Masters Racing (All Disciplines) - Just hanging out shooting the bull

I think they do, ... I heard that smooth line in a movie.

Was it one of your xtranormal movies?

Was it one of your xtranormal movies?

I wish I could be so articulate. The line was from Napoleon Dynamite.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HuedeniaO3A&NR=1

That was a fun exchange! Further reinforcement on how you guys think. Or, how "all" guys think!

I'm not saying it's a bad thing.

Me? Salmon. Roses. And there had better be wine. Or else (you don't want the "or else"!).

;~)

I'm out for the rest of the season, fellas. The hematoma, the size of a SOFTBALL (yes, it is) has not improved will be need to be drained. NO riding, absolutely NO running, and no swimming until that site heals. If I'm really good, I can make the Big Sur Half Marathon in November. Maybe.

I have a "good part", though.

Next year, when the season starts, I'll be sixty. I plan to make that a celebratory year, for me and dedicated to my late mom. I'm going to get really fit and do those athletic endeavors I've wanted to do - with a bit more focus and some honest to god training. I want to feel and see what I am capable of. Oh, I'm sure I'll be totally in the middle of average, but for me - Sarah Hammer and Evie Stevens rolled into one - oh, I should definitely include Track Diva, too! I'm going to go for it.

I wish I could be so articulate. The line was from Napoleon Dynamite.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HuedeniaO3A&NR=1

I needed that smooth of a line 45 years ago.

Sara take care of yourself.

Dang, Sara. But it's great, as always, to see your positive attitude. Keep posting, even while you're recovering!

You have a great attitude and realistic outlook Sara. It takes a few years for the body to amp it up and this past year was a good one. I'm sure that you will achieve levels of strength and fitness that you did not think possible.

So how do you guys obtain the large avatars? Some, like mine, are postage stamp sized and other's are like the special commemorative issue stamps with sea shells or tanks. Mine is just a puny thing and I can't find any directions on making it larger.

I don't think I'm on any secret probation with the mods.

So how do you guys obtain the large avatars? Some, like mine, are postage stamp sized and other's are like the special commemorative issue stamps with sea shells or tanks. Mine is just a puny thing and I can't find any directions on making it larger.

I don't think I'm on any secret probation with the mods.

Genetics.:D

I purchased the lifetime or 30 year subscription which included a larger avatar and I do not look at ads.

After the podiums, medals, kudos and roses, it time to get back on the training bandwagon. I have some very solid 40 second power with a proven track record.

Tuesday was an easy high cadence endurance ride for 1 hour. Last night we saddled up the TT bikes and hit the TT course for some z3/z4 10 minute intervals to put some endurance back in the tank. I thought these were going to be tough. They did not disappoint me other than to say my cadence was amazing. I use a stretch of road that is very smooth with a wide bike lane that has a 1-2% grade and I can go for 4 minutes at z5 power. Last night, I finished the last 4 minutes of a 10 minute interval over that section at z5 averaging 105 cadence in the TT position and although it was hard, it was not the gasping for air that follows a 4 minute z5. Last year, I was lucky to do z5 at 90 cadence.

The reason that is somewhat significant is that I have found that to knock out great power numbers, I have to slow down the cadence. And it is not so much about the breathing but it was hard to keep the power up. My racing buddy who is the current match sprint world champion commented to me the other day that focus on just power causes one to use lower cadence.

Anyway, I was very happy with the 105 "climbing" cadence at z5 power on the aerobars. And it only took 4 years and thousands of laps around the track. Anybody can do this.

If you need to feel good, here is a fabulous link. Benny Goodman Rides Again. I may have to add this to my cycling warmup play list.


http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=L7N6slVrQeY&vq=medium

That is an interesting observation Hermes. I am scheduled to do 4 x 2 mile TT intervals tonight but will do them tomorrow because I'm riding a club ride today will not be racing this weekend. I'll attempt to ramp up the cadence on at least 1 of them. I do know that when my cadence is 95 + on those intervals I do feel stronger at the end. My usual TT cadence is 86 - 92 where I feel I'm able to utilize the entire stroke more efficiently and still keep the HR down. I'm not prepping for any TT's now, just getting ready for the demands of a 45minute cyclocross races which are really a TT.

