"The 33"-Road Bike Racing - First Crit race today.

I went to the Early Bird Crit. today in Fremont Ca. There was a race clinic before the race. They had us doing pacelines with mentors, hitting the little smurfs in the road at speed, tried to show us how to corner, that kind of thing. Its hard for me to make most of the group rides in my area so this was helpful.
My friend crashed right in front of me during practice. The guy right in front of him locked his rear brake and my buddy touched his rear wheel, and went over the bars. I nearly creamed into him as I was on his wheel but managed to go to the right without too much contact, and stayed up. He broke his saddle and had to barrow another one. He ended up crossing the line second during the race so I guess it all worked out for him.
It was kinda scary at times. Some people couldnt figure out how to rotate, and lots of people were hitting the brakes near corners.
When the race was to start we lined up and since there was maybe 100 riders in the Cat 5 30-44 year olds, they split the field. I ended up starting in the front which was not part of my plan. Didnt seem to matter much though. I fell into mid pack after the first turn. One thing I learned I was doing wrong was not pedaling through the corners. I was doing way too much work after every corner. Next time I wont do this lol.
During the race the mentors were mixed in the field yelling helpful tips. If someone got dropped they would pace them back in. They didn't score the finish but we got points for starting.
All in all it was a great thing, and I liked it a lot. I will be out next week. The clinics last four weeks, and I am hoping to learn all I can before the races start in Feb.

The clinics sound great!


But I don't really advise pedaling through the corners. If you bring speed into the corner, you need to lean you bike and if you pedal you risk striking your pedal onto the ground. Instead, don't break and take the straightest, fastest possible line - entering the corner from the outside going inside at the apex and existing wide. Also, gear down before you enter the corner so when you start pedaling again (the instant the bike is mostly upright) you are in the appropriate gear to accelerate.

I did the same clinic and race. The clinic started out as expected, very unorganized, but eventually smoothed out in our group. When we got up to over 20mph doing pace lines the mentor told us to slow down because we were at race speed. That turned out to be a bit of an understatement because the actual race averaged about 26mph. I got dropped on the first lap and ended up in a 3-5 person chase most of the race, only to be lapped by the pack 25 minutes in. That was about when a mentor pointed out I had a busted spoke. I looked back to see my rear wheel wobbling and when I stopped the rim was firmly lodged against the brake. I heard a ping somewhere in the first lap so I can only guess how long I was riding with a rubbing brake. I was very discouraged at my performance but now I have to wonder if I could have kept up with the pack with a good wheel. My fastest lap was only 25mph. Not a good experience for my first race.

I did the same clinic and race. The clinic started out as expected, very unorganized, but eventually smoothed out in our group. When we got up to over 20mph doing pace lines the mentor told us to slow down because we were at race speed. That turned out to be a bit of an understatement because the actual race averaged about 26mph. I got dropped on the first lap and ended up in a 3-5 person chase most of the race, only to be lapped by the pack 25 minutes in. That was about when a mentor pointed out I had a busted spoke. I looked back to see my rear wheel wobbling and when I stopped the rim was firmly lodged against the brake. I heard a ping somewhere in the first lap so I can only guess how long I was riding with a rubbing brake. I was very discouraged at my performance but now I have to wonder if I could have kept up with the pack with a good wheel. My fastest lap was only 25mph. Not a good experience for my first race.

Forget about it - go try again.

The clinics sound great!


But I don't really advise pedaling through the corners. If you bring speed into the corner, you need to lean you bike and if you pedal you risk striking your pedal onto the ground. Instead, don't break and take the straightest, fastest possible line - entering the corner from the outside going inside at the apex and existing wide. Also, gear down before you enter the corner so when you start pedaling again (the instant the bike is mostly upright) you are in the appropriate gear to accelerate.

^wut? Although some corners are too sharp to pedal through most aren't. It's best to hold your line, follow the wheel in front of you, and pedal through to maintain speed. This will reduce the accordion effect of riding mid to back of the pack. Another option is to slow (or brake if necessary) early, let a small gap open, and then pedal through to maintain & increase speed as you re-attach to the group. +1 on gearing down on slower corners.

