Classic and Vintage Bicycles: What's it Worth? Appraisals and Inquiries - 198? Panasonic Team America - Dura Ace
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I have the opportunity to purchase a 198? Panasonic Team America with full DA for $550. The components are as follows:
* Frame Size: 58 cm
* Frame: Columbus SP & SL Cr-Mo double butted tubes, lostwax head and seat lugs, Shimano EF forged ends and Shimano New Dura Ace sealed B.B. set.
* Fork: Columbus SP blades, Tange C-10 lostwax crown, Shimano EF forged ends and Shimano New Dura Ace sealed head set.
* Handlebar: Nitto No. 165, Maes alloy
* Stem: Nitto Pearl, Forged alloy
* Saddle: Selle Italia Super Turbo with Shimano Dura Ace EX seat post.
* Crankset: Shimano New Dura Ace 53/42T
* Freewheel: Shimano New Dura Ace 6-speed 12-19T, Cassette type.
* Chain: Shimano 600 UG Silver,
* Hubs: Shimano New Dura Ace, Freehub sealed mechanisms 32H
* Rear Derailleur: Shimano New Dura Ace (7400) S.I.S.
* Front Derailleur: Shimano New Dura Ace (7400)
* Shifting Lever: Shimano New Dura Ace S.I.S., brazed on down tube mounted.
* Brakes: Shimano New Dura Ace BR-7400, alloy side pull with Dura Ace AX aero levers.
* Rims: 1 Araya Aero tubular ADX-4, 32h, 1 Wolber Aero 32h
* Tires: Continental Giros tulular
* Spokes: Stainless 14G
* Pedals: 1st gen. Look Clipless
* Color: Special Tri Color Paint
I'm just wondering what your thoughts are on the seller's valuation of this bike. Do I bite or do I wait for another Japanese or Dutch racer to come along. I've been looking for a really nice Japanese bike since I discovered a crack in my Miyata 710.
01-25-11, 01:52 PM
the seller is just listing parts. with 6spd I suspect it is about an '87ish. can you get some pics? I know it has DA but it is 20+ yo and without pics there is no way to know the condition. you may have to start replacing overly worn drive train parts. IMHO $550 might be a bit too much esp sight unseen. take a chaing gauge with you!!
Thanks for the response BG.
See the attached images below and let me know what you think please :)
bump. does anyone else have an opinion on this one?
01-25-11, 06:58 PM
bump. does anyone else have an opinion on this one?
You don't really need to bump a post after only 4 hours.
Its a 1986 Panasonic Team America. Very hard to find, near the top of the line bike, so if it is what you want, you probably should buy it. Bike was second in their product line (Team Europe I was the top, and was all Campy, mainly Campy Super Record).
However, if you are open to other high end models, then I believe the price is too high. Certainly it is a good looking bike, and priced less than what an entry level new bike sells for. So if it is what you want, go for it.
And it depends where you live.
Bike is a little dirty, flat tires, some very minor scrapes. I would look for a discount, and assume bike will need a tuneup.
What is your opinion on tubulars?
Note, in my experience, any seller that gives that level of detail is going to ask full market or higher. At least that has been my experience. The best deals have sketchy/limited or even no information. (seller probably just cut and paste it from an on-line catalog, so verify the actual parts match the description).
thanks for the input wrk101. I think I may hold off unless he comes a bit down on price. take care.
01-25-11, 07:11 PM
it is a nice looking bike but like I said it could have alot of wear on the drivetrain. is it a dream bike?
has it been for sale for awhile?
+1 If it is your dream bike, go for it. You will not see that model again in your size, locally, for a long, long time. I looked for my dream bike for two years, and ended up finding it in Logan, UT (not exactly local to the Carolinas).
Thanks again wrk101 and BG! I've contacted the seller a couple times and the list of parts he provided are what's hanging on the bike. Note the mismatch rims. This really isn't the be all and end all bike for me, just a nice example of some Japanese steel that caught my interest. Right now my dream bike is a Dutch Made Diamant from the early nineties. The ones with the full chrome rear triangle, wishbone seat stay, and the funky air brush paint jobs. I've been looking for about a year now and saw one example but was unable to scrounge the funds at the time. I'm also very interested in acquiring a Columbus MAX frame.
Again, thank you for your input it's greatly appreciated.
01-25-11, 10:24 PM
He has been trying to sell it for nearly a year now, it was listed back in the spring of 2010
If you are looking for a Japan built bike that would be a step up above the Miyata 710, there are a lot of choices out there. I have a couple Panasonic built Schwinns, so called "Schwinn-asonics" that I think would qualify: I have two Schwinn Prologues (a 1987 and a 1988) and a 1992 Schwinn Paramount Series V. I don't see many Prologues out there (except on this list), but I have seen a fair number of the Paramount Series V. The Series III and Series II were made in Taiwan for a while.
On the Dura Ace front, I have a 1986 Paramount (US made), with the Dura Ace 6 speed SIS stuff. That's a nice bike too, and it came with a Columbus SLX frameset.
Personally, rather than lock into a specific model, I look for features instead. Locking into a specific model can get expensive, and limits the supply a lot.
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