Road Cycling - Eating on the ride

Since the issue has been raised, and I am getting up to distances where it matters, I pose this question. At what distance/time should one begin to be concerned about eating during a ride? Basically, I guess there are three questions:
1. What total anticipated ride length do you need to even worry about it? Distance or time? 30 miles, 40, 50? Over 2 hours? Over 3 hours? I assume it's not really a concern up to at least about 30 miles/2 hours. I've never eaten during a ride before until the 50 miler, except for a 16 ounce fruit juice about midway. I'm wondering if eating is what made me feel so good toward the end of the ride.
2. When to start in order to benefit before the ride is over? After half hour? Hour?
3. How often thereafter? Half hour? Hour?
Thanks,
Raymond

Yes eating does help You recover better, and feel stronger.
Unlike drinking, I eat when I get hungry, on long trips I plan a rest stop about mid-way just to eat and see how my body/bike is doing. Guess what i'm saying is listen to your body, it will tell you when to eat.

On rides over 3 hours I usually start eating after 2 hours, and nibble something every hour.
On weekend day rides Ill make a meal stop and have a pub lunch. I have a few favouyrite pubs and have found some with gourmet chefs.

You should eat something on any ride over 2 hours, or over about 35 miles. Eating at about 1 and a 1/2 hours is a good idea if the total duration will be that long. After that, I'd say to base it on how you're feeling and riding.

Thanks! Those are the kind of guidelines I had in mind. Other comments still welcome.
Regards,
Raymond

It's better to eat a little bit several times during your ride than all at once. If I go for 30 miles, I will at least bring a tiger bar or something. Over 30 and you def need a bit more. Of course you can do without but that just tears your body down little by little.
definetly a carbo mix in one bottle and water in the other.
Like drinking, if you feel hungry it is too late. Eat and drink periodically and you will be better off.
If you are going for an "easy" ride or training ride, eating a good meal before is a good idea and starts you off topped up.

On a longer ride every 20 to 30 miles works well, the Pros tend to use the 30 mile mark for feed zones and tend to eat a bit at a time as they ride, not all at once. Drink lots of water when eating while riding, as the food in the stomach tends to pull blood away from your muscles for digestion if you're not very well hydrated.

Eat an hour befoer the ride so you don't start "heavy" and the "goodies" are in your system.

Energy and electrolyte replacement drinks and lozenges are a good idea as well.

I've tried Enervit drinks and losenges, "Hammer Gel" and Pro-Max Bars with very good results.

Traditionally, small meat, cream-cheese and jelly sandwiches are favored fare for "muzette" bags, four different types of energy there and rates of absorbtion and digestion.

Ride Fed not Famined
Pat

Originally posted by RacerX
Like drinking, if you feel hungry it is too late.

this is news to me. what happens if you wait until you are hungry?.

When you feel that you are hungry it is too late. You don´t have any power and you feel that kind of weak.
I can tell you, I had such a downbreak like Ullrich had in Les-Deux-Alpes in 98... you are pedalling like mad but you allmost don´t move. This is hard, your knees feel like butter in the sun and every meter upwards hurts like hell...
not funny at all.

Originally posted by ahuman


this is news to me. what happens if you wait until you are hungry?.

Once you feel hungry, you are already behind. It takes a certain amount of time for your digestive system to process new food or liquid to make it available for use by your muscles. Since your system can only process at a gradual rate eating a bunch at once does no good and can cause distress. If you wait until you are hungry, you have already gotten behind. Factor in the digestive lead time and relatively slow rate of processing/absorption, and you can never catch up, only fall further behind.

Now we are not talking about, "Yum, I could go for some ice cream!" after riding 10 miles. We are saying that if you plan to do 80 miles and haven't started eating small amounts by, say, mile 50 when you start to feel hungry, you may finish, but you will suffer. Where if you start the ride well-nourished and start nibbling ever few miles after, say, 20 miles, you will finish much more comfortably, assuming, obviously, that your conditioning has actually prepared you for 80 miles. If not, you will suffer no matter what.

It's not so critical if you are only doing 30-40 because, though you may fall behind, you finish before the debt gets excessive enough to affect you too much. I have done 46-47 with one a bottle of juice around midway and finished comfortably. However, I felt much better finishing 50+ when I did eat, even after 42 the day before. That was the first time I have done back to back longish (for me) days.