You didn't crash and you don't want to quit racing. It sounds like you "won" today. Welcome to the sport

Keep on sucking 'til you succeed. That's what kept me going last year!

But I don't really advise pedaling through the corners.

I thought the same thing thats why I wasnt pedaling, but the mentors were yelling to pedal through and I was getting shelled after every corner having to sprint to catchup as everyone else was pedaling through.

You didn't crash and you don't want to quit racing. It sounds like you "won" today. Welcome to the sport

Thanks, and yeah the not crashing, or causing a crash was top of the list of what not to do today.

I was there too. First crit for me. Was in the first group of U30 5s. Didn't really learn anything from the clinic but it was a good refresher.

During the race I just kept my head up and chilled out in the group. Was a nice ride once I got warm enough to feel my fingers and toes again. :)



But I don't really advise pedaling through the corners.

Negative. Easy corners. I had no problem soft pedaling through them at the speed we were going.


I thought the same thing thats why I wasnt pedaling, but the mentors were yelling to pedal through and I was getting shelled after every corner having to sprint to catchup as everyone else was pedaling through.

Yeah, only corner I think I sprinted out of was the last.

I was also there in the U30 cat5s. Having never raced in my life, I definitely did like how helpful the mentors were, and came to realize that I need to change my bars out as riding in the drops the whole time, I was noticing my wrists hitting the hoods pretty often. During the crits it was definitely cool to see how the entire peloton seemed to move as one unit, especially towards the final laps as we took the final turn. I think the coolest part though was how organized it was. I was expecting craziness for all laps, but it ended up being quite mellow and in my mind I was just like "oh, this isn't so bad".

I definitely plan on trying harder to move up in the race next week, as this week I stayed primarily in the back just to watch and see how everyone behaved.

Am sorry to hear about the crash in the 30+ :( I wish you all the best of luck in the coming weeks for the clinics, and I hope to see you all out there (I'll be in a Folsom Bike kit :) )

Forget about it - go try again.
+1. I was a complete disaster in most of the races in my first season. My first race was a rainy NorCal 4/5 crit in which I was dropped within two laps. I'm certainly no natural and I could have quit that first day and never looked back.

Now a couple years later I've got the points to be a 3.

Did anyone see the guy that came all the way from >>SALT LAKE CITY<< for the U30 CAT5?! I was floored when I heard where he came from. That is dedication right there.

I will be your mentor :)

I went too, did the 45+ men's cat 5, haven't raced in years and back then it was mostly mountain.

But I don't really advise pedaling through the corners.

You shouldn't advise on what you don't know.

I was there. Anybody in the U30 cat5 saw me pedaling easy off to the left of the road.

Got dropped after two laps and didn't have it in me any longer. So I decided to just wait for you guys to come around and pick me up so I could have some time in the group.

Did better in juniors. :p

The clinics sound great!


But I don't really advise pedaling through the corners. If you bring speed into the corner, you need to lean you bike and if you pedal you risk striking your pedal onto the ground. Instead, don't break and take the straightest, fastest possible line - entering the corner from the outside going inside at the apex and existing wide. Also, gear down before you enter the corner so when you start pedaling again (the instant the bike is mostly upright) you are in the appropriate gear to accelerate.

you don't race, huh? Not a whole lot of crits where you get to pick your line (especially THAT one) through corners.

Not all corners are created equal. The Fremont Early Birds are in a corporate park with big easy corners. You definitely want to pedal through those. Davis, on the other hand....

Yes the corners were easy. All the gravel, tree leaves, and broken pavement was a whole other thing. But then again I've never raced before, so I don't know if that is to be expected.

Oh, and congrats and welcome!

Congrats to all the NorCal participants and welcome.

Not all corners are created equal. The Fremont Early Birds are in a corporate park with big easy corners. You definitely want to pedal through those. Davis, on the other hand....

