Ekdog
01-05-11, 11:02 AM
Archaeology on the front end. http://bit.ly/halVzM :(
Living Car Free - The ruins of Detroit
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01-05-11, 11:09 AM
Creepy pictures especially the one of the police station
Robert Foster
01-05-11, 04:04 PM
Check out Camden New Jersey and Philidelphia. This is not all that new. But there seems to be some effort towards urban renewal but one has to wonder if it is too little too late.
http://www.angelfire.com/nv2/philadelphia/c1.html
http://www.angelfire.com/nv2/philadelphia/c1.html
Roody
01-05-11, 04:13 PM
As a Detroit native, the pictures are beautiful, haunting and disturbing. Detroit epitomized the 20th century rise of middle class prosperity, and now it represents the impending demise of the middle class.
(But do bear in mind that the photos are picked to represent a point of view, and the real truth of Detroit is much more complex. The motto of Detroit since it was destroyed by fire in the early 19th century has been, "It shall rise again from the ashes.")
(But do bear in mind that the photos are picked to represent a point of view, and the real truth of Detroit is much more complex. The motto of Detroit since it was destroyed by fire in the early 19th century has been, "It shall rise again from the ashes.")
gerv
01-05-11, 07:04 PM
http://www.angelfire.com/nv2/philadelphia/camden1.jpg
Above photo of Camden makes me wonder why there is so little activity to rebuild or maintain some of these structures... I would think that other cultures would see these are opportunities to get cheap, fixer-upper housing. However, in the US these type homes seem destined for the bull-dozer.
Above photo of Camden makes me wonder why there is so little activity to rebuild or maintain some of these structures... I would think that other cultures would see these are opportunities to get cheap, fixer-upper housing. However, in the US these type homes seem destined for the bull-dozer.
Robert Foster
01-05-11, 07:15 PM
http://www.angelfire.com/nv2/philadelphia/camden1.jpg
Above photo of Camden makes me wonder why there is so little activity to rebuild or maintain some of these structures... I would think that other cultures would see these are opportunities to get cheap, fixer-upper housing. However, in the US these type homes seem destined for the bull-dozer.
I honestly don't know. There was a part of central LA that was much like that and in fact it was an area I thought they were going to bull doze down but they rebuilt it and now business is coming back. I will admit I was surprised it happened but if the community can get the funding it can be done. The problem is so many places like Camden and Philadelphia do not have the funds and no real tax base to get the funds. If LA hadn’t already rebuilt the area I was referring to I don’t think today they would have been able to do it either.
Above photo of Camden makes me wonder why there is so little activity to rebuild or maintain some of these structures... I would think that other cultures would see these are opportunities to get cheap, fixer-upper housing. However, in the US these type homes seem destined for the bull-dozer.
I honestly don't know. There was a part of central LA that was much like that and in fact it was an area I thought they were going to bull doze down but they rebuilt it and now business is coming back. I will admit I was surprised it happened but if the community can get the funding it can be done. The problem is so many places like Camden and Philadelphia do not have the funds and no real tax base to get the funds. If LA hadn’t already rebuilt the area I was referring to I don’t think today they would have been able to do it either.
Dahon.Steve
01-05-11, 07:41 PM
http://www.angelfire.com/nv2/philadelphia/camden1.jpg
Above photo of Camden makes me wonder why there is so little activity to rebuild or maintain some of these structures... I would think that other cultures would see these are opportunities to get cheap, fixer-upper housing. However, in the US these type homes seem destined for the bull-dozer.
There is actually a good part of Camden! New Jersey Transit built the last stop of the RiverLine in Camden right by the aquarium. I kid you not, that light rail line created a lot of investment which included luxury housing right in Camden! Unfortunately, they have no intention of extending the line through the bad section.
It goes to show you that a costly light rail line can revitalize even a town like Camden. It is my understanding they intend to build a light rail line in the heart of Detroit.
Above photo of Camden makes me wonder why there is so little activity to rebuild or maintain some of these structures... I would think that other cultures would see these are opportunities to get cheap, fixer-upper housing. However, in the US these type homes seem destined for the bull-dozer.
There is actually a good part of Camden! New Jersey Transit built the last stop of the RiverLine in Camden right by the aquarium. I kid you not, that light rail line created a lot of investment which included luxury housing right in Camden! Unfortunately, they have no intention of extending the line through the bad section.
It goes to show you that a costly light rail line can revitalize even a town like Camden. It is my understanding they intend to build a light rail line in the heart of Detroit.
Dahon.Steve
01-05-11, 07:46 PM
As a Detroit native, the pictures are beautiful, haunting and disturbing. Detroit epitomized the 20th century rise of middle class prosperity, and now it represents the impending demise of the middle class.
(But do bear in mind that the photos are picked to represent a point of view, and the real truth of Detroit is much more complex. The motto of Detroit since it was destroyed by fire in the early 19th century has been, "It shall rise again from the ashes.")
I believe Detroit is spending tens of millions tearing down hundreds of homes and factories. About a third of the city has been abandoned.
Once the city destroyed their public transportation system of trolleys and commuter rail, the end was near. All it took were the race riots of the 60's to finish the job.
(But do bear in mind that the photos are picked to represent a point of view, and the real truth of Detroit is much more complex. The motto of Detroit since it was destroyed by fire in the early 19th century has been, "It shall rise again from the ashes.")
I believe Detroit is spending tens of millions tearing down hundreds of homes and factories. About a third of the city has been abandoned.
Once the city destroyed their public transportation system of trolleys and commuter rail, the end was near. All it took were the race riots of the 60's to finish the job.
rm -rf
01-05-11, 09:06 PM
The Fabulous Ruins of Detroit (http://detroityes.com/home.htm)
Detroit Lives video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=joMysMDHdb4)
Detroit Lives video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=joMysMDHdb4)
bragi
01-06-11, 12:47 AM
Detroit Lives video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=joMysMDHdb4)[/QUOTE]
I watched the "Detroit Lives" videos, and liked what I saw, but had to wonder: where are all the black people? Is Detroit now nothing more than a playground for young, adventurous, white hipsters? I also wondered: is there anyone left in this country who has a vision that involves something larger than coffee shops, bars, and artists' lofts? Where are the people who want to manufacture solar panels, wind turbines, or domestic steel bike frames?
