/summer. For now I'm sticking with either Boeshield or Dumonde Tech.

I'm going to save the RnR for spring/summer. For now I'm sticking with either Boeshield or Dumonde Tech.

I am using a mixture of Boeshield, LPS 3 and ACF-50. The advantage is that I can apply on the average just every few months. The chain does not rust no matter whether there is rain or snow with bike spending most of the days outside. If I were to dry the chain and relube after every rain, I would be going berserk. I am supposed to leave work because it has just rained?! Maybe I had no time to notice that it rained. Statements of that type may be made by people who use bikes for occasional maybe ceremonial purposes.

On my scale, Rock'n Roll belongs to the category of junk, but then most lubes on the market are at least in the area of snake oil for me. I've been through tons of lubes and have tested variety of snake-oil advices. Finally, out of frustration, I started experimenting, writing down quantitative observations and trying to understand them. In this fashion, I arrived at the mixture.

maybe the oil has oxidized.

similar to oil paints or grease drying out.
Such is the life of consumable products.
You can't really do anything to revive it.

http://www.midtownoil.com/downloads/What%20Is%20Oxidation%20In%20Lubricating%20Oil.pdf

Homebrew:

1 part semi synthetic oil / 3 parts mineral spirits.

Flows pretty quickly when it is at room temp but flows well at extremely cold temperatures and offers great protection in winter and in any wet climate.

I used RnR Extreme 12 years ago, but haven't used it again until now. Kept the bottle indoors so it wouldn't freeze or anything. Pulled out the MTB this afternoon, put it in the stand, and proceeded to lube the chain as per the instructions.

The stuff gunked up almost immediately. Shook the bottle some more, but no real change. Checked the thermometer, and it said 43f. I know that's pretty cold compared to, say, So Cal, but really? The stuff was the consistency of uncooked spaghetti sauce. The label says not to store it below 40f, but when I applied it, I was getting chainsuck and spotty shifting in the stand.

Has anyone had positive results using this in temps below 50f?

Lubricants like Rock N Roll are based around a saturated solution. Saturated solutions are highly dependent on temperature in how they react to the world. When you place the solution on a cold chain, the material precipitates out. This is quite normal. Heating the bottle with a little warm water can help or bringing the bike into a warmer environment for a while will do the trick. Even standing the bike outside in the sun should warm it enough to get the lubricant flowing.

I'd not follow the advice of those who suggest synthetic oil and mineral spirits...especially for here in Colorado this particular winter. As dry as it is now, the oil will only act as a dirt magnet. We don't need to protect against water here...particularly this year. Dirt and grit are the enemy here.

I'd not follow the advice of those who suggest synthetic oil and mineral spirits...especially for here in Colorado this particular winter. As dry as it is now, the oil will only act as a dirt magnet. We don't need to protect against water here...particularly this year. Dirt and grit are the enemy here.

The biggest problem I see with people is that that they over lubricate their chains and don't wipe them down completely... the homebrew lube that I, and many other people have taken to using, is a very clean running lube when you do it correctly.

The solvent acts as a carrier for the oil and when it evaporates you are left with oil where it is needed (inside your chain)... it also disperses moisture. Wipe the chain until there is no residue left on the outside and you will find that you have a smooth running and well protected chain that does not attract dirt.

I have been using this in the wet and the dry and find it superior to many off the shelf lubricants as far as performance and resistance to dirt goes as it just isn't that sticky and does a good job of cleaning and lubricating when it is applied.

And it costs 1/10 of commercially prepared lubes which are also... a blend of oil and solvent.

If you ride where it is really dusty and dry I'd use a wax based lube for most of us don't live in the desert and see mixed riding conditions.

The biggest problem I see with people is that that they over lubricate their chains and don't wipe them down completely... the homebrew lube that I, and many other people have taken to using, is a very clean running lube when you do it correctly.

