Mountain Biking - Trail riding with a dog

Two things:

First. Seems in this area, where most mountain bike trails are in state parks, the subject of mtb'ing with dogs can be a heated one. I believe Michigan state parks require dogs be on a 6' leash, so some riders get bent out of shape if a dog is not on a leash, and others simply don't like dogs being on the trail. I presume mountain biking with a dog on a leash is pretty difficult and dangerous, but must say myself I have never tried. What do you think? Dogs, no dogs, or dogs only on leashes?

Second. I have a dog - Golden Retriever/Australian Shepherd mix. She has a good amount of energy, and I would love to have her run along side me on the trail without a leash (as long as BF is cool with that idea :-). From those who have experience, how did you train your dog to run along side you as you bike? Was it difficult? When did you know it was the right time to take off the leash?

I've ridden on trails with the those who insist on riding with their dogs. One in particular brought his AKC certified german shephard. The dog did what dogs do when suddenly placed in a fast moving, outdoor envirionment. The dog became confused, it ran after guys on mountain bikes, causing at least one wreck (maybe more). The owner then said the saying that drives roadies nuts, "Oh, he's freindly, he doesn't bite" as he's trying to bite another bikers leg.:rolleyes: Then it caught site of some wild deer, and gave chase. Last I saw, the owner was trying to get a group together to find his dog. I'm pretty sure he never found it as a german shephard was found dead not far from the trail in less than a week after he lost the dog.
If you want to ride with your dog in a wide open area where you are just about the only rider, have at it, but be aware, your pet will do what nature intends for it to do and it may decide to chase wild animals and become lost. If you are riding an area with a lot of bikes, it's a bad idea. Reverse the situation and ask yourself how you would feel if someone's dog causes you to wreck. If you think your pet will not stray, try riding a MUP with it on a leash and see if you're right. If your pet shows it will stay by your side, then I'd say go for it.

I ride alone with the dog all the time. I put a bear-bell on her collar and she'll keep up behind me for about an hour.

When I ride with people I know, she's totally fine and generally stays behind and out of the way.

When I come up on other people on the trail, I'll yield the way and she'll stay off the trail, sniffing and peeing in the forest. Once it's clear, we head off again. It helps that she loves people too. She gets along great with hikers and all my riding partners.

If you have any doubt, hike the trail you're thinking about riding to see how the dog will react.

As a last piece of information, search for the huge thread on this topic from six months ago.

I ride with my dog often...although not while mountain biking. I hang the leash over the bars without making a hard connection to allow a little slack and go at the pace that the dog is comfortable with. I trained him by stopping the ride if he behaved in a way that I did not like, once he is in a calm state the ride begins again. My dog loves to go with me on the bike but it is mainly arround the neighborhood and to the grocery store. I just hook his leash to my locked bike and he waits for me, he is a really well behaved dog. I say give it a try and have fun.

I had a blue heeler that I rode with on occasion, he was good for around 10 miles. The first mile he would heard the bike by nipping on the tires. I miss the sound of teeth buzzing on the knobbies.

1. keep it on a leash or don't bring it on the trail. And that goes for both cyclists and hikers. If they're public trails, then no one should have to be approached by your loose dog, no matter how nice you think it is. And when your loose dog and another loose dog get into a fight... yeah.

2. if you're going to bring it, clean the poop off the trail. No one likes stepping in, or rolling through, your dog's poop.


I've seen how blind dog owners can be to the fact that their precious pet is not welcome in my personal space. Try to think beyond just yourself.

1. keep it on a leash or don't bring it on the trail. And that goes for both cyclists and hikers. If they're public trails, then no one should have to be approached by your loose dog, no matter how nice you think it is. And when your loose dog and another loose dog get into a fight... yeah.

2. if you're going to bring it, clean the poop off the trail. No one likes stepping in, or rolling through, your dog's poop.


I've seen how blind dog owners can be to the fact that their precious pet is not welcome in my personal space. Try to think beyond just yourself.

Perhaps you should as well.

I've got a Black Lab that rides with me all the time. I live in Essex, County Ontario, about an hour from Ann Arbor.