I watched the "Detroit Lives" videos, and liked what I saw, but had to wonder: where are all the black people? Is Detroit now nothing more than a playground for young, adventurous, white hipsters? I also wondered: is there anyone left in this country who has a vision that involves something larger than coffee shops, bars, and artists' lofts? Where are the people who want to manufacture solar panels, wind turbines, or domestic steel bike frames?
poormanbiking
01-06-11, 04:08 AM
Like Roody, I'm a Detroit native. I was born just after the race riots. My parents has 2 cafes and one got shoot up the the ordeal. When my parents could afford to get out of Detroit we moved to Allen Park. For years my father said Detroit was going to hell because of the mayors office, I'm not agreeing or disagreeing I was too young to care.
The library picture had me wondering why the books were left behind.
The manufacturing of solar panels is a big deal around Toledo,Ohio, where I currently reside. Toledo is fighting the same issues but on a smaller scale with many auto jobs leaving the area including my own.
The library picture had me wondering why the books were left behind.
The manufacturing of solar panels is a big deal around Toledo,Ohio, where I currently reside. Toledo is fighting the same issues but on a smaller scale with many auto jobs leaving the area including my own.
Fizzaly
01-06-11, 07:15 AM
Like Roody, I'm a Detroit native. I was born just after the race riots. My parents has 2 cafes and one got shoot up the the ordeal. When my parents could afford to get out of Detroit we moved to Allen Park. For years my father said Detroit was going to hell because of the mayors office, I'm not agreeing or disagreeing I was too young to care.
The library picture had me wondering why the books were left behind.
The manufacturing of solar panels is a big deal around Toledo,Ohio, where I currently reside. Toledo is fighting the same issues but on a smaller scale with many auto jobs leaving the area including my own.
I thought the same thing, almost like it was abandoned in an emergency
The library picture had me wondering why the books were left behind.
The manufacturing of solar panels is a big deal around Toledo,Ohio, where I currently reside. Toledo is fighting the same issues but on a smaller scale with many auto jobs leaving the area including my own.
I thought the same thing, almost like it was abandoned in an emergency
fishtoes2000
01-06-11, 10:03 AM
But do bear in mind that the photos are picked to represent a point of view, and the real truth of Detroit is much more complex.
That's an important point. These images are ruin porn. Vice ran an excellent article on it (http://www.viceland.com/int/v16n8/htdocs/something-something-something-detroit-994.php). It was even mentioned in this week's episode of Detroit 1-8-7.
I watched the "Detroit Lives" videos, and liked what I saw, but had to wonder: where are all the black people? Is Detroit now nothing more than a playground for young, adventurous, white hipsters?Detroit is still 80-some percent black, but you couldn't tell from many of these videos. There's starting to be some push back (http://www.mlive.com/news/detroit/index.ssf/2011/01/detroit_cliche_watchdog_wxyzs.html) on the media for rehashing the same success stories.
That's an important point. These images are ruin porn. Vice ran an excellent article on it (http://www.viceland.com/int/v16n8/htdocs/something-something-something-detroit-994.php). It was even mentioned in this week's episode of Detroit 1-8-7.
I watched the "Detroit Lives" videos, and liked what I saw, but had to wonder: where are all the black people? Is Detroit now nothing more than a playground for young, adventurous, white hipsters?Detroit is still 80-some percent black, but you couldn't tell from many of these videos. There's starting to be some push back (http://www.mlive.com/news/detroit/index.ssf/2011/01/detroit_cliche_watchdog_wxyzs.html) on the media for rehashing the same success stories.
Roody
01-06-11, 11:52 AM
Detroit Lives video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=joMysMDHdb4)
I watched the "Detroit Lives" videos, and liked what I saw, but had to wonder: where are all the black people? Is Detroit now nothing more than a playground for young, adventurous, white hipsters? I also wondered: is there anyone left in this country who has a vision that involves something larger than coffee shops, bars, and artists' lofts? Where are the people who want to manufacture solar panels, wind turbines, or domestic steel bike frames?
That's a good point. The emphasis on young white hipsters comes from a good place of wanting to keep our talented and well educated young people here in Michigan when there are so many reasons for them to move elsewhere. But I think it's a shortsighted plan also. I would rather see Detroit become once again the world center of African-American culture and arts. At the same time, i'd love to see more Detroit natives (mostly black) in the vanguard of establishing new industries and technologies. While I'm in dreaming mode, I'd also like to see Highland Park (my hometown and site of the world's first mass production auto plant) become the first carfree city in the nation.
Obviously the economy is the problem. Detroit lost most of its middle-class tax base 20 years ago. The rest of Michigan is struggling right now also, having lost more than 800,000 jobs in the last 10 years.
I watched the "Detroit Lives" videos, and liked what I saw, but had to wonder: where are all the black people? Is Detroit now nothing more than a playground for young, adventurous, white hipsters? I also wondered: is there anyone left in this country who has a vision that involves something larger than coffee shops, bars, and artists' lofts? Where are the people who want to manufacture solar panels, wind turbines, or domestic steel bike frames?
That's a good point. The emphasis on young white hipsters comes from a good place of wanting to keep our talented and well educated young people here in Michigan when there are so many reasons for them to move elsewhere. But I think it's a shortsighted plan also. I would rather see Detroit become once again the world center of African-American culture and arts. At the same time, i'd love to see more Detroit natives (mostly black) in the vanguard of establishing new industries and technologies. While I'm in dreaming mode, I'd also like to see Highland Park (my hometown and site of the world's first mass production auto plant) become the first carfree city in the nation.
Obviously the economy is the problem. Detroit lost most of its middle-class tax base 20 years ago. The rest of Michigan is struggling right now also, having lost more than 800,000 jobs in the last 10 years.
no motor?