You guys and gals are such an inspiration! My, you're fit - and fast and strong. When I say I'm proud of all you I mean it with all of my heart (I feel almost like a mom - perish the though!!).

I admit my crash and the result of it has been one of those "denial" episodes. I really did think I could beat the odds, and that I was in such good shape as to defy my age. Nope. I'm mortal after all. Well, I've been down a similar road before, and I refuse to roll over or to start a pity party. I know from countless stories (some from you) that people do come back STRONGER from injury, and that's my goal. I love a challenge!

Thank you, all of you, for your support and that inspiration. I promise, I'll be a nuisance here, and I will be back at trying to be a 16 year old as soon as my body permits.

If you need to feel good, here is a fabulous link. Benny Goodman Rides Again. I may have to add this to my cycling warmup play list.


http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=L7N6slVrQeY&vq=medium

Sweet! Having played a LOT of big band, my only critque is that the order of the trombone players is "non-traditional" (a polite was of saying messed up), unless one of the trombones without an F attachment is playing the bass trombone part, and the soloist is sitting second chair. I love that the young trombone soloist is playing a vintage horn that has had the lacquer removed, which warms up the sound. Would have been perfect had it been a King model.

Thanks for the link... gonna have to see the whole flick.

I did "Structured Jumps" yesterday, standing, and it was interesting to see the relationship in power output to gear selection/cadence. The first set I did using a higher gear than the second set, and the best power came from the second, higher cadence, set. The power was also more consistent from rep to rep. I thought I was using a higher cadence than I was. I was in the high 80's low 90's, with the peak rep at only 94. I'll pay more attention next time, and see what happens if I do those up around 100.

I'm doing another FTP test Saturday, so I'm resting until then.

Hi folks. I wasn't around the forums much in the early part of this year so I have only just realised this sub-forum existed.

Anyway, I'm interested to have found it. I have the opportunity to retire early - not far short of my 57th birthday - so I'm going to have time to train properly and am thinking that maybe, next year, I might try racing. We call them veterans races, I guess that is masters racing in your language. Whether that proves practicable is an open question, because not many of those races happen in my area and I don't know whether I'll want to travel significant distances regularly in order to race. Whatever, if I train for racing that will at least give me the opportunity to choose when the time comes...

So, advice please. I'm 6'3" and about 204 lbs. That's about 20lbs above my fighting weight, so obviously that has to go. I'm used to high mileage and am a decent rouleur, even (despite my weight) holding my own with a lot of the younger guys on the climbs. I couldn't sprint out of sight on a dark night, though. So, basically, I'm very fit for an old fat guy but have no real top-end speed. I'm used to training with HR but have not much idea about power and am dubious about spending the power meter money at this stage.

I'm thinking mainly LSD in HR zones 2 (mainly) and 3. Once a week include a Z4 section, maybe 6x 2minutes plus recovery, mainly in the hills. Plus once a week the full-on Z5 intervals, 5x30 seconds rising to 5x90 seconds when I can hack it. About 15 hours per week total training volume.

Sound sensible?

Hi,

So after logging 1,030 miles (the most miles in one month since the 1980s) in July, I've been focusing on power for climbing this month. This is pretty old school training based on terrain, heart rate, and perceived effort. All of this is in preparation for nationals at the end of this month.

Did a road race (Sisquoc) a couple of weeks ago and got dropped on the big climb on the 1st lap but after a concerted chase with a couple of other dropees, I caught back up to the field only to get dropped on the climb on the 2nd lap. Rode solo until the climb on the 3rd (and last) lap. My buddy, who drove us to the race, dragged a couple of guys back up to me. I had to work hard to stay with them on the climb and would have been content to ride in formation over the line with them. However, as we're approaching the line it becomes apparent that they are lining up to sprint. I was second wheel and the lead guy starts sprinting. I stay with him until the guy in third starts coming around me. Then I sprinted in earnest and passed both of them for...

...24th place. :p

What a waste...

Last weekend I did two criteriums on Sunday: 45+ and Cat 3. The 45+ race was faster and I was pack fodder for both of them; felt kind of flat in both races. I think I was the second oldest racer in the Cat 3 race.