What you can pedal through them. I have a scrapped pedal to prove it. :lol:

What you can pedal through them. I have a scrapped pedal to prove it. :lol:

You can pedal through anything - you just might not be able to finish the corner :)

you don't race, huh? Not a whole lot of crits where you get to pick your line (especially THAT one) through corners.

I do race, actually. And you are right that the best line is often not available. But if riders takes care to position themselves well (ie, near the front), a pretty decent line is often available - I realize that this isn't always possible, and have taken a good deal of suboptimal lines in my life. However, I hate to advise new racers to pedals through corners (but granted, I didn't see the corners in discussion, and it sounds like they were pretty wide open and not too sharp) because in a fast race with skilled riders, even tight corners will be taken really fast, and pedaling through could be dangerous. I like new racers, and even experienced racers, to practice cornering at speed, and to practice taking different lines, and to safely get a feel for what corners can be pedaled through and/or the earliest possible point in the exit from a corner when one can start pedaling.

. . . but I do confess to being extra conservative in this regard, and have a teammate who is always pushing me in practice to start pedaling a couple of seconds earlier when exiting corners :-)

What kind of things did they cover before the clinic?

I'm thinking of (virtually committed to) doing a 5 week clinic for Cat 5s at the Bethel Spring Series. I'm wrestling with price, what racers want, and which topics need to be covered first.

A good foundation of "what to expect in racing" will set the tone for a generation of racers. I want to form a sound foundation for those that start at the Bethel Spring Series.

cdr

What kind of things did they cover before the clinic?

I'm thinking of (virtually committed to) doing a 5 week clinic for Cat 5s at the Bethel Spring Series. I'm wrestling with price, what racers want, and which topics need to be covered first.

A good foundation of "what to expect in racing" will set the tone for a generation of racers. I want to form a sound foundation for those that start at the Bethel Spring Series.

cdr

I'm in ;)
I think it is a great idea for you to put something like that together. Much like people should have to do an introduction course to a gym when they sign up.

I'm considering a bunch of things. First will be course specific so that there aren't huge pile ups on the first week. Then will be more general race things.

Bethel specific - "lane" philosophy on hill/corners (that's general but especially applicable to Bethel), caution on wind and reading wind direction (it's usually windy there). Also cautions on what happens when standing (for the hill in Bethel's case). This would have to be covered on the first week so riders don't take each other out.

Race general stuff - drafting closer but to the side; looking up; making sure your six is clear (i.e. behind) before moving over; patience; paceline basics; gearing basics; maintenance/bike-check basics; relative power figures; exploring physiological limits; concept of speed.

All concepts will be covered on the website first. Kind of a "required reading" thing before the clinic day. The reading will be available to all; the clinic only to those that pay.

I'm not sure how I'm going to be with the group, probably moped/scooter, maybe bike, maybe car.

Clinic will be separate permit, means Cat 5 race will be separate.

cdr

What kind of things did they cover before the clinic?


It was all about safe pack riding in a crit. Protect your front end, keep your head up, stay in the drops to prevent getting hooked, don't overlap wheels, look beyond the tire in front of you, carry speed through the turns, hold your line and stay predictable, feather your brakes, run a higher cadence so it's easier to modulate speed. Stuff like that. Plus a few practice laps with a rotating pace line with mentor people floating around, pointing out issues.

I believe this weekend is going to be cornering technique and strategy. Unfortunately I'm going to miss it as my snowboard and I will be suffering in Tahoe. ;)

What kind of things did they cover before the clinic?

I'm thinking of (virtually committed to) doing a 5 week clinic for Cat 5s at the Bethel Spring Series. I'm wrestling with price, what racers want, and which topics need to be covered first.