01-06-11, 02:02 PM
I find the Detroit stories pretty interesting. I was the new white boy from the suburbs when I started working in the near south side of Chicago in the early 80's, working in an area that used to be the gold coast and the site of the first car dealers in the early 20th century. It was mostly abandoned industrial buildings then, and the opening scenes from Hill Street Blues were shot about a mile from there. Now there has been enough urban renewal/gentrification in that area that it's now considered a place for the hipsters, and the area has become more popular again. I hope Detroit can rise again like that part of Chicago has.
Jim from Boston
01-26-11, 10:30 AM
As a Detroit native, the pictures are beautiful, haunting and disturbing. Detroit epitomized the 20th century rise of middle class prosperity, and now it represents the impending demise of the middle class.
(But do bear in mind that the photos are picked to represent a point of view, and the real truth of Detroit is much more complex. The motto of Detroit since it was destroyed by fire in the early 19th century has been, "It shall rise again from the ashes.")
100+ from another Detroit native.
The full motto of Detroit is "Speramus meliora; resurget cineribus" ("We hope for better things; it will arise from the ashes") written by Fr. Gabriel Richard.
(But do bear in mind that the photos are picked to represent a point of view, and the real truth of Detroit is much more complex. The motto of Detroit since it was destroyed by fire in the early 19th century has been, "It shall rise again from the ashes.")
100+ from another Detroit native.
The full motto of Detroit is "Speramus meliora; resurget cineribus" ("We hope for better things; it will arise from the ashes") written by Fr. Gabriel Richard.
Malloric
01-26-11, 06:04 PM
Camden really doesn't move me. It's a bunch of pictures of cookie-cutter utility construction that has fallen out of use and is now derelict. No real loss and such blight can be found across the entire country. Detroit is different. Those buildings were and are special.
Dahon.Steve
01-27-11, 08:14 PM
Camden really doesn't move me. It's a bunch of pictures of cookie-cutter utility construction that has fallen out of use and is now derelict. No real loss and such blight can be found across the entire country. Detroit is different. Those buildings were and are special.
Agreed.
Camden was never really much a city at all. There were some manufacturing but it was mostly a subdivision of residents who lived there and worked in Philadelphia. Detroit was one of the greatest cities in the United States and the world.
Agreed.
Camden was never really much a city at all. There were some manufacturing but it was mostly a subdivision of residents who lived there and worked in Philadelphia. Detroit was one of the greatest cities in the United States and the world.
cyclezealot
01-30-11, 05:16 AM
No not all of Detroit. Just some of Detroit..
.
.
Corktown remains one of city's most popular neighborhoods
..
Quaint and colorful, Corktown is not only Detroit's oldest neighborhood, it's also a leader in population growth, housing value, household income and racial and ethnic balance, according to census data and population analysis.
.While Detroit's population dropped an estimated 5% since 2000, Corktown is part of a southwestern swath of the city that has gr.........The neighborhoods could be a seedbed for a Detroit rebound if their residents look to neighborhoods like the University District, Sherwood Forest, Indian Village and West Village -- rather than moving to the suburbs -own an estimated 19%.....
snip
.http://www.freep.com/article/20110130/NEWS01/101300551/1001/NEWS/Corktown-remains-one-city-s-most-popular-neighborhoods
.
.
Corktown remains one of city's most popular neighborhoods
..
Quaint and colorful, Corktown is not only Detroit's oldest neighborhood, it's also a leader in population growth, housing value, household income and racial and ethnic balance, according to census data and population analysis.
.While Detroit's population dropped an estimated 5% since 2000, Corktown is part of a southwestern swath of the city that has gr.........The neighborhoods could be a seedbed for a Detroit rebound if their residents look to neighborhoods like the University District, Sherwood Forest, Indian Village and West Village -- rather than moving to the suburbs -own an estimated 19%.....
snip
.http://www.freep.com/article/20110130/NEWS01/101300551/1001/NEWS/Corktown-remains-one-city-s-most-popular-neighborhoods
cyclezealot
01-30-11, 05:17 AM
Want some great Polish food . Head to CorkTown.^..
fishtoes2000
01-30-11, 02:24 PM
Want some great Polish food . Head to CorkTown.^..
Perrhaps you meant Hamtramck? There are a good number of excellent restaurants in Corktown but I'm not aware of any Polish ones.
Speaking of Corktown, it's getting 20-some miles of bike lanes this spring along with many miles of bike routes. Corktown residents have already embraced bikes, so this should really take it up a few notches. It's also the starting/ending point for the Tour de Troit (http://www.tour-de-troit.org), which had 3,500 cyclists last year.
I also believe that Corktown was home to Detroit's first bike builder (http://www.m-bike.org/blog/2010/11/25/john-shire-detroits-first-bicycle-manufacturer) in 1877. One of his bikes is in the Smithsonian.
Perrhaps you meant Hamtramck? There are a good number of excellent restaurants in Corktown but I'm not aware of any Polish ones.
Speaking of Corktown, it's getting 20-some miles of bike lanes this spring along with many miles of bike routes. Corktown residents have already embraced bikes, so this should really take it up a few notches. It's also the starting/ending point for the Tour de Troit (http://www.tour-de-troit.org), which had 3,500 cyclists last year.
I also believe that Corktown was home to Detroit's first bike builder (http://www.m-bike.org/blog/2010/11/25/john-shire-detroits-first-bicycle-manufacturer) in 1877. One of his bikes is in the Smithsonian.
Roody
01-30-11, 05:22 PM
Cycling in Detroit is exciting. I'm going to have to get down there soon.
cyclezealot
01-31-11, 04:04 AM
Perrhaps you meant Hamtramck? There are a good number of excellent restaurants in Corktown but I'm not aware of any Polish ones.
I also believe that Corktown was home to Detroit's first bike builder (http://www.m-bike.org/blog/2010/11/25/john-shire-detroits-first-bicycle-manufacturer) in 1877. One of his bikes is in the Smithsonian.
