Masters Racing (All Disciplines) - Just hanging out shooting the bull

Moderators Note from Racer EX:

Welcome to what was the stand alone 50+ racing sticky.

DnvrFox was good enough to start this thread which has morphed into a sub forum for masters racers.

There's a lot of training and other racing information in here, please feel free to use the search function for something in particular or just enjoy the general banter.

Like you- I am not into racing and only did a bit in the past.

But there are sufficient 50+ers that do enjoy this form of masochism to be able to pass on their racing/training tips.

Works for me!

I couldn't find the "Yes" option on the poll.:D Would known dopers like The Weak Link be banned?

I couldn't find the "Yes" option on the poll.:D Would known dopers like The Weak Link be banned?

I wouldn't want to get a reputation for writing polls. Doesn't everyone who races bikes dope? And those that don't race? Personally, I dope with OJ.

Doesn't everyone who races bikes dope?

I didn't dope when I ran track in college when many others did. Maybe I'm spending my $ on the wrong things?:D

I didn't dope when I ran track in college when many others did. Maybe I'm spending my $ on the wrong things?:D

Did you win? I still prefer OJ - and it is not found by drug tests!

Did you win? I still prefer OJ - and it is not found by drug tests!

Never won. I was 5th, 2nd and 3rd at NCAA National Champs, close but no cigars. I'll have to try the OJ.

Now-a-days I do things like this in lieu of doping :lol:: http://www.xtranormal.com/watch/8195197/

Now-a-days I do things like this in lieu of doping :lol:: http://www.xtranormal.com/watch/8195197/

Your best yet, Jet. Watched it all the way through a second time and laughed just as hard.

""You are 57 years old. Grow up. Are you stupid?" :roflmao:

Your best yet, Jet. Watched it all the way through a second time and laughed just as hard.

""You are 57 years old. Grow up. Are you stupid?" :roflmao:

Too much of that movie is based on real life action.;)

I think it's a great idea. I just started racing this year, at 62, and have a lot to learn. So here's the first serious training/racing question in this thread: At our age how many hard (LT and above) workouts a week do you experienced racers do at this time of year? (Assuming your racing season is still 3 months or more in the future)

Never won. I was 5th, 2nd and 3rd at NCAA National Champs, close but no cigars. I'll have to try the OJ.

Now-a-days I do things like this in lieu of doping :lol:: http://www.xtranormal.com/watch/8195197/

That was a great movie and may be your best.

I just returned from a trip to Los Angeles to drop off some track bikes and train at Los Angeles Velodrome in Carson, CA. I had a great time at the sessions and had the opportunity to ride with Cleave, meet a couple more of his team members and see some friends. Both sessions were run by Roger Young which consisted of 2 intervals with (4x1 minute at z2, z3, z4, z3, z2 z1) and a 50 lap motor pacing session.

Thanks DF, I don't race,but I wish I could. I like reading about the old guys giving it all they got, for the love of the sport.

I think it's a great idea. I just started racing this year, at 62, and have a lot to learn. So here's the first serious training/racing question in this thread: At our age how many hard (LT and above) workouts a week do you experienced racers do at this time of year? (Assuming your racing season is still 3 months or more in the future)

Our season starts tomorrow, January 1 with the hill climb up Mount San Bruno. I did the race last year but not this year. I am not doing much intensity right now and focusing on strength, core and endurance. However, some z4 and higher, IMO, is okay right now.

I think it's a great idea. I just started racing this year, at 62, and have a lot to learn. So here's the first serious training/racing question in this thread: At our age how many hard (LT and above) workouts a week do you experienced racers do at this time of year? (Assuming your racing season is still 3 months or more in the future)

Right now, I am barred from anything above z3, by my coach, who Hermes has given the title She Who Must Be Obeyed. I think mine is a more extreme limitation than most coaches use in the base period, but this is my first season, and I had been going hard in the past without ever having built any kind of base. I've only been on a road bike since last March, so I think you'd characterize what I'm doing now as taking basic algebra in college, after having ditched math in high school.

