Folding Bikes - Citizen Miami. Is it a Disposable First Folder?

Hi, new here. I have been looking at folders for a while (have read the stickies and reviews here) and the Citizen Miami seems to hit my price/feature comfort zone for a folder; I also believe it's one of the better looking 20" folders out there (besides the $300+ Gotham2).

I have googled for a few days and I think I have read/seen most info on the web.

My one BIG remaining question is:

Are these disposable bikes? It seems long term reviews end with complaints about simple parts (bolts, spokes, wheels, etc.) that are worn or have broken and the solution seems to be "buy a new bike".

Are all the components -besides the frame and the Shimano derailleur- not worth fixing (pricewise). I would think bolts, spokes and even whole wheels would come under long term maintenance for most bikes, not "time to upgrade".

Small remaining question:

The Gotham2 comes in two sizes. Over and under 5'9". Will the OSFM Miami fit a 5'11" rider?

Thanks.

Many folder enthusiasts change bikes frequently, but it seems to be more for variety. While some folding bikes are more entry level, I wouldn't recommend buying anything that you considered disposable. If budget is an issue, perhaps you should buy something second hand from ebay or craigslist.

As for the Citizen Miami, I'm sure its a quality entry level folder, but not well suited for costly mods and upgrades down the road. My primary reason for saying this is b/c it has a hi-tensile steel frame which tends to be very heavy (aluminum and chromoly are preferred by most riders). Despite this shortcoming, I wouldn't classify the Miami as disposable and believe it could be resold after you grew tired of it.

Yeah, I'd say go for a second-hand Dahon, a Vitesse or Speed depending on the type of frame you'd prefer. Unless of course you manage to pick up a second-hand Citizen bike for next to nothing.
Having said that it seems that the 2009 frame hinge design on Dahons may have been flawed (seems so from my experience). . . certainly the 2007 frames strike me as excellent and very upgradeable.

I have what I think is of the same manufacturing origin as the Citizen Tokyo and the components are indeed clearly not at all durable. The paint falls off at the slightest knock, the v-brakes are badly made. . . everything is badly made. I serviced the hubs and the manufacturing is visibly poor. Lower-end Dahons have their problems too but hubs are good, rims are OK. . . frames are solid. Bottom brackets are crap and chainsets are not so great.

Citizen is continually upgrading their bikes. This years model is not exactly like one a couple years old. I picked up a pre-owned Miami at a good price and changed out the brakes. When I sold it the new owner changed out the steel crank with an alloy one. It was an OK entry level bike but I think buying new the Gotham2 would be a better deal or if you can wait keep doing your research and check Craigslist for a good deal.

i will advise you to look elsewhere. check CL or ebay as what Joseph mentioned. a second hand dahon will be a better choice than a brand new Citizen.

I have a Miami, and it is an okay bike. Certainly not the best, but my wife wanted to try folders out without spending a bunch of money. I'm not a small person (6'4", 315lbs) and ride it to exercise my German Shepard. I would suggest giving it a good 'once over', and tighten all screws/ bolts, and maybe replace the saddle. For the money, and for a bike that I plan to use at university, it is good enough. I'm sure that I will buy a "better" folder some time down the road, but for now, it works for me. YMMV

i used to have citizen tokyo that i bought for only $100. it got me started with this folderitis. the moment i rode it, i can tell that this is not the folding bike i envisioned it to be. it's so heavy and gearings are limited. and most of the parts are sub-standard. i decided to sell it and got myself a used dahon boardwalk 6 speed. i got the boardwalk for $125. that $25 difference is like night and day. dahon has better gearings, lighter and i can roll it when folder. also i was able to upgrade most of the parts. do yourself a favor, save some more and get a dahon (at least) and frequently check CL or eBay.

^ Good advice.

One would think that with similar sized components, the Dahon would look similar, but I must confess that I simply find the Dahon a little 'Goofy' looking. For some reason the proportions of the Dahon seem off to me, enough so that it's not a bike I would consider.