This week's Tuesday night world championships we had a big crash in the 40+ race. I was at the front at the time and we lost at least 1/3 of the field from crashing or getting stuck behind the crash. I was in a bunch of attacks off the front throughout the race and was in a break on the last lap. We got caught at turn 4 but I somehow managed enough of a sprint to get 9th.

Tomorrow is another crit, the Brentwood Grand Prix. (Yes, Brentwood, like where OJ had his problems.) I got dropped last year so the big effort will be to stay in the pack this year.

I have to double-check my schedule but I'll probably be volunteering at least on evening for the Elite National track Championships. Maybe I'll get a chance to watch Hermes and/or Velo Diva race.

Ugh, after posting this morning I had my first road crash in something like 25 years (at least 22 years ;) ). I haven't publicized how long it's been because I am somewhat superstitious :D, but now the streak is broken.

Short story is I rode through some water, thought I was going slow enough when I turned left, bike slid out from under me, left cheekbone hit the pavement pretty hard. :( After a trip to the emergency room with my wife, a chest x-ray and a CAT scan of my head, the verdict is some small displacement fractures of my orbital. I'll be off my bike for a few days but possibly a week or longer. I'll have to wait to get a verdict from some specialists next week.

Not the best way to prepare for nationals.

Hi Cleave: I read your FB post and my heart sunk. I am sure you will make a complete recovery. You can probably get on the trainer and just avoid risk for another fall for a few days.

Oh, no, Cleave! I am so sorry to hear that!!! Your crash and injuries sound eerily similar to mine. Listen, don't do what I did and get on the bike too soon. Give your body time to heal. Those orbital fractures are painful, and can persist. You might see if you can get a regimen of torodol, it's great stuff. For now - REST!

Sorry to hear of your bad luck Cleve. Sometimes a few day off the bike let's one come back stronger. I hope you can still make it to Bend this year. I did the nationals 55-59 races last year and it was an awesome experiance. My coach is encouraging me to do the races again next year as the following year I age up to Hermes group.

I had my won bit of bad luck on Friday and Saturday. We are in the cross over season between road racing and cross racing in NE Ohio. Mtb season is in mid season. A lot of cyclo cross racers also use mtb riding to hone the technical skills. I've been out on the mtb about 4 times recently including a practice mtb TT last Tuesday evening. On Friday I met a buddy at the same venue to do 2 laps of the course as he preps for Sunday's real mtb TT. The day was corrupted from the get go as I discovered a flat tire just as we were noodling in the parking lot. Then 1/2 way around the course I shifted going up a steep bank and snapped the chain. We walked out to a road and Jeff rode back to the parking lot while I held onto the back of his seat. Once I fixed the chain by putting a "quick link" on it were resumed our ride. There is an elevated foot bridge the mtb trail shares with a hiking trail. The stair way is 3' wide and is split with a steep ramp on one side and 3 or 4 stairs on the other half. For whatever reason when I got to the top of the ramp I rode into the metal railing and really hit my rib cage hard. Stopping as fast as I did also allowed me to fall over the edge of the bridge into the creek. I got myself/bike back together and finished the ride with a bit of hurting in my ribs. Friday evening didn't produce any significant pain and I brushed it off and made plans to meet my son on Saturday morning at Mohican State Park to do a 3 hr mtb ride with him.

The park is mid-way between Columbus, where he lives, and my home. The 24 mile loop begins with a climb and I was able to keep with him up the climb with no major discomfort from Friday's fall. On top of the first hill there is some technical spots that include log piles that you ride over. On one of the log piles, just as I was reaching it I hit a rock with my pedal, and lost momentum, and at the top of the log pile I fell over onto my rib cage the same place that I hit the day before. This time it really hurt. For the next 2+ hours the pain just got worse. I couldn't wait to finish the ride as it wasn't any fun even though I was riding with my son.