You more experienced riders, have I expressed the concept fairly accurately.

It's simple, your body needs energy. If you do not eat, your body still needs energy.
On a ride, your body cannot readily access fat. You will bonk before your body can suck the energy out of fat. What's left?
Muscle. Yes your body will eat muscle (protien) to keep going. A very common problem with endurance atheletes that don't take care of things.
Besides being more comfortable and healthy, eating/drinking regularly will help your body grow stronger from the rides instead of taking 2 steps forward and one back.

Eating on a ride huh?

Well, what to eat and how much varies with the person.

Some biology here. The body stores about 2500 calories of carbohydrates. At 50 cal per mile, that is enough for 50 miles of riding (assuming you are riding hard and burning carbohydrate).

The body can burn carbohydrate or fat (or convert protein to carbo and burn it). In exercise, getting oxygen to the muscle is the limiting part. It takes twice as much oxygen to get the same energy out of fat as carbohydrate. So when you are burning only fat, you are at half power - not good. I think that is the bonk.

On short rides (less than 30 miles), most people do not need to eat at all. On longer rides, it is good to eat something before the ride and eat some during the ride.

Now what people can eat varies. I have some friends who say they can not handle anything but GU while riding because of nausea. Me, I can eat bananas, oranges, cookies, PB&J, GORP, candy bars, and so on. Bananas are great - cheap and nutritious but some people swear by those energy bars (to each their own). This is pretty much a matter of preference and what you can stand.

I have heard that at high levels of exertion the body burns only carbohydrate and at lower levels of exertion the body burns a combination of fat and carbo. That makes sense, but I don't think it has ever been critically tested - it could be done but I don't think anyone has done it.

Originally posted by Pat
I have heard that at high levels of exertion the body burns only carbohydrate and at lower levels of exertion the body burns a combination of fat and carbo. That makes sense, but I don't think it has ever been critically tested - it could be done but I don't think anyone has done it.

Harumph. Like everything else in health and nutrition, the story seems to change every couple of years. I tend to agree with those that claim at higher levels of exertion, your body burns proportionately more carbohydrate, essentially because it can only convert fat to energy at a fixed rate.

Raymond, as usual, it sounds like you're on top of things already, and just kind of want to check out other people's experience. ;)
Here's what works for me, and it pretty much agrees with what's been said already. YMMV, somewhat. It's more about time than distance. Rides longer than 2 hours, I start eating at 1 hr. Not a lot. Something like a NutriGrain bar or a banana seems to be sufficient for an hour, for me. More is fine, and it's probably better to err on the high side, provided you don't overdo it. Sometimes I divide my hourly "dosage" in half, eating every 1/2 hour. But it doesn't work very well to trying to store half of crumbly things like NutriGrain bars or squishy things like bananas. I also like to carry along a pouch of GU/PowerGel type stuff that doesn't have any fat, and is designed to get into your system fast, in case I feel a hard bonk coming on. On long rides, I eat and drink by the numbers. Set an alarm to beep every 15 minutes, and take a swallow of water. Force myself to eat on the hour. It's especially important riding on hot and humid days. You're not real hungry or thirsty, so you skip a drink, then you start getting a little tired and your judgement gets a little foggy... it can lead to a really unpleasant experience. Just eat and drink by the numbers.
Congrats on the increased mileage, and here's to daylight savings! :beer: (Mugs of Gatorade)

Roadbuzz,
Thanks! That is great info. I really appreciate everyone sharing their personal experience to help the rest of us learn.
Regards,
Raymond

Hey. I'm new to the board.

I try to eat or drink every fifteen minutes (no kiddin'.) It wasn't easy and has taken some practice to a) remember and b) do so somewhat elegantly (read: without crashing). By eat and drink I don't mean stopping and chowing, just a bite here and a sip there. One thing I found handy is to unwrap my food bars before hand, and keep them in my right jersey pocket (i'm right handed.) Ride..ride... ride...*bite/replace bar/swig*....ride....ride...ride... repeat as necessary. I try to get in about 300 cal. / hour including sports drink. On stops at organized rides, I usually just grab more stuff to stick in my jersey pocks rather than eat there; it saves time and keeps my legs from getting stiff.