Its been years, but my last visit to CorkTown they offered Irish and Polish near the old Tiger Stadium.. Actually, one of my favorite stops for Polish is downriver in Wyandotte.. How about a great bike path project.. One continuous ride all the way from Toledo to the Blue Water Bridge.. Michigan would become a world famous site for a bike holiday.
I also believe that Corktown was home to Detroit's first bike builder (http://www.m-bike.org/blog/2010/11/25/john-shire-detroits-first-bicycle-manufacturer) in 1877. One of his bikes is in the Smithsonian.
Its been years, but my last visit to CorkTown they offered Irish and Polish near the old Tiger Stadium.. Actually, one of my favorite stops for Polish is downriver in Wyandotte.. How about a great bike path project.. One continuous ride all the way from Toledo to the Blue Water Bridge.. Michigan would become a world famous site for a bike holiday.
fishtoes2000
01-31-11, 03:02 PM
Its been years, but my last visit to CorkTown they offered Irish and Polish near the old Tiger Stadium.. Actually, one of my favorite stops for Polish is downriver in Wyandotte.. How about a great bike path project.. One continuous ride all the way from Toledo to the Blue Water Bridge.. Michigan would become a world famous site for a bike holiday.
Maybe the old Baile Corcaigh served Polish? Dunno.
There are bike paths planned from Monroe (almost Toledo!) to the Blue Water Bridge. They are the I-275 bike path (being restored and expanded), the West Bloomfield Trail (currently being expanded), Clinton River Trail, Macomb Orchard Trail, and Bridge to Bay Trail.We are working on some on-road routes as well. One of the US Bicycle Routes will make the connection from Toledo to the Blue Water Bridge. These aren't all completed, but work is underway.
Maybe the old Baile Corcaigh served Polish? Dunno.
There are bike paths planned from Monroe (almost Toledo!) to the Blue Water Bridge. They are the I-275 bike path (being restored and expanded), the West Bloomfield Trail (currently being expanded), Clinton River Trail, Macomb Orchard Trail, and Bridge to Bay Trail.We are working on some on-road routes as well. One of the US Bicycle Routes will make the connection from Toledo to the Blue Water Bridge. These aren't all completed, but work is underway.
Roody
02-01-11, 05:30 PM
Michigan already has extensive trails, and will connect most parts of the state within 20 years.
ImChris
02-07-11, 07:43 PM
I love Detroit.
While im a couple hours north of it at the moment (Central Michigan University), my home town is only about 45 minutes north of the city. I will say I did not do much exploring of the city while at home, but now that i'm in college I find myself in Detroit often. Mainly because 4 of my best friends all moved to Detroit to go to law school and I love to visit them.
I've spent some awesome nights checking out Detroit bars / restaurants in all different areas like Corktown, downtown, midtown, and a few other areas. Heck, some of the best BBQ i've had lately was from Slows (in Corktown) and I got an amazing burger at a cool little place in Midtown. I wish more people from the Metro Detroit area got rid of their stereotypical views of how 'bad' the city is and started to give it another chance. There is some awesome stuff down there not many people know about.
The thing I like most about Detroit is how much pride the people who live there take in their city. When you go into the restaurants / bars you'll usually find Michigan made materials. You'll find lots of Detroit craft beers and the bread for my burger for example, was made from a local bakery.
Detroit can be thanked for the creation of so much stuff that has changed our world dramatically, I just hope people never forget that.
Sure, as a photographer i can say those pictures above are neat, but those are the photos being shown all over the world. It sure it swaying peoples views on the city. It would be nice to see some photos of the hussle and bussle from the more 'well off' areas of Detroit. Heck, i'll take them if I do not forget my camera the next time I go down there! haha
.Chris
While im a couple hours north of it at the moment (Central Michigan University), my home town is only about 45 minutes north of the city. I will say I did not do much exploring of the city while at home, but now that i'm in college I find myself in Detroit often. Mainly because 4 of my best friends all moved to Detroit to go to law school and I love to visit them.
I've spent some awesome nights checking out Detroit bars / restaurants in all different areas like Corktown, downtown, midtown, and a few other areas. Heck, some of the best BBQ i've had lately was from Slows (in Corktown) and I got an amazing burger at a cool little place in Midtown. I wish more people from the Metro Detroit area got rid of their stereotypical views of how 'bad' the city is and started to give it another chance. There is some awesome stuff down there not many people know about.
The thing I like most about Detroit is how much pride the people who live there take in their city. When you go into the restaurants / bars you'll usually find Michigan made materials. You'll find lots of Detroit craft beers and the bread for my burger for example, was made from a local bakery.
Detroit can be thanked for the creation of so much stuff that has changed our world dramatically, I just hope people never forget that.
Sure, as a photographer i can say those pictures above are neat, but those are the photos being shown all over the world. It sure it swaying peoples views on the city. It would be nice to see some photos of the hussle and bussle from the more 'well off' areas of Detroit. Heck, i'll take them if I do not forget my camera the next time I go down there! haha
.Chris
AdamDZ
02-08-11, 11:33 AM
Creepy pictures especially the one of the police station
Creepy indeed. These pictures look like from the set of some post-apocalyptic movie, just missing the zombies.
Creepy indeed. These pictures look like from the set of some post-apocalyptic movie, just missing the zombies.
Roody
02-08-11, 01:30 PM
Did anybody see eminem's Chrysler commercial during the Super Bowl? The view of the D is a lot friendlier, without sugarcoating it too muc. Check it out:
http://www.youtube.com/user/chrysler?bid=5079147&adid=233347236&pid=57249858&KWNM=chrysler+eminem+advertisement&KWID=150748049&channel=PS
http://www.youtube.com/user/chrysler?bid=5079147&adid=233347236&pid=57249858&KWNM=chrysler+eminem+advertisement&KWID=150748049&channel=PS
ImChris
02-08-11, 03:16 PM
Did anybody see eminem's Chrysler commercial during the Super Bowl? The view of the D is a lot friendlier, without sugarcoating it too muc. Check it out:
http://www.youtube.com/user/chrysler?bid=5079147&adid=233347236&pid=57249858&KWNM=chrysler+eminem+advertisement&KWID=150748049&channel=PS
Goosebumps when I watch it.
