Advocacy & Safety - Class I Bike Facilities, Safe?

Not always: http://www.ocregister.com/news/pacific-283355-injured-coast.html

The two cars crashed near Pacific Coast Highway and Seapoint Avenue, tumbling down an embankment and onto a trail, where the bicyclist was riding...

Sure, Class 1 facilities are plenty safe... as long as you keep cars off of them.

The "fail" in this story is the the two motorists that couldn't stay out of each others' way. And jeeze, both cars were going in the same direction and managed to crash... how crazy is that?

Imagine how the cyclist may have fared if he (she) had been on the street, taking a lane at the time?

The vehicles were racing. If the cyclist had been hit by these fools on the roadway there, squished sounds about right. The PCH in that area is usually very heavy with cyclists on the weekends, on the road and the path. I'm surprised no one else got hit by those cretins.

We had something similar happen here, I think twice, without anyone getting hit. It's not something you think much about, but it is a possibility.

I used to ride the trail all the time, but I didn't think anything of it. I was still much more worried about the places where the trail crossed roads.

Cool story CritEastwood, thanks for posting.

We have a very nice bike path here that parallels the 56 freeway... over the years there have been a few points along the path where the chain link fence has been severely damaged by cars hitting the fence. I know of at least one spot where it was obvious that a car drove in and then out causing large holes in the fence.

I don't know of any cases where someone has been injured by such an intrusion.

Midtown Greenway, Minneapolis, MN
http://images.cheezburger.com/completestore/2010/9/20/84e15d26-b121-4150-b580-7550df8ec6dc.jpg

We have a very nice bike path here that parallels the 56 freeway... over the years there have been a few points along the path where the chain link fence has been severely damaged by cars hitting the fence. I know of at least one spot where it was obvious that a car drove in and then out causing large holes in the fence.

I don't know of any cases where someone has been injured by such an intrusion.

The SARTP has a few of those old fence holes (some repaired) where it closely parallels the 91 East of Featherly Park.

The SARTP has a few of those old fence holes (some repaired) where it closely parallels the 91 East of Featherly Park.

Kinda makes you wonder just what kind of folks out there can't manage to keep their cars on the road.

Not really because Count Drunkulas are everywhere.

This is something like the increase in motorists crashing into each other close to where a new, segregated bike facility was installed in Vancouver.

Like it was somehow, the cyclists fault that motorists rear-ended each other.

http://www.vancourier.com/news/ICBC+report+prompts+calls+cycling+safety+program/3673230/story.html#ixzz12emMswzw

I think this is in the category of "when your number is up." This sort of thing happens occasionally along large roads because there is a part of the driving public that is insane, and our system doesn't seem to be capable of finding and stopping those people.

various studies have shown that bicycle facilities ARE SAFER than roadway bicycling...

John Pucher and Jennifer Dill are two of the most credible bicycle transportation researchers here in North America, their findings indicate

"Pucher's various transnational studies of bicycle transportation lead him to conclude: "the overwhelming evidence is that cycling is much safer and more popular precisely in those countries where bikeways, bike lanes, special intersection modifications, and priority traffic signals are the key to their bicycling policies. ...
The authors of a 2009 meta-study on cycle infrastructure safety research at the University of British Columbia similarly conclude that "in comparison to cycling on bicycle-specific infrastructure (paths, lanes, routes), on-road cycling appears to be less safe."

various studies have shown that bicycle facilities ARE SAFER than roadway bicycling...

John Pucher and Jennifer Dill are two of the most credible bicycle transportation researchers here in North America, their findings indicate

"Pucher's various transnational studies of bicycle transportation lead him to conclude: "the overwhelming evidence is that cycling is much safer and more popular precisely in those countries where bikeways, bike lanes, special intersection modifications, and priority traffic signals are the key to their bicycling policies. ...
The authors of a 2009 meta-study on cycle infrastructure safety research at the University of British Columbia similarly conclude that "in comparison to cycling on bicycle-specific infrastructure (paths, lanes, routes), on-road cycling appears to be less safe."

Bek, chill. Read the link in the OP before flooding the thread with all sorts of pro-bike path stuff.

This isn't about the safety of bike paths, but how stupid some motorists can be.

Gene, chill. I've read the link.

i find this type of commentary misleading. the humor is crass.

Wow, a car went out of control. Let's use this to vaguely disparage bike paths??? please. Maybe Crit should avoid roadway cycling as well.

Someone says, "bike paths aren't always safe'?