When I'm on something like Rail Trails with the dog and I see an oncoming cyclist, I either leash him or just stop and have the dog sit beside me until the cyclist goes buy (he's a very well behaved dog and doesn't chase)

When I hit the trails, he diligently follows me. Whenever we come upon a cyclist, I'll just momentarily stop, the dog sits by my side, I hold his collar (more for satisfying the cyclist than for the dog) and let the cyclist pass.

Funny story with the Lab. The first time we went to a nearby MTB park, we went through and he had a blast following me. There are some sections where the single track zig-zags back and forth. The second time we came upon the zig zag sections, he'd stop at the beginning and watch me go back and forth. Then, when I was all done, he would just skip over the zig zags in a straight line saving himself all those extra steps.

Canflyboy

My dog would be pissed if I didn't bring her along on a ride, and would think I was an idiot if I tried riding with her on a leash.

Good question. I've ridden my dog on trails, a lot in the winter, seldom other times.

I have a cocker spaniel and he's very good. He won't leave me, won't chase after deer, won't chase after other riders (except in front of my house!). He runs in front of me or behind me, I prefer behind me as he slows and gets confused if there are any forks or turns and I get close to him. Any other bikers, I pull over and hold him as a courtesy. Problems I've encountered, riders coming up from behind that I don't see, riders up front coming around turns and don't see the dog through the shrubs/trees, and then most of the time the trails are so narrow I can't pull over let alone pull over and hold the dog. I'm more likely to run him in the winter or weekdays when the trails are less crowded. never evenings or weekends.

I think the cowbell is a great idea and I think I'll get one of those small bell strands and wrap the bell strand around his neck. If that doesn't work, then a cowbell it is.

Did we not just have this thread a few weeks ago?

I had a border collie and I took him on rides to teach him not to chase bicycles. It worked, he never chased bicycles and taught my next dog before he died. We were lucky to have access to a huge network of old logging roads (not the gravel kind) and he would go full on for 6 hours and want to play ball when we got home. What a nut! His only problem is that he wasn't afraid of bikes, of course, so he wouldn't get out of the way quickly but I knew most of the other riders that I rarely came across and they were so impressed with him, they just saw him as another small tree in the trail and went around him.
Where I live now, after 12 years, I finally came across a dog that chased my bike. Dogs are mostly off-leash in our small town and the dogs are well socialized and don't realize that everywhere else dogs chase bikes. Out in the county is another story!
If your dog is perfectly trained when you are walking in many different environments, then I would try him on empty trails to teach him and have friends bike by to test him. Because so many dog owners are terrible when it comes to training, you must be aware and overly considerate to other people. If you train your dog for that specific activity, most people will love him and be amazed but if he doesn't respond really, really well to that activity then don't force it on others on the trails.

The people around here that ride with dogs have been doing it since the dogs were a pup. In fact we even have a muddy paws race, MTB time trail for bikes and dogs.

Did we not just have this thread a few weeks ago?

Different dog!

Most of the times I've encountered mountain bikers with their dogs, the dogs were well-behaved and it was fine. A couple of times though, the dog was poorly trained and had no qualms about darting in front of bikes or chasing. I haven't been bitten or knocked over yet, knock on wood. I guess the issue is that everyone thinks their dog is well-behaved and would *never* do anything bad, but clearly, since it happens, that's not the case. It's the exception rather than the rule though, so I can't complain too much.

For the record, I care about dog poop a lot less than the huge piles of horse sh*t that take up the entire trail.

The trail is in the wild. I've never ridden with any of my dogs. I have gone hiking with them and rememeber one time when I was hikeing a fire road and people coming the other direction warned my about coyotes.

Now my pair were a joined at the hip mismatch of an oversized Belgian Sheepdog and a smallish Presa Canario. Menaing they were both 105 lbs and were in no danger. I was in danger of having to chase dogs and coyotes miles through the brush.

On my very first mountian bike ride I almost ran over a rattlesnake. I have come across them several times riding. I would not want to try to control a dog while on hte bike when suddenly confronted with such.

Dogs/bikes do not mix.
Would you ride your bike in a doggie park?

Dogs on leashes and MTB trails don't work.
Poorly trained dogs and other people or other dogs don't work.
Well trained dogs off leash work.