Oy yeah, I usually top off with a little something easy to eat right before I start, like a banana.

Now, what you eat when you're *done* riding is a whole nother story... short answer is yes, do, and it should contain some protein.

Originally posted by PseuZQ
I try to get in about 300 cal. / hour including sports drink

PseuZ brings up a good point. While riding, how much of your caloric expenditure can be replaced and be applied by your body on the remainder of the ride? I expect it's not 100%, because of the stored glycogen issue. The answer may also be dependent on the pace/level of exertion.

Now that I know eating while riding is ok..
I carry bananas sliced apples and fig newtons...
I was wondering if those power bars work and which ones are
worth puting up with the taste.. and what stuff will get to the body faster. I try to stay away from sugar is this a good thing.


K

PseuzQ,
Sounds like a plan! Nibbling a little frequently is probably a good way to go.
Thanks,
Raymond

Anybody use GU? I've got a friend that loves the stuff, no fat, just calories and fuel. The only problem is I will have to stop making fun of him for sniffing "glue". :p

Originally posted by AlphaGeek
Anybody use GU?
I use it and PowerGel occasionally, typically only on supported centuries that I'm trying to ride fast. For most of my everyday rides, it would be kind of like putting premium in a car that's running fine on regular.

I have started to make my own bars that go into my handlebar bag on any ride longer than 40 k. Ususally, I start eating pretty soon - after 20-30 minutes or so. Drinking before I'm thirsty is not a big problem for me, partly due to the amount of riding I have done and partly due to the fact that I once (when playing tennis) got dehydrated and had a very tough time riding my bike for two kilometres to get home. Not a feeling I want to experience again.

Eating is another matter though. Before I started making my bars I didn't bring along anything for rides less than 60k, 60-100k a banana or two was all i ate. Above that, I brought along food that had to be eaten off the bike. This year I am making a conscious effort to minimize time off bike. Since I am not used to eat on the bike I have noticed a tendency to eat a little early early in the ride, and a bit too late later on. So far, I have done two solo 160k rides eating nothing but the bars and was much less hungry at the end than I have been on previous rides of that distance. Not to say that the big pizza lasted very long :).

For anyone planning to do a long or special ride, I think it is a good idea to practice eating on the bike and to eat what you are planning to eat on the "big" ride. That way, you will know if that particular energy source works for you (and your digestion system) before that ride you really wanted to do.

Of course, when touring I usually take two food breaks and a longer break for lunch on a normal day.

/Csson

fig newtons are wonders. i usually cut/rip a power bar into 1/3's and wrap and tuck it under the bottom of my shorts (near the knee, guys) -
i find that my limitations are based on my nutrition and not my training. i went for 40 miles of fairly hilly terrain, and not having many outdoor miles yet this season - have to relearn to eat and drink -

Csson,
Would you be willing to share your recipe with us? I have been thinking about trying to make some homemade bars of some kind so I would know exactly what was in them.
Thanks,
Raymond

All,

Here's something I came across re: homemade bars. Disclaimer: I have _not_ tried these but the ingredients look pretty tasty.

http://www.napastyle.com/kitchen/recipes/recipe.jsp?recipe_id=10

Well, I can try :). The recipe is in Swedish and I am not familiar with English/American names on food stuff.

1 dl treacle/syrup
1 dl cream
1 dl granulated sugar
6-7 dl porridge oats (as they are)

Mix syrup, cream and sugar in a saucepan. Boil for 8-10 minutes (the colour starts to change). Put the oats in a bowl and pour the boiled stuff over it. Mix together with spoons. Once everything is mixed, put it on a chopping-board and flatten (I use my hands, but it's quite hot). Slice. I make mine about 2 cm X 7 cm, and make cuts every 2 cm along one of the edges. This makes it easier to break off reasonably sized pieces. I let them cool of for a while before I put them in plastic bags in the fridge.

That's it!

/Csson

Originally posted by PseuZQ
All,

Here's something I came across re: homemade bars. Disclaimer: I have _not_ tried these but the ingredients look pretty tasty.

http://www.napastyle.com/kitchen/recipes/recipe.jsp?recipe_id=10

Interesting idea!
I think i'll go try em':D

Call me crazy but I have done centuries eating nothing but a few cookies( 6 choclate chip ones). I admit it was a fairly flat one just under 6,000 ft of climbing. Drinking water is more important then eating for me. Although lately I have found that Hammer Gel works wonders I can skip rest stops without trouble. Everyone is unique so you have to see for yourself. But just remember to carry some food with you to get you home.