A good foundation of "what to expect in racing" will set the tone for a generation of racers. I want to form a sound foundation for those that start at the Bethel Spring Series.

cdr

On the pre ride talk they had a large board with things posted in bullet points such as, protecting your levers, staying in the drops, wheel overlap, keeping your shoulders and arms relaxed because of the crappy road, passing etc. They went over each point with examples from some of the mentors who came to the front and showed people each point, including pace line basics by walking their bikes in a proper rotation. What the wheel overlap looks like and so on.
We split into groups of maybe 20 riders. My group had four mentors. As I was looking at the schedule they had a class for mentors the week or so prior to the clinic for the mentors.
I don’t think it would have been possible without so many volunteers. There were maybe 100 cat 5's in the over 30, and half as many U30 it was a large crowd.
During the clinic the mentors took each group aside and went into more detail pace lines, lever cover, wheel over lap etc before we started. They put one mentor in the front and one in the rear with the two remaining floating. This seemed slow and at times boring, but after seeing some of the people not able to get the concept right away, to me became very valuable to my safety. One thing I would have done different is, the mentor in the front of our group was doing the explaining and imo should have just paced the line as we were having a hard time with the second line falling back fast enough, even when not pedaling. The line kept getting a slinky effect and we were unable to maintain a good line until the last lap when they let us go without the front mentor.
At the start line the official went over what they wanted and expected like number pinning, not sprinting for 10th place. They showed us where the sprint normally starts, for most people anyway.
Like I said, for someone who has never ever raced, like myself, it was cool. After a few laps at race speed it was a blessing as there were no crashes during the race with 100+ riders on the course. Something must have gone right. Next week they will go over corners in more detail, so each week will be something new in detail.
If you are planning on doing one of these, hats off to you. Its a good thing and it helps take the intimidation factor out of it. Its nice to be able to ask stupid questions from people who don’t mind answering them. It also was nice to meet a bunch of people I will prob race with for a long time.

It also was nice to meet a bunch of people I will prob race with for a long time.


I wonder how valuable this is, and if it can be enhanced in a clinic.

What kind of things did they cover before the clinic?

I'm thinking of (virtually committed to) doing a 5 week clinic for Cat 5s at the Bethel Spring Series. I'm wrestling with price, what racers want, and which topics need to be covered first.

A good foundation of "what to expect in racing" will set the tone for a generation of racers. I want to form a sound foundation for those that start at the Bethel Spring Series.

cdr

That Early Bird clinics are an institution here in the Bay Area. They have been holding them in the same location for the last 20+ years. The series is 5 weeks long. The clinics are aimed at new men's 5's, women's 4's and juniors. Each week builds upon what was learned the previous week. This week was pacelines, holding your line and basic pack skills. Next week is cornering. I think the last 3 weeks are: breakaways, sprinting, and putting it all together. Clinics run around 45 minutes and they split groups up into managable sizes of a dozen or so. Each sub group has 3 or 4 mentors working with them. It really is a great way to get into the sport. I did them in 2009 and really appreciated the instruction I recieved.

You can pedal through anything - you just might not be able to finish the corner :)

Details! :p Yes you do need to be careful and judge the lean angle, ground clearance, and re-evaluate on every corner. Even if you have taken it a dozen times already. Ask me how I know. :lol:

Derail: Anyone recommend a fast group ride/ training crit in the San Francisco Area? I"ll be driving up there in two days and would like to get in a few group rides while there..

Thanks

If you want to go down the peninsula a little, the Alto Velo weekend rides are good.

There is also The Noon Ride down here, during the week.

http://www.altovelo.org/ride_calendar/index.php

This seemed slow, cold and at times boring, but after seeing some of the people not able to get the concept right away, to me became very valuable to my safety.

+1 and edited. ;)

Congrats on your first race!

RE: pedaling through. It's not the most important cornering skill, true; I was opposed to it for awhile, because the most important aspect to cornering fast is coming into the turn with the maximum possible speed. But then I found that I really did get gapped a bit in crits if I didn't manage at least a couple of pedal strokes in the turn. The thing is that everyone is entering the corner at a similar speed, which is less than the maximum speed you can go through solo, and everyone is pedaling as far into the turn as they can manage. In some corners, that might only be a couple of rotations, but if you're not pedaling, it's enough to put a gap into you.