I'm sure the Dahon is a better bike, I just can't get past the aesthetics. The next 20" that I like is several hundred dollars, closing in on one grand.

If I were to get the Miami, what could I upgrade from the get go to save me some headaches down the road?

.......If I were to get the Miami, what could I upgrade from the get go to save me some headaches down the road? If this is the way you want to go, upgrade by getting the Gotham2, it's only $110 more and you'd spend that on upgrading the Miami.

If I were to get the Miami, what could I upgrade from the get go to save me some headaches down the road?

upgrade the whole bike and get a Bike Friday. this will definitely save you tons of headaches. i am basing my advise on my experiences with citizen bikes in general. search the forum and you can get some pretty good advises from the members on what starting folding bike you can get. you're asking our opinion so there goes mine. if you can get something else other the citizen you will be better off. just my 2 cents. honestly speaking i was thinking about the goofiness of dahon bikes but once i rode one, it changes my perception. don't you think all folding bikes look goofy though ?

If this is the way you want to go, upgrade by getting the Gotham2, it's only $110 more and you'd spend that on upgrading the Miami.

Thanks for the reponse. Regarding the upgrade from Miami to Gotham2, I was thinking more along the lines of bolts and quick releases, not wheels and transmission/go gear.

I keep hearing it's a slow bike, but as long as it's faster than walking, I should be OK, remember I have not ridden a bike in 20+ years.


upgrade the whole bike and get a Bike Friday. this will definitely save you tons of headaches. i am basing my advise on my experiences with citizen bikes in general. search the forum and you can get some pretty good advises from the members on what starting folding bike you can get. you're asking our opinion so there goes mine. if you can get something else other the citizen you will be better off. just my 2 cents. honestly speaking i was thinking about the goofiness of dahon bikes but once i rode one, it changes my perception. don't you think all folding bikes look goofy though ?

As far as upgrading to Bike Friday, I do thank you for the comment, but do realize that you just said to upgrade from a $194 "Pay it by cuttting back on Starbucks bike" to a $1,000 investment. :eek:

For what it's worth, I have been into forums for almost two decades and I guess it's the same whether guns, knives, phones or folding bikes. People ask about a $12 Warthog folder knife and good people say "Get a Sebenza", people ask about Hi-Point and good people say "Get a custom Kimber". I know it's probably great advice, but I'm just not ready to make a $1,000 commitment.

I just think it' cooler looking.

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5166/5343627734_275cb83718.jpg

Again, thanks for all the advice!

if you're anywhere near DC area, this is really a good deal. http://washingtondc.craigslist.org/nva/bik/2152062632.html

if you get this one you don't need to upgrade anything until you find the right folding bike for you.

if you're anywhere near DC area, this is really a good deal. http://washingtondc.craigslist.org/nva/bik/2152062632.html

if you get this one you don't need to upgrade anything until you find the right folding bike for you.

Now that's a convincing argument. Too bad I'm in Philly with a crazy work schedule.

I think all of your advice will make me hold off on the Citizen for a while and keep an eye out on Craiglist.

If this is your first bike in a very long time then a cheapie is the way to go. 2nd hand you would get better bang for buck. But yes, go for a cheapie. Every new bike rider probably needs to go through the learning steps. I also went through this process of getting progressively more expensive bikes. At the start I would not for a nanosecond have considered buying the bikes I have now. But having gone through the process I now know the difference.

I went into Trophy Bikes today (Philly).

Great people who did a very bad thing... they demo'ed a Brompton for me!

Wow, great piece of engineering.

Wow at the price too. I am still going to get an entry level bike first (probably), but I now know what (and where) I will get as an upgrade if the bike bug sticks.

but I now know what (and where) I will get as an upgrade if the bike bug sticks.

trust me - the bike bug will definitely stick and once you get it there is no cure and no way out.... just like me, i started with citizen tokyo, then on to A-Bike, then dahon boardwalk speed 6, then dahon boardwalk speed 7, then dahon curve d3, then dahon mu xl sports, then bike friday. and now i have the almost everything upgraded and 20lbs dahon speed tr.