The solvent acts as a carrier for the oil and when it evaporates you are left with oil where it is needed (inside your chain)... it also disperses moisture. Wipe the chain until there is no residue left on the outside and you will find that you have a smooth running and well protected chain that does not attract dirt.

I have been using this in the wet and the dry and find it superior to many off the shelf lubricants as far as performance and resistance to dirt goes as it just isn't that sticky and does a good job of cleaning and lubricating when it is applied.

And it costs 1/10 of commercially prepared lubes which are also... a blend of oil and solvent.

If you ride where it is really dusty and dry I'd use a wax based lube for most of us don't live in the desert and see mixed riding conditions.

Even with wiping, I've never found oil based lubricants to be anything but dirt magnets. By the very nature of the material, the oil won't stay in place when in use. Let it stand for any amount of time and the oil will flow to the bottom of the chain and outward. The wax based lubricants have such a high viscosity that, once the carrier solvent has evaporated, they can't move. As evidence look at the incidence of chain leg between oil based users and wax based users;)

My comments about lubricant for MileHighMark and others who ride in my area. I did say that the oil/mineral spirits wasn't a good choice for here...Colorado...for this year. We just aren't experiencing any moisture this year along the Front Range.

The wax based lubricants have such a high viscosity that, once the carrier solvent has evaporated, they can't move.You say that as if it's a good thing. A lubricant is no good unless it's between the moving/sliding contact points. Something which flows (or bonds to metal, such as moly) is needed, so that capillary action can keep enough where it's needed. Oil or grease (which is oil with a soap binder) are fine. Wax isn't, unless it's part of a thixotropic emulsion (which is what most commercial "wax" chain lubes are - but they do move).

Many lubes including mine can't be applied below certain temps, though some, like mine, work fine in the cold. Warming the lube won't necessarily help, unless the chain is warmed also. Otherwise the minute the warm lube hits the cold chain it cools and stops flowing.

This is exactly the case. Even if it is stored at a decent temperature, Rock N Roll Extreme, and many other lubes on the market, will solidify once they hit a cold chain. When the lube and chain are at a decent temperature, like 50 or above, the lubricant can be applied normally and then can be run in cold weather just fine. But when warm lube hits a cold chain, it will harden right up.

Rock N Roll Extreme, and many other lubes on the market, will solidify once they hit a cold chain. When the lube and chain are at a decent temperature, like 50 or above, the lubricant can be applied normally and then can be run in cold weather just fine.

From different chain lubricants I tried out, of which there had been ~20, Rock N Roll had the worst ability to stay on the chain. It might have, unsurprisingly in this context, the best ability to clean the chain, for which I recall it is being advertised, but then I have better ways to clean the chain.

My comments about lubricant for MileHighMark and others who ride in my area. I did say that the oil/mineral spirits wasn't a good choice for here...Colorado...for this year. We just aren't experiencing any moisture this year along the Front Range.


I rode close to 20 miles of dirt today, and the trails were as dry as they are in summertime. An application of Boeshield (applied the day before, and wiped down) lasted about 10 miles before the chain started making some minor noises. That's about 2 miles more than Pro-Link would have lasted, but Dumonde Tech would have been good for the whole ride (and the chain would have been pretty grimy). I gave Squirt a try a month or so ago, and the chain was chirping after 12-13 miles in the dirt.

http://www.ravingbikefiend.com/bikepics/uav2010winter2small.JPG

After a week's riding in the snow, sand, and slush.

After a week's riding in the snow, sand, and slush.

Better commercial lubes may hold for 10 days and at times 2 weeks under such conditions. I have crossed to the level of months, provided the chain does not rub against snow. In the latter case, I may need to reapply after a month.

A week of winter riding for me is 200 km and my bikes get stored inside but in an unheated garage so that makes a big difference... I re-lube once a week as a matter of habit and have had my chains last through the winter and into the spring without needing replacement.

