Long Distance Competition/Ultracycling, Randonneuring and Endurance Cycling - Great summation and overview of dynamo powered lights

Great web work here (http://www.xs4all.nl/~swhs/fiets/tests/verlichting/index_en.html#Accu-lamp-P7)

Including some lamp shots, reviews, and discussion of how much speed you may lose when you run your dyno hub...

That's got a lot of useful info, thanks for posting!

Very interesting, although my brief scan suggests that this author's conclusions are quite subjective and differ pretty wildly from most of the other reviews out there. See for example the review of dynamo hubs by Bicycle Quarterly (particularly page 2):
http://www.bikequarterly.com/VBQgenerator.html

Aggree there subjective, I've only used the Busch & Müller IQ Cyo RT which he really doesn't like, I have used it on long night rides and found no issues with it on any unlit roads. For daylight running lights, as long as they make you more visible to other road users, does it really matter that they have a purple tinge (not seen it with mine)

I've read the bikeforums here for a long time but never got round to posting here. I'll do that for the 2 responses above though which don't seem to grasp my tests...



Aggree there subjective, I've only used the Busch & Müller IQ Cyo RT which he really doesn't like, I have used it on long night rides and found no issues with it on any unlit roads. For daylight running lights, as long as they make you more visible to other road users, does it really matter that they have a purple tinge (not seen it with mine)


Does it matter if they are red? They are supposed to be white or yellow. The other problems are the beam form with the Cyo RT. As explained. If you have no problem with it, fine, but saying my reviews are subjective is BS. If you don't think my criticisms are of interest to you then don't take those into account when making a decision. The criticism is still valid.

And then this one:


Very interesting, although my brief scan suggests that this author's conclusions are quite subjective and differ pretty wildly from most of the other reviews out there. See for example the review of dynamo hubs by Bicycle Quarterly (particularly page 2):
http://www.bikequarterly.com/VBQgenerator.html

No my conclusions are not subjective and do not differ wildly except with poorly done and/or incomplete reviews. See my criticism of the Tour article for example. And I don't like the SON28 because of the vibrations. Didn't see that mentioned anywhere? That's because most people didn't bother to write that down and depending on your bike/tyre mass etc., you could get a nasty shock and hate it. I only found others mentioning it briefly in a few places this longer after buying the SON28 and hating it for that. Then I did a search and finally found 2 or 3 people mentioning it. This is far less of an issue with other hubs, so a valid criticism, not subjective.

And as to the bikequarterly.com article: That only takes into account mechanical qualities, whereas my point is that just about any dynohub is good enough, taking one that costs a little extra power, cost you just about no speed at all, so the vibration issue is more important as you WILL notice that on many bikes (at least of asphalt roads).

Another issue btw. with that bike quarterly article is the table at the end saying the total power to ride 50 km/h is 500W. That's complete and utter BS on any standard bike. You can only get to 50 km/h on time trial bike with time trial outfit and riding in a time trail position with 500W. Therefore the 130W for 30 km/h is also ridiculously low and speed cost calculations therefore are also not correct.

Good review.
I don't get why you are so down on the Cyo RT though.
Looks about as good as the Philips.
Arguably the beam is a little wider and has a brighter spot(perhaps would throw as good if aimed higher).
Cyo:
http://www.xs4all.nl/~swhs/fiets/tests/verlichting/lichtbundel/lichtbundels-2010-11-18/thumbnail360/BM_cyo_rt-s-0.75m.jpg

Philips:
http://www.xs4all.nl/~swhs/fiets/tests/verlichting/Philips_saferide_led_dynamo/lichtbundel/thumbnail360/f3.5-iso80-4s-1.05m-weg2.jpg

I've used a SON28 and Shimano higher quality dynohub. I didn't notice any vibrations with either unit with light on or off.

I've read the bikeforums here for a long time but never got round to posting here. I'll do that for the 2 responses above though which don't seem to grasp my tests...
...
Another issue btw. with that bike quarterly article is the table at the end saying the total power to ride 50 km/h is 500W. That's complete and utter BS on any standard bike. You can only get to 50 km/h on time trial bike with time trial outfit and riding in a time trail position with 500W. Therefore the 130W for 30 km/h is also ridiculously low and speed cost calculations therefore are also not correct.

