Chains and Boltcutters [Archive]

jeff williams

10-16-04, 12:02 PM

It would come to leverage, long armed cutters AND you would have to get the chain to the ground and but one arm of the bolt cutters on the ground.

If you can't get the chain down, arm (bike) down, I doubt you could push both arms inward with enough force.

A short chain would be better, (no way to get it to the ground) also the metal should be hardened and plated (nickle or something.)

I cut an old mtb tube and slipped it over my chain. The lock bolt should be the same thickness, any key replacement ID #, write down and file off.

IMO, all that jazz.

alyent

10-16-04, 12:08 PM

I assume you will also need a very long boltcutters? How long? 1m?

jeff williams

10-16-04, 12:54 PM

Going to steal a bike?
Not sure, when we cut my chain @ the shop, I think the arms were 4 feet long or more, and we had to put one arm on the cement.

I guess if I weighed above 200 lbs it would have been easier. A hardened 9mm diam link is a bit of steel, but not too hard to hacksaw if someone can clamp it.

I use chain 'caus my bikes rarely outside. Sleeps in my bedroom, goes into work with me.

Pat

10-17-04, 03:21 AM

Any chain that you can carry on a bike can be dealt with by bolt cutters or a hacksaw.

Security devices have a number of purposes:

1) They effectively repel impulse thieves. That is thieves who just want to grab your bike and run. If your bike is chained and locked, they have to be able to deal with the chain and lock.

2) They slow down even prepared thieves.

3) They might deflect thieves. If there are a dozen bikes of equal value in the same location and one is locked and the others are not, there is a good chance that thieves will take the other bikes rather then fool with the secured one.

That being said, any bike left outside unattended for long periods of time is vulnerable to theft. Of course, a really cheap bike with a big old lock on it should be reasonably secure. It is unlikely that anyone would go to the trouble to steal a cheap bike.

alyent

10-17-04, 12:15 PM

Going to steal a bike?
Not really, protecting my own. Also I want to write an article about bike theft. I've got 9mm chain. In the store they had a really advanced mechanism for cutting chains, and seeing that even with that device it was not easy gives me hope.

jeff williams

10-17-04, 02:16 PM

I've been running chain since I lost the last key for the cable wound one.

I had a bit of a smirk on when the Bic news hit. Do the innertube over the chain, makes you very urbane and cool. Mtb tire tube.

Scooby Snax

10-17-04, 04:02 PM

Does anyone know if it is possible to cut 3/8" (9mm) chain with boltcutters?

In one word, Yes

I've cut a "Boron" shackle on a master pad lock with only 30" Bolt cutters. (some little twerp locked it on a Traffic Controller I had to service)

All locks can be defeated, they just require time or making noise, both of which theives dont wish to do.

Keep it locked up in a conspicuous location, once night falls, get it indoors. If they cant steal it they may take it out on your wheels.

iovnow

10-17-04, 09:50 PM

In the store they had a really advanced mechanism for cutting chains, and seeing that even with that device it was not easy gives me hope.

Cordless dremel with cutting disks?

PaulH

10-18-04, 08:23 AM

andygates

10-28-04, 09:37 AM

I have a set of 1m boltcroppers in my shed, cost me £15, and they'd go through a 9mm shackle like butter in, oh, twenty seconds max. Then again, you try sneaking around with 1m-long boltcroppers!

froze

10-29-04, 01:02 AM

There is not fool proof way to secure anything. But to deter the crooks and try to frustrate them enough that they will want to leave, its best to use two different locking systems-one chain or U lock and one cable or that new cable with plated steel sheathing.

HereNT

10-29-04, 01:23 AM

I have a set of 1m boltcroppers in my shed, cost me £15, and they'd go through a 9mm shackle like butter in, oh, twenty seconds max. Then again, you try sneaking around with 1m-long boltcroppers!

They'd just about fit in my Kremlin...

andygates

10-29-04, 05:55 AM

Now that's what I call a bag! You could lose a whole relationship inside that thing... http://www.chromebags.com/kremlin.php

cycleopath

01-04-05, 02:45 PM

is the ABUS granit plus a good lock for my bike?

powers2b

01-04-05, 02:48 PM

The quality and metal hardness of the chain are the key to cut resistance.

catatonic

01-04-05, 04:29 PM

my heavy chain is like the super magnum, except the chain is square link...the lock is dead identical though....but my lock was only $30 sold under the avenir brand.

