Road Cycling - 11 speed cassettes.

Anybody know how they are going to pull this off. I wonder if they next generation of road bikes will be based on 135mm rear triangles.

It would be nice to just shift across the cassette more and relagate the small chainring to "granny" status.

EDIT: 135mm rear traingle would be more like 12 speed.

Have you seen any info or articles about 11 speeds? Please share...

55/Rad

Dunno... I think we're stuck at 10 for a long time now. 10 was kind of a magic number for marketing. Maybe I'm sounding like an old man but I don't see the need for more than 10 cogs.

11-speed cassette? so you can have 11-22 without skipping a tooth? or so you can have 9-23 and only skip 4?

they wouldn't necessarily have to make the stays wider, they could just make the hubs even narrower. how does negatively dished spokes sound?

or! you could just get one of those fancy 3x7 hubs (i forget who makes 'em, but there were a ton at interbike this year), run it with a triple and have 63 speeds. run an 11-21 7 speed cassette with a 56-48-34 triple up front and never worry about not having enough range again!

11-speed cassette? so you can have 11-22 without skipping a tooth? or so you can have 9-23 and only skip 4?

they wouldn't necessarily have to make the stays wider, they could just make the hubs even narrower. how does negatively dished spokes sound?

or! you could just get one of those fancy 3x7 hubs (i forget who makes 'em, but there were a ton at interbike this year), run it with a triple and have 63 speeds. run an 11-21 7 speed cassette with a 56-48-34 triple up front and never worry about not having enough range again!

Ah Yes......You remember my Attack triple concept.

Too bad they don't make 180mm triple cranks....then I could have a custom 11-19 cassette.

Have you seen any info or articles about 11 speeds? Please share...

55/Rad

I'm still looking for it. Just wondering how much thinner chains can be made before they have to re-spec frames.

IIRC when 8-sp came into play, frames were spec-ed to be wider in the rear than before....this is part of why i cant fit that blasted 3x7 on my trek :(

IIRC when 8-sp came into play, frames were spec-ed to be wider in the rear than before....this is part of why i cant fit that blasted 3x7 on my trek :(

wow...it just took me way too long to figure out what you were saying (i confuse easily). yeah, they had to make the rear end wider when 8-speed setups became more popular. if you've got a steel frame, it's easy enough to squish the stays together 4mm.

then again, i'm not sure what the spacing is for that 3x7 hub, i assume you've already looked into it though. out of curiosity, what were you going to use it for? touring, perhaps?

I have no idea what this 3x7 hub is? I assume it's a 7 speed hub with some sort of underdrive and overdrive mechainism in it.

it's a hub, made by SACHS/SRAM that's basically a 3-speed internal hub with a 7-speed cassette. raleigh and jamis are two companies that i know of who are using this hub on their comfort/city-oriented bikes. it's a pretty trick setup, i think.

at some point in the future, i plan on building up a touring bike, and i think this dealie would be a pretty nice setup with a compact double, or even a triple. it's probably heavy for a rear hub, but that's not really a concern with touring. whenever i get around to getting the parts together, i'll do some research and see how they are maintenance-wise.

aaah, i can see it now...DeSalvo touring frame, with the 3x7, some kinda dyno hub in the front, moustace bars, bar-end shifters for the derailleurs (if i go with a multi chainring setup), and the grip shifter for the internal gears, salsa CX rims, michelin touring tires, brooks saddle, paul's mafac thro-back brakes. mmmmmm.....i...gotta go to the bathroom now.

wow...it just took me way too long to figure out what you were saying (i confuse easily). yeah, they had to make the rear end wider when 8-speed setups became more popular. if you've got a steel frame, it's easy enough to squish the stays together 4mm.

then again, i'm not sure what the spacing is for that 3x7 hub, i assume you've already looked into it though. out of curiosity, what were you going to use it for? touring, perhaps?


I was going to use it to convert my trek 1100 to a commuter rig. Part of that is i need a full chainguard, so I was going to move to a single chainring, yet I dont want to sacrifice the flexibility having 21 speeds offers. BTW the 1100 had a 6061 alcoa aluminum frame...so no spacing for me :(

Given the bike would possibly be butt-ugly with a chainguard, but hey..it's a daily beater, not a supermodel of bikes :)

Yeah it's a 3-sp internal with a 7-sp cassette. The proble is its 135mm, which is about 9mm wider than my frame....this leaves me to doing something a bit more extreme...but I gotta figure out what the heck i'm doing before I go that route...modding freewheels and such is a slightly advanced thing...at least for someone who hasnt messed with freewheels it is.