It must be mentioned that they have been found safer than riding in the midst of motor vehicle traffic.

this is like the forester bikepath extrapolations :roflmao: with a sample of one.

Forester is currently under the ban stick.

Ride the SARTP in Orange County, CA from Corona to Huntington Beach this coming Saturday afternoon and get back with me on how safe all Class I bicycle facilities are.

You won't, but will keep quoting meaningless "studies".

quite the stretch to call a 2009 meta analysis of existing bicycle research meaningless! :lol:

yes, bikeways and bikepaths are by and large found to be safer for bicyclists than riding amidst the motor vehicle traffic. There's a host of other benefits associated with bike facilities, but i won't bring those up because that would be off topic.

I'm surprised you can leave the house. You do realize accidents occur on the roads as well?

Good luck out there! Stiff upper lip, cheerio and all that, chap!

Ride the SARTP in Orange County, CA from Corona to Huntington Beach this coming Saturday afternoon and get back with me on how safe all Class I bicycle facilities are.

What's wrong with the SARTP?

Where is the SARTP in Orange County... I read near 91... What makes this path so "unsafe." (most likely it is the intersections... I am guessing here, but intersections tend to be the weak points in any path as paths are often merely sidewalks that have been designated for bikes.)

... Wow, a car went out of control. Let's use this to vaguely disparage bike paths??? please.

After ICBC came out with the report about the increased collisions on the road near the new bike lane on the BSB, Business in Vancouver magazine printed,


Cycling advocates' biggest argument for separated bike lanes is that they make cycling safer...But initial Insurance Corporation of British Columbia statistics show that the Burrard Street separated bike lane has made driving a motor vehicle more
dangerous.

and they weren't the only ones suggesting cyclists were to blame for the actions of dumb motorists

Where is the SARTP in Orange County... I read near 91... What makes this path so "unsafe." (most likely it is the intersections... I am guessing here, but intersections tend to be the weak points in any path as paths are often merely sidewalks that have been designated for bikes.)
The users, especially the two-wheeled ones make it unsafe. The varying degrees of experience added in with the egotistical attitudes of Southern Californians and amount of them who will be out there this coming Saturday (the forecast is sunny and 75 degrees) will make it unsafe. There is no "study" of canadican FAIL that can tell anyone otherwise.

http://www.santaanarivertrail.org/home.html

Lower Trail:

Proximity to the ocean in the lower portions of the Trail is a draw for outdoor recreation in Orange County. The beach provides recreational opportunities found nowhere else in the Santa Ana Watershed. This is the most heavily used portion of the Trail, attracting thousands of users on a weekend.
This section of trail is operated and maintained by OC Parks.

The users, especially the two-wheeled ones make it unsafe. The varying degrees of experience added in with the egotistical attitudes of Southern Californians and amount of them who will be out there this coming Saturday (the forecast is sunny and 75 degrees) will make it unsafe. There is no "study" of canadican FAIL that can tell anyone otherwise.

http://www.santaanarivertrail.org/home.html

Lower Trail:

Proximity to the ocean in the lower portions of the Trail is a draw for outdoor recreation in Orange County. The beach provides recreational opportunities found nowhere else in the Santa Ana Watershed. This is the most heavily used portion of the Trail, attracting thousands of users on a weekend.
This section of trail is operated and maintained by OC Parks.

I have to wonder when the users of a path make it "unsafe," as deemed by others, what the users think... do they find it "unsafe?" Further, I have to wonder what is meant by "unsafe," by comparison... riding a bike in the street? The latter brings the potential of being hit by a heavy, fast motor vehicle... compared to... running into an "egotistical Southern Californian" roller blade skater??

I think I'd take the path.

Forester is currently under the ban stick.

Ride the SARTP in Orange County, CA from Corona to Huntington Beach this coming Saturday afternoon and get back with me on how safe all Class I bicycle facilities are.

You won't, but will keep quoting meaningless "studies".

Years ago I saw a study that showed (I think not adjusted for severity of accident) that bike paths were both the safest and most dangerous place to ride.

Safest if bike only, most dangerous if MUP. I think Class I facilities are supposed to be bikes only, but I've seen enough to know fact does not always match nominal status.

(Come to think of it I can think of some sections of the Beach path between Santa Monica and Palos Verdes where the same section is ideal at 8 am and MUP dangerous at 10 am).