I don't think I broke any ribs. The pain is located in the connective tissues and any time I have to clear my throat or cough the pain level goes through the roof. This AM I located some Vicodin pills left from my ankle surgery which is helping a lot. Mountain biking is crazy fun and I hope to be able to continue riding and be confident. I do realize that the crashes were both slow speed and to an extent preventable. On a positive side, this is a recovery week from training and I'm not missing any riding.:lol:

I had my won bit of bad luck on Friday and Saturday. We are in the cross over season between road racing and cross racing in NE Ohio. Mtb season is in mid season. A lot of cyclo cross racers also use mtb riding to hone the technical skills. I've been out on the mtb about 4 times recently including a practice mtb TT last Tuesday evening. On Friday I met a buddy at the same venue to do 2 laps of the course as he preps for Sunday's real mtb TT. The day was corrupted from the get go as I discovered a flat tire just as we were noodling in the parking lot. Then 1/2 way around the course I shifted going up a steep bank and snapped the chain. We walked out to a road and Jeff rode back to the parking lot while I held onto the back of his seat. Once I fixed the chain by putting a "quick link" on it were resumed our ride. There is an elevated foot bridge the mtb trail shares with a hiking trail. The stair way is 3' wide and is split with a steep ramp on one side and 3 or 4 stairs on the other half. For whatever reason when I got to the top of the ramp I rode into the metal railing and really hit my rib cage hard. Stopping as fast as I did also allowed me to fall over the edge of the bridge into the creek. I got myself/bike back together and finished the ride with a bit of hurting in my ribs. Friday evening didn't produce any significant pain and I brushed it off and made plans to meet my son on Saturday morning at Mohican State Park to do a 3 hr mtb ride with him.

The park is mid-way between Columbus, where he lives, and my home. The 24 mile loop begins with a climb and I was able to keep with him up the climb with no major discomfort from Friday's fall. On top of the first hill there is some technical spots that include log piles that you ride over. On one of the log piles, just as I was reaching it I hit a rock with my pedal, and lost momentum, and at the top of the log pile I fell over onto my rib cage the same place that I hit the day before. This time it really hurt. For the next 2+ hours the pain just got worse. I couldn't wait to finish the ride as it wasn't any fun even though I was riding with my son.

I don't think I broke any ribs. The pain is located in the connective tissues and any time I have to clear my throat or cough the pain level goes through the roof. This AM I located some Vicodin pills left from my ankle surgery which is helping a lot. Mountain biking is crazy fun and I hope to be able to continue riding and be confident. I do realize that the crashes were both slow speed and to an extent preventable. On a positive side, this is a recovery week from training and I'm not missing any riding.:lol:

AJ, I hope you're okay....

I think this crashing thing is going around - be careful, you guys!!!

AJ, I hope you're okay....

I think this crashing thing is going around - be careful, you guys!!!

Didn't you start it?

Everyone is dropping like flies. I may have to stop riding for a month to avoid the jinx.

AJ, have you had cracked ribs before? What you describe is pretty much what they feel like. This may sound masochistic, but can you push any of the ribs in? I've cracked ribs twice, and the first time (getting hit in an unarmored spot by a heavy rattan two-handed sword) I could run my hand down my ribs and one of them (where it hurt most) would give from the pressure. Biggest, darkest, most amazing bruise of my life. I stopped the 'hardsuit' fighting because the bruises would no longer heal before a new one got layered on top.

My only bad news is that I aborted my FTP test yesterday. I just didn't have it, mostly from lack of sleep the night before due to something I ate. So that ride became easy base with a 5 minute all out effort in the middle. I did more base this morning, mostly at tempo. Got home exhausted, and really, really, really hot!

We need to open a 50+ recovery ward.

Cleave, I hope it doesn't keep you out of Nationals!

AZT,

The sore rib/ribs are the lowest ones on my right front. I can depress the rib somewhat more than it's twin on the other side. I'm thinking the vicodin and a few beers have allowed me to do the test flex without going to my knees. Possibly it's cracked or just weakened a little bit.;) Once while playing 35+ basketball I was watching a foul shot with my hands on my knees and I coughed resulting in pulling something between the ribs. That took a few months to heal up. I hope this incident heals up quicker.

I played football during my senior year in college and ran back kicks and punts and got hit pretty hard many times. I never came away from a game feeling like I do today.