Today, as a New Year's gift from SWMBO, I was supposed to be able to ride with my group, for the first hour of the Sat ride, going just hard enough to keep from being dropped, then go off by myself for another 3 hours. But I got a new seat to relieve perineal distress, was installing it, and I broke the bolt in my seat post clamp with my gargantuan strength. I was trying to make sure my 210# body didn't cause it to self-adjust. Grrrrrr. I got a bolt that will work temporarily at Lowe's this morning, but it means I'll be doing my 4 hour base ride today alone, and only in zones 1-3. Hopefully with a seat below me the whole time.

So here's the first serious training/racing question in this thread: At our age how many hard (LT and above) workouts a week do you experienced racers do at this time of year? (Assuming your racing season is still 3 months or more in the future)

My racing season will begin in April. I may do several races in March and early April but will use them as training efforts. Even when the racing season begins most of the races will be training races where I work on some specific part of racing. For instance, in a local circuit race I may ride the Cat 4 race as a warmup sitting in until the final sprint, then 45 minutes later I'll race with the Masters and work as a team with some or our Cat 3 guys who are 35+ yrs.

Currently I'm beginning the 2nd month of base and not doing any sustained Z4 riding. Most of my road or mtb rides are designed to have an extended Z3 effort of 1.5 hrs+. As the season goes on the weekly Z3 efforts will be increased to 2.5 hrs. I suspect my coach will start to prescribe some Z4 overgear hill intervals sometime this month. Z5 hills and other Z5 intervals are not part of the training until the racing begins due to the length of the season. As the racing season progresses the workouts are shorter with more and more Z4 intervals, Z5 hills and sprint work. I am best at sprinting in crits and circuit races and the workouts are made to take advantage of the strengths and improve weaknesses.

I do attend a twice a week 2 hr indoor training class that focuses on high cadence, over gear and isolated leg exercises. We do have some drills and intervals in the class that will take us into Z4 and even some short sprint efforts that are at a Z5 effort. We also do a lactate tempo ladder that hurts like hell every time that takes the HR to the bottom of Z5 at the end. In that drill we ride in the 53/23 @ 100 rpm for the first 55 seconds then 5 seconds @ 120 rpm. The drill is constant and every minute we drop 5 seconds of the 100 cadence and add 5 seconds to the 120 cadence eventually working to 0 seconds @ 100 and 60 seconds @ 120 rpm. That drill will open your lungs and burn the legs like a race will.

Allegheny, AZ thanks for the replies. As a newbie I'm trying to figure out a cycling plan to get me in shape first for some late April through early June races, then again for a Columbus Day race. There'll be one or two in between but those wouldn't be "A" races.

Allegheny, I'm in awe at your college running accomplishments. I started running at 30 and continued through my mid 40s. I eventually figured out a yearly progression that worked for me, but it was sort of the opposite of what most people who write on cycling, like Joe Friel, recommend. I focused on short races first, doing just enough distance to handle the fast tempo runs and intervals necessary to train for 1 to 5 mile races, then around July I started to stretch that speed out for half marathons and a marathon. Even though it's now been a while since I was a runner it's hard for me to the "get fast then get long" template out of my mind when I think about the bike. It just seems natural to do a couple hard workouts a week even though it's only early winter.

I'm indoors almost exclusively since I'm in Massachussets. In general I'm doing one longish z5a session, at LT HR for 50 to 60 minutes straight; one interval set that at points gets to z5b (in the Joe Friel/Gale Bernhardt nomenclature); and one longish z3 workout, now at about 2 to 2.5 hours each week. The other days are z1/z2 recovery at an hour or less. I do a couple weeks like that then take an easier week with maybe one hard session, maybe none, then start the three week cycle again. Each cycle the z3 day gets a little longer as do some of the z1/z2 days and I try to get the over the ground speed of the long z5a day up just a bit while keeping HR at LT, but that doesn't always work.

If I understand your lactate tempo effort you're going 12 minutes straight, no interval, building to 60 seconds at 120rpm. Yeah, I can see that's a bit intense in least few minutes. That's the kind of "base building" that makes sense to me.

Thanks again to both of you, and if our zone designations aren't in sync please let me know.