I have to wonder when the users of a path make it "unsafe," as deemed by others, what the users think... do they find it "unsafe?" Further, I have to wonder what is meant by "unsafe," by comparison... riding a bike in the street? The latter brings the potential of being hit by a heavy, fast motor vehicle... compared to... running into an "egotistical Southern Californian" roller blade skater??

I think I'd take the path.

I only remember one skater that was a problem, unless you count the times very talented skaters were able to weave safely through the slow masses and made me green with envy.

My problems were always with pedestrians or cyclists who would spread out and take at least the whole of the path going their way. For me it usually was limited to making part of a ride miserable. I always went with miserable on the ride was better than miserable for days with road rash.

Years ago I saw a study that showed (I think not adjusted for severity of accident) that bike paths were both the safest and most dangerous place to ride.

Safest if bike only, most dangerous if MUP. I think Class I facilities are supposed to be bikes only, but I've seen enough to know fact does not always match nominal status.

(Come to think of it I can think of some sections of the Beach path between Santa Monica and Palos Verdes where the same section is ideal at 8 am and MUP dangerous at 10 am).

The SARTP in Orange county is classified by the OCTA as a Class I Bikeway. It is also a MUP, however the only user groups legally allowed on it are equestrian, pedestrian and bicyclists. The zoo that it is with unauthorized scofflaw users (bladers, skateboarders, mopeds, etc.) and people who can barely pedal to stay upright makes me take to the streets where I can move much faster in a safe manner.

Isn't it wonderful how a canadican "study" on the matter can be such a sieve, especially as far as the dynamic conditions of Class I Bikeways?

I have to wonder when the users of a path make it "unsafe," as deemed by others, what the users think... do they find it "unsafe?" Further, I have to wonder what is meant by "unsafe," by comparison... riding a bike in the street?
Try it out at 3AM, when bums and gangbangers are the majority of the population there. Do you think the "sunday-funday" swervin mervin horde who clog it up on weekend afternoons might find it unsafe at 3AM? I'd wager they do. I don't and would rather deal with a few bums and bangers than count drunkula behind the wheel on the roadway. Hence, the canadican study our northwet freind is quoting doesn't mean diddly squat.

Class I Bike Facilities, Safe?


Not always.

Try it out at 3AM, when bums and gangbangers are the majority of the population there. Do you think the "sunday-funday" swervin mervin horde who clog it up on weekend afternoons might find it unsafe at 3AM? I'd wager they do. I don't and would rather deal with a few bums and bangers than count drunkula behind the wheel on the roadway. Hence, the canadican study our northwet freind is quoting doesn't mean diddly squat.

Class I Bike Facilities, Safe?


Not always.

Hey, 3AM... you're liable to be dodging drunks on any urban roadway at that time....

As far as the "sunday-funday" crowd... sounds like any urban freeway or arterial road twice a day during the work week.

As far as "that report" goes, since it doesn't compare severity of any injury, but merely counts numbers... that means a skinned knee has the same weighting as a broken leg... hardly valid. I can put a bandaid on a skinned knee, but that broken leg is going to take a lot more treatment.

I can't tell here, (due to funky writing styles) but I think we are in agreement... that in spite of the hordes that may appear on a path, a path is probably safer than a roadway.

Bottom line: keep cars off the paths, and the paths are safe enough.

(I know, I know, someone is going to come along and whine... "well I can't go like a bat out of hell on a crowded MUP...") Tough... you can't drive like a bat out of hell on a crowded roadway either, or run like a bat out of hell on a crowded sidewalk.

The reason I reposted the title was to reiterate my point, Class I Bikeways are not always safe. Whatever our northwet friend read into it is his problem.

Try it out at 3AM, when bums and gangbangers are the majority of the population there. Do you think the "sunday-funday" swervin mervin horde who clog it up on weekend afternoons might find it unsafe at 3AM? I'd wager they do. I don't and would rather deal with a few bums and bangers than count drunkula behind the wheel on the roadway. Hence, the canadican study our northwet freind is quoting doesn't mean diddly squat.

Class I Bike Facilities, Safe?


Not always.

I see, your posting a photo of a car flipped over on a bike path and your personal recollections of how the bike path is safer than the roads somehow is supposed to be a warning to other cyclists.

Those colorful depictions of the public might be more funny to you but are hardly more credible than a meta-analysis by some of the foremost researchers in the fields of active transportation and bicycle transportation planning.