Don't feel bad about aborting the test. There is always next time.

AJ, Sorry about the ribs. It always makes sense to get that kind of pain checked out.

AZT, Tests... There is always another day. Humans are not like the 60s muscle cars where all you have to do is step on the gas an pour more fuel through the engine to make power.

I got in about 4 1/2 hours of endurance riding over the weekend as a precurser to another build cycle. This featured a lot of z3 power intervals. I was surprised yesterday that I felt strong at the end of my 3 hour ride. Who thought 40 second power would be worth so much. My next race is in two weeks.

After smacking the pavement and then hearing these stories it adds further to my amazement of watching contact sports like football (and hockey). After seeing some of those "hits", and equating them to mine and what you describe, it's a wonder those kids get up at all! It is NOT a wonder that they develop all sorts of physical ailments later in life.

Hey, you guys - please be careful!

Hi All,

Thanks for the words of encouragement. Just got back from my regular doctor and he said no racing for 6 weeks (until the bone heals). Nationals are in 4 weeks. I have a CT scan scheduled for 11 days from now (approximately 2 weeks after the crash). I am hoping that the CT scan will show that I am healing quicker than the average person. He also said no hard training for 2 weeks. So instead of tapering, I may be building. ;)

AJ, just be sure that your rib are not actually broken (which it sounds like the aren't) because a punctured lung is a very bad thing.

After resting for 2 days my weight is down 1.5 lbs. I am guessing that some of that is water but I am also guessing that I needed the rest. I really don't get enough sleep trying to keep all of balls in the air. I've read more than once that resting is as important as training. I will probably do some spinning on the trainer tomorrow. BTW, it turns out that my helmet hit relatively hard too on the side just above my cheekbone.

Next stop is the dentist to make sure that the fracture didn't affect any teeth roots. :(

Sorry to read about the crashes and injuries. So much pain and suckage.

However, I'm glad to read about the speedy recovery you crashtistas are experiencing; that's encouraging. Keep up the good healing.

Sorry to read about the crashes and injuries. So much pain and suckage.

However, I'm glad to read about the speedy recovery you crashtistas are experiencing; that's encouraging. Keep up the good healing.

Yeup! Tomorrow I'm going running for the first time in three weeks. The hematoma is just fluid, not blood, and will absorb slowly - no need to intervene (whew). I've lost the ten pounds I gained (edema swelling), and it's time. It's time!

Cleave - rest is wonderful thing, and obeying your doctor is a smart thing - I know of what I speak, because I didn't and it set me back.

Once again guys - be careful!

Huggin' ya, RR!!

Hi folks. I wasn't around the forums much in the early part of this year so I have only just realised this sub-forum existed.

Anyway, I'm interested to have found it. I have the opportunity to retire early - not far short of my 57th birthday - so I'm going to have time to train properly and am thinking that maybe, next year, I might try racing. We call them veterans races, I guess that is masters racing in your language. Whether that proves practicable is an open question, because not many of those races happen in my area and I don't know whether I'll want to travel significant distances regularly in order to race. Whatever, if I train for racing that will at least give me the opportunity to choose when the time comes...

So, advice please. I'm 6'3" and about 204 lbs. That's about 20lbs above my fighting weight, so obviously that has to go. I'm used to high mileage and am a decent rouleur, even (despite my weight) holding my own with a lot of the younger guys on the climbs. I couldn't sprint out of sight on a dark night, though. So, basically, I'm very fit for an old fat guy but have no real top-end speed. I'm used to training with HR but have not much idea about power and am dubious about spending the power meter money at this stage.

I'm thinking mainly LSD in HR zones 2 (mainly) and 3. Once a week include a Z4 section, maybe 6x 2minutes plus recovery, mainly in the hills. Plus once a week the full-on Z5 intervals, 5x30 seconds rising to 5x90 seconds when I can hack it. About 15 hours per week total training volume.

Sound sensible?

Hi chasm54,

Missed this on Saturday. I was somewhat distracted that day. ;)

I think that what you've outlined is sensible for building fitness. I only train by HR because I am kind of old-fashioned and cheap. :D 15 hours per week of training is more than I generally do but I do have a lot of continuous fitness and base from racing year-to-year.

