Foo - The Electronic Cigarette Thread

Please don't let this become a smoking flame-fest. This is to talk about the technology and all the available gadgetry out there.

I bought an Njoy NPRO starter kit 3 days ago. Njoy is the brand, NPRO is the model. It's currently being sold at all 7-Elevens around here.

The Njoy NPRO starter kits @ 7-Eleven are pretty cheap @ $19.95 and come with:

- 1 Battery
- 1 Charger (USB)
- 2 x Cartridges

The cartridges it came with where the regular flavor so I also bought a pack of 5 menthol cartridges for another 20 bucks.

From my short experience a cartridge will last like 3/4 of a pack so price is almost the same per cartridge as buying regular cigs.

The regular flavor cartridges actually taste like grape, weird. The menthol ones compare to newport lights.

I did some research and it turns out that the cartridges I bought are 1.2% nicotine content which is suppose to be an equivalent to a "light" cigarette. Cartridges with more nicotine content (1.8%) are available on the internet.

Now, these e-cigs are a 2 part device. The battery and the cartridge. Inside the cartridge you will find both the "atomizer" (what makes the water vapor) and the nicotine liquid. Higher end e-cigs are 3 part devices, with battery-->atomizer->cartridge where the cartridge only has the nicotine liquid. On this higher end models you can refill the cartridges yourself and reuse the atomizer a few times before trowing it away.

So, I made more research...

It turns out that the Njoy NPRO is based on a design called the "RN4081". Many popular e-cigs are also based on the RN4081 and parts are compatible. Atomizers and Refillable cartridges for the RN4081 are supposed to fit like a globe on the NPRO batteries.

I'm gonna hit the local smoke shops tomorrow to see if they carry the RN4081 compatible Atomizers, Empty Cartridges, E-Liquid (the nicotine solution) and Flavors... If I can't find them, I'll be ordering from the internet. Will let you know how it goes.

I haven't own the thing long enough as to make proper review. But I've been using at work when the cravings kick in (every 2 hours) and it kept me from getting out the building for a "real" smoke break. Pretty cool smoking in the office too... lol

You sound like you're becomin addicted to ecigs?

Had a co-worker who smoked his electronic cig in the office. It smelled just like a cig to me....maybe he was doing something wrong with it, but I couldn't stand it.

Please don't let this become a smoking flame-fest. This is to talk about the technology and all the available gadgetry out there.

I bought an Njoy NPRO starter kit 3 days ago. Njoy is the brand, NPRO is the model. It's currently being sold at all 7-Elevens around here.

The Njoy NPRO starter kits @ 7-Eleven are pretty cheap @ $19.95 and come with:

- 1 Battery
- 1 Charger (USB)
- 2 x Cartridges

The cartridges it came with where the regular flavor so I also bought a pack of 5 menthol cartridges for another 20 bucks.

From my short experience a cartridge will last like 3/4 of a pack so price is almost the same per cartridge as buying regular cigs.

The regular flavor cartridges actually taste like grape, weird. The menthol ones compare to newport lights.

I did some research and it turns out that the cartridges I bought are 1.2% nicotine content which is suppose to be an equivalent to a "light" cigarette. Cartridges with more nicotine content (1.8%) are available on the internet.

Now, these e-cigs are a 2 part device. The battery and the cartridge. Inside the cartridge you will find both the "atomizer" (what makes the water vapor) and the nicotine liquid. Higher end e-cigs are 3 part devices, with battery-->atomizer->cartridge where the cartridge only has the nicotine liquid. On this higher end models you can refill the cartridges yourself and reuse the atomizer a few times before trowing it away.

So, I made more research...

It turns out that the Njoy NPRO is based on a design called the "RN4081". Many popular e-cigs are also based on the RN4081 and parts are compatible. Atomizers and Refillable cartridges for the RN4081 are supposed to fit like a globe on the NPRO batteries.

I'm gonna hit the local smoke shops tomorrow to see if they carry the RN4081 compatible Atomizers, Empty Cartridges, E-Liquid (the nicotine solution) and Flavors... If I can't find them, I'll be ordering from the internet. Will let you know how it goes.

I haven't own the thing long enough as to make proper review. But I've been using at work when the cravings kick in (every 2 hours) and it kept me from getting out the building for a "real" smoke break. Pretty cool smoking in the office too... lol

If you haven't tried it, Swedish Snus in an outstanding substitute. You can order it online, takes a week to arrive. 100s of styles to choose from. Don't even bother with the american stuff, it's junk.

I saw something on tv last night about failed inventions, and they mentioned the flameless Premier cigarette from 1988. Maybe you could pick up some of them for even less than the current model.

Hey Rube,
Can you repack those ciggolectrics with Daytona Doobies?

One of my co-workers got a $60 kit, I don't know what brand, but he is very happy with them and claims he is smoking less (including the e-cigs).

He doesn't stink like tobacco anymore.

I believe that is a mini vaporizer and is a "tobacco product" in the same way a bong is a "tobacco product."

The "smell" some people complain about is either one of these 2:

1. The person still smokes regular cigarettes when outside the building, and e-cigs inside. He will smell from the real cigs, it sticks to you.
2. The person actually uses a nicotine solution that has additives to smell like the real thing. Uncommon but possible.

The technology is indeed a "vaporizer". Same thing as toy trains that trow "puffs" into the air.

Back in 1988, a pack of cigs was like $1.25 - $1.50 and you could smoke in a lot of places. Plus lithium ion batteries didn't exist so yeah, it had to fail back then. Now days batteries exist, cigs are way to expensive (taxes mostly) and people don't wanna deal with the smoke anymore.

I visited many local shops, they don't carry the supplies I need (liquid nicotine, empty cartridges, etc). It seems they can't make big profits out of e-cigs because internet shops are SOOOOO cheap that's difficult to compete.

I'm gonna spend some time researching online shops but I already know what I'm gonna get... I'll go with the slightly larger "510". Seems to be far more popular than the 4081, ergo, easier to get parts and supplies for it. Manual battery, separate atomizer, refillable cartridges. Something like this:

http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn53/RubenX_Longwood/E-Cigs/Ecig_510_instr.jpg

I believe that is a mini vaporizer and is a "tobacco product" in the same way a bong is a "tobacco product."

Oh... missed this one. The answer is NO. The nicotine is synthetic, no tobacco is used in its manufacture. It is not a "Tobacco Product".

Oh... missed this one. The answer is NO. The nicotine is synthetic, no tobacco is used in its manufacture. It is not a "Tobacco Product".

He's talking about a different vaporizer, Ruben. They sell one for alternative burn materials as well as nicotine cartridges.

It's like my plasma jet pipe lighter. I could have spent $75 on a Ronson Pipe Torch, or the $5.99 I spent on the cheap plasma lighter they sell in a headshop to heat