Hi, new here. I have been looking at folders for a while (have read the stickies and reviews here) and the Citizen Miami seems to hit my price/feature comfort zone for a folder; I also believe it's one of the better looking 20" folders out there (besides the $300+ Gotham2).

I have googled for a few days and I think I have read/seen most info on the web.

My one BIG remaining question is:

Are these disposable bikes? It seems long term reviews end with complaints about simple parts (bolts, spokes, wheels, etc.) that are worn or have broken and the solution seems to be "buy a new bike".

Are all the components -besides the frame and the Shimano derailleur- not worth fixing (pricewise). I would think bolts, spokes and even whole wheels would come under long term maintenance for most bikes, not "time to upgrade".

Small remaining question:

The Gotham2 comes in two sizes. Over and under 5'9". Will the OSFM Miami fit a 5'11" rider?

Thanks.

If you are in the market for a "disposable" bike (one that cannot be fixed at a bike shop, has proprietary parts offered at the dealer or HQ level, or easily upgraded is disposable in my way of thinking), then a cheapo type of bike is the way to go. Buying used as others suggested is another way of getting a folding bike but unless you are an experienced rider, then either bring a friend along who is, or go new.


Many folder enthusiasts change bikes frequently, but it seems to be more for variety. While some folding bikes are more entry level, I wouldn't recommend buying anything that you considered disposable. If budget is an issue, perhaps you should buy something second hand from ebay or craigslist.

As for the Citizen Miami, I'm sure its a quality entry level folder, but not well suited for costly mods and upgrades down the road. My primary reason for saying this is b/c it has a hi-tensile steel frame which tends to be very heavy (aluminum and chromoly are preferred by most riders). Despite this shortcoming, I wouldn't classify the Miami as disposable and believe it could be resold after you grew tired of it.

Actually, many people who use bikes of any type either use them because of transportation/utility purposes, exercise, or because it is the "hip" or "cool" thing that their chosen crowd of allegiance commands them to participate in. Since you don't have money gushing out of your wallet, concentrate on buying a bike (not just a folding one) that fits you physically, psychologically, and of course in your pocketbook. Folding bicycles cost more than a similarly spec'd counterpart in other bike types and styles. The basic reason why I bought folding bikes over non-folding ones is exactly the same as the day I bought my first one, the Dahon Boardwalk-theft resistant in an high crime environment. Keep that in mind when you decide if a folding bike should be the one to get by you.


Yeah, I'd say go for a second-hand Dahon, a Vitesse or Speed depending on the type of frame you'd prefer. .


i will advise you to look elsewhere. check CL or ebay as what Joseph mentioned. a second hand dahon will be a better choice than a brand new Citizen.

Not really. I donated and sold both my Dahons because I could not get proprietary parts as easily-if at all-as I could with my "expensive" at purchase Brompton or even my almost 40 year old Raleigh Twenty. I don't just look at the price tag for new or even used anything anymore up front. I now look at the price of maintaining, repair (if possible), and long term (at least a decade) keeping of a product before I buy now. And I do buy less now than I did in 2007-the start of this present recession or whatever it is.



I went into Trophy Bikes today (Philly).

Great people who did a very bad thing... they demo'ed a Brompton for me!

Wow, great piece of engineering.

Wow at the price too. I am still going to get an entry level bike first (probably), but I now know what (and where) I will get as an upgrade if the bike bug sticks.

You said it yourself and I bold it above to rest my case. Though I would like to add that I hope that folding bikes (or any bike) won't become a passing fad or fancy to you.

i bought a used dahon boardwalk for $125 and i upgraded a lot of the parts. i changed the rear derailleur to an alviso shimano. i changed the crankset to a shimano 105 52/39T. changed the bottom bracket to a shimano hollowtech without problem. and i bet you that other parts can be upgraded, too.

Got a used Citizen Miami. I'll let you know how it goes... it IS heavy.