Dogs pooping on the trail is lame.
Dogs pooping off the trail (in the woods) is normal. Where do the birds, wolves, squirrels, deer, rabbits and bears poop?

For some additional reading: It's a time warp! (http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php/690101-Dog-on-trail-wever)

My mom brought this guy (Kobi) home last night. Came from a couple who was having to move back in to one of their parents' houses, & the mother is incredibly allergic to dog dander. He's two years old & supposedly well trained (sit, stay, speak, come, etc) so I'm going to take some time to get to know him & then try taking him on a run. If that goes well, I might try him out at the trails. He's a Sheltie mut I think? But very well-mannered & he follows me around the house fairly consistently at about 2ft diagonal behind me, so he should do pretty well. He could definitely use the exercise..this dog is pudgy.

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab24/samburger077/GOPR0044.jpg

My mom brought this guy (Kobi) home last night. Came from a couple who was having to move back in to one of their parents' houses, & the mother is incredibly allergic to dog dander. He's two years old & supposedly well trained (sit, stay, speak, come, etc) so I'm going to take some time to get to know him & then try taking him on a run. If that goes well, I might try him out at the trails. He's a Sheltie mut I think? But very well-mannered & he follows me around the house fairly consistently at about 2ft diagonal behind me, so he should do pretty well. He could definitely use the exercise..this dog is pudgy.

Congrats! Dogs are great, let us know about your experiences with him on the trail.

http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/1505/dogc.jpg (http://img442.imageshack.us/i/dogc.jpg/)

Thats your trail dog right there

Would you ride your bike in a doggie park?

In the right conditions, hell yes I would! Just like in the right conditions, I'd bring my dog out on the trail. Those conditions are listed by Grimlock.

And very nice Johnny! But you gotta train a dog to be trail worthy :P

Ok, a few guys I know own dogs and don't bring them.

Here is a quick list.


It's against most bylaws. Only a jerk would mtb with the dog on a leash. No leash, violates the city or town bylaws.
You can travel very far on a bicycle and the dog will try to keep up till it keeps over dead.
Ticks.
Burdocks.
Poison Ivy.
Other animals.
Other people. This is a big one, most guys I know like dogs but, hate dealing with dogs running allover the trail or stopping dead in the middle of the trail or running across your line at the last second causing you to lock up and crash. They won't tell it to your face because you'd be offended, you just don't get invited again.


If you love your dog, by caring for it properly, leave it at home and find the time to walk and exercise it under the right conditions.

1. keep it on a leash or don't bring it on the trail. And that goes for both cyclists and hikers. If they're public trails, then no one should have to be approached by your loose dog, no matter how nice you think it is. And when your loose dog and another loose dog get into a fight... yeah.

2. if you're going to bring it, clean the poop off the trail. No one likes stepping in, or rolling through, your dog's poop.


I've seen how blind dog owners can be to the fact that their precious pet is not welcome in my personal space. Try to think beyond just yourself.


Perhaps you should as well.

Huh?

Some people are afraid of dogs. Some people don't like dogs.

I don't care if people want to keep dogs or take dogs out, or do whatever they want to with their dogs. Just don't assume I like dogs. Live and let live, share the path, etc - it means people giving over for each other. And I don't consider someone else's dog jumping up at me to represent giving over in the slightest.

Well trained dogs off leash work.

I still think this about covers it. A well trained dog won't:
-stop dead in the trail
-run zig-zag across the trail
-poop on the trail
-chase other people or dogs
-get in anyones way any more than another rider would, which is inevitable with more than one person on a trail

I guess when it comes down to it, location is the biggest factor. How many people will be at your local trail on any given day? Because for me, there will be half a dozen people on a very busy day. On a normal day, one or two people at most. If your trails are popular, it's probably best to leave the dog at home. If your trails are like mine, I see no problems at all.

And very nice Johnny! But you gotta train a dog to be trail worthy :P

i think she could be man, i would love to take her on a ride-ride. I just really mess around with her on the trails behind my house (the ones we created - they are much better now) and she holds up great. I mean if she can handle the kayaking trips i dont think she would have a problem with a few mile ride on an isolated trail at the Horse Park on a dead day? Im thinking about taking her out before i go off to WA. I leave around the 20th, and i leave Sachi behind as well.... :(

Huh?

