Long Distance Competition/Ultracycling, Randonneuring and Endurance Cycling - Frame builder fit or bike fitter

Hello
I’m not really sure where this should go but choose here because I’m hoping to get into brevets. I’m coming back to long distance bicycling after twenty years and I need a new bike.

I live in Japan and all of the bikes are here are too small so there is no easy option and no test rides. I’m oddly shaped and have had some sports injuries which might affect fit. I don’t feel comfortable ordering a bike off the internet. I tried this a couple of years ago and it didn’t work out well. Considering price, wait times and the best chance for getting a good fit, I have narrowed it down to two alternatives.

Option 1 SW Watanabe He’s a framebuilder in Tokyo. He’s old school around 70 years old with over 50 years of experience. He has experience from French Randonneu style bikes to Keirin bikes. In talking to him he still has a lot of passion for making bicycles. He would measure me, measure my present bike, look at how I rode it and make the new bike. This would be the easiest option.

Option 2 I have a business trip to Australia coming up. I could make an appointment with Steve Hogg a bike fitter in Sydney who seems well respected. My impression is he is close to a physical trainer in that he looks at the biomechanics of fit. As I understand it, he would give me a CAD drawing. I could hand the drawing over to a builder, who would probably be in the US or UK. Or I could look for a production bike based on his recommendations. I would have a local bike shop build it up. This seems like a lot of hands that the bike would need to pass through. In ordering clothes (I can’t fit into Japanese clothes either), I have found that it is important that the person who decides the sizing is the one who makes the clothes. Not sure if this is important for bikes. On the other hand using Mr. Hogg could be the chance for the most accurate fit especially if I am very difficult to fit.

I’m unsure which option to choose. Any advice would be welcome.
Mike

well.. personally i'd go with the builder over the fitter, primarily because i always seem to find that science gets in the way of things working properly... ;) i'd pretty much go with qualitative any day.

seriously though-- if a man's built comfortable bikes for 50 years-- fit is complicated-- but it really doesn't take CAD drawings. it takes a good mind for doing such things, and the patience, tools, and smarts to do it. just my take though.

I have to say that having a Watanabe would be nice. Depends on what kind of bike you really want.

You might want to consider Toei also. They've been around just this side of forever, and make some of the nicest constructeur bikes anywhere.

I'd probably go see the Aussie fitter, take the results to my builder and ask, "Take a look at this - what do YOU say?" Any builder worth his salt (worth his flux?) is going to have his own ideas of how a bike should fit, and IME, no two fitters will set you up the same. I've been fitted several times over the years, and the results have been all over the map - the most recent one raised my saddle 4cm (!!!) from where it had been for many years. It's migrating back down, but still significantly higher than it used to be.

SP
Bend, OR

I would go with the builder. He will be local and he will have more ownership of the end product.

Thanks for the replies. I’m leaning towards the frame builder now.

I will need to think about using the fitter and Watanabe. This would put me over budget and it may not add anything since Watanabe does have his own way of doing things.

I did contact TOEI originally but their wait time is a year. I would have lost another season so I expanded my search. I read that Watanabe worked for TOEI as his first job.

Mike

If at all possible, go with Watanabe. If you really do want a Toei, go for it. But ya, wait time is over a year and you'll spend more than you thought possible on a bike so pretty you'll be afraid to use it. Something else you can do is contact Jitensha Studios in San Francisco. They can help you find a good builder in Japan. There are 3 shops in Japan he contracts to build his frames. Chances are, many an Ebisu were built at Toei.

I agree it would be great to consult with a builder, but. Steve hogg is one of the premier fitters in the world. It might be worth it just to consult with him even if you get a bike from a custom builder. Especially since you said you are oddly shaped and have some injuries. This puts you further on the fringes to conform to a specific builders fit preferences.