Pretty solid combo overall, that thing's gotten attacked to hell and back, and aside from having to file some edges on the lock so I wouldn't ruin my paint, the thing's held up great.

froze

01-04-05, 10:29 PM

is the ABUS granit plus a good lock for my bike? In one word; "YES"!

Raiyn

01-04-05, 11:06 PM

I recently had a combination cable lock jam on me and had to remove it with bolt cutters. It was a fairly laborious effort, taking about a half hour. Obviously, the lock would have not stopped a determined thief, just as it did not stop me, but I feel it would dertainly have deterred almost all of them.

Paul
Should have cut it closer to the lock there's usually a small sleeve thingy at the transition between lock and cable that makes the cable easy to cut. Takes me all of a minute to zap one of those with a 3' bolt cutter.

Jeffery

01-05-05, 07:52 AM

I say don't buy any lock, cable, u-lock or anything because that is the best way to make sure your bike is safe 24/7.

You can go in stores for as long as you want, go anywhere you want to go, and never have to worry about your bike being stolen. Locks, cables, u-lock or any kind of lock won't stop a thief. I know it will stop some but not all. If a thief wanted to they could steal just a brakecable, bag, etc off your bike. You really can't lock those. You could take the brake cable and bag with you but taking the brake cable with you could be a pain. I wouldn't take the brake cable with me but there are other ways to keep everything all safe 24/7 no matter what thief walks by. It can be the best thief ever but they will not get my bike. They can try to touch it but they won't beable to get it. I know nothing is impossible but this is the only 99% sure way that your bike and even bike trailer won't get stolen.

Thats why I am making sure whenever I go my bike and bike trailer is always safe because I know someone is going to steal it even if I had the best lock ever on the bike and to me I figured that a bike and a lock is not worth it at all. Not even the best one.

Insurance isn't either. They may protect you if your bike gets stolen or your bike trailer (not sure on this one) but I don't think they will protect you if a brake cable, the stuff in the trailer, anything on your bike gets stolen. So insurance isn't worth it either.

Both of them have major disadvantages that are not worth risking.

Juha

01-05-05, 08:15 AM

Jeffery, you lost me there. I understand you're saying no lock is safe. I agree to a point, although my locking strategy is "my locks are better than those in 90% of the neighbouring bikes". But what is it that you're suggesting instead of locks?

And to cycleopath: the Abus Granit X-Plus 54 is probably about the best U-lock in the market right now. Whether it is "a good lock for your bike" depends on how much you want to spend, how much weigh you want to haul, how expensive your bike is, where you live etc. For me it would be an overkill, but your mileage may vary.

--J

Jeffery

01-05-05, 08:38 AM

I am saying that if you can figured out a way to keep a bike safe without any kind of chain, lock, etc while going inside stores for as long as you want then your bike and even your bike trailer will be 99% safe forever.

You have to fire thiefs back with fire. Not real fire or violent I am not saying because it doesn't involve that.

andygates

01-05-05, 11:30 AM

What on Earth are you talking about?

Yoshi

01-05-05, 05:33 PM

see dat big ass mutha at the bottom? get it.

http://www.lockitt.com/chain2.htm

i, on the other hand do not have that kinda money. so once i get my loan i will buy the first thing you see on the page below. it is bigger but not as tough as the abus. but it along with my kryptonite fogedaboudit should deter most thieves. and also, carrying 22lbs of locks isn't as difficult as these people make it seem.

http://www.motogear911.com/HTML/SportAccessoriesSecurityChainOnGuardPg.htm

Just so everyone knows, ABUS claims their disk locks are unpickable, but I have a video of one being picked. Keep in mind the picker had an expensive tool made exclusively for picking disk locks. Most theives wouldn't even have the cheapest of lockpicks anyway.

Yoshi

01-05-05, 06:43 PM

supply us with the video. you're talking granite series and not diskus...right?

how many disks?