Don't know if it applies in your case, but it's my opinion that if you do a lot of long distance riding (say, over 75 miles), you condition your body to get better at burning fat. The result is that you notice it less when the last of your glycogen is kaput, and your body has to resort to burning fat. And you can ride stronger under those circumstances. John Forester has a write up on how to condition your body for burning fat (rather draconian, IMO) in Effective Cycling.

I find that what works for me is a Balance Bar or some Hammer Gel (@ 200 cal worth) about every 20 -25miles. And LOTS of water. We're all different, though and have different needs. The trick is to listen to your body, try different things and see how your energy level holds up and how you feel at the end of the ride.

Another important point that I haven't seen mentioned is how you eat the night before a long ride and about having a good breakfast that morning. The first time I tried the Deathride I hadn't eaten a good dinner and had only a small breakfast. Even though I stopped and ate at the rest stops along the way, I bonked halfway through. This past year I made an effort to eat well the day before and felt much better during the ride. (and finished, thank you) I think that being "well stocked" before the ride makes really improves your performance.

The misconceptions are surprising to read. You realize that not eating and "doing fine" during a ride mean nothing about your health.
You are NOT conditioning your body to burn more fat (or more efficiently) by not eating. You are doing the exact opposite. You are conditioning your body to STORE fat. What would you do if you never had enough gas for your car and always ran on reserve and then came upon a gas station? Tank up right? That is what you are training your body to do by not eating.

You lower your body fat % by eating properly, not by NOT eating.

what you are loosing is muscle fiber because your body is eating it. Sure you won't bonk on a long ride (riding at a moderate pace) because your body is happily eating protien(muscle) and waiting for you to eat so it can store fat.

Like I said, muscle cannibalization is a common maladay amonst endurance atheletes that don't know better.

I agree with you but I really dont consider 100 miles a long ride. I normally would do rides of 50-70 miles on the way home from work. So doing a century is no big deal. Longer ride that I do I make sure I force myself to eat and drink. You also have to do rides that you practice eating in drinking on so your body does not rebel when you try to. There is nothing worse then an upset stomach on a long ride where you cant eat or drink wothout trouble. You can not finish a long rie without eating.

Comments by RacerX and chaz_cycles prompt me to clarify points of my earlier post somewhat.

With regard to conditioning the body to burn fat, the 75 mile mark is an approximate distance at which your body will have exhausted stored glucose and glycogen. Actual distance (and whether this is even a "long" ride) will vary based on a number of factors, of course.

At this point, the only energy available is converted fat and glucose drawn directly from the bloodstream (i.e. from calories ingested during the ride). My contention is that, subjected to this kind of riding on a fairly regular basis, the human body can and will adapt by getting better at digesting while riding and metabolizing fat. This is the type of situation it's been hoarding that fat for.

You definitely do not want to underestimate your caloric needs on any long ride. To do so invites a major bonk and associated impaired judgement that can easily make a bad situation worse (don't ask me how I know this, for a hint check Allister's signature).

Also, checking Forester's comments on conditioning the body to burn fat in Effective Cycling, they aren't really so draconian after all. He just says you need to go for 8-12 hour rides.

Totally weird attitude towards eating guys. It doesn't make you stronger or a tougher rider because you don't eat.
100 miles isn't particularly long. That isn't even the point. Also, an arbitrary point like 75 miles where your body eats fat (which it doesn't. It eats muscle before it eats fat) is bizarre. 75 miles of hills is completely different from 75 miles of flat or headwind or tailwind or speed or a million other factors.

The posts before this weird tangent on "fat eating" are sensible and effective. No offense, but this stuff on not eating and training your body to use fat is really off. What has been described is the way to keep your body terminally weak, tired and wanting to store fat.

]<snipped other stuff about fat burning>
Originally posted by RacerX
[B
You lower your body fat % by eating properly, not by NOT eating.

what you are loosing is muscle fiber because your body is eating it. Sure you won't bonk on a long ride (riding at a moderate pace) because your body is happily eating protien(muscle) and waiting for you to eat so it can store fat.