Some people are afraid of dogs. Some people don't like dogs.

I don't care if people want to keep dogs or take dogs out, or do whatever they want to with their dogs. Just don't assume I like dogs. Live and let live, share the path, etc - it means people giving over for each other. And I don't consider someone else's dog jumping up at me to represent giving over in the slightest.

That's your opinion. If there aren't laws prohibiting dogs being somewhere, then I see no reason to expect others to give a **** how you feel about dogs. I may not like a person but if it's public property I can't expect that they won't be there just because I think they're a ******bag.

I wouldn't bring a dog with me that wasn't well trained, but I couldn't care less if people don't like dogs.

I still think this about covers it. A well trained dog won't:
-stop dead in the trail
-run zig-zag across the trail
-poop on the trail
-chase other people or dogs
-get in anyones way any more than another rider would, which is inevitable with more than one person on a trail

I guess when it comes down to it, location is the biggest factor. How many people will be at your local trail on any given day? Because for me, there will be half a dozen people on a very busy day. On a normal day, one or two people at most. If your trails are popular, it's probably best to leave the dog at home. If your trails are like mine, I see no problems at all.

Numbers do make a huge difference. Years ago my wife and I took our 2 dogs on a hike in the local mountians. No problems, because we met absolutely 0 people.

Come to think of it I've been on a couple of other hikes with then and 0 people. So of course no problems. But at least one of those trails would be a major problem for passing anyone.

For the OP, time can make a huge difference in numbers. A trail that looks like rush hour on weekends can be empty on weekdays. Time of day can be harder to judge. At least here some trails are busy early and empty once it gets hot.

Oh that reminds me. As other have already pointed out the dog will be working, likely far more than yuo are. Remember to have water and somethign he can drink out of if you do try riding with him.

I a Walkydog (http://www.thedogoutdoors.com/walkydog-dog-bike-leash.html). It's a shock absorbing boom attachement that hooks on to your seat post. Attachment point is below your center of gravity on the bike. If the dog lurches (even hard) to the side you barely feel it.

Video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FxnBwr5Q92Y&feature=player_embedded#%21)

I've had mixed experiences with dogs. I love dogs, and have encountered some very well trained animals on the trail, but as people have been saying, sometimes dogs can exhibit different behavior when other cyclists are passing or if there's general excitement.

This past summer I was riding on some tight single track that's usually dominated by cyclists, when I come upon a lady and her dog in a switchback. The dog was a huge husky, but seemed pretty calm as I approached. The lady went out of her way to tell me that the dog was friendly, and that it's name was (appropriately) "Chewie." As I slowly rode around the downhill switchback, the lady having moved up the trail in the other direction, "Chewie" starts chasing me, growls, and nips my heel. I didn't stop to tell the owner, as I was riding off as fast as I possibly could Chewie was hot on my heels. Luckily all Chewie got from me was a nip, no broken skin or anything, but it was scary in the moment. Even though I love dogs, I think there's just something about a moving bike that can trigger a "herding" reaction in what is otherwise an amicable dog.

That's your opinion. If there aren't laws prohibiting dogs being somewhere, then I see no reason to expect others to give a **** how you feel about dogs. I may not like a person but if it's public property I can't expect that they won't be there just because I think they're a ******bag.

I wouldn't bring a dog with me that wasn't well trained, but I couldn't care less if people don't like dogs.

I don't expect people to not take dogs in case someone doesn't like them. I do expect dogs to be under a level of control as required by the law. If they aren't under control I will take whatever action is required to remove any danger from the dog based on my own assessment of the situation. I have been known to thump a dog that jumped up at me, and to grab a dog by its collar and drag it 100 yards back to where the owners (who weren't paying any attention at all to it) were standing chatting.

On a shared use path I expect to find people walking, cycling, walking dogs, small children, whatever else. The fact there aren't laws prohibiting something doesn't mean a free-for-all in being an a*se with an animal that isn't under control. The simple point is, if someone's dog endangers me then they are the one who is out of line. Shared means everybody gets to use the path - and that doesn't mean I'm expected to put up with someone else's dog jumping up at me.