Interesting, that, if a bit muddled and seemingly unsupported in the annals of transportation research. So, you think the path in Orange County you ride on is safer when, exactly?





right.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_zaf8sBslDz8/RhAc3SKsUKI/AAAAAAAAABc/W80yP28qdvQ/s320/charlie-brown-learning.gif

I'm not sure what the actual message is - perhaps "life is unsafe, avoid outside activities?"

Motorists these days are atrocious.

The reason I reposted the title was to reiterate my point, Class I Bikeways are not always safe. Whatever our northwet friend read into it is his problem.

People die in their own bathtubs too... enough that the home bathroom is statistically a "dangerous area." I don't see folks avoiding their own bathrooms.

The SARTP area was dangerous for this fellow: http://www.ocregister.com/news/body-283981-beach-river.html

The SARTP area was dangerous for this fellow: http://www.ocregister.com/news/body-283981-beach-river.html

Sounds more like the river was a hazard than the trail itself...


The body of a man was discovered in the middle of the Santa Ana River bed Thursday morning, authorities said.

Huntington Beach police got a 911 call about 9:30 a.m. after a passer-by noticed a body on a sandbar in the riverbed near Adams Avenue and Brookhurst Street, Huntington Beach Fire Capt. Mike McClanahan said.
Article Tab : Huntington Beach police officers and an Orange County Sheriff Department deputy climb up from the Santa Ana River, right, while investigating a body spotted Thursday morning lying on a sandbar.
Huntington Beach police officers and an Orange County Sheriff Department deputy climb up from the Santa Ana River, right, while investigating a body spotted Thursday morning lying on a sandbar.

The body appeared to have been there for a while, McClanahan said.

The Orange County Sheriff's Department arrived on the scene at around 10 a.m. and is handling the investigation, since it has jurisdiction over the Santa Ana River.

"As far as we know, it's not suspicious at this point," sheriff's Lt. Mike Jansen said.

Winter storms created strong flows of water in the riverbed, but the water now is moving at a slow flow and at a level where people can walk through it in some spots, authorities said.

Sheriff's spokesman Jim Amormino said the coroner is examining the body to determine when and how the man died.

People die in their own bathtubs too... enough that the home bathroom is statistically a "dangerous area." I don't see folks avoiding their own bathrooms.

The SARTP area was dangerous for this fellow: http://www.ocregister.com/news/body-283981-beach-river.html

Sounds more like the river was a hazard than the trail itself...
The jury is out on this particular incident until the OCSD is done investigating. I would not be in the least bit surprised if it happened to be a transient-on-transient crime.

More than just a few paranoids view this particular Class I Bike path as "dangerous" in that particular manner and I can keep dropping sources if you want: http://www.yelp.com/biz/santa-ana-river-trail-orange#hrid:Tl-BSw9jbeosWPhFtQQjCg

a commentary on whether cycling paths are safer than roads.

You missed a spot:

Class I Bike Facilities, Safe?


Not always

The reason I reposted the title was to reiterate my point, Class I Bikeways are not always safe. Whatever our northwet friend read into it is his problem.

The path next to teh Orange Line in the San Fernando Valley is a Class I Bike path. I'm betting that when (not if when) the accidents happen they will not be counted as being on a bike path!

Why? Because this path crosses scores of streets and for every crossing there is a sign that says bike path end and another that says start on the other side. Over 90% of the accidents will be on these crossings. They will be accidents for people riding the bike path and will be counted as street accidents.

This is especially something to thnk about, not just for this path but in general if advising others, especially children, to use paths. Actually this path has some very nice sections, and some very nasty ones.

The reason I reposted the title was to reiterate my point, Class I Bikeways are not always safe. Whatever our northwet friend read into it is his problem.

Of course. It's ridiculous to think a class I path is always safe.

Of course. It's ridiculous to think a class I path is always safe.
Almost as ridiculous as other panacean cycling "cure-alls", like the "lifesaving" foam hats.

The path next to teh Orange Line in the San Fernando Valley is a Class I Bike path. I'm betting that when (not if when) the accidents happen they will not be counted as being on a bike path!

Why? Because this path crosses scores of streets and for every crossing there is a sign that says bike path end and another that says start on the other side. Over 90% of the accidents will be on these crossings. They will be accidents for people riding the bike path and will be counted as street accidents.

This is especially something to thnk about, not just for this path but in general if advising others, especially children, to use paths. Actually this path has some very nice sections, and some very nasty ones.
That path suffers greatly from the Seven P Rule. I'd rather ride on the roadway there, even late at night.