.Chris
http://www.youtube.com/user/chrysler?bid=5079147&adid=233347236&pid=57249858&KWNM=chrysler+eminem+advertisement&KWID=150748049&channel=PS
Goosebumps when I watch it.
.Chris
Platy
02-08-11, 03:58 PM
I love Detroit...It would be nice to see some photos of the hussle and bussle from the more 'well off' areas of Detroit. Heck, i'll take them if I do not forget my camera the next time I go down there!
Do it! The great old cities of the midwest could use a little love about now.
Do it! The great old cities of the midwest could use a little love about now.
Robert Foster
02-08-11, 08:04 PM
But will even pictures help?
http://www.mlive.com/news/detroit/index.ssf/2010/06/detroit_population_continues_t.html (http://www.mlive.com/news/detroit/index.ssf/2010/06/detroit_population_continues_t.html)
http://www.mlive.com/news/detroit/index.ssf/2010/06/detroit_population_continues_t.html (http://www.mlive.com/news/detroit/index.ssf/2010/06/detroit_population_continues_t.html)
JayButros
02-09-11, 11:35 AM
I love Detroit.
.Chris
Would you move inside the city limits?
I'm not patronizing you, seriously. It's my opinion that the only way to fix the inner-city is for people with money to move there.
There isn't a right or wrong answer, just curious.
.Chris
Would you move inside the city limits?
I'm not patronizing you, seriously. It's my opinion that the only way to fix the inner-city is for people with money to move there.
There isn't a right or wrong answer, just curious.
ImChris
02-09-11, 04:42 PM
Would you move inside the city limits?
I'm not patronizing you, seriously. It's my opinion that the only way to fix the inner-city is for people with money to move there.
There isn't a right or wrong answer, just curious.
Oh for sure! I have actually been checking out loft prices as of late. I mean, i still have another 1 1/2 years here at university, but if a cool job opportunity opens up after graduation, or I could think of a cool business that would work in the city I would not hesitate moving there at all.
Now, the Detroit 'city limits' cover a HUGE area, actually from one of the videos posted above it points out Boston, Manhattan, and San Francisco could fit inside the limits. With that said, there would be select areas i may move to. Like Downtown, or Midtown, or Corktown for example. The areas that are a bit more populated and such.
In short, sure, i'd live in the city limits. As i said before, a few of my friends currently live in the limits and highly enjoy it.
>Chris
I'm not patronizing you, seriously. It's my opinion that the only way to fix the inner-city is for people with money to move there.
There isn't a right or wrong answer, just curious.
Oh for sure! I have actually been checking out loft prices as of late. I mean, i still have another 1 1/2 years here at university, but if a cool job opportunity opens up after graduation, or I could think of a cool business that would work in the city I would not hesitate moving there at all.
Now, the Detroit 'city limits' cover a HUGE area, actually from one of the videos posted above it points out Boston, Manhattan, and San Francisco could fit inside the limits. With that said, there would be select areas i may move to. Like Downtown, or Midtown, or Corktown for example. The areas that are a bit more populated and such.
In short, sure, i'd live in the city limits. As i said before, a few of my friends currently live in the limits and highly enjoy it.
>Chris
JayButros
02-09-11, 08:20 PM
^
I gotta say, living in a city ...sidewalks, grid pattern, higher densities and so on is a superior way to live IMO.
It's definitely more bike friendly. I ride everyday and there are streets in Richmond's suburbs I would never ride on. It's way to dangerous. There are even more I wouldn't walk down, you look transient and again, way too dangerous.
Modern suburban life is spent in a vehicle, work, home ...repeat.
I don't get most people's bias towards living in a high density area. You don't have to live in your vehicle.
I gotta say, living in a city ...sidewalks, grid pattern, higher densities and so on is a superior way to live IMO.
It's definitely more bike friendly. I ride everyday and there are streets in Richmond's suburbs I would never ride on. It's way to dangerous. There are even more I wouldn't walk down, you look transient and again, way too dangerous.
Modern suburban life is spent in a vehicle, work, home ...repeat.
I don't get most people's bias towards living in a high density area. You don't have to live in your vehicle.
ImChris
02-10-11, 12:35 AM
Agreed Jay.
Although, Detroit is not all that dense. Sure, there are large buildings and the such, but the city is pretty sprawled out. Also, Detroit is not too populated for its size either. One of the most built up areas of Detroit is the downtown area and after maybe 5 or 6pm (at least the 15 or so times ive been down there in the last year) the roads are pretty empty for a big city. It makes biking pretty surreal sometimes. You'll be the only one on a few lane road with sky scrappers surrounding you.
Here is a view from one of my buds apartments. Horrible photo quality..sorry! Large building straight ahead in first photo is Greektown Casino, a huge contributor to bringing people to the city. The other largest contributors would be sporting events (Detroit Lions / Red Wings). Detroit Pistons really do not play in Detroit.
http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f95/Tempo92/95a11129.jpg
http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f95/Tempo92/7923b462.jpg
.Chris
Although, Detroit is not all that dense. Sure, there are large buildings and the such, but the city is pretty sprawled out. Also, Detroit is not too populated for its size either. One of the most built up areas of Detroit is the downtown area and after maybe 5 or 6pm (at least the 15 or so times ive been down there in the last year) the roads are pretty empty for a big city. It makes biking pretty surreal sometimes. You'll be the only one on a few lane road with sky scrappers surrounding you.
Here is a view from one of my buds apartments. Horrible photo quality..sorry! Large building straight ahead in first photo is Greektown Casino, a huge contributor to bringing people to the city. The other largest contributors would be sporting events (Detroit Lions / Red Wings). Detroit Pistons really do not play in Detroit.
http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f95/Tempo92/95a11129.jpg
http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f95/Tempo92/7923b462.jpg
.Chris
JayButros
02-12-11, 02:24 PM
Nice.