I actually agree with you here, contango, even though I never ride without my dog. The bottom line is that the dog better be trained to trail ride. I can ride with Iris, my border collie, because no one even knows she's there- she sticks to my rear wheel and knows to ignore anything we may come upon- people, animals, etc.

I've had mixed experiences with dogs. I love dogs, and have encountered some very well trained animals on the trail, but as people have been saying, sometimes dogs can exhibit different behavior when other cyclists are passing or if there's general excitement.

This past summer I was riding on some tight single track that's usually dominated by cyclists, when I come upon a lady and her dog in a switchback. The dog was a huge husky, but seemed pretty calm as I approached. The lady went out of her way to tell me that the dog was friendly, and that it's name was (appropriately) "Chewie." As I slowly rode around the downhill switchback, the lady having moved up the trail in the other direction, "Chewie" starts chasing me, growls, and nips my heel. I didn't stop to tell the owner, as I was riding off as fast as I possibly could Chewie was hot on my heels. Luckily all Chewie got from me was a nip, no broken skin or anything, but it was scary in the moment. Even though I love dogs, I think there's just something about a moving bike that can trigger a "herding" reaction in what is otherwise an amicable dog.

Yep, the average pay-out for the victim of a dog bite is $24,840. It is the most common civil law-suit in america, some 4.7million americans are bitten each year and it is a $417 million industry for lawyers.

http://www.cbc.ca/gfx/images/news/topstories/2010/09/22/dog-bite-is-000006681388-306x172.jpg

Running your animals unleashed has serious consequences, I dare say, always. It is a lottery who your dog jumps on - maybe it's a smart lawyer or maybe it's dog whisperer - and even dog whisperer won't like it if your dog jumps on him.

It really is just a matter of time before some 5yr slaps your dog on the nose or it gets under somebody's bicycle wheel and they break an arm or the damn dog drinks up a pool of anti-freeze in a parking lot.

Sorry, but i'm not going to buy the rationalizations about oh we're in nature, yadda yadda i do it all the time no problem(yet). The best way to avoid the situation is to keep the dog on a leash. Just yesterday, again, I was chased by some crazy 100lb dog. One day i would like to get that owner and set some 100lb dogs on him. The worst offenders at this are those who think they're in "nature", or country folk... why? It is simple really, they are the worst because their dogs are the ones not on leashes.

They aren't people and it is cruel to expect them to act that way in public.

The best way to avoid the situation is to keep the dog on a leash.

I refuse to believe that keeping an untrained dog on a leash while you're on a bicycle is safer than having a well-trained dog follow behind you. You seem to be of the mindset that all dogs are unable to be trained & need to be treated like they understand absolutely nothing but their core animal instincts, when this isn't at all the case. An untrained dog on a leash will still jump in front of people, but this time it'll do it with a clothes-line attached. If your dog is properly trained, I see nothing wrong with having it follow behind you, no more in the way than you are.

Here's proof of what dogs are capable of with the proper training: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9gCmASq-YRg/watch?v=9gCmASq-YRg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9gCmASq-YRg)

If a redneck is capable of training his dog to do that, the average Joe can absolutely train their dog to follow directly behind them & step of the trail when other riders are approaching.

I refuse to believe that keeping an untrained dog on a leash while you're on a bicycle is safer than having a well-trained dog follow behind you. You seem to be of the mindset that all dogs are unable to be trained & need to be treated like they understand absolutely nothing but their core animal instincts, when this isn't at all the case. An untrained dog on a leash will still jump in front of people, but this time it'll do it with a clothes-line attached. If your dog is properly trained, I see nothing wrong with having it follow behind you, no more in the way than you are.

Here's proof of what dogs are capable of with the proper training: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9gCmASq-YRg/watch?v=9gCmASq-YRg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9gCmASq-YRg)

If a redneck is capable of training his dog to do that, the average Joe can absolutely train their dog to follow directly behind them & step of the trail when other riders are approaching.

Of course it isn't my point that the leash is safer, obviously all these leash systems have one issue - a tree coming between you and the dog - *SNAP* goes something, the tree or your dog.

The conclusion is to leave your dog at home when MTB'n.