The video is simply huge (it's the entire lockpicking lecture from H2K2), but the part on the ABUS lock starts at 41:40. The video can be found here: http://connectmedia.waag.org/toool/ (h2k2-lockpicking-vcd.mpg). Barry picks a granite lock I believe, and says there are usually about 8 disks.

EDIT: I checked and it is a granite series lock.

Jeffery

01-05-05, 10:15 PM

Just like I said all locks, u locks, etc are useless in my opinion.

Only one way to keep a bike safe and I will not learn this the hard way by getting my bike stolen.

Yoshi

01-05-05, 11:14 PM

Just like I said all locks, u locks, etc are useless in my opinion.

Only one way to keep a bike safe and I will not learn this the hard way by getting my bike stolen.

You still haven't said how you keep your bike safe without locks. As far as I can guess, you are suggesting either a) leave your bike at home if aren't 100% sure that will be with it at all times b) booby trap it so that anyone who tries to steal it is maimed/killed or c) pray to your god(s) and leave your bike unlocked and unattended.

Jeffery

01-05-05, 11:35 PM

You still haven't said how you keep your bike safe without locks. As far as I can guess, you are suggesting either a) leave your bike at home if aren't 100% sure that will be with it at all times b) booby trap it so that anyone who tries to steal it is maimed/killed or c) pray to your god(s) and leave your bike unlocked and unattended.

Nope. The key is so simple that I can't even believe I didn't know it. Take your bike with you.

Raiyn

01-05-05, 11:45 PM

Just like I said all locks, u locks, etc are useless in my opinion.

Only one way to keep a bike safe and I will not learn this the hard way by getting my bike stolen.
You have a hard time not obsessing about tires and ridning in traffic and I'm supposed to believe that you can keep a bike safe with out a lock? I keep my bikes locked with the heaviest chains / locks (bic proof) that Kryptonite has to offer in my bolted, locked, alarmed and attached garage. I think you're full of http://www.teamster.org/divisions/bmc/JurisEquip/Septic-Truck.jpg personally

Jeffery

01-05-05, 11:58 PM

You have a hard time not obsessing about tires and ridning in traffic and I'm supposed to believe that you can keep a bike safe with out a lock? I keep my bikes locked with the heaviest chains / locks (bic proof) that Kryptonite has to offer in my bolted, locked, alarmed and attached garage. I think you're full of http://www.teamster.org/divisions/bmc/JurisEquip/Septic-Truck.jpg personally

Raiyn that is exactly what you suppose to think! Thanks. The more that think that the better because it will then offset them from the real picture. Thats why you have to make sure.

Raiyn

01-06-05, 12:01 AM

Raiyn that is exactly what you suppose to think! Thanks. The more that think that the better because it will then offset them from the real picture. Thats why you have to make sure.
Have you been drinking?
http://img122.exs.cx/img122/1039/ihavenoidea.jpg

Jeffery

01-06-05, 12:04 AM

No I am just pointing out that sometimes the simplest solution is best. Like with keeping a bike safe. I still can't believe I didn't see it till now.

Raiyn

01-06-05, 12:06 AM

No I am just pointing out that sometimes the simplest solution is best. Like with keeping a bike safe. I still can't believe I didn't see it till now.
Take your meds. There is nothing "simple" in anything you've said in this thread.

powers2b

01-06-05, 07:37 AM

Take your meds. There is nothing "simple" in anything you've said in this thread.
or in several other threads.

"You're acting very strangely. I think you need to sit down calmly, take a stress pill and think things over." (2001 Space Oddessey)

powers2b

01-06-05, 07:45 AM

Raiyn, I love the picture...
Makes me hungry for hasenfeffer.

Yoshi

01-06-05, 10:04 AM

Nope. The key is so simple that I can't even believe I didn't know it. Take your bike with you.