Mid winter here is dry and cold and the most extreme season is spring when things start to melt... one might have to wipe down and re-lube their chain on a near daily basis then.

You say that as if it's a good thing. A lubricant is no good unless it's between the moving/sliding contact points. Something which flows (or bonds to metal, such as moly) is needed, so that capillary action can keep enough where it's needed. Oil or grease (which is oil with a soap binder) are fine. Wax isn't, unless it's part of a thixotropic emulsion (which is what most commercial "wax" chain lubes are - but they do move).

Capillary action works both ways. If you can move the lubricant around, you can squeeze the lubricant out of the spaces where you want to keep the lubricant. If they don't flow, they are harder to squeeze them out of the spaces you want to keep them in.

Grease has a surfactant in it to keep the oil part from flowing out of the surfaces you want lubricated. Waxes...and we aren't talking candle wax here but something more like petroleum jelly...are essentially the same as the oil except they are thicker and don't flow.

I rode close to 20 miles of dirt today, and the trails were as dry as they are in summertime. An application of Boeshield (applied the day before, and wiped down) lasted about 10 miles before the chain started making some minor noises. That's about 2 miles more than Pro-Link would have lasted, but Dumonde Tech would have been good for the whole ride (and the chain would have been pretty grimy). I gave Squirt a try a month or so ago, and the chain was chirping after 12-13 miles in the dirt.

If you are only getting 8 to 10 miles out of your lubricant, you should change it. I use White Lightning, exclusively, here in Colorado in all seasons. I don't apply lubricant all that often. I go 6 weeks or longer (500-700 miles) on my commuter bike and certainly more than 10 miles per application off-road. I do re-apply after wet rides but that's pretty common for dry lubricants. Even then, it's more to protect against rust than for lubrication.

If you are only getting 8 to 10 miles out of your lubricant, you should change it. I use White Lightning, exclusively, here in Colorado in all seasons. I don't apply lubricant all that often. I go 6 weeks or longer (500-700 miles) on my commuter bike and certainly more than 10 miles per application off-road. I do re-apply after wet rides but that's pretty common for dry lubricants. Even then, it's more to protect against rust than for lubrication.

In my memory, the staying power of White Lightning, where you need it, is comparable to T9. In contrast to T9, however, White Lightning introduces maintenance problems of its own. To clean the cassette, you basically need to take it off and better maybe even take it apart.

If you ride where it is really dusty and dry I'd use a wax based lube for most of us don't live in the desert and see mixed riding conditions.

I use to live in the desert of Southern California in Palmdale/Lancaster and Bakersfield and I can tell you from that experience that using any wax based lube is pure crap!! I had to carry a small bottle of it in my seat bag if I was going to ride more then 50 miles so I could stop and relube my chain, or else at around 65 miles the chain would start to make noise. In case you forgot lubrication science: where there is noise there is lack of lubrication, and where there is lack of lubrication there is wear. While using wax my chains lasted about 3,000 miles, using anything but wax got me at least double the miles on a chain.

So I went to Finish Line Ceramic Dry lube, goes on wet just as wax based lubes, and dries dry just like wax based lubes, but lasts at least 5 times longer then wax in the mileage department before relubing, and chain life doubled. I now use Chain L on two of my bikes that got new chains this last spring, court is still out on the chain wear issue but after 1800 miles I've only had to clean it with a chain cleaning machine and relube the chain once only because if felt weird not to, even though the instruction said you don't have to clean the chain just wipe and reapply.

What about wear on your cassettes and chainrings?

What about wear on your cassettes and chainrings? what about them? My cassettes and chainrings last at least twice as long as the chains and most of the time 3 times longer and in some cases 4 times! I've been riding for over 40 years so I know what works and what doesn't...at least for me. But consistently over the years of people that I ran into that eventually switched from wax to other lubes and reported better results in chain wear.