Dogs are dogs my man, sure you can train it... but what does it take to train it? mistakes. Those mistakes might cost you or a neighbour a lot. Even after being trained, the dog just can't understand what todo in every situation. Of course I realize many people have different "dog" philosophies, but in the eyes of law and society there is only one proper and forthright action in public - leashing the dog. Sorry.

Very true. Hopefully someone training their dog to go out on the trails with them would use controlled mistakes to teach their dog rather than just waiting for a law suit. Nine times out of ten, dogs aren't trained well enough to be on the trail. This is why leash laws make sense to have. BUT, how many of us follow 100% of the laws 100% of the time? Do we not all bend--or even outright break--the law on a regular basis, when that particular law wasn't intended for us? I know I do. This is why I remain a firm believer that if your dog is trained properly, you should be able to take it out on the trails without issue. But I want to make it clear that I'm not arguing leash laws & I'm not one of those extremist who thinks leashes are cruel & all dogs should run around free & kill each other just like they do in nature.

Very true. Hopefully someone training their dog to go out on the trails with them would use controlled mistakes to teach their dog rather than just waiting for a law suit. Nine times out of ten, dogs aren't trained well enough to be on the trail. This is why leash laws make sense to have. BUT, how many of us follow 100% of the laws 100% of the time? Do we not all bend--or even outright break--the law on a regular basis, when that particular law wasn't intended for us? I know I do. This is why I remain a firm believer that if your dog is trained properly, you should be able to take it out on the trails without issue. But I want to make it clear that I'm not arguing leash laws & I'm not one of those extremist who thinks leashes are cruel & all dogs should run around free & kill each other just like they do in nature.

Well, breaking the law is basically giving the finger to the general ethics of society(your riding buddies included). You do that, you're choosing to stand alone or place your wants above societies. It is probably why judges have no issue in awarding large settlements in such cases when the attacks happen. In public it is even clearer, because the answer was so simple and the owner deliberately chose to risk it.

So, no, breaking the law for that reason - I don't agree with. I walk the dog, on a leash and pickup it's ****. It really isn't that complicated.

So while you're up there on your high horse, you'll go ahead & verify that you've never broken a single law ever in your entire life for any reason without being punished to the fullest extent of the law? You NEVER drive faster than the speed limit? Never disobeyed anything your parents said when you were growing up? Never smoked a little green or had a sip of beer before you were of legal age? I leveled with you & admitted that those laws exist for a reason, but there is not a single law ANYWHERE that everyone should rightfully have to follow all the time. That would suggest that every single person in the world is exactly the same, which we're proving not to be true by disagreeing on something.

And I think what bothers me most is you seem to have no sense of what the laws are actually there for. Do you really think leash laws are there because having your dog attached to a rope is just the way of the world? Because I was always under the impression that it was to keep you, your dog, & other people/dogs safe. If your dog is properly trained, then you, your dog, & other people/dogs will remain safe even when your dog is off its leash. But I guess taking rules for their intended purposes is a thing of the past--in modern times, nothing matters but bureaucratic bull****. Who cares about dealing with problems on a case-by-case basis when you can go by the book & treat every single situation as if it's no different than the next.

So while you're up there on your high horse, you'll go ahead & verify that you've never broken a single law ever in your entire life for any reason without being punished to the fullest extent of the law? You NEVER drive faster than the speed limit? Never disobeyed anything your parents said when you were growing up? Never smoked a little green or had a sip of beer before you were of legal age? I leveled with you & admitted that those laws exist for a reason, but there is not a single law ANYWHERE that everyone should rightfully have to follow all the time. That would suggest that every single person in the world is exactly the same, which we're proving not to be true by disagreeing on something.

That isn't my point, you wanted to rationalize breaking the law. There are differences in intent you know, speeding by accident and speeding by choice(racing) and killing somebody are two different things. What you're describing is "speeding by choice" because you're deliberately loosing the dog when there are other people about. I told you that is antisocial.

Why do you care what my personal actions are anyways? I am no advocating you follow my example, just the rules set out by us. You want to break them that is your problem, quit whining about it law breaker.

You've NEVER sped by choice? When the speed limit is 60km/h & you see that you're going more like 62, you take the time to slow down & focus on your speedometer rather than the road? Because obeying every single law is what counts, & it would be silly to break the speed limit just to avoid the possibility of swerving into the other lane & killing someone. Possibilities aren't illegal, after all...but speeding is. And the law is what matters, not the problem the law was created to solve.