It's not that different from downtown Richmond. Which is kind of deserted after work as you mentioned above.
It's gotten better but Richmond is still all about the 'burbs. Hey, they can have it. It's funny, there's more traffic and related headaches in Richmond's 'burbs then there is in downtown. No one I know wants to hear it though...
I swipe my card after work at 5, granted I live only a few miles from work but I'm home by 5:15-5:30. I'm not sure the 'burbs commute is worth whatever you get for it.
What do you get for it?
When I drive I am literally in the condo by 5:05. No joke.
You're on the right track, don't spend your remaining youth in the outskirts. If you move to Car-Land later on you'll still thank yourself that you didn't.
I like those pictures ...it would make a nice thread.
It's not that different from downtown Richmond. Which is kind of deserted after work as you mentioned above.
It's gotten better but Richmond is still all about the 'burbs. Hey, they can have it. It's funny, there's more traffic and related headaches in Richmond's 'burbs then there is in downtown. No one I know wants to hear it though...
I swipe my card after work at 5, granted I live only a few miles from work but I'm home by 5:15-5:30. I'm not sure the 'burbs commute is worth whatever you get for it.
What do you get for it?
When I drive I am literally in the condo by 5:05. No joke.
You're on the right track, don't spend your remaining youth in the outskirts. If you move to Car-Land later on you'll still thank yourself that you didn't.
I like those pictures ...it would make a nice thread.
ace587
02-18-11, 11:21 PM
i would love to go to Detroit
Ekdog
02-21-11, 03:04 PM
i would love to go to Detroit
Detroit Schools Closing: Michigan Officials Order Robert Bobb To Shut Half The City's Schools (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/02/21/detroit-schools-closing_n_826007.html)
Detroit Schools Closing: Michigan Officials Order Robert Bobb To Shut Half The City's Schools (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/02/21/detroit-schools-closing_n_826007.html)
JayButros
02-21-11, 05:19 PM
Detroit Schools Closing: Michigan Officials Order Robert Bobb To Shut Half The City's Schools (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/02/21/detroit-schools-closing_n_826007.html)
...LoL
Bob Bob used to be the City Manager here in Richmond ...he did ok ...good luck to him in Detroit.
...LoL
Bob Bob used to be the City Manager here in Richmond ...he did ok ...good luck to him in Detroit.
Roody
02-22-11, 01:00 PM
...LoL
Bob Bob used to be the City Manager here in Richmond ...he did ok ...good luck to him in Detroit.
He's had a lot of challenges here, and I don't know how much longer he will be around. In a way it makes sense to close half the schools, since half the population has left over the last 40 years. Mayor Dave Bing talks about shrinking the city--encouraging people to move out of some areas and into other areas, so that city services can be more efficiently provided.
As ImChris pointed out, Detroit is a very sprawled city and even in it's heyday was one of the least dense cities in America. This isn't surprising, considering the impact that the automobile had on the development of the city. More recent suburban development means that the Detroit metro area is easily 50 miles across.
Scary thought--Detroit may be already what many other American cities will be in a couple decades. Our cities really need to get their **** together if they want to survive in an era of expensive transportation.
Bob Bob used to be the City Manager here in Richmond ...he did ok ...good luck to him in Detroit.
He's had a lot of challenges here, and I don't know how much longer he will be around. In a way it makes sense to close half the schools, since half the population has left over the last 40 years. Mayor Dave Bing talks about shrinking the city--encouraging people to move out of some areas and into other areas, so that city services can be more efficiently provided.
As ImChris pointed out, Detroit is a very sprawled city and even in it's heyday was one of the least dense cities in America. This isn't surprising, considering the impact that the automobile had on the development of the city. More recent suburban development means that the Detroit metro area is easily 50 miles across.
Scary thought--Detroit may be already what many other American cities will be in a couple decades. Our cities really need to get their **** together if they want to survive in an era of expensive transportation.
JayButros
02-22-11, 01:17 PM
^^
...I for one welcome $5 and on up for a gallon of gas. I think it would be good for American cities. It certainly hasn't hurt Europe's major cities. I think most people have little to no interest in living downtown, that is unless it makes economic sense.
You can only cram so many jobs in a 2 or 3 storey building in Suburbia's office parks and the housing density is an utter joke.
Also, I only laughed at the "Bob Bob" part of the man's name, Richmond is no picnic and shares the same problems that most if not all of America's cities have. It was a shame for him to leave really. He did some nice things here and he's certainly not a p***y.
He was headed to Oakland when he quit here.
...I for one welcome $5 and on up for a gallon of gas. I think it would be good for American cities. It certainly hasn't hurt Europe's major cities. I think most people have little to no interest in living downtown, that is unless it makes economic sense.
You can only cram so many jobs in a 2 or 3 storey building in Suburbia's office parks and the housing density is an utter joke.
Also, I only laughed at the "Bob Bob" part of the man's name, Richmond is no picnic and shares the same problems that most if not all of America's cities have. It was a shame for him to leave really. He did some nice things here and he's certainly not a p***y.
He was headed to Oakland when he quit here.
prathmann
02-22-11, 01:47 PM
Scary thought--Detroit may be already what many other American cities will be in a couple decades. Our cities really need to get their **** together if they want to survive in an era of expensive transportation.
Many cities would seem to be much better positioned to deal with higher costs for personal transportation. Car ownership is decidedly optional in places like NYC, SF, and Chicago with their extensive mass transit infrastructure.
I usually use the EveryTrail site for recording bike rides, but here's one of a ride I took on the PeopleMover system in downtown Detroit:
http://www.everytrail.com/view_trip.php?trip_id=892796
Many cities would seem to be much better positioned to deal with higher costs for personal transportation. Car ownership is decidedly optional in places like NYC, SF, and Chicago with their extensive mass transit infrastructure.