During solo riding or high-speed descending, yes, pedaling through the corner is pretty unimportant. Taking a good line and not losing too much speed is much more critical than accelerating out, since you can't regain speed nearly as efficiently as losing it. And that's why, in a crit, you really need to pedal through the turn, because closing that gap is a lot harder than just keeping the pedals turning into the corner.

Originally Posted by carpediemracing
What kind of things did they cover before the clinic?


I don't know if this is relevant, but I found this video on youtube.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pIlxQjfOIcg

She's coaching and there's lots of "Early Bird" on people.

If you pick the right lines, you can recover/save energy in the corners as people struggle to catch up while you just keep speed and get past them.

This advice is making a lot of sense.


If you pick the right lines, you can recover/save energy in the corners as people struggle to catch up while you just keep speed and get past them.

grolby,

Taking a good line and not losing too much speed is much more critical than accelerating out, since you can't regain speed nearly as efficiently as losing it.

I think this may be more of my problem. I was looking at some pics taken at the race and my lines through the corners, it looks like I am cutting the corners too soon. The turns are flat. I think taking a large wide arch through the turn would make more sense. As you you guys have pointed out, you can carry your speed through the turn. Thanks. And thanks for all the replies from everyone. See what happens this weekend.

I wish all CAT 4/5 crits gave clinics like that. Crits, particularly the ones in residential neighborhoods seem to draw a lot of first-time “I’ll give this racing thing a shot” types. I think a 1-mile loop through a neighborhood is less intimidating for non-racers than a long road race. Realistically, a technical crit is about the worst place to get one’s racing feet wet.

I think this may be more of my problem. I was looking at some pics taken at the race and my lines through the corners, it looks like I am cutting the corners too soon. The turns are flat. I think taking a large wide arch through the turn would make more sense. As you you guys have pointed out, you can carry your speed through the turn. Thanks. And thanks for all the replies from everyone. See what happens this weekend.

Yes - cutting into corners seems intuitively faster, but is actually much slower. You go into the corner real hot, but then you need to scrub speed like crazy to avoid coming out too wide and coming off the course or hitting another rider. You don't want to turn in too early - a later turn in gives you a wider line, is smoother, safer and faster (but don't overdo it; turning in too late is also slow). But again, your choice of lines in a race is fairly limited. Try and identify a good wheel - someone who is smooth and doesn't seem to lose position on most corners - and follow that guy for a while. That's a good way to learn. Practice, practice, practice.

]As crits seem to be my specialty let me tell you my cornering strategy and a few other things.
First off I ride almost entirely on the hoods - very rarely do I go on the drops unless I am sprinting - it suits me better for braking etc. I have attached a pic of my new BMC build so you can see where my brake/shift levers are placed (though I should e changing bikes again in a month or so).186023
When getting ready for a crit I tend to walk the course first to paint a picture in my head as to what to expect for corners (I generally know the ones I will pedal through but still want to take a look). When riding the course for the frst time I usually ride it slow and visualize where I want to go.
Pedaling through corners is an aquired skill that takes time but you have to evaluate the merits of pedaling through. If it is the last corner before the finish line you better figure out how you are going to pedal through it - it will help with your jump to the line. If there is truly nothing to gain from pedaling through then don't. I was in a crit last year, bridged the gap to the break, dropped one of the two guys and then on the last lap with about 1/2 a mile to go the guy that was left in the break with me pedaled through the corner, clicked his pedal and wrecked in front to of me, taking me down with him. Left me with a broken wrist and seperated shoulder. As we were more than 30 seconds in front of the group there was nothing to gain for him to pedal through and subsequently we both crashed out.
If I cannot pedal through the entire corner I always pedal two full pedal strokes at the start of the corner then coast through the rest. I cannot tell you why I do this it is just something I do.
Pick your line and stick with it, the worst thing you can do is change your line, go on the brakes or make sudden movements in the corner. This also comes with experience as does getting used to feeling someone's knuckles bump off yours at 20+ mph.
The biggest thing that is going to allow you to race well is to relax and stay calm (If you have ever seen me race you would know how funny this sounds coming from me). If you tense up and are stiff on the bike it makes cornering much more difficult, stay calm and limber and you will be good. Many times I have had guys leaning on me or had their handlebars inside mine, if you want to make it out of the corner safely everyone has to relax. If he/she rode their to begin with it is possible to stay there until you can ride out of the situation.
Also remember a smooth line is faster than a jittery line just like a smooth race car driver is faster than one that just points and shoots then brakes hard only to point and shoot again.