So here's the first serious training/racing question in this thread: At our age how many hard (LT and above) workouts a week do you experienced racers do at this time of year? (Assuming your racing season is still 3 months or more in the future)


I am not doing much intensity right now and focusing on strength, core and endurance. However, some z4 and higher, IMO, is okay right now.


Currently I'm beginning the 2nd month of base and not doing any sustained Z4 riding. Most of my road or mtb rides are designed to have an extended Z3 effort of 1.5 hrs+. As the season goes on the weekly Z3 efforts will be increased to 2.5 hrs. I suspect my coach will start to prescribe some Z4 overgear hill intervals sometime this month. Z5 hills and other Z5 intervals are not part of the training until the racing begins due to the length of the season. As the racing season progresses the workouts are shorter with more and more Z4 intervals, Z5 hills and sprint work.

I do attend a twice a week 2 hr indoor training class that focuses on high cadence, over gear and isolated leg exercises. We do have some drills and intervals in the class that will take us into Z4 and even some short sprint efforts that are at a Z5 effort. We also do a lactate tempo ladder that hurts like hell every time that takes the HR to the bottom of Z5 at the end. In that drill we ride in the 53/23 @ 100 rpm for the first 55 seconds then 5 seconds @ 120 rpm. The drill is constant and every minute we drop 5 seconds of the 100 cadence and add 5 seconds to the 120 cadence eventually working to 0 seconds @ 100 and 60 seconds @ 120 rpm. That drill will open your lungs and burn the legs like a race will.

Hi milmo,

The short answer in none (at least intentionally). My zone training is based on heart rate and for me zone 4 (around LT) starts at 159 bpm. I set an artificial "redline" of 155 bpm when I'm on the road. (When I'm on the track I don't have time to look at my computer.)

For example, on my 70 mile New Year's Day ride with clubmates (some of whom race), I had zero mile in zone 4. My track workout last Thursday had 35 seconds in zone 4. This time of year is pretty much base miles with a focus on leg speed and good pedaling technique.

BTW, my first races will be this month, but I don't race seriously until late March. Then the real fun begins. ;)

Allegheny, AZ thanks for the replies. As a newbie I'm trying to figure out a cycling plan to get me in shape first for some late April through early June races, then again for a Columbus Day race. There'll be one or two in between but those wouldn't be "A" races.

Allegheny, I'm in awe at your college running accomplishments. I started running at 30 and continued through my mid 40s. I eventually figured out a yearly progression that worked for me, but it was sort of the opposite of what most people who write on cycling, like Joe Friel, recommend. I focused on short races first, doing just enough distance to handle the fast tempo runs and intervals necessary to train for 1 to 5 mile races, then around July I started to stretch that speed out for half marathons and a marathon. Even though it's now been a while since I was a runner it's hard for me to the "get fast then get long" template out of my mind when I think about the bike. It just seems natural to do a couple hard workouts a week even though it's only early winter.

I'm indoors almost exclusively since I'm in Massachussets. In general I'm doing one longish z5a session, at LT HR for 50 to 60 minutes straight; one interval set that at points gets to z5b (in the Joe Friel/Gale Bernhardt nomenclature); and one longish z3 workout, now at about 2 to 2.5 hours each week. The other days are z1/z2 recovery at an hour or less. I do a couple weeks like that then take an easier week with maybe one hard session, maybe none, then start the three week cycle again. Each cycle the z3 day gets a little longer as do some of the z1/z2 days and I try to get the over the ground speed of the long z5a day up just a bit while keeping HR at LT, but that doesn't always work.

If I understand your lactate tempo effort you're going 12 minutes straight, no interval, building to 60 seconds at 120rpm. Yeah, I can see that's a bit intense in least few minutes. That's the kind of "base building" that makes sense to me.

Thanks again to both of you, and if our zone designations aren't in sync please let me know.

My event in college was the decathlon with the longest event taking around 4.5 minutes. Bicycle racing is much different since there is no resting between events which is why we need to train differently. In a crit I may have to do 10 to 20 really hard efforts over the 45 minute race then let it all out out in the sprint. Compared to running a crit is a 10K run at tempo with attacks that you must respond to then save enough of yourself to be able to run an all out 300m to the finish. Training for cycling races needs to take into account the type of racing you will do. For me it's crits, circuit races and road races.