And I don't care about your personal actions, I care about the rational behind them. If after all is said & done, you choose not to take your dog on the trails--fine. That's your choice & I honestly couldn't care less. But to say there is absolutely no situation where it would be okay to take your dog on the trails without a leash is just bullheaded & asinine.

My rational is not to be anti-social in public.

I know maybe one day you'll get it. So here in the best way, is hoping somebody else's dog ruins your day on the trail. Seems like you need to learn the hard way.

Peace.

Thanks for the civics lesson, John Law esquire. Where do you ride your mountain bike, the city park?

And I think what bothers me most is you seem to have no sense of what the laws are actually there for. Do you really think leash laws are there because having your dog attached to a rope is just the way of the world? Because I was always under the impression that it was to keep you, your dog, & other people/dogs safe. If your dog is properly trained, then you, your dog, & other people/dogs will remain safe even when your dog is off its leash. But I guess taking rules for their intended purposes is a thing of the past--in modern times, nothing matters but bureaucratic bull****. Who cares about dealing with problems on a case-by-case basis when you can go by the book & treat every single situation as if it's no different than the next.

I agree that the function of the law is more important than the letter of the law. The question then comes to how to enforce the law - since we're on the topic of dogs it's entirely possible that one man's dog can run along beside the bike and not trouble anybody no matter how crowded the trail gets, while another man's dog will chase anything that moves and inflict grievous injury on anyone within biting range. How is law enforcement supposed to tell which dog is which, short of being attacked themselves? Just about everybody seems to think their dog is the perfect pet that wouldn't hurt a fly so no amount of protestation from the owner will prove anything (although, in fairness, one dog owner I encountered called her dog to her when she saw me approaching and held its collar until I was well past, on the basis she said the dog would chase me).

I have seen dogs on trails that were well trained, I've seen dogs that weren't well trained, I've encountered a couple of dogs who practically ran under my wheels and forced me to brake hard even though I was going at barely a moderate jogging pace. The only way a lot of laws can be enforced meaningfully is to impose them upon everybody.

Speeding also came up - while someone like Michael Schumacher might be safe driving much faster than the rest of us once again the traffic police have no way of knowing who is a very highly trained driver, who is a competent driver, who is drunk and who is driving a car they stole. So if they see someone going fast they pull them over. While we might argue that someone like Schumacher should be sent on his way it's much harder to justify not pulling him over to make sure it's not some young oik in a stolen car.

Thanks for the civics lesson, John Law esquire. Where do you ride your mountain bike, the city park?

Sometimes, and after that I ride it over to your mom's place. :D

I agree that the function of the law is more important than the letter of the law. The question then comes to how to enforce the law - since we're on the topic of dogs it's entirely possible that one man's dog can run along beside the bike and not trouble anybody no matter how crowded the trail gets, while another man's dog will chase anything that moves and inflict grievous injury on anyone within biting range. How is law enforcement supposed to tell which dog is which, short of being attacked themselves? Just about everybody seems to think their dog is the perfect pet that wouldn't hurt a fly so no amount of protestation from the owner will prove anything (although, in fairness, one dog owner I encountered called her dog to her when she saw me approaching and held its collar until I was well past, on the basis she said the dog would chase me).

I have seen dogs on trails that were well trained, I've seen dogs that weren't well trained, I've encountered a couple of dogs who practically ran under my wheels and forced me to brake hard even though I was going at barely a moderate jogging pace. The only way a lot of laws can be enforced meaningfully is to impose them upon everybody.

Speeding also came up - while someone like Michael Schumacher might be safe driving much faster than the rest of us once again the traffic police have no way of knowing who is a very highly trained driver, who is a competent driver, who is drunk and who is driving a car they stole. So if they see someone going fast they pull them over. While we might argue that someone like Schumacher should be sent on his way it's much harder to justify not pulling him over to make sure it's not some young oik in a stolen car.

Man, it is the same ol' story... people think it's not them that is causing the problem! Their dog is well behaved, it never bites or runs in front of somebody... ****, give me a break! The reason we have to write it down is because people don't want to inconvenience themselves or a dog, of all things.