Ah yes, make that choice d). I do that as much as I can, but there are many situations in which that is not practical (which is why I didn't list it). While I can bring my bike into my friends house, and even convince security to let me take my bike inside my school, I doubt I could pull off taking my bike inside a restaurant, or a book store, etc.

pnj

01-06-05, 11:03 AM

Yoshi

01-06-05, 12:28 PM

lock picking kits are available from E-bay.

nothing is immune from being cut/picked/hacked or cut. if someone wants something bad enough, their is a way to take it.

it's never been easier to break/cut a lock/chain. all you can do is lock your bike with a high end lock/chain in a good, well lit area and hope no one steals it.

as mentioned, if someone wants it, it's easy to take.

if you ride a high end bike and have to leave it outside, make it look like a low end bike....

I wonder how many bikes have been stolen from having their lock picked. My guess is the answer is << 1%. And lock picking kits that you get off ebay are not going to open the ABUS Granite series locks anyway.

More important (as you point out) than having a near pick-proof lock is having a near cut-proof lock.

thechrisproject

01-06-05, 12:54 PM

Just like I said all locks, u locks, etc are useless in my opinion.

Only one way to keep a bike safe and I will not learn this the hard way by getting my bike stolen.
What is the one way to keep a bike safe?

SamHouston

01-06-05, 01:14 PM

My combo works darn well for a $55 investment. Shortened krypto chain with American case hardened/boron steel padlock. It does the rearwheel as well cept I wasnt locking it so much as propping it up in this pic so I could begin removing the ice.

Cheap (comparably cheap, for something more effective than a ulock) and effective, only about 7-8 pounds.
http://www.under-the-weather.ca/WinterFur/pic5.jpg

cycleopath

01-25-05, 12:49 PM

my granit plus is only 51 not x-58 but it does say maximum level 10 security on it so i hope its should be ok, my bike is a saracen hazzard so i think only people who try to steal a bike because it looks good arent really pro theifs who know a true good bike, so they will give up trying to break the lock, my freind recons a disk cutter would cut throgh my lock in noi time but then who carrieds a disk cutter around with them!

john999

01-28-05, 01:20 AM

They don't bother with the chain - they use the boltcutters on the padlock. Only one cut and you're done !

In my opinion the best type of lock would be a thick cable lock with a large combination lock too big to fit most boltcutters. Sure you could still cut through the cable, or break the lock by twisting it between two big pairs of pliers - but how long would that take ? Most thieves are kids going out with Dad's boltcutters, or people on their way home from the pub.

andygates

01-28-05, 03:35 AM

A professional thief will get through any lock. Hell, I've had my house and garage broken into and bikes stolen to order. And I've had bikes locked up on the street with top-end locks stolent too. Locking bikes up on the street is about stopping the opportunist thief, not the pro, and that means something that makes casual assualt a time-consuming and visible pain in the arse.

bluejack

01-28-05, 11:02 AM

Obviously, it also depends on where you live. In 6 years in Seattle I have never had a locked bike stolen, and I lock my mid-range commuter bike in all sorts of places: on the street, when I'm at a bar or a movie or a band; in a trafficked pedestrian area when I'm at work. I used to use a heavy duty lock U-lock/Cable combo, but concluded it's just not necessary here. Now I use a thin cable that a serious thief would cut through in ten seconds or less. And I don't worry. (If I had a really expensive bike, I would worry more.)

In the 8 years I lived in Philadelphia I had 10 bicycles stolen, all locked, 3 with the heavy duty combo. At least 6 of these were dirt-cheap <$100 bikes. Some were just crap bikes, and some were decent but beat ugly. A couple I painted to be even uglier (and distinctive). The last bike I owned got stolen the same day I bought it, with the 2-lock combo. I gave up owning a bicycle in Philadelphia.

powers2b

01-28-05, 01:59 PM

your one of those people that calls love line or tom leykas aren't you? how exactly do you keep your bike from being stolen?

Isn't it obvious?

WorldWind

01-28-05, 02:08 PM

There are many grades of chain, some are very hard. There are many types and sizes of bolt cutters some compound types are extremely powerful. And there are small battery powered carbide disk cutters that will cut through almost anything.

This type of lock attached to the big chainring trapping the chain will dissuade most thieves, and are immune to all but the biggest bolt cutters.
http://www.cwylde.co.uk/bikes-motorcycles-shop/motorbike-stores-locks-solido-100d.jpg