I usually use the EveryTrail site for recording bike rides, but here's one of a ride I took on the PeopleMover system in downtown Detroit:
http://www.everytrail.com/view_trip.php?trip_id=892796
Robert Foster
02-22-11, 08:24 PM
The question isn’t if cities like Detroit represent urban decay because they do and are used as examples of the very word. The question should be has the rust belt outlived its usefulness to the population that left in the first place? What is the cause and can it be solved?
One of the main draws of the big cities in the north east was manufacturing jobs and that brought people from all over to populate those very same cities. But through evolution those jobs have left the big cities and in some cases even left the country. Without that draw the rust belt will continue to rust.
It isn’t a question that can be answered by the people still living there because they have a vested interest in slowing the bleeding because of decreased tax base and related services. The question has to be answered by the people who left? Why did they leave and is there any financial reason to return? People will not move back for tradition, civic pride, or because it is the right thing to do. They will only move back if crime is addressed, living costs like rent and home ownership are lowered and manufacturing jobs come back. What are the chances of that happening in our lifetime?
For once I agree with Roody, this may be a sign of the times unless something drastic happens.
One of the main draws of the big cities in the north east was manufacturing jobs and that brought people from all over to populate those very same cities. But through evolution those jobs have left the big cities and in some cases even left the country. Without that draw the rust belt will continue to rust.
It isn’t a question that can be answered by the people still living there because they have a vested interest in slowing the bleeding because of decreased tax base and related services. The question has to be answered by the people who left? Why did they leave and is there any financial reason to return? People will not move back for tradition, civic pride, or because it is the right thing to do. They will only move back if crime is addressed, living costs like rent and home ownership are lowered and manufacturing jobs come back. What are the chances of that happening in our lifetime?
For once I agree with Roody, this may be a sign of the times unless something drastic happens.
wahoonc
02-23-11, 05:38 AM
He's had a lot of challenges here, and I don't know how much longer he will be around. In a way it makes sense to close half the schools, since half the population has left over the last 40 years. Mayor Dave Bing talks about shrinking the city--encouraging people to move out of some areas and into other areas, so that city services can be more efficiently provided.
As ImChris pointed out, Detroit is a very sprawled city and even in it's heyday was one of the least dense cities in America. This isn't surprising, considering the impact that the automobile had on the development of the city. More recent suburban development means that the Detroit metro area is easily 50 miles across.
Scary thought--Detroit may be already what many other American cities will be in a couple decades. Our cities really need to get their **** together if they want to survive in an era of expensive transportation.
I just read an article in Time magazine about dying counties and population shift, it is known as "natural decrease" (http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,2053106,00.html) apparently happens to cities too.
Aaron :)
As ImChris pointed out, Detroit is a very sprawled city and even in it's heyday was one of the least dense cities in America. This isn't surprising, considering the impact that the automobile had on the development of the city. More recent suburban development means that the Detroit metro area is easily 50 miles across.
Scary thought--Detroit may be already what many other American cities will be in a couple decades. Our cities really need to get their **** together if they want to survive in an era of expensive transportation.
I just read an article in Time magazine about dying counties and population shift, it is known as "natural decrease" (http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,2053106,00.html) apparently happens to cities too.
Aaron :)
fishtoes2000
02-23-11, 06:20 AM
First, Detroit is not shrinking. The Mayor and his staff are adamant about *not* shrinking the city nor even using that term. The phrase "right sizing" is off the table as well.
And, despite the population loss, Detroit is not one of the least dense cities. It's at a higher density that Los Angeles, twice the density of Portland, and three times more dense than Minneapolis. It's also more dense than it's surrounding suburbs.
Automobile use didn't reduce Detroit's density like it has in suburbs. Most of the city was developed during the time that it boasted one of America's best streetcar systems. The automobile industry and the rise of the middle class meant the city had more single family homes -- that did reduce density to a degree, but again not like auto-centric suburban development.
And, despite the population loss, Detroit is not one of the least dense cities. It's at a higher density that Los Angeles, twice the density of Portland, and three times more dense than Minneapolis. It's also more dense than it's surrounding suburbs.
Automobile use didn't reduce Detroit's density like it has in suburbs. Most of the city was developed during the time that it boasted one of America's best streetcar systems. The automobile industry and the rise of the middle class meant the city had more single family homes -- that did reduce density to a degree, but again not like auto-centric suburban development.
Robert Foster
02-23-11, 04:26 PM
First, Detroit is not shrinking. The Mayor and his staff are adamant about *not* shrinking the city nor even using that term. The phrase "right sizing" is off the table as well.
And, despite the population loss, Detroit is not one of the least dense cities. It's at a higher density that Los Angeles, twice the density of Portland, and three times more dense than Minneapolis. It's also more dense than it's surrounding suburbs.
Automobile use didn't reduce Detroit's density like it has in suburbs. Most of the city was developed during the time that it boasted one of America's best streetcar systems. The automobile industry and the rise of the middle class meant the city had more single family homes -- that did reduce density to a degree, but again not like auto-centric suburban development.
So you are saying Detroit isn't Planning on tearing down large sections of property because there are only half as many people as there were at its peak? These news articles are wrong? Can you give us the sites to check this out?
http://michiganmessenger.com/22062/detroit-leads-nation-in-population-loss (http://michiganmessenger.com/22062/detroit-leads-nation-in-population-loss)
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2010/mar/09/detroit-looks-at-downsizing-to-save-city/ (http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2010/mar/09/detroit-looks-at-downsizing-to-save-city/)
And, despite the population loss, Detroit is not one of the least dense cities. It's at a higher density that Los Angeles, twice the density of Portland, and three times more dense than Minneapolis. It's also more dense than it's surrounding suburbs.
Automobile use didn't reduce Detroit's density like it has in suburbs. Most of the city was developed during the time that it boasted one of America's best streetcar systems. The automobile industry and the rise of the middle class meant the city had more single family homes -- that did reduce density to a degree, but again not like auto-centric suburban development.