[/B]

RacerX, based on my limited understanding, I agree with you, which is why I don't try to restrict caloric intake on the bike. Having said that, *does* 300cal/hour sound about right? (yeah, I know conditions may vary -- assume varied terrain and limited noodling). I rode about 190 miles last week and put on half a pound. (No, I'm not coming home from a ride and eating a tray of lasagne.) I'm not freaking out about it -- eight oz could be water, whatever -- but could I be eating too much? I'd much rather keep caloric intake up in order to meet my training goals (go farther and higher) than bonk, not recover properly, and lose fitness.

I normally would do rides of 50-70 miles on the way home from work.

50-70miles/80-112kms on the way home from work? Sounds a bit far for me. 70 miles at a generous 20mph is 3.5hrs of riding after work, not something that could be done very often. What time do you finish work? How are you getting to work?
Maybe you are super fit, but otherwise can people be a bit more accurate with the numbers they use.

CHEERS.

Mark

I normally get off work at 1pm, I go to work at 6 am. I ride to work 15 miles. I have a roommate that works at the sameplace I do. So he takes my clothes and things needed for work with him. I live in a place where winter doesn't really exist so I ride all year round. Also before you pass judgement on how far I ride why dont you come on over and I can take you out for a nice ride my favorite short ride which is 47 miles with 5,000 plus feet of climbing.

Wow!:confused:

To chaz_cycles, don't get offended, you obviously ride a lot and have the time to do it, that's great. I was just asking the question, because as most of us know the internet is where bull**** was invented, I have seen some outrageous claims by people, so I thought I'd ask. You gave a response I was hoping to see, someone actually being able to back up their claims. Thanks.

As for the 47mile/5000ft ride, that sounds pretty standard to my riding, so I'm up for it. Too bad I have to travel 10,000miles to get there first.:(

CHEERS.

Mark

Originally posted by PseuZQ
...I don't try to restrict caloric intake on the bike. Having said that, *does* 300cal/hour sound about right
I was interested in this too, going back to a much earlier post. Here's what I came up with, from Bicycling Medicine, by Arnie Baker, M.D. [During exercise] "metabolism cannot work this fast to use ingested carbohydrate and/or fat. Working muscles can use only 200 to 250 calories per hour of ingested carbohydrate... Diabetics (as well as non-diabetics) should consume about 250 calories per hour to help fuel their muscles directly". So, according to that, 300 sounds about right.

BTW, If you have the book, you can read it in context on page 258. He's actually discussing strategies for diabetic riders to determine insulin requirements.

I went on a 2.5 hour ride this past Sunday. The entire ride I w as battling crosswinds and gust of headwinds, plus cars whizzing past. I was from Shaw AFB to a nearby town named Camden, about a 40 mile ride, 20 miles there, and 20 back. The only time I ate during the ride was when I got to Camden, which took an hour. I stopped and refilled my water bottles(It was stinking hot) and bought a small pack of Fig Newtons. But that wasn't enough! The rest of the way home I felt tired, and by the time I got on to the base I was completely beat, but I still had 15 mintues left to ride. My legs were dead, my eyes felt like they were being popped out of my head, and my neck hurt so bad I couldn't hold my head up.
Should I have eaten more on the ride?

Originally posted by fubar5
Should I have eaten more on the ride?

It sounds to me like you should have. 40 miles in those conditions is a long way to go without much food. And, the symptoms you mentioned sounded like some from the bonk...try picking up a little more to eat next time, then see you it goes.

My 2 cents worth.

I find what I eat the day before has as much impact as what I eat the day of ride. I also work out with weights and find if I don't eat properly the day before lifting ,my weight lifted drops on workout day. However I try to eat an hour before exercise and then take on bottle of carb drink and water as well as fig newtons and a banana on the ride, also stash a power bar if I get desperate enough to need it. I find my body lets me know each day if I have neglected to eat properly. As the others have said "every BODY is different"

I drink two bottles of water before I leave. I agree a good meal the night before and the morning of, makes a huge difference. I use Excelerade mix for one waterbottle and heavily iced water in the second. I use a GU bottle filled with honey for quick energy and about every 20 miles a PayDay candy bar (peanuts and caramel). After the ride I keep drinking and have found Excelerade helps in the muscle recovery after the longer rides I do on weekends.