Your workouts seem a little heavy on the hard stuff for this early in your season. I don't see any technique work in your schedule. Here is my workout for this week the first week in the newest cycle:

Monday, 1-3: AM: Bike – Rollers. WU in the little ring for 15 min to a low Z3 HR, this by dropping down a cog every 3-5 min and holding the same cadence. Main set is a long OG where you’re holding great form with NO bobbing or weaving from side to side. Do this OG for 45 min solid, changing hand positions from tops, hoods, drops and no handed. When no handed try to remain nice and still. You can even hold your hands behind your back like a speed skater. Do several min per hand position. WD 15 min doing the reverse of the WU. Resistance – Group 1.

Tuesday, 1-4: Bike – Outside for 2 hrs total. Main set is 1:25 hrs Z3 CT smooth and steady. The rest is Z2 WU and WD. Resistance – Group 2.

Wednesday, 1-5: Resistance – Group 3. Bike – Excel In Cycling indoor class.

Thursday, 1-6: Resistance – Group 4.

Friday, 1-7: Bike – Rollers same as Mon.

Saturday, 1-8: Bike – Choice: EIC indoors
.
Sunday, 1-9: Bike – Outside on X or Mt bike for 2.5 hrs total all HC at 95-110rpm.

You got it right that the Lactate tempo drill is 12 minutes. At first you may not be able to go all the way through. Our class started out only going to 20/40 then adding 5 more seconds to the 120 rpm side each class.

Never won. I was 5th, 2nd and 3rd at NCAA National Champs, close but no cigars. I'll have to try the OJ.

Now-a-days I do things like this in lieu of doping :lol:: http://www.xtranormal.com/watch/8195197/
AJ, I just got a chance to watch the video. It is hilarious. :thumb::thumb:

Do you "create" those while riding the rollers or do you create them professionally? Whatever, keep them coming.
BTW, your SO in the video is "hot". ;)

Hi milmo,

The short answer in none (at least intentionally). My zone training is based on heart rate and for me zone 4 (around LT) starts at 159 bpm. I set an artificial "redline" of 155 bpm when I'm on the road. (When I'm on the track I don't have time to look at my computer.)

For example, on my 70 mile New Year's Day ride with clubmates (some of whom race), I had zero mile in zone 4. My track workout last Thursday had 35 seconds in zone 4. This time of year is pretty much base miles with a focus on leg speed and good pedaling technique.

BTW, my first races will be this month, but I don't race seriously until late March. Then the real fun begins. ;)

It was great riding with you at LAV on Tuesday and Thursday. I did the pyramid workout and skipped the motor pacing on Tuesday. On Thursday, I did both. I rode in in Roger's group and my HR, for what it is worth, was 125 to 150. In the 50 lap motor pacing, I was pretty far back in the line so I did not get to the motor until 18 to go. According to my Garmin data, I had 3 minutes of between 160 and 170 bpm. I was using 90.6 gear inches spinning 115 rpm. At the motor, it was hard but I felt fine. It felt like a solid z4. But according to HR data, that would be a z5 or higher for me.

Needless to say, it was a blast and some of those guys are monsters. I do not think they know it is off season. They were all gearing up in the pit for the motor games.

My first race this year will be at LAV in the LAVRA cup.

Thanks, D-Fox. I'll post here whenever I race. Looks like end of Feb., if work doesn't cut into my training.

I did it!, Took the leaf of faith!, Threw caution into the wind!, Just HTFU'ped! Oh man, the ah-haw moment! :thumb:

I finally took my hands off the bar and rode the rollers no-handed. I needed to ride overgear with changes of hand positions that included riding no-handed. I put the rollers in a doorway and moved furniture, covered the floors and put the dog in the laundry room. Did the 15 min. warm up into Z3 as prescribed then started the 45 minute overgear interval. First hand position was drops, then tops, then no-handed and then hoods rotating each position for 3 minutes.

The first 3 minute no-handed interval was dicey at the start when I let the constant cadence and force dip a little. Once I felt like I was flying on my own the 3 minute interval became easy. On later intervals I was able to make a seamless transition to sitting upright with no hands as long as I concentrated on keeping constant force on the pedals.