I am not intimately familiar with racing in the UK but it seems that local laws make it difficult to conduct road races and criteriums. From what I've read, time trial are more frequent. With your physique I would guess that time trials might be right up your alley (American slang for you should be good at it).

Anyway, I'd advise finding some veteran racers (and they were veterans in the US until around 1990) in your area to better understand your local racing scene.

Good luck with your potential journey as a bike racer.

Yeup! Tomorrow I'm going running for the first time in three weeks. The hematoma is just fluid, not blood, and will absorb slowly - no need to intervene (whew). I've lost the ten pounds I gained (edema swelling), and it's time. It's time!

Cleave - rest is wonderful thing, and obeying your doctor is a smart thing - I know of what I speak, because I didn't and it set me back.

Once again guys - be careful!

Huggin' ya, RR!!

Love your enthusiasm, Sara, as well as the good news you share. Keep up the great healing!

My next event is the 10 mi. TT practice this Wed. SW winds will prevail; I may take a later time so I have less wind to fight. OTOH I have a TT bike that slices through the wind like a scimitar. So maybe I'll split the difference. Depends on the day. Report to follow.

Hi chasm54,

Missed this on Saturday. I was somewhat distracted that day. ;)

I think that what you've outlined is sensible for building fitness. I only train by HR because I am kind of old-fashioned and cheap. :D 15 hours per week of training is more than I generally do but I do have a lot of continuous fitness and base from racing year-to-year.

I am not intimately familiar with racing in the UK but it seems that local laws make it difficult to conduct road races and criteriums. From what I've read, time trial are more frequent. With your physique I would guess that time trials might be right up your alley (American slang for you should be good at it).

Anyway, I'd advise finding some veteran racers (and they were veterans in the US until around 1990) in your area to better understand your local racing scene.

Good luck with your potential journey as a bike racer.

Thanks. Nice of you to bother when you have your own problems!

Yes, there is a league of veteran racing cyclists. They run crits and road races on a regional basis. They aren't frequent in my region - hence my thinking that I'd have to travel to race regularly - but they do happen. As for TTs, there's a couple of local clubs - I used to belong to one of them - that run weekly TTs during the summer. I may hook up with them again.

Thanks for the comments on the training, I'll get to it.

Thanks, RR!

I'm easing back into it. I ran for the first time in three weeks this morning, out on the rec trail at 0530. OMG, I missed that - the cool darkness, the quiet, the other runners....but I'm back out there with them. I ran an easy 10 min/mile pace, and ran EXACTLY two miles. When the GPS called off two miles, I stopped, and started walking. My core fitness is still there. Max HR was 156, avg was 136, and I recovered to below 100 in less than two minutes. I did feel a little light headed, and I had little power. However, there was no unusual pain, swelling, or redness anywhere. My ribs were a little sore when I took the deeper breaths, but the hip was just fine. All in all, I felt really good, but at two miles I felt like I usually do at seven miles! I'll get it back.

I'm going to see my doctor before I run again, which will be Friday. I want him to "sign me off", if he feels he can.

Tomorrow, swim - first time in four weeks.

Friday - bike - first time in two weeks.

Easing back to it! And I mean "ease". I won't push, stress, or risk having to "sit down" again. If I've learned anything through this, it's that I am mortal after all. And, not young (that one sucked)!

Hey, chasm 54, welcome! I'm sorry to hear for the violence in the UK right now. I hope it doesn't affect you.

Please keep us appraised of your progress!!!

Hi folks. I wasn't around the forums much in the early part of this year so I have only just realised this sub-forum existed.

Anyway, I'm interested to have found it. I have the opportunity to retire early - not far short of my 57th birthday - so I'm going to have time to train properly and am thinking that maybe, next year, I might try racing. We call them veterans races, I guess that is masters racing in your language. Whether that proves practicable is an open question, because not many of those races happen in my area and I don't know whether I'll want to travel significant distances regularly in order to race. Whatever, if I train for racing that will at least give me the opportunity to choose when the time comes...