But look I'm not one to sit here behind a computer and tell you don't use wax, you can use wax if you want, heck you can spray your chain down with Pledge and have the same results!!! but if you really want your chains to last longer rather then not worry about getting black smudges on your fingers when you touch the chain then use a lube without wax. I clean my chains enough I don't get black smudges anyways, and the two chains I'm using Chain-L on as an experiment doesn't leave black crud either as long as you wipe it down after every ride.

Peace out bro and merry Christmas

but if you really want your chains to last longer rather then not worry about getting black smudges on your fingers when you touch the chain then use a lube without wax. I clean my chains enough I don't get black smudges anyways, and the two chains I'm using Chain-L on as an experiment doesn't leave black crud either as long as you wipe it down after every ride.

Wow!... I on the other hand want to forget about the chain. What is the benefit of lubing once in 1800 miles if I am supposed to wipe the chain few times every day? What is the benefit of not being stained by the chain, if I have to carry a cloth that stains everything? In any case, the need for an incessant wiping of the chain or 'cleaning the chains enough' and the need to rarely relube does not stack up in my book in more ways than one.

I'm always amazed at the level of passion that chain lube debates stir up. Get real folks - we're talking about bike chains, not global warming.

Possibly one reason that there's no consensus is that everyone is most concerned about a different aspect, be it long drive train life, ease of use, low temp performance, wet performance, cleanliness, and so on. By rights I should be among the most passionate since chain lube is a major part of my living. OTOH maybe knowing that no chain lube will ever please everybody is why I'm the least so.

My advice is simple whatever you're using. If it works for you, stay with it. If you're not satisfied, decide what you don't like about and want to improve, and what, if anything you can accept as a trade off. Then try a a lube or technique that purportedly will meet that objective, and if that works, stop worrying and go back to riding your bike.

Wow!... I on the other hand want to forget about the chain. What is the benefit of lubing once in 1800 miles if I am supposed to wipe the chain few times every day? What is the benefit of not being stained by the chain, if I have to carry a cloth that stains everything? In any case, the need for an incessant wiping of the chain or 'cleaning the chains enough' and the need to rarely relube does not stack up in my book in more ways than one.

Huh? who said anything about wiping the chain a few times a day? With wax lubes I had to relube the damn chains at least after every ride, or during a ride if the ride was more the about 50 miles which meant I had to carry a bottle of wax lube in my seat bag! So in reality wax lube is more work not less.

I'm always amazed at the level of passion that chain lube debates stir up. Get real folks - we're talking about bike chains, not global warming.

.

YOUR WRONG, it is about global warming!! The more I pedal my bike the more I exhale CO2 which contributes to the global warming. And it takes a lot of oil to make carbon fiber bikes and tires and tubes and all of that contributes to the global warming event. Personally I'm a cheer leader for global warming anyways so for me this is all a non-issue. Who doesn't live in the snow belt wants to be able to ride their bikes all year round without having to bundle up and still freeze your collective ashes off? So I buy cars that get crappy gas mileage and cars that don't need smog controls to help achieve this goal. RA RA RA COME YE GLOBAL WARMING SO I CAN RIDE MY BIKE OUTDOORS ALL YEAR.

I clean my chains enough I don't get black smudges anyways, and the two chains I'm using Chain-L on as an experiment doesn't leave black crud either as long as you wipe it down after every ride.


Huh? who said anything about wiping the chain a few times a day?

Well, I ride a bike many times a day, neglecting my obligation to contribute to a global warming by driving an inefficient car. So wiping after every ride translates to wiping several times a day. The eagerness to offer advice is not always balanced by experience or judgment but at times it is worth to continue a discussion to see the counterweight:).

Update:

Outside temp 50f. Ran the chain in the stand for a minute or so in an attempt to warm it up (before applying the RnR). Kept shaking the bottle so that the liquid didn't have a chance to coagulate. Applied it to the chain, and it did a much better job of penetrating. The formula seems a lot different (read: thicker) than I remember it. Going to see how it holds up to an off-road ride tomorrow (Sunday).