2011 is starting out as a good year.:D

I did it!, Took the leaf of faith!, Threw caution into the wind!, Just HTFU'ped! Oh man, the ah-haw moment! :thumb:

I finally took my hands off the bar and rode the rollers no-handed. I needed to ride overgear with changes of hand positions that included riding no-handed. I put the rollers in a doorway and moved furniture, covered the floors and put the dog in the laundry room. Did the 15 min. warm up into Z3 as prescribed then started the 45 minute overgear interval. First hand position was drops, then tops, then no-handed and then hoods rotating each position for 3 minutes.

The first 3 minute no-handed interval was dicey at the start when I let the constant cadence and force dip a little. Once I felt like I was flying on my own the 3 minute interval became easy. On later intervals I was able to make a seamless transition to sitting upright with no hands as long as I concentrated on keeping constant force on the pedals.

2011 is starting out as a good year.:D

I would have to bring in movers and have them cover the floors and walls with the padding they use on the truck with an extra layer on the floor for me. Congrats on the no hands.

I did it!, Took the leaf of faith!, Threw caution into the wind!, Just HTFU'ped! Oh man, the ah-haw moment! :thumb:


Nice work. This kind of post may inspire me to get rollers.

Hermes, Cleave, Alleghany, AZ - thanks to all for your replies. Yeah, maybe my training is too much higher intensity right now, I'll cut some of the LT and over stuff back in favor of more aerobic time and cycling specific weight training. My interval session each week always has high cadence spinning (120+) and often one leg drills, but that's about it for technique drills.

So I can better interpret all your workouts would you mind providing a brief "key" as to your HR zone designations, there seem to be a lot of different conventions out there. For example, I use a 7 zone system which designates zones 1 to 4 and 5a, 5b and 5c. LT is the bottom of z5a in this system but for Cleave's it's the bottom of z4. Here's the rest of the system I use:

z1/z2 - below .88 LT HR
z3 - .89 to .93
z4 - .94 to .99
z5b - 1.03 to 1.05
z5c - anything higher

Haven't been to lab to determine LT HR but I've used 4 different methods of estimating it based on various timed efforts and they all point to the range of 156 to 158.

There are different methods for determining zones, and the important thing is to match your workouts to the method you use. For instance, don't use a Friel workout with zones determined using someone else's methods. I had a metabolic test that determined my LT, and I used Friel's book to determine my zones based on that. They differed from the from the zones determined by the metabolic test using methodology from the Australian Institute of Sports, but I planned to use Friel's book to create workouts, and wanted to be consistent. When I hired my coach, she had me redefine my zones in Training Peaks and my computer to match the ones from the metabolic test, as they most precisely matched my metabolism, and because she knows and trusts the guy who did the testing. She is defining my workouts using the zones from the test:

LT = 161 MHR ~179 (Could be a bit higher; not sure)

Zone 1: Recovery...................106-121
Zone 2: Aerobic.....................122-146
Zone 3: Tempo......................147-155
Zone 4: Threshold..................156-164
Zone 5A: Aerobic Capacity ......165-173 (Also called Anaerobic Endurance)
Zone 5B: Power/VO2...............174-174
Zone 5C: Anaerobic Capacity....175-176

Here is Joe Frie's "Quick Guide" from his blog. His book provides a table based on LT.

Bike Zones
Zone 1 Less than 81% of LTHR
Zone 2 81% to 89% of LTHR
Zone 3 90% to 93% of LTHR
Zone 4 94% to 99% of LTHR
Zone 5a 100% to 102% of LTHR
Zone 5b 103% to 106% of LTHR
Zone 5c More than 106% of LTHR

I did it!, Took the leaf of faith!, Threw caution into the wind!, Just HTFU'ped! Oh man, the ah-haw moment! :thumb:

See, your wife's worries were groundless. ;)

Congratulations!

And Jet, you have NO recovery days?