First impressions:

No chance to ride it yet, took my tools out and went over the bike. It came folded in the Citizen bike bag - a nice heavy duty bag in which I carried the bike home from the train, a six minute walk. Once home I took out the bike, unfolded it and tried to put it together.

My first oh oh moment came as I unfolded the handle, locked it into place and felt a lot of play. I remembered all the posts about folding bikes having play in the stem, then I noticed I had not latched the QR down. All slop gone!

I felt better about not test riding the bike once I noticed that one pedal was just about to fall off.

The Shimano derrailer needed a couple of turns to the phillips head adjustment screw to get it silent, a quick adjustment even for a newbie like me. The Revoshift falls into gears smartly.

Some things became clear that I had somehow missed from reading about the bike online. For one thing, it does have a secondary spring loaded latch mechanism in the main hinge, it also has a similar secondary device on the hinge for the folding stem. The black rims have their breaking surfaces machined for a very nice visual contrast, I wonder if other makers do this and how does this affect brake pad wear and performance.

The main hinge QR looks a lot beafier in person than in the website pics. If I'm able to convince myself to ride in to work tomorrow, I will post about actual on-road performance.

Maybe after reading all the posts here my expectations were low, but I have to say the bike looks very very nice.

welcome to the folding bike world. whatever bike you have - just have fun and enjoy the ride. you'll have more fun days with it.

I too am curious about the machined rim braking surface. I' ve had my Miami about a month now, rode it about 100 miles so far in really bad weather. Everything seems to holding up well, I am rough on bikes so this is a good sign .

Despite the Miami's increased weight I'd be more confident in it's frame's durability than say, the Gotham2, and would be my pick out of the line. IMHO that type of hinge design fares better when it's steel rather than aluminum.

I'm really interested in hearing about your experience with the Miami.

First impressions:

If I'm able to convince myself to ride in to work tomorrow, I will post about actual on-road performance.



Was your final review posted elsewhere?

I have used my Gotham1 for a few months and it has been superb so far. Light rider here at 155 lbs though. Bike seems sturdy enough though I ride it everywhere easily 10+ miles with ease. Light hills are not bad either even with the single speed.

From the use you are getting from it, the Gotham doesn't sound like a disposable bike to me, sounds like a bike a lot of people could make good use of.

I have the Citizen Tokyo (the smaller sister of the Miami) and by no means is it a "disposable bike" - after several reasonable upgrades (see 500 mile review post) it has proven to be a reliable and competant commuter for the past 3
+ months. I am 220lbs and ride with a 25 lb + pack and it has handled my size (25 lbs over the limit mind you) with ease. Couple that with EXCEPTIONAL customer service from Citizen and you have a real value for the $$. For us "Bigger Riders" I see the steel frame as an advantage - I can pick up the bike with ease by the seat post and hoist it up stairs, etc with little problem. Not sure how you can compare a Bike Friday at a significant $$$ price increase to this budget folder -would love a Friday but not in my budget...

I am also a pleased customer of Citizen and echo Geeyojos sentiments .

I have a Miami that i use for my rainy day folder for the past 6 months... it works fine for what it is.... cheap basic transport. Normally on a nice day like today I ride my giant Expressway 2 ....

Was your final review posted elsewhere?

I'd have to check as I honestly don't remember. I can say that I am very glad I got the Citizen Miami and will be riding it next week (I've been out of the country for the last few months).

I have used it as a grocery getter and just for fun on the weekends. I have enjoyed ridind it and have a better appreciation of the trade offs between it and a full sized bike.

I got one for my daughter. She loves it and it's perfect for casually riding around town with her friends. Best part is that I don't have to hitch it up to a rack. I can just throw it in my trunk and drop her off at a friends house so they can ride together. It doesn't get a ton of use but works well for a casual rider.

That is my favorite part is stowing it away in a trunk and going anywhere with it. I guess if I break down or run out of gas getting to help will be easy. Mine is used daily though 10+ miles.