So, advice please. I'm 6'3" and about 204 lbs. That's about 20lbs above my fighting weight, so obviously that has to go. I'm used to high mileage and am a decent rouleur, even (despite my weight) holding my own with a lot of the younger guys on the climbs. I couldn't sprint out of sight on a dark night, though. So, basically, I'm very fit for an old fat guy but have no real top-end speed. I'm used to training with HR but have not much idea about power and am dubious about spending the power meter money at this stage.

I'm thinking mainly LSD in HR zones 2 (mainly) and 3. Once a week include a Z4 section, maybe 6x 2minutes plus recovery, mainly in the hills. Plus once a week the full-on Z5 intervals, 5x30 seconds rising to 5x90 seconds when I can hack it. About 15 hours per week total training volume.

Sound sensible?

Hi Chasm54 - great to have you here.

I'd recommend you do some browsing on Joe Friel's blog, and/or pick up his book on HR based training: http://joefriel.typepad.com/blog/

If you are looking at rebuilding base, with no specific race targeted, then I think you are on the right track, but with a couple of caveats. Friel stresses that there is very little benefit provided by spending a lot of time in Zone 3, that isn't also provided by Zone 2, which you can do for much longer. Whether using power or HR, most people believe in a "U" shaped distribution across the zones. In other words, lots of LSD (HR z2), balanced by time in the higher zones (HR z4-5), with very little of what is in between (HR z3). You are going to have time in z1 whether you want it or not, because we are all frequently ramping up from a stop. The same is true for z2, and, to a lesser extent, z3. So, as you are doing your z2 work, I'd try and stay towards the top of that zone, because otherwise, you'll find your averages are down close to z1.

As you know, you also want to layer in some higher intensity. I'd skip HR z3 for the reasons stated, and go up to z4. This has two benefits. One is the specific conditioning you get there, and the other is that this puts you at a fast pace. One of the downsides of lots of LSD, at least for me, is it gets so that base speed is your "groove". It's comfortable, and you can go forever... but... it isn't fast. So you get used to not going fast. Layering in z4, even when doing base, gets you used to going fast. You develop a "tempo groove" on top of your "endurance groove". Doing group rides also does this, and may put you in that great z4 range. I'd increase duration of the z4 intervals you described as soon as you can handle it.

I don't know whether it is the humid heat we've been having, nutrition issues, the wrong workouts, or what, but my 'power at endurance' is totally kaput right now. I fade way sooner than I should. I did 6 minute hills this morning at 325w (~5' rest intervals), and faded doing the third rep.

Hi Chasm54 - great to have you here.

I'd recommend you do some browsing on Joe Friel's blog, and/or pick up his book on HR based training: http://joefriel.typepad.com/blog/

.

Thanks. I read Friel's training bible years ago, I'll certainly look at his blog. And thanks also for your other suggestions. I know exactly what you mean about a "tempo groove", probably the fastest progress I ever made was when I used to do regular one- hour sessions at close to threshold. And I can probably already do better than 6x2minute z4 intervals - just being lazy. I'll report back in due course.

Sarals thank you also. No, I'm not affected by our current orgy of looting. Except for my hypertension, that is. LOL

Back to the track this morning after receiving and assembling my bike from the shipper. The bike and wheels came through fine. I used the freight forward company on the USA cycling website. They did an excellent job of managing the transport.

I started with the 40 lap warmup and did a couple of 100 meter jumps. My wife and I did a routine where we rode z2 for 1 lap and then accelerated through z3 and z4 and did 100 meters at bridging power. We did a bunch of these. I then lead out my wife for a flying one lap and she finished with another lap holding pace. I did a flying 100 meter and a flying 200 meters. That may not seem like a lot but I am tired.

AZT, According to my former coach, one has about 6 months of concerted training and that is it. After 6 months, one needs a break. Last year, I started racing in January and peaked in July. After July, nothing I did improved my performance and in fact it decreased over time. YMMV

Also, I think the z2 and z3 offering the same benefit and therefor only do z2 and z4 is old thinking. Long sustained z3 right below threshold power is called the sweet spot. It offer significant benefit and pushes up z4. And you can do more of it than doing z4. I do a lot of 10 minute plus z3+ power intervals. I find them hard since I keep the power at the top end of z3.