I like the Coggan values developed by (Dr. Andrew Coggan, a renown exercise physiologist who has published a number of cycling-related scientific articles including Training and Racing with a Power Meter and is a National-caliber Masters cyclist himself) defines his power training zones into seven unique levels as follows:

Level 1: Active Recovery, less than 55% of FTP
Level 2: Endurance, 56-75% of FTP
Level 3: Tempo, 76-90% of FTP
Level 4: Threshold, 91-105% of FTP
Level 5: VO2 max, 106-120% of FTP
Level 6: Anaerobic Capacity, 121-150% of FTP
Level 7: Neuromuscular Power, more than 150% of FTP

Below is a link to a table that also shows the Coggan heart rate zones which have slightly different % than the power. FTP is functional threshold power and it is the maximum amount of power one can sustain for one hour. It is a very tough standard. You will note that Coggan does not define a heart rate for levels about z5

http://www.peaksware.com/articles/cycling/power-training-levels,-by-andrew-coggan.aspx

For all the efforts that I do from z3 to z6, I try to hit the minimum power level in the zone and finish the set at the same or better power. It is better to do more intervals within the zone than a couple at the beginning at the high end or even above the power zone and then quit early or have decreasing power that finishes below the zone.

Everyone uses and believes in different guys and zones. Whatever one does on a consistent basis, IMO, will yield results.

I like Coggan's credentials and he is a successful racer who has pushed the training envelope with power training and software so I have standardized on his.

I'm still working my way through his/Allen's book. When I finally pull the trigger on the Quarq, I'll be switching over to using his power zones. I subscribed to Wattage, and it's great seeing folks like him make their expertise available.

Never won. I was 5th, 2nd and 3rd at NCAA National Champs, close but no cigars. I'll have to try the OJ.

Now-a-days I do things like this in lieu of doping :lol:: http://www.xtranormal.com/watch/8195197/

"Ride the pain train"..... I love that! Very good!:lol::lol::lol: (Was watching one of the older videos... the black & white one.)

AJ, I just got a chance to watch the video. It is hilarious. :thumb::thumb:

Do you "create" those while riding the rollers or do you create them professionally? Whatever, keep them coming.
BTW, your SO in the video is "hot". ;)

I couldn't even attempt to think about something else while on the rollers other than keeping the bike upright and hitting my cadence and time.:lol: As for doing it as a profession, I race bikes as my 2nd profession and don't need another job.:thumb:

Thank you for noticing my "hot and fit" wife. My wife also noticed and I got a "good boy".:thumb:

See, your wife's worries were groundless. ;)

Congratulations!

And Jet, you have NO recovery days?

This is my 4th year of training for racing and the 3rd with a coach. Last week was a recovery week and this week is the beginning of the next build cycle. Today's workout is a recovery ride even though I had to warm up into Z3 prior to the 45 minute overgear. My HR in the over gear was high Z2 - low Z3. A year or two ago my Monday workouts would have been 45 minute easy spin. Once the hard work begins, later in the season, I will be doing Monday and Friday rides @ 45 minute easy spin. I do have this Thursday as a rest day from riding.

milmo,

My HR zones are based on an estimated MHR of 173 bpm. My coach and I worked on establishing the max based on some specific efforts and adding a few beats. Using the max my coach established my zones for his training plan. FWIW my zones are:

Z1 < 125
Z2 = 126 - 137
Z3 = 138 - 145
Z4 = 146 - 155
Z5 = 156 and higher

My Powertap wheel-set will be arriving any day and I'll get a slew of new numbers to be my master.

"Ride the pain train"..... I love that! Very good!:lol::lol::lol: (Was watching one of the older videos... the black & white one.)

That would have been the "HTFU workout". Glad you enjoyed it.

I did it!, Took the leaf of faith!, Threw caution into the wind!, Just HTFU'ped! Oh man, the ah-haw moment! :thumb:

I finally took my hands off the bar and rode the rollers no-handed. I needed to ride overgear with changes of hand positions that included riding no-handed. I put the rollers in a doorway and moved furniture, covered the floors and put the dog in the laundry room. Did the 15 min. warm up into Z3 as prescribed then started the 45 minute overgear interval. First hand position was drops, then tops, then no-handed and then hoods rotating each position for 3 minutes.