Well, I ride a bike many times a day, neglecting my obligation to contribute to a global warming by driving an inefficient car. So wiping after every ride translates to wiping several times a day. The eagerness to offer advice is not always balanced by experience or judgment but at times it is worth to continue a discussion to see the counterweight:).

When you say you ride it several times a day, how many miles does that translate into? I wipe down the chain with a clean rag that takes about 20 seconds to do at the most. If rode the bike several times in one day but only went 8 miles total I would forget it for about 3 days, if I rode the bike several times a day and went 10 miles each time for a total of say 30 miles then I would wipe it down everyday. What some people don't realize is that a clean chain also last longer, thus it's a combination of oil on the chain just as the factory puts on and not wax, and cleanliness.

And don't forget I'm a cheerleader for global warming!!

By the way, there is a similar post going on right here on this very subject of how bad wax is for chains, see: http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php/702935-Waxing-your-chain-is-awesome!!!!

Rode 15 dirt miles today with the RnR-lubed chain. Quiet, smooth, and shifting was great. Could have done more miles w/o needing additional lube.

Some "after" pics of the chain/cogs/rings:
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5248/5294977022_94ecf64f79.jpg
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5250/5294380305_daec5a505a.jpg
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5286/5294976026_bce0378831.jpg

Rode 15 dirt miles today with the RnR-lubed chain. Quiet, smooth, and shifting was great. Could have done more miles w/o needing additional lube.

Looks like you have untreated rust there outside of the chain, that would not be tolerated on the bikes that I am in charge of. Otherwise the cogs look somewhat messy but that could be from previous lubes.

Looks like you have untreated rust there outside of the chain, that would not be tolerated on the bikes that I am in charge of. Otherwise the cogs look somewhat messy but that could be from previous lubes.

No rust that I'm aware of. And yes, the gunk on the cogs is from previous lubes.

Places that look like rust are marked. There are some more that are less clear cut.
183684

Places that look like rust are marked. There are some more that are less clear cut.
183684

That would be dirt.

In my memory, the staying power of White Lightning, where you need it, is comparable to T9. In contrast to T9, however, White Lightning introduces maintenance problems of its own. To clean the cassette, you basically need to take it off and better maybe even take it apart.

I've never had any kind of maintenance problems or build up while using White Lightning. I've been using it for roughly 15 years now, exclusively, and never noticed any problems that are insurmountable. It's far cleaner, easier to use and requires less maintenance than oil based lubricants. There may be minor build up in the cassette cogs but that can be mitigated by not over using it (it doesn't need to be applied daily). Any build up is easily removed with a thin bladed screw driver as needed.

I use to live in the desert of Southern California in Palmdale/Lancaster and Bakersfield and I can tell you from that experience that using any wax based lube is pure crap!! I had to carry a small bottle of it in my seat bag if I was going to ride more then 50 miles so I could stop and relube my chain, or else at around 65 miles the chain would start to make noise. In case you forgot lubrication science: where there is noise there is lack of lubrication, and where there is lack of lubrication there is wear. While using wax my chains lasted about 3,000 miles, using anything but wax got me at least double the miles on a chain.

So I went to Finish Line Ceramic Dry lube, goes on wet just as wax based lubes, and dries dry just like wax based lubes, but lasts at least 5 times longer then wax in the mileage department before relubing, and chain life doubled. I now use Chain L on two of my bikes that got new chains this last spring, court is still out on the chain wear issue but after 1800 miles I've only had to clean it with a chain cleaning machine and relube the chain once only because if felt weird not to, even though the instruction said you don't have to clean the chain just wipe and reapply.

