Classic & Vintage - Stress cracks in rim

I trash picked an old Peugeot today, it's in rough shape but fixable. After a good scrubbing I noticed some small cracks around the spoke holes on the back wheel. Most are on the right side. The rims are dead true and all the spokes are tight, but I wouldn't say too tight or anything. The rims have no brand at all. The hubs are marked Normandy Made in France. How long might something like this last? The wheels seem solid. The most the bike will need is a set of tires and a few cables. I was able to ride it the way it is but didn't go far in the cold today. I was afraid my hands would freeze to the bare aluminum handle bars in this weather.

http://i55.tinypic.com/23qz79t.jpg

Toss the rims back in the trash bin you found them in.....JMHO.

Strip the hubs from the rims and toss the rims in the trash.

It lasted you the 20 minutes or so it took to ride it home, so count yourself lucky. You NEED to change out that rim.

The hubs should be good - do a bearing rebuild on each one to inspect the bearing surfaces. Replace the balls with new ones.

Are those Rigida AL1320 rims? I had the same stress cracks on the rims that came on my French bike... looks to have the same shape as yours. If you have the other rim and it's an AL1320 with no stress cracks, and you are willing to part with it, I'll take it!

Can you show us a photo of the hub?

are there eyelets in the rim? as the other have said they are trash. dependng howmany are cracked it could last hundreds of miles or ten miles. in my younger days I would have chanced it for a day or two but nevr let a customer walk out the door with that wheel

+1 on keeping the hubs but trashing the rim(s).

The rims are junk. Don't ride them.

For what it's worth...when I decided to claen up my at the time un-riden 1985 Trek in about 2000, I (fortunately) noticed the rims had many cracks in the sides of the rims. When I say cracks...I mean cracks...when the tires were removed you could see thru the cracks. The rims likely had some 3000 miles on them (years prior). I had the wheels rebuilt using the original Maillard 500 hubs and new Mavic rims...don't recall the cost. I now wish I had got all new wheels, as it's very hard to find parts (such as cone nuts) for the old Maillard hubs.

http://toast.anu.edu.au/includes/images/toast_slices.jpg

http://whatscookingamerica.net/Eggs/FrenchToastOr.jpg

:lol:

http://whatscookingamerica.net/Eggs/FrenchToastOr.jpg

How do you know the rims are French? They could ...... uh, okay probably French......

Had a car with a French built alternator, after a year they replaced it under warranty, after another year, they replaced it under warranty, after another year the Alternator died again, took it to a local electric motor shop, they rebuilt it, the car died before that alternator could give problems again.....

Neal, that's awful.

I admit I had to peek at the file name. I was wondering what soggy toast had to do with anything.

Fwiw, I love French toast (and have a French tubular rim with a crack near a spoke hole that I continue to ride).

Neal

I'm hungry..........

http://whatscookingamerica.net/Eggs/FrenchToastOr.jpg

One of my favorite breakfast foods. I use cinnamon raisin bread with vanilla. Yum.

The rims have no brand markings on them and no grommets. They could be Rigida but I thought 1320s had grommets? These do have washers under each nipple.
Only about 10 spokes show cracks, and they didn't go out of true at all when I rode it, which surprised me in that I'm over 300lbs, and over 6' tall.
What's the worst that could happen? I wouldn't think that the whole rim would just explode all at once, at best I'd figure it would just start popping spokes after a while?
I don't ride hard these days, nor very far in this weather, so I figured I'd just run it till it gives out. Its a back wheel not a front so even if it locked up it won't be as bad as loosing a front wheel. Maybe I'll double up on the rim tape and rough them up a bit on a dirt trailer and see what happens? If it don't explode there I'll run them till they go while I look for a replacement rim?

What would be a good suitable double wall 700C rim to use that won't break the bank? They want a mint for anything vintage, or new old stock these days. If they were 27" wheels I'd be fine, I have a few spares but I've got nothing in 700C.

Yes, the rim is a goner but normally they don't fail catastrophically. Typically, as the rim deforms around the hole, the spoke loses tension and the wheel goes out of true. At worst, the nipple pulls though the rim. Either case is no worse than breaking a spoke.

BTW, my wife wants you all to know that the proper condiment for French toast is not syrup but ketchup. She argues that French toast is simply bread marinated in eggs and you don't put syrup on eggs. Fortunately, it's one of the few things we disagree upon.

Syrup is A1 as long as it's 100% real maple syrup from Ontario, Quebec, Vermont, or New Hampshire. Well, OK, Pennsylvania and New York make good maple syrup too. At a breakfast buffet table in a little hotel in Appenzell Switzerland there was, of all things, maple syrup imported from, of all places, Canada.
No French toast though.

Yes, the rim is a goner but normally they don't fail catastrophically. Typically, as the rim deforms around the hole, the spoke loses tension and the wheel goes out of true. At worst, the nipple pulls though the rim. Either case is no worse than breaking a spoke.

BTW, my wife wants you all to know that the proper condiment for French toast is not syrup but ketchup. She argues that French toast is simply bread marinated in eggs and you don't put syrup on eggs. Fortunately, it's one of the few things we disagree upon.

The way I see it, the whole thing was free, I have to spring for some bar tape and new tires, beyond that, it should be fine, if a better wheelset shows up, I swap it out but for now I'll just loosen the spokes in the holes with the cracks double up the spoke washers inside, tap the cracks closed and use a bit of JB weld on the area and once it's dry, I'll retention the spokes.
I'd bet money that it'll buy these a good bit of time before they fail.
I thought I got lucky today, I trash picked a no name bike with two nice looking Weinnman rims that are a dead ringer for these but their 27" not 700C. The rear would work but the front won't go unless I run a super small 27" tire. The Mafac calipers would reach either size, and both have quick release hubs.
I also pulled the handle bars off and have them soaking in a bucket of gas to get about 5 layers of duct tape and black electrical tape off. I also don't like the hollow stem on this thing, I broke one years ago and got lucky, I don't care to tempt fate twice. I tried one from another bike but no go, the hole is smaller just enough that it won't fit.
Here's another pic, this is the worst hole out of the ten with cracks. Two are this bad, the others show far less damage. All of the spoke holes are bulged a little bit, the front wheel is too but not as bad. If the rims weren't dead true with a decent braking surface, it wouldn't be so bad. Besides, what would I use that would look right on an older bike in 700C rims? They have to match the 36 spoke Normandy hubs.

Grab a set of wheels from a cheap and/or junked "donor bike", or buy a set of new rims and rebuild the wheels as a winter hobby project. If you haven't built up a set of wheels, you can get how-to information online and be on your way to developing a great new skill that can come in handy.

27" rims .... http://www.niagaracycle.com/index.php?cPath=123_379
700c rims .... http://www.niagaracycle.com/index.php?cPath=123_380

Check out the prices these guys have for tires, cables and everything else. Many are unbeatable!

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2305/1740944718_0f8c801691_t.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/ohura-art/1740944718/) http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2305/1740944718_0f8c801691_t.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/ohura-art/1740944718/) http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2305/1740944718_0f8c801691_t.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/ohura-art/1740944718/) http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2305/1740944718_0f8c801691_t.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/ohura-art/1740944718/) http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2305/1740944718_0f8c801691_t.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/ohura-art/1740944718/) http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2785/4046893193_b95759cc82.jpg

Trash 'em. Rims do not last forever. They will eventually blow up. This is what happened to one of mine after ~15 years as a daily commuter:
http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs206.snc1/7328_800522140060_926438_46211430_5065428_n.jpg

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs206.snc1/7328_800522145050_926438_46211431_6687204_n.jpg

Trash 'em. Rims do not last forever. They will eventually blow up. This is what happened to one of mine after ~15 years as a daily commuter:
http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs206.snc1/7328_800522140060_926438_46211430_5065428_n.jpg

Most people do not ride their bicycles enough to allow the rims to get to this point. I've only seen this a handful of times and generally there was a big, deep circumferential score from something embedded in the brake pad. However, I have seen several ATB rims which were getting dangerously close, having a pronounced concave sidewall, which is not suprising given the conditions they're ridden in. Commuting would be better, though not much if you're an all-weather commuter. No doubt, disc brakes are the solution for this sort of problem but lacking that, periodic inspection and picking foreign material out of pads will help delay the process.

BTW, great pic for your avatar. Given you location, I assume that was taken on the Charles? We were down there this past October, watching my son's crew win their event at the Head race.

BTW, Monsieur Slowleak, Peugeot photographies...s'il vous plait.

Pix...we dig 'em, baby! ;)

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2605/4094850622_86956bf270_z.jpg

Most people do not ride their bicycles enough to allow the rims to get to this point. I've only seen this a handful of times and generally there was a big, deep circumferential score from something embedded in the brake pad. However, I have seen several ATB rims which were getting dangerously close, having a pronounced concave sidewall, which is not suprising given the conditions they're ridden in. Commuting would be better, though not much if you're an all-weather commuter. No doubt, disc brakes are the solution for this sort of problem but lacking that, periodic inspection and picking foreign material out of pads will help delay the process.

BTW, great pic for your avatar. Given you location, I assume that was taken on the Charles? We were down there this past October, watching my son's crew win their event at the Head race.

We are a one car family and my wife works outside the city, so my bike is my (and my two kids in the trailer) primary mode of transport.

Congrats to your son! Now I only race a few times a year and the Head is one I never miss. The picture was taken in 1997 during a practice session at the World Championships in Lac d'Aiguebelette, France. My last year on the National Team....

Grab a set of wheels from a cheap and/or junked "donor bike", or buy a set of new rims and rebuild the wheels as a winter hobby project. If you haven't built up a set of wheels, you can get how-to information online and be on your way to developing a great new skill that can come in handy.

27" rims .... http://www.niagaracycle.com/index.php?cPath=123_379
700c rims .... http://www.niagaracycle.com/index.php?cPath=123_380

Check out the prices these guys have for tires, cables and everything else. Many are unbeatable!



I took a look there but I didn't see much in 36 spoke that looked anything like what I have. Everything is either super deep, extra wide, or aero style. A few there looked possible but I didn't see any width or specs listed.
Any suggestion? The ideal rim I guess would be something that looks like a Rigida 1320 or Araya 20A, with some grommets in the spoke holes so this don't happen again.

I had a set of rims years ago, not sure what brand they were but they were low end and well used. Someone gave me a new set of extra high pressure tires rated at 110psi, vs the 90 or so psi that I was running.
Liking how well higher pressure tires rolled I mounted them up and inflated to 110 psi. I was walking away from the bike to put the pump back in the garage when the rear tire exploded. The tire blew off the rim, but it didn't jump over the bead, the rim blew out the side, it looked a lot like the rim pictured above. The rim had flattened out and split along about an 8" section, when it did so it let go of several spokes and the resulting warp locked the wheel against the seat stays. It had lost about 6 right side spokes, or at least lost tension on that many on all on once side in the same spot so the rim just folded over not having the support of that one edge.

The tire was fine, the tube was in two pieces with on end hanging out the side. It sounded like a shot gun blast. While I was looking at the rear damage, the front tire blew out as well, spreading out the one side of the rim but not as bad. The tires were high end 1" skinwalls.

I took a look there but I didn't see much in 36 spoke that looked anything like what I have. Everything is either super deep, extra wide, or aero style. A few there looked possible but I didn't see any width or specs listed.
Any suggestion? The ideal rim I guess would be something that looks like a Rigida 1320 or Araya 20A, with some grommets in the spoke holes so this don't happen again.

The Alex x404 caught my eye. I like the center ridge, which reminds me of the old Araya and Ukai rims. Jenson also has the for $12.95 each .... http://www.jensonusa.com/store/product/RI308B10-Alex+X404+Rim.aspx
Yea, I know. It doesn't look French.

Liking how well higher pressure tires rolled I mounted them up and inflated to 110 psi. I was walking away from the bike to put the pump back in the garage when the rear tire exploded.

I have grown to dread hearing the creak... creak... creak... sound, followed by a flash of recognition, a frantic dash and dive toward an about to explode, recently inflated tube seeking its freedom, in a doomed attempt to reach the inflation valve and relieve the pressure before the inevitable explosion... :eek::twitchy::notamused:

Fortunately, the occurences have tapered off lately, now that I'm refraining from pairing low price tires with non-hooked rims and inflating them to the max pressure indicated on the sidewall... :)

The Alex x404 caught my eye. I like the center ridge, which reminds me of the old Araya and Ukai rims. Jenson also has the for $12.95 each .... http://www.jensonusa.com/store/product/RI308B10-Alex+X404+Rim.aspx
Yea, I know. It doesn't look French.
The X404 is wide compared to what I have, these are more like Rigida 1320s not the Araya 18 or w/o as sometimes referred to. They are also 27" only, I need 700C.

Anyhow, today, the dumpster again seems to have provided. I picked up a badly trashed, rusted, purple steel clunker, with two minty clean 700C Weinmann rims laced to 'Quando' quick release hubs. The bike has all Altenburger brakes, and steel everything else. It looks like someone made a bad attempt at removing the cottered steel cranks without removing the cotters first. I pulled the wheels, rear derailleur, (Suntour 7), and the apparently new Z chain, brakes, and bars and left the rusty carcass for the scrap guys. It was just too nasty to put in the new car.
The forks and frame were all super low end, bright purple, foil decals, stamped dropouts, and steel everything. I also saved the super sized 'Cloud 9' super sized saddle.

The rims are in great shape, and look almost just like those with the cracks. They are filthy dirty but a good wash will fix that. The tires are minty looking Specialized Tri Sport 700x25C, with thorn resistant tubes. All I need to do now is loose the odd ball hubs in favor of something proper.
I'm not sure what model the Weinmann rims are, but they appear to be nearly identical to Rigida 1320s but are more brushed or polished finish. The rear rim has some brake wear but nothing serious, I think it will polish right out. They are spaced 126mm and have a Suntour 6 speed freewheel.
In the same dumpster was another wheelset, a set of unknown 27" rims with the same tires, and steel nutted hubs. The rims are decent, perfectly true but they have stains all over from what ever was spilled on them. Sort of like acid rain type marks on the dull aluminum surface. They appear to have been respoked with stainless spokes recently as the spokes are new and shiny looking.
I tired the 27" rims and they could work too, but are a tighter fit and I'd have to move the pads all the way up to get rim contact. The 27" rims are a bit wider, and are 5 angle type rims, where as an Araya would be a simple box, these have a narrow corner flat where the sides meet the spoke bed surface. The hubs were Shimano 3.3.3.

We are a one car family and my wife works outside the city, so my bike is my (and my two kids in the trailer) primary mode of transport.

Congrats to your son! Now I only race a few times a year and the Head is one I never miss. The picture was taken in 1997 during a practice session at the World Championships in Lac d'Aiguebelette, France. My last year on the National Team....

Thxs. I'll relay the message to him. Looks like we have lots in common. The wife is the driver in out family too. I walk or bicycle commute and used to tote my son around in a trialer. My son was on the Canadian National Junior Team (8+) last year and competed at the World's in Racine, Czech Republic. If he does well at the Indoor Nationals next weekend he's eligible for the World's in Boston, so there's a possibility that we may be back down your way in a few weeks.

I have grown to dread hearing the creak... creak... creak... sound, followed by a flash of recognition, a frantic dash and dive toward an about to explode, recently inflated tube seeking its freedom, in a doomed attempt to reach the inflation valve and relieve the pressure before the inevitable explosion... :eek::twitchy::notamused:

Fortunately, the occurences have tapered off lately, now that I'm refraining from pairing low price tires with non-hooked rims and inflating them to the max pressure indicated on the sidewall... :)

It's one thing when the tire slips and lets the tube out, but another when the rim can't handle the pressure and ruptures. It used to be fairly common to see high pressure tires put on low end rims, even steel rims for that matter, which blew out the side of the rim not just the tube. One that comes to mind was a guy that put 110psi Continental tires on an old set of department store steel rims. The side of the rim just flattened right out.

http://whatscookingamerica.net/Eggs/FrenchToastOr.jpg

Oh crap, I just got it. That is totally hilarious!

I had a set of rims years ago, not sure what brand they were but they were low end and well used. Someone gave me a new set of extra high pressure tires rated at 110psi, vs the 90 or so psi that I was running.
Liking how well higher pressure tires rolled I mounted them up and inflated to 110 psi. I was walking away from the bike to put the pump back in the garage when the rear tire exploded. The tire blew off the rim, but it didn't jump over the bead, the rim blew out the side, it looked a lot like the rim pictured above. The rim had flattened out and split along about an 8" section, when it did so it let go of several spokes and the resulting warp locked the wheel against the seat stays. It had lost about 6 right side spokes, or at least lost tension on that many on all on once side in the same spot so the rim just folded over not having the support of that one edge.

The tire was fine, the tube was in two pieces with on end hanging out the side. It sounded like a shot gun blast. While I was looking at the rear damage, the front tire blew out as well, spreading out the one side of the rim but not as bad. The tires were high end 1" skinwalls.

I thought the general rule on straight sided steel rims was 80PSI as an absolute max, doesn't matter if the tire is rated 80,000,000PSI, something to do with the weakest link.....

I thought the general rule on straight sided steel rims was 80PSI as an absolute max, doesn't matter if the tire is rated 80,000,000PSI, something to do with the weakest link.....
Maybe so, but they never put that on the rim anywhere back then, I had never heard of blowing up the rim not the tire.
Just about any road bike tire you buy now is rated at 90psi or more. I'd even be concerned about some single wall aluminum rims at higher pressures. I do have 110psi skin walls on a set of Araya 18 rims though with no problems so far running at 105psi, which is the max my pump will go.
If I don't go to the max pressure or if I run cheaper tires that take only 90 psi they look flat when I sit on the bike.
At 330lbs or so of my weight and what ever I have on the back rack I need as much pressure between the rim and the road as I can get. As I get older, I don't foresee getting any lighter, so I'm not sure what to do about tires if I can't go above 80psi on single wall rims. Right now, only one bike of mine has steel rims, a pair of Araya narrow steel rims that have a pair of 27 x 1 1/8" skin wall Cycle Pro tires on them marked at 100psi. I run those at 100 with no problems but their a super tight fit to install and I've got thick thorn resistant tubes in them.