So you are saying Detroit isn't Planning on tearing down large sections of property because there are only half as many people as there were at its peak? These news articles are wrong? Can you give us the sites to check this out?
http://michiganmessenger.com/22062/detroit-leads-nation-in-population-loss (http://michiganmessenger.com/22062/detroit-leads-nation-in-population-loss)
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2010/mar/09/detroit-looks-at-downsizing-to-save-city/ (http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2010/mar/09/detroit-looks-at-downsizing-to-save-city/)
Roody
02-24-11, 04:28 PM
So you are saying Detroit isn't Planning on tearing down large sections of property because there are only half as many people as there were at its peak? These news articles are wrong? Can you give us the sites to check this out?
http://michiganmessenger.com/22062/detroit-leads-nation-in-population-loss (http://michiganmessenger.com/22062/detroit-leads-nation-in-population-loss)
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2010/mar/09/detroit-looks-at-downsizing-to-save-city/ (http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2010/mar/09/detroit-looks-at-downsizing-to-save-city/)
Neither of the articles say anything about Detroit planning to tear down sections of the city. You may want to read more closely if you think they do.
http://michiganmessenger.com/22062/detroit-leads-nation-in-population-loss (http://michiganmessenger.com/22062/detroit-leads-nation-in-population-loss)
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2010/mar/09/detroit-looks-at-downsizing-to-save-city/ (http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2010/mar/09/detroit-looks-at-downsizing-to-save-city/)
Neither of the articles say anything about Detroit planning to tear down sections of the city. You may want to read more closely if you think they do.
Robert Foster
02-24-11, 09:18 PM
Neither of the articles say anything about Detroit planning to tear down sections of the city. You may want to read more closely if you think they do.
Really? A quote from page two of the second link from the Washington times"
"The current plan would demolish about 10,000 houses and empty buildings in three years and pump new investment into stronger neighborhoods. In the neighborhoods that would be cleared, the city would offer to relocate residents or buy them out. The city could use tax foreclosure to claim abandoned property and invoke eminent domain for those who refuse to leave, much as cities now do for freeway projects."
Would demolish have been a better word?
Really? A quote from page two of the second link from the Washington times"
"The current plan would demolish about 10,000 houses and empty buildings in three years and pump new investment into stronger neighborhoods. In the neighborhoods that would be cleared, the city would offer to relocate residents or buy them out. The city could use tax foreclosure to claim abandoned property and invoke eminent domain for those who refuse to leave, much as cities now do for freeway projects."
Would demolish have been a better word?
Roody
02-25-11, 04:34 PM
Really? A quote from page two of the second link from the Washington times"
"The current plan would demolish about 10,000 houses and empty buildings in three years and pump new investment into stronger neighborhoods. In the neighborhoods that would be cleared, the city would offer to relocate residents or buy them out. The city could use tax foreclosure to claim abandoned property and invoke eminent domain for those who refuse to leave, much as cities now do for freeway projects."
Would demolish have been a better word?
That is not a "plan" by the city of Detroit to do anything. It's speculation, possibly by a bunch of college students who were smoking pot on the couch one day. The writer of the article is trying to make it seem more dramatic than it really is. (Notice the date on the article for one thing.) Mayor Bing floated the idea but he wasn't married to it. Not many Detroiters were satisfied with the notion, so it probably won't go anywhere. I believe the city of Flint has gone a little farther with shrinkage discussion, but I don't know the particulars.
I'm just glad I live in Lansing where state government and the university have sheltered us some from the collapse of the auto industry. Of course, now cars are bouncing back and state governments are in the toilet, so who knows?
"The current plan would demolish about 10,000 houses and empty buildings in three years and pump new investment into stronger neighborhoods. In the neighborhoods that would be cleared, the city would offer to relocate residents or buy them out. The city could use tax foreclosure to claim abandoned property and invoke eminent domain for those who refuse to leave, much as cities now do for freeway projects."
Would demolish have been a better word?
That is not a "plan" by the city of Detroit to do anything. It's speculation, possibly by a bunch of college students who were smoking pot on the couch one day. The writer of the article is trying to make it seem more dramatic than it really is. (Notice the date on the article for one thing.) Mayor Bing floated the idea but he wasn't married to it. Not many Detroiters were satisfied with the notion, so it probably won't go anywhere. I believe the city of Flint has gone a little farther with shrinkage discussion, but I don't know the particulars.
I'm just glad I live in Lansing where state government and the university have sheltered us some from the collapse of the auto industry. Of course, now cars are bouncing back and state governments are in the toilet, so who knows?
sonatageek
02-25-11, 06:11 PM
There are similar plans for 'shrinking' a number of cities in Ohio. Youngstown has a pretty extensive plan to consolidate the people who are left into more viable areas and opening up space for parks, golf courses and food production. Cleveland is also making some moves, with some small scale 'farms' being set up and last year a guy planted a vineyard in the neighborhood where the Cleveland Clinic main campus resides.
I know in Youngstown they are not planning on forcing people to move that don't want to, but city services are going to be withdrawn, so the street would be considered private and snow plowing and repairs would not be forthcoming.
Such moves really seem to make sense, as the reduced population and business means that tax revenues are less, and if you have to keep maintaining the roads and other infrastructure for that was built for two or three times the people. Not a recipe for sustainability.
I don't think any of the old northern industrial cities are going to be as big and economically strong as they once were, but they may become much better smaller or mid-size cities. I wonder how the current crop of thriving US cities will be doing in 25 years as the center of world economic power continues to shift to the far east?
I know in Youngstown they are not planning on forcing people to move that don't want to, but city services are going to be withdrawn, so the street would be considered private and snow plowing and repairs would not be forthcoming.
Such moves really seem to make sense, as the reduced population and business means that tax revenues are less, and if you have to keep maintaining the roads and other infrastructure for that was built for two or three times the people. Not a recipe for sustainability.
I don't think any of the old northern industrial cities are going to be as big and economically strong as they once were, but they may become much better smaller or mid-size cities. I wonder how the current crop of thriving US cities will be doing in 25 years as the center of world economic power continues to shift to the far east?