The first 3 minute no-handed interval was dicey at the start when I let the constant cadence and force dip a little. Once I felt like I was flying on my own the 3 minute interval became easy. On later intervals I was able to make a seamless transition to sitting upright with no hands as long as I concentrated on keeping constant force on the pedals.

2011 is starting out as a good year.:D

I do not race but I do have an Emotion Roller that I bought from Inside Ride out of Oregon last January. I am now on the roller fulltime because you cannot ride outside in North Idaho this time of year. I ride it about 1 hour everyday during the winter. I was wondering can you stand up and sprint on yours? I can on mine because of it's design you cannot ride out of it. I started the no hand thing last week just because I thought it would be fun to try and have also made it part of my workout. The roller has improved my riding form. I said I do not race but that is not entirely true. They hold an Ironman in my town of Coeur d' Alene Idaho in June. I ride the course a couple of times a week. Whenever someone passes me and gets ahead and looks back the race is on! If they just pass and keep going I let them go. I can't stand someone passing me just to pass. I can usually take them on the hills and when I pass I am riding up on my ergos and tell them this is my areo postion. I really like this thread thanks for the info!

We now have a racing and training for racing thread for those 50+, 60+, 70+ or ??80+??!!

Please join in if you have an interest in any type of racing or training for racing. While not my cup of tea, I thoroughly enjoy reading of the exploits of others, their training regimens and successes (no failures here)! So do others.

This is a sticky, so you need to make special checks for new posts, as it will always be in the top four, and will not move around much in the thread queue with new posts.

Enjoy.

Is training that's not for racing in-scope?

I wouldn't want to get a reputation for writing polls. Doesn't everyone who races bikes dope? And those that don't race? Personally, I dope with OJ.

I tried dope, but I didn't win the TdF, so I gave it up.

I am now on the roller fulltime because you cannot ride outside in North Idaho this time of year. I ride it about 1 hour everyday during the winter. I was wondering can you stand up and sprint on yours?

I have the Performance band Travel Trac rollers that cost $129 on sale. In order to stand (ots) I put the bike into the 53/12 to 14 gear and keep my butt over the saddle and grip the bars as lightly as possible. I concentrate on staying on top of the pedals and maintain as smooth a pedal stroke as I can maintain. I found it harder to maintain a cadence faster than 70-75 as the bike starts to go forward/backwards on the rollers. I intend to be able to increase the cadence as the winter moves on and maybe to the point of calling it a sprint.

Is training that's not for racing in-scope?

This will have to be taken up with the "committee". Wait... we do not have one. Well, since all training is good training, I say post away and see what happens. That is like the question should I race. Show up and see what happens is usually provides the best answer.

Edit: We racers reserve the right to comment. One of my former coaches, who coached racers as well as riders who wanted to do events, said, it is okay to be slow but one must look and act like pro.

I certainly didn't qualify as looking pro on this morning's slow commute. We have so little cold weather I haven't invested in winter gear, but it has been reaaly cold lately. So I wore black shoes with red highlights, long green wool socks, knee warmers made from sleeves cut off an old sweatshirt (faded black) tucked into the legs of my black road shorts, a black Under Armor shirt underneath my multi-colored club jersery with enough sleeve hanging out to handle any snot rocket leftovers, Mechanix gloves, helmet and shades. I wanted to violate today's z2 directive just to reduce the time I was at risk of being seen, and I waited until my wife was gone before I 'dressed' and left. Oh, and I forgot to mention the green backpack, which at least matched my socks.

I certainly didn't qualify as looking pro on this morning's slow commute. We have so little cold weather I haven't invested in winter gear, but it has been reaaly cold lately. So I wore black shoes with red highlights, long green wool socks, knee warmers made from sleeves cut off an old sweatshirt (faded black) tucked into the legs of my black road shorts, a black Under Armor shirt underneath my multi-colored club jersery with enough sleeve hanging out to handle any snot rocket leftovers, Mechanix gloves, helmet and shades. I wanted to violate today's z2 directive just to reduce the time I was at risk of being seen, and I waited until my wife was gone before I 'dressed' and left. Oh, and I forgot to mention the green backpack, which at least matched my socks.