Well I live in moose/bear country. My cowardly dog is not going in the woods with me! As to all those well behaved dogs, I'd like to meet them. I'm mainly a roadie and getting chased by some dog is pretty much a weekly event. Of course this also means I work on my sprints at least once a week, :lol:

As to all those well behaved dogs, I'd like to meet them. I'm mainly a roadie and getting chased by some dog is pretty much a weekly event. Of course this also means I work on my sprints at least once a week, :lol:
In my experience, trail dogs tend to be better behaved than dogs out in someone's yard. Most people who bring their dogs on trails train them well enough to not chase people. Not all, of course, but the majority are alright. Yard dogs don't seem to be trained nearly as often. This is, of course, a generalization, and there are always exceptions, but that's what I've seen anyway.

I agree that the function of the law is more important than the letter of the law. The question then comes to how to enforce the law - since we're on the topic of dogs it's entirely possible that one man's dog can run along beside the bike and not trouble anybody no matter how crowded the trail gets, while another man's dog will chase anything that moves and inflict grievous injury on anyone within biting range. How is law enforcement supposed to tell which dog is which, short of being attacked themselves? Just about everybody seems to think their dog is the perfect pet that wouldn't hurt a fly so no amount of protestation from the owner will prove anything (although, in fairness, one dog owner I encountered called her dog to her when she saw me approaching and held its collar until I was well past, on the basis she said the dog would chase me).

I have seen dogs on trails that were well trained, I've seen dogs that weren't well trained, I've encountered a couple of dogs who practically ran under my wheels and forced me to brake hard even though I was going at barely a moderate jogging pace. The only way a lot of laws can be enforced meaningfully is to impose them upon everybody.

Speeding also came up - while someone like Michael Schumacher might be safe driving much faster than the rest of us once again the traffic police have no way of knowing who is a very highly trained driver, who is a competent driver, who is drunk and who is driving a car they stole. So if they see someone going fast they pull them over. While we might argue that someone like Schumacher should be sent on his way it's much harder to justify not pulling him over to make sure it's not some young oik in a stolen car.

I agree completely & this is the same point I was trying to convey when I said I wasn't arguing the laws. We have to treat every situation as if it's a dangerous one because there is no way to know beforehand whether or not a dog will snap. My point was simply that situations do exist (in a fair world, which ours will never be) where someone should have the privilege of taking there dog to the trails. Not saying any laws or rules should be changed just for a few exceptions, just stating that not all dogs are dangerous. I thought this would be a universal understanding.

Oh & +1 to Zephyr. The trend seems to be that the more rural you get, the worse the dogs are trained. Not that there's anything wrong with that, there's just less reason to train a dog to run in a straight line when it has 100 acres of land to run around on.

Before I had a dog I could not stand dogs on the trail, actually now that I have one I still get pissed by most of the unleashed (and leashed on single track) dogs I encounter. Before I got this dog I would have said I would never ride with a dog, leashed or not. Now I ride with her quite often - but there are a few unique things about her, and I use large dose of common sense before I take her with me.
Her unique qualities:
She likes me and my family, and a couple of my kids friends - and that is it. She does not like anyone else, she will not approach them - and leaves plenty of room to pass, usually she gets off the trail to let others pass.
She is afraid of most things other than ripping single track, when we see a deer, moose, etc. she goes the other direction.
She does not bark - really (only at strangers approaching the house) She has never barked on the trail.
She will approach other dogs but she is scarred, and will turn tail if they growl or bark.
My common sense:
I only ride one trail with her - it is mainly a hiking trail, ~10 miles with about 2000' vert - I ride it a couple hours before sundown and if it is under 75f (which is often around here). Most people are off the trail - about 60% of the time we pass no hikers, and 80% no riders.
I carry a leash - just in case, but have never had to use it.
I did bring her with on a ride with a freind once, but I felt that was rude of me (he thought she was awesome though) so now I ride with her solo or with her and my kid.
If she craps - I kick it off the trail - I hate poop on the trail too.

Am I breaking a law - technicaly, yes. Am I inconveniencing anyone, or creating a potential for disaster? Nope.