I find Friel frustrating. I read in one of his recent blog posts or tweets that periodization works best for accomplished cyclists since it relies on muscles and cardio retaining infrastructure as one does base. For less experienced cyclists, without some z4 and z5, the top end decays and one has to rebuild again. So I find him all over the place on training advice. I think sustained z3 SST intervals are great for me. I think they offer a lot of bang for the time invested. I like to couple those with high intensity work.

When you say z3, Hermes, you are referring to power zones, right? I think that a high z3, SST type effort pushes most people into z4 HR, doesn't it? I believe it does for me, but I'm so focused on my power these days I could be wrong. Plus my power zones may be overstated (especially lately!), while I know my HR zones aren't, and that would skew things and push me ino the higher HR zone. I agree that z3 power work is definitely where you want to be, and I was trying to translate that into HR.

I find Friel frustrating.

He does a lot of riding around here in winter - people say he is a real wheel sucker. :lol:

AZT, I find my HR zones and power zones are close as long as the temperature is within reason. If I'm riding at upper Z3 power after about 15-20 minutes my HR will reach the same Z3. On shorter Z4 and Z5+ power efforts the HR seldom reaches the effort level unless I'm doing somthing intense like 3 X 15 sec sprint intervals i.e. 15" OTS, 15" seated @ 28- 30+ mph, 15" easy spin, then repeat... by the 5th or 6th rep my HR is well into Z5. On 2 mile Z5b intervals, I will not hit a Z4 HR until 2+ minutes in then Z5 near the end for 30" or so. I used to train using HR exclusively and did not allow for the HR to come up to match the effort. I can now think back to doing some low cadence Z4 hills that were a complete failure due to my attempting to reach Z4 HR right after the start. I needed to produce mega watts to get the HR up then had to deal with the lactate during the interval.

My coach also has me riding in mid to upper Z3 intervals frequently during the season. In road races that seems to be the average pace,

I have not worn my HR monitor for about a year. When I first got my power meter, I did some comparisons and found that the HR sort of followed the power as long as I selected a cadence that was familiar. Lower cadence does not raise my HR enough to match the power. I also noted that when cresting a hill at z4 or z5 power, my HR would stay up but the power would drop precipitously unless I shifted into a bigger gear and really killed it.

My wife and I have specific routes and sections of road where 10 minute plus z3 and z4 power efforts are more feasible due to the terrain and traffic conditions. And we have a TT course which is flat to rolling terrain which is perfect for any amount of power intervals you want.

It is easy for me to hit a z3 power effort for 10 minutes plus and hit the average power that I am targeting within 5 watts. Of course, if you target z4 power less 10 watts, you will go into z4 power zone from time to time. I used the Coggan Power Zones to define z1 - z6.

I do not see how it is feasible to train at z2 and race for 3 hours at z3 average power with some z4, z5 z6 and z7 efforts mixed in every few minutes.

Hmm... this is getting interesting. I looked at some data from recent rides, trying to find some high z3 sections, to see where my HR was. When I'm up close to threshold for any length of time, my HR definitely climbs up into z4 range. My FTP is 275. My MHR is around 185, and I have HR zones from a metabolic test, built around my Lactate Threshold. The zones ranges are from the Australia Institute of Sport, which has done a lot of the research used by a variety of people. Here are some data points:

Avg Watts....Avg HR.........HR Zone
.....250...........150........z3 (147-155)
.....265...........158........z4 (156-164)
.....274...........161........z4 (156-164)
.....280...........168.......z5a (165-173)

I'm listening - this is an intriguing read, you guys!

AZT, There is a simple answer. Your FTP is probably overstated which is not uncommon. And it is not that important so do not take it wrong. FTP is a guide and not an exact science. Maintaining constant power for 1 hour is a very tough standard. My FTP is based upon TTs and long hill climbs. It is probably lower since I am doing so much track.

In Armstrong's War, Dr. Evil (I like that nickname) performed a field test on Lance using lancets to draw blood and analyzed the blood in a portable meter and noted Lances power on that climb. Lance kept doing repeats on the same hill increasing power each climb. He plotted power versus lactate.