:roflmao2: You don't like wax lubricants :roflmao2: And then you endorse one:roflmao2: Stop it, dude! You're killing me:roflmao2:

The stuff you are using and getting "at least 5 times" better results is a wax lube...Ceramic WAX Lube. The ceramic part of the lubricant is a marketing come-on. Ceramics and steel parts are not compatible. Ceramics tend to be very, very, very hard materials. They can usually scratch steel so using them to 'lubricant' anything is like adding grinding paste. It'll make it smoother but it will grind away material while doing so. Finish Line may indeed have some ceramic in the lubricant but the stuff that is doing the heavy lifting, i.e. the lubricating, is the wax...just like other wax lubricants.

As for your claim that you have to apply wax lubes every 50 miles, I call BS! I toured 450 miles in Arkansas this spring and applied White Lightning exactly once...after a rain storm...strictly as a prophylactic measure. I apply WL to my commuter bike every 6 weeks or so which is well over 450 miles between applications. I apply WL to my mountain bikes is about the same distance.
I don't replace drivetrain parts all that often...including chains. I certainly can get more then 3000 miles out of a chain.

As for lubrication science: where there is heat, there is wear. A John Hopkins study (http://www.jhu.edu/news_info/news/home99/aug99/bike.html) showed that heat wasn't generated in a bicycle chain even when there is no lubricant present. The 'lubrication' may be serving a purpose but it isn't the same as lubricants you'd find in other applications where the parts are turning much faster.

Cold weather, yes... 12 years old.. No.

Places that look like rust are marked. There are some more that are less clear cut.


You may be seeing rust but it's not on the chain. Where's the rust on the chain that you see?


No rust that I'm aware of. And yes, the gunk on the cogs is from previous lubes.

I agree. It's a mountain bike. It should be dirty. Your bike is even cleaner than any mountain bike I own. A clean mountain bike is like a clean pig...it's unhappy:thumb: Keep ridin'!

Cold weather, yes... 12 years old.. No.

Lube is brand new.

I've never had any kind of maintenance problems or build up while using White Lightning. I've been using it for roughly 15 years now, exclusively, and never noticed any problems that are insurmountable. It's far cleaner, easier to use and requires less maintenance than oil based lubricants. There may be minor build up in the cassette cogs but that can be mitigated by not over using it (it doesn't need to be applied daily). Any build up is easily removed with a thin bladed screw driver as needed.

In my few year experience with White Lightning, it would change the cassette into a block of wax. You could use up your lifetime trying to clean it with a screwdriver. I am not saying that, because of this, one should turn to oil based lubricants. I am saying that the build up is one reason to look for something better. The buildup is a nuisance but it does not disqualify White Lightning.



You may be seeing rust but it's not on the chain. Where's the rust on the chain that you see?

I would not expect rust on a chain after one ride under the conditions that the appearance of the bike suggests. Maybe after 5 days without relubing yes. With T9 I would expect rust after 2 weeks under the same conditions. However, I would expect a rust with RnR after one ride in a downpour or where chain rubs numerous times against snow.

In my few year experience with White Lightning, it would change the cassette into a block of wax. You could use up your lifetime trying to clean it with a screwdriver. I am not saying that, because of this, one should turn to oil based lubricants. I am saying that the build up is one reason to look for something better. The buildup is a nuisance but it does not disqualify White Lightning.

You way overstate the problem. I've only experienced small amounts of build up. Compared to the build up of dust and dirt when using oil based lubricants and the cleaning nightmare that those cause, it's only a minor problem.




I would not expect rust on a chain after one ride under the conditions that the appearance of the bike suggests. Maybe after 5 days without relubing yes. With T9 I would expect rust after 2 weeks under the same conditions. However, I would expect a rust with RnR after one ride in a downpour or where chain rubs numerous times against snow.

I don't see any 'rust' on MileHighMark's chain and he says there isn't any. The chain actually looks clean. The 'rust' you pointed out in your picture isn't on the chain nor is it really rust. The 'rust' you see is typical Colorado granitic dust. It tends to be rather red in color in many locations...hence our state's name - Colorado, a Spanish word meaning 'reddish color':rolleyes: