General Cycling Discussion - Why the "swoop" ??

Can someone please explain why most ,not all, cycling helmets have the "swoop" at the back of the helmet instead of being more rounded like the majority of helmets in all other cases. :twitchy:

yes, I know that there are a few bicycle helmets that are more "normal" looking but the "swoop" helmet is still the most common cycling helmet. :(

So what purpose does the "swoop" serve????? :innocent:

If I had to venture a guess, I would guess aerodynamics. I don't like the way they look, which is why I wear a vintage Tourlite.

There could be a small aerodynamic benefit. And perhaps they think it looks cool.

Also, if you fell backwards and hit the back of your head it might provide a bit more protection than it would without the "swoop". (Though if that was the case, perhaps the front should have a swoop too?)

No, I can't explain. I imagine ventilation is one reason, though.

The swoop does add an interesting effect when worn backwards.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2634/3871673208_fa167dfa27_o.jpg

For people with pointed heads.

I'm not sure what you mean by "swoop" but round, bowl-like helmets just look ... odd. Helmets with a bit of taper and shape to them look so much better.

That, and tapered helmets are supposed to be a little bit more aerodynamic and may offer a little bit more ventilation.

This, for example, is a nice-looking helmet :) ... and I'm going to have to see if it, or something like it, is available here in Australia.

http://www.nashbar.com/images/nashbar/products/large/YH-VLT10-GR-ANGLE.jpg

It all started with aerodynamic helmets made for racing. Wanna-be racer road riders wanted them too, helmet companies saw the market and produced what would sell. That idea still pervades the market.
Check out the Bicycle Helmet Safety Institute. http://www.helmets.org/index.htm

So what purpose does the "swoop" serve????? :innocent:

It makes ya' look faster even when you're stopped.

You can get BMX-style helmets without the swoop (although the one I have is heavier and poorly ventilated).

I think that you worry too much about all of that design stuff. I think that, over time, the market resolves all such issues and I'm not even a Republican.

If people don't like "swoopy" helmets theyll stop buying them and manufacturers will produce helmets that don't "swoop so much".

If people stop buying bikes that have straight, flat handlebars the same thing will happen.

More and more folks in Portland are wearing BMX style helmets with cool designs. The only thing I see are heads that will over heat on a hot day, or if you wanted to pull a bit harder.

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More and more folks in Portland are wearing BMX style helmets with cool designs. The only thing I see are heads that will over heat on a hot day, or if you wanted to pull a bit harder.

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I think you'd have to be 5 or 85 to pull that off!! :D

I'm not sure what you mean by "swoop" but round, bowl-like helmets just look ... odd. Helmets with a bit of taper and shape to them look so much better.

That, and tapered helmets are supposed to be a little bit more aerodynamic and may offer a little bit more ventilation.

This, for example, is a nice-looking helmet :) ... and I'm going to have to see if it, or something like it, is available here in Australia.

http://www.nashbar.com/images/nashbar/products/large/YH-VLT10-GR-ANGLE.jpg

Yes, THIS is exactly what I meant. What's up with this anyway??

The triumph of marketing over function.

The triumph of marketing over function.

Absolutely! :roflmao2::roflmao2::roflmao2::roflmao2:

Yes, THIS is exactly what I meant. What's up with this anyway??

I would be at least a couple mph's faster if I wore that instead of my Bell Metro.:lol:

Exceptional ventilation, too.

The triumph of marketing over function.

Just the opposite. It increases ventilation by creating low pressure areas at the back of the helmet.

Yes, THIS is exactly what I meant. What's up with this anyway??

It's a work of art ... it's beautiful. It's also got great ventilation which is very important in this heat. And if it weren't so expensive, it would be on my head as I cycle down the street as fast as I could get it here. I'm even considering it at the price it is.

I've wondered this too. It seems less safe to have pointy bits on a helmet. It also looks ridiculous, to me.

That said, I ended buying a MET helmet with the silly spikes because it fit so well.

Just the opposite. It increases ventilation by creating low pressure areas at the back of the helmet.

Every object moving through a fluid, (air is a fluid), has a low pressure area behind it.


"The fashion among helmet designers since 1998 has favored squared-off edges of the foam remaining around the vents, and the addition of sharp lines in the exterior plastic just for style. The elongated "aero" shape dates from that era as well. This is not an optimal design for crashing. We believe that the ideal surface for striking a road resembles a bowling ball: hard, smooth and round. Round shells reduce to a minimum any tendency for a helmet to "stick" to the surface when you hit, with the possibility of increasing impact intensity, contributing to rotational brain injury or jerking the rider's neck. They also eliminate the aero tail that can snag, or in a backward impact can shove the helmet aside as you hit, exposing your bare head. This is such a problem with some models that lab technicians have to use copious amounts of duct tape to keep some helmets on the headform in their test drops, even after they have pulled the straps extra-tight."

Ref: http://www.helmets.org/ventsqua.htm

The triumph of marketing over function.

How is that different from "Selling what people want to buy rather than trying to sell them what they need"?

I think that you worry too much about all of that design stuff. I think that, over time, the market resolves all such issues and I'm not even a Republican.

If people don't like "swoopy" helmets theyll stop buying them and manufacturers will produce helmets that don't "swoop so much".

If people stop buying bikes that have straight, flat handlebars the same thing will happen.

Maybe but a GREAT DEAL of consumer education will have to take place before that happens.

Maybe but a GREAT DEAL of consumer education will have to take place before that happens.

Meanwhile, fortunately, they've got a whole set of great-looking, functional helmets on the market.

Here is what I found that tells why the "swoop" and other helmet shapes..............
http://www.cyclehelmets.org/papers/c2023.pdf

http://www.bhsi.org/history.htm

And a new helmet design that does't look like a dorky bicycle helment.......

http://www.yakkay.com/

And a new helmet design that does't look like a dorky bicycle helment.......

http://www.yakkay.com/

Have you bought one?

Have you bought one?

No, if you read the site you would have noted that at present these helmets are not sold in the U.S. & Canada yet. I do wear a Bell Citi which doesn't have any "swoop".

http://www.amazon.com/Bell-Citi-Bike-Helmet/dp/B000BOC8I2

As you might guess I WILL NOT wear a "swoop" goofy helmet. I won't look like a dork while I ride.

Bell (they are starting to market non-swoop helmets) and the rest of the main stream bicycle helmet makers had better step it up to start selling more rounded helmet designs or new companies like www.nutcasehelmets.com will eat their lunch.

Just the opposite. It increases ventilation by creating low pressure areas at the back of the helmet.

Bingo!


Every object moving through a fluid, (air is a fluid), has a low pressure area behind it.

But every low pressure system isn't created equally. If the point is to draw cool air through the helmet and spill hot air out the back, the fins aid in that air flow. The Bell Biker, Bell Metro and, especially, the Bailen (hottest helmet every) didn't have all that great an air flow. I loved my Bell Metro for winter riding but couldn't stand it when the temperatures got up to around 50. On the other hand, the more modern well vented helmets are crap for winter riding...too much air flow.


"The fashion among helmet designers since 1998 has favored squared-off edges of the foam remaining around the vents, and the addition of sharp lines in the exterior plastic just for style. The elongated "aero" shape dates from that era as well. This is not an optimal design for crashing. We believe that the ideal surface for striking a road resembles a bowling ball: hard, smooth and round. Round shells reduce to a minimum any tendency for a helmet to "stick" to the surface when you hit, with the possibility of increasing impact intensity, contributing to rotational brain injury or jerking the rider's neck. They also eliminate the aero tail that can snag, or in a backward impact can shove the helmet aside as you hit, exposing your bare head. This is such a problem with some models that lab technicians have to use copious amounts of duct tape to keep some helmets on the headform in their test drops, even after they have pulled the straps extra-tight."

Ref: http://www.helmets.org/ventsqua.htm

Different problem. If it cooks your brain and you won't wear it, is a round helmet without vents or with reduced air flow any better?

No, if you read the site you would have noted that at present these helmets are not sold in the U.S. & Canada yet. I do wear a Bell Citi which doesn't have any "swoop".

Now see, that's why they have both chocolate and vanilla.

I've considered buying a pair of Citi helmets for my wife and me. Positives are price and that it comes in yellow to match our recumbent tandem. Negatives are that I question ventillation and I think that it looks -well- dorky.

negatives are that i question ventillation and i think that it looks -well- dorky.

+1 :d

Now see, that's why they have both chocolate and vanilla.

I've considered buying a pair of Citi helmets for my wife and me. Positives are price and that it comes in yellow to match our recumbent tandem. Negatives are that I question ventillation and I think that it looks -well- dorky.

Cooling air flow for the Bell Citi is swell. In fact I prefer it to my old Swoop Bell Ukon that I rarely wore 'cause it looked super dorky.

I'm not sure what you mean by "swoop" but round, bowl-like helmets just look ... odd. Helmets with a bit of taper and shape to them look so much better.

That, and tapered helmets are supposed to be a little bit more aerodynamic and may offer a little bit more ventilation.

This, for example, is a nice-looking helmet :) ... and I'm going to have to see if it, or something like it, is available here in Australia.

http://www.nashbar.com/images/nashbar/products/large/YH-VLT10-GR-ANGLE.jpg

Don't all those holes let in a lot more rain? And how about us older guys who are losing our hair? Don't those 'swoopy' helmets with all those holes let the sunshine through, which sunburns our scalps???

It makes ya' look faster even when you're stopped.

exactly.........in other words it's a wank

Don't all those holes let in a lot more rain? And how about us older guys who are losing our hair? Don't those 'swoopy' helmets with all those holes let the sunshine through, which sunburns our scalps???

If you're riding around in the rain on a hot day ... great! Let the rain in!!

If you're riding around in the rain on a cool day ... you've got a helmet cover on, don't you?

And no worries about sunburning my scalp ... I've got thick, waist-length hair. But in Rowan's case, he wears a bandana.

For better or worse, the "swoopy" helmets are lighter. Designers have removed a lot of material and added the fins/vents they have for a reason-- weight and airflow as other have said. They may look "dorky" off the bike, but when you're riding, a really well-ventilated swoopy helmet feels light and almost disappears. I don't even notice mine anymore, but if I look at it off the bike it looks silly. I used to think a non-swoopy, BMX-style helmet would be better. Now, I love my LAS helmet and would never consider wearing a poorly ventilated hotbox like one of those.

The helmet I have seen most often praised recently for it's ventilation is the Catlike Whisper.
And it does this w/o tailfins, and w/o a pointed rear.

"Catlike Whisper". Now there's a creepy otherworldly design !! :eek:The shape of the holes reminds me very much of the creepy frogs that carry their young in holes in the back!! :twitchy::twitchy:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aCayq56wHSA

Catlike Whisper:

Plusses - good ventillation and non-dorky looks.
Minuses - $229.00.

Not going to happen at the Grouch household.

"Catlike Whisper". Now there's a creepy otherworldly design !! :eek:The shape of the holes reminds me very much of the creepy frogs that carry their young in holes in the back!! :twitchy::twitchy:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aCayq56wHSA

Holy crap!:eek:
Never heard of this before.

Catlike Whisper:

Plusses - good ventillation and non-dorky looks.
Minuses - $229.00.

Not going to happen at the Grouch household.

Agreed.
I'd be happy to try one ... for 25% of that price.

http://images.jensonusa.com/large/he/he278a01_black_white.jpg
No swoop here.

http://images.jensonusa.com/large/he/he278a01_black_white.jpg
No swoop here.

Except for the spoiler on the back!!