]
First off I ride almost entirely on the hoods - very rarely do I go on the drops unless I am sprinting - it suits me better for braking etc.

Nothing personal, but my immediate reaction to this is, "DISREGARD ALL ADVICE FROM THIS RIDER." If you feel better on the hoods, there is something wrong with your fit, your handlebar setup, or your confidence. You're faster in the drops, you're more stable in the drops, you can better protect your bars from getting hooked in the drops, braking is better in the drops.

I don't know, maybe you've been racing for 20 years and this works for you, and if so I'd love to hear more about it. But advising someone that you spend most of your time on the hoods (and from the picture of your setup, I'm unsurprised) and that this is actually better, well, that raises a red flag for me.

I'm just curious how he rides with a foot of steerer tube sticking out the top.

I'm just curious how he rides with a foot of steerer tube sticking out the top.

Like I said new bike being built - being cut today. Cracked another frame just before Christmas.

Nothing personal, but my immediate reaction to this is, "DISREGARD ALL ADVICE FROM THIS RIDER." If you feel better on the hoods, there is something wrong with your fit, your handlebar setup, or your confidence. You're faster in the drops, you're more stable in the drops, you can better protect your bars from getting hooked in the drops, braking is better in the drops.

I don't know, maybe you've been racing for 20 years and this works for you, and if so I'd love to hear more about it. But advising someone that you spend most of your time on the hoods (and from the picture of your setup, I'm unsurprised) and that this is actually better, well, that raises a red flag for me.

Believe what you want but as we both live in the same area why don't you and I go for a ride together :)

Nothing personal, but my immediate reaction to this is, "DISREGARD ALL ADVICE FROM THIS RIDER." If you feel better on the hoods, there is something wrong with your fit, your handlebar setup, or your confidence. You're faster in the drops, you're more stable in the drops, you can better protect your bars from getting hooked in the drops, braking is better in the drops.

I don't know, maybe you've been racing for 20 years and this works for you, and if so I'd love to hear more about it. But advising someone that you spend most of your time on the hoods (and from the picture of your setup, I'm unsurprised) and that this is actually better, well, that raises a red flag for me.

Now let's take a look at two of the best sprinters in the world and how their setup is:
Mark Cavendish:
186028

Tyler Farrar:
186030

Me (rkwaki):
186032

I'll take a better pic of mine but they are all similar (might be a bad pic that I posted)

Nothing personal, but my immediate reaction to this is, "DISREGARD ALL ADVICE FROM THIS RIDER." If you feel better on the hoods, there is something wrong with your fit, your handlebar setup, or your confidence. You're faster in the drops, you're more stable in the drops, you can better protect your bars from getting hooked in the drops, braking is better in the drops.

I don't know, maybe you've been racing for 20 years and this works for you, and if so I'd love to hear more about it. But advising someone that you spend most of your time on the hoods (and from the picture of your setup, I'm unsurprised) and that this is actually better, well, that raises a red flag for me.

One further thing then I will stop defending myself I never recommended riding entirely on the hoods - I said "I ride almost entirely on the hoods", there is a difference between stating what I do versus a recommendation.
As I said, you want to train sometime, hit me up, you can correct my 'fit' :)

Like I said new bike being built - being cut today. Cracked another frame just before Christmas.

which size did you end up choosing?