Anybody know how they are going to pull this off. I wonder if they next generation of road bikes will be based on 135mm rear triangles.

It would be nice to just shift across the cassette more and relagate the small chainring to "granny" status.

EDIT: 135mm rear traingle would be more like 12 speed.


Isn't this a bit of an exercise of deminishing returns?

I have experienced each upgrade in rear cogs from the old 5 gear rear cluster to the current 10 gear rear cluster. The thing is that each gear added makes progressively less impact on the shifting. Going from 5 to 6 was welcome as was 6 to 7 and even 7 to 8 however 8 to 9 is a bit marginal. The chain is not as robust, in my opinion, and they really do not offer that many different 9 speed gear combinations. This means that your added gear going from an 8 to a 9 might be one you would not use often enough to be worth the fuss. From what I have read on 10 gear systems, the cost of the chain seems to me to cancel any benefit one may received for having one more gear.

Isn't this a bit of an exercise of deminishing returns?

I have experienced each upgrade in rear cogs from the old 5 gear rear cluster to the current 10 gear rear cluster. The thing is that each gear added makes progressively less impact on the shifting. Going from 5 to 6 was welcome as was 6 to 7 and even 7 to 8 however 8 to 9 is a bit marginal. The chain is not as robust, in my opinion, and they really do not offer that many different 9 speed gear combinations. This means that your added gear going from an 8 to a 9 might be one you would not use often enough to be worth the fuss. From what I have read on 10 gear systems, the cost of the chain seems to me to cancel any benefit one may received for having one more gear.

:lol: Yeah......It doesn't mean they still won't try to do it!

The Mtn bike guys hate the 9 speed systems. For them 8 speed was perfect....Strong chain, enough gears.

P.S. 9 speed is a good cost/performance comprimise right now.

What dissappoints me about the current shimano 10 speed cassettes is that the range is the same as the current 9 speed. Unlike Other people here I wouldn't mind a wider range of gears in my cassette.

I'm thinking of trying Sheldon Browns 11-28 9 speed cassette.......Not because I need a 39-28, More because I like to climb out of the saddle in the big chain ring and I wouldn't mind some deeper usuable gears that didn't make the chain deflect so much (unforntunately I'll probably need long cage derailleur to use some of those gear combos)

maybe internal hubs will come back....woo! 90 speeds on a 3-sp hub!


or some sick *%&$ could take a 14-sp rohloff, ultra wide rear triangle and 10-sp and get what...420 speeds! ....talk about freaking overkill....

LOL. You're crazy. I don't really feel I need more than 9, especially with a triple. I think I could go with a double (I'd go with FSA or StrongLight) if I got a 12-25, but I really like the 11 so I dunno..

LOL. You're crazy. I don't really feel I need more than 9, especially with a triple. I think I could go with a double (I'd go with FSA or StrongLight) if I got a 12-25, but I really like the 11 so I dunno..

:lol: The Bike Industry thrives on selling us stuff we don't need. I'm just wondering when they are going to come out with 11 speed cassette.

I'm telling you it's only a matter of time before we see 33 speed bikes. No way are they going to stop at 10 speed.

Hell, the mtn bikers hate 9 speed, but it didn't stop Shimano from developing it and trying to make us buy it.

P.S. Personally, I think 10 speeds is plenty...mainly for people with doubles. If you have a triple probably 8 speeds is ideal--->8 speed chains and cassettes are cheap and last forever...unlike 10 speed stuff.

Is no one ever going to say "continuously variable transmission" on here?

did

nah, we were talking somewhat feasible crap...not some honda bike requiring 1.88 jiggawatts of power to energize the flux capcitor and send us back to the future :p


I doubt the honda tranny will find its way to roadies for a while...heck if its on a DH bike...it means its prolly a bit heavy for most of us.

Jigglewatts? I've got those in spades. Stupid weather.

There's got to be a way to do a CV transmission on a bike - probably lose a little efficiency compared to the chain drive, but gain the ability to always have the right ratio.

I'm gettin' to work.

did

Honda already did the CV trnasmission on their DH team bikes. It uses cams to move the drive chain. It's a pretty complex setup, and relies on very bizarre sprocket designs and such, but it does work.

It will prolly find its way into the commercial MTB arena in the next few years or so....problem is a CLV tranny is complex, therefore heavy...and what roadie wants a heavy object like that on their bike? heck the honda one has a mostly CF housing, and it's still pretty hefty from my understanding....lots of metal, lots of parts.