In disguise... There are many ways to look like a pro.... The important ones are weight, attitude, spin, posture, position, handling skills and behavior.:thumb:

I have the Performance band Travel Trac rollers that cost $129 on sale. In order to stand (ots) I put the bike into the 53/12 to 14 gear and keep my butt over the saddle and grip the bars as lightly as possible. I concentrate on staying on top of the pedals and maintain as smooth a pedal stroke as I can maintain. I found it harder to maintain a cadence faster than 70-75 as the bike starts to go forward/backwards on the rollers. I intend to be able to increase the cadence as the winter moves on and maybe to the point of calling it a sprint.

The all out sprinting potential of the Emotion Roller is what sold me on them. I looked up the Travel trac rollers and what a good deal they are and what a good deal you got. I saw your race win photos on the Spring Dreams thread, great win and good photo, looks like you lwere having fun!

milmo,

My HR zones are based on an estimated MHR of 173 bpm. My coach and I worked on establishing the max based on some specific efforts and adding a few beats. Using the max my coach established my zones for his training plan. FWIW my zones are:

Z1 < 125
Z2 = 126 - 137
Z3 = 138 - 145
Z4 = 146 - 155
Z5 = 156 and higher

My Powertap wheel-set will be arriving any day and I'll get a slew of new numbers to be my master.

Z1 to Z4 look exactly like mine, then the Friel methodology further subdivides z5 as mentioned by AZ and myself.

The max HR I've observed is 170, but since I didn't pass out in the effort I figure it's 1 or 2 higher.

Z1 to Z4 look exactly like mine, then the Friel methodology further subdivides z5 as mentioned by AZ and myself.

The max HR I've observed is 170, but since I didn't pass out in the effort I figure it's 1 or 2 higher.


Correct, my Zones are based on Friel's. Two years ago my coach was giving me workouts using Friels’ zones and I was using Karvonen which didn't work well until we made the connection. The Kavonen Z3 is similar to Friel’s Z4 and doing long Z3 intervals became problematic. I have also viewed sustained HR #'s that were beyond my MHR during races with temps of over 100 degrees. The high rate on that occasion was due to the heat and not the effort, and I did not adjust my MHR on those numbers.

Z1 to Z4 look exactly like mine, then the Friel methodology further subdivides z5 as mentioned by AZ and myself.

The max HR I've observed is 170, but since I didn't pass out in the effort I figure it's 1 or 2 higher.

My wife used to state categorically that the max HR she could achieve cycling was 155 when her recorded max running HR was 175. On the Wente road race after a 3 miles slight climb, she hit 161 on the 2 mile 7% grade and subsequently in another race hit 163. I hit 182 once. So max HR is an interesting number and seems to be different for different sports. For me, my HR is higher when racing on hot days.

Unfortunately, I find that the world of racing seems to be biased against slow people, so that limits my involvment. But most of my cycling to some extent revolves around getting better, getting stronger, losing weight, etc., so it's headed in the racing direction. Only race I'm planning is the Texas Time Trials 12-hour version next fall.

Unfortunately, I find that the world of racing seems to be biased against slow people, so that limits my involvment. But most of my cycling to some extent revolves around getting better, getting stronger, losing weight, etc., so it's headed in the racing direction. Only race I'm planning is the Texas Time Trials 12-hour version next fall.

Generally, time trials are 85% legs, heart and lungs, 10% brain and 5% equipment. I find the toughest part of a long time trial i.e. 1 hour is the mental focus. I imagine a 12 hour time trial will require near infinite ability to focus on power production while putting the accumulating pain out of your mind. That sounds just nasty. It seems like the ride a lot axiom will be the training method of choice but for a 12 hour TT, it will be ride a lot by yourself with focus on keeping power on the pedals constantly.

The way we do that in 40K time trials is to break the race down into management distances that we can get our mind around which is 10 K. For example, it is a bad idea to think about the 1/2 point and arrive feeling bad and then think OMG I have another 20 K to go.

I would talk with others who have done the event to see what training regimen they used. Good luck.

I looked at the Texas Time Trial web site and rules. It is an interesting event. Have fun with that.