Your article is very interesting, thanks for taking the time and work to post it. But generally, I'd comment that when responding to people's posts above, over-reacting to the mildest criticism of your article is not balanced and therefore does not inspire confidence in your testing methodology.

Given your description of what you want in a light -- particularly the need for the light to work well at speeds of 30 to 45 km/h -- I don't understand why you'd even test the Cyo RT, which is really designed for slower speeds in the city. Why not test a Cyo T?

Also, I tried to follow what you say about the different reflectors on the "B&M IQ reflector change" page, but you just describe things in terms of "the one used up to ca Dec. 2008" and "the one from ca. Dec. 2008 to now". What exact models are those?

FWIW, I have a Cyo Senso Plus bought in June 2009 at the same time as a friend bought an Edeluxe. The beam patterns and light color are nearly identical though not perfectly identical. I don't know anything about how the more recent models compare. Except it wouldn't be relevant to compare any of the "R" versions of the Cyo to the Edeluxe.

As to watts at a given speed, what is reported in BQ is basically just the default values generated by analyticcycling.com And if the watts are _understated_ then the efficiency loss from a dynamo hub is _overstated_. So what is in the BQ table turns out to be a worst case scenario.

Nick Bull

I've used a SON28 and Shimano higher quality dynohub. I didn't notice any vibrations with either unit with light on or off.

I can tell when my Cyo Senso is switched on by the rumble through the handlebars and I am using a Schmidt dynohub. YMMV

I can tell when my Cyo Senso is switched on by the rumble through the handlebars and I am using a Schmidt dynohub. YMMV

Are you using the 20 or the 28?

Schmidt 28

Schmidt 28

Regarding vibrations, I wonder if tire size makes a difference. I have an SON28 and a Shimano DH-3D71. Many's the time I've ridden most of the way to work (in the daylight) before noticing that the light's on. The amount of vibration and rolling resistance with either is almost not noticeable--I think usually what clues me in is either I notice a reflection or I look down at the odometer and notice the light out of the corner of my eye. I'm typically riding either Panaracer Pasela 700x32 at 70psi or Grand Bois 700x30 at 75psi. Smaller, higher pressure tires might absorb less of the vibration and pass it up through the fork.

Nick

The sp-dynamo looks interesting; worth watching to see what becomes available in the states.

I'm not too sure about the vibration issue with the Schmidt. I don't notice any vibration with mine unless I'm going real slow, like well under 5mph and never with the light off. I've owned mine for over 10 years so maybe they changed something in 08? To be honest, how many Schmidt hubs are there in the world? To have 3-4 people (including yourself) complaining about the vibration after 12+years of manufacturing hardly makes it a valid criticism. How can it be "far less of an issue with other hubs," 1 or 2 people complaining? Subjective certainly fits the bill at least in this particular instance.

btw, I run 23mm tires on my rando bike.

I can tell when my Cyo Senso is switched on by the rumble through the handlebars and I am using a Schmidt dynohub. YMMV

Its not wired up backwards is it?

My shimano 3N72 would vibrate in a very very narrow speed range when using a home made light ( around 40-42kph) but I also had a little vibration everywhere when I wired up a rectifier wrong.
I get no vibration at all using the cyo.

I get vibration with my Shimano, but it probably has something to do with the voltage doubler

Its not wired up backwards is it?


Nope

I'll be setting up a Son Deluxe and Edelux on a new bike and will pay attention to see if I can notice any vibration. I may get my GF to randomly turn the light on and off while I ride it in the day time and see if I can tell a difference.

Your article is very interesting, thanks for taking the time and work to post it. But generally, I'd comment that when responding to people's posts above, over-reacting to the mildest criticism of your article is not balanced and therefore does not inspire confidence in your testing methodology.

Nick Bull

+1 - and regardless of your results unless you have tested many units of the same product on different bikes you can't say anything 100% definitive about subjective experiences given all the possible setups that people may be riding. It's possible some folks don't have vibration issues with their dynohubs....maybe because they don't feel it due to their perception sensitivity, maybe because their dynohub doesn't vibrate or maybe something in their setup [wheel, tire, fork, bars, tape, gloves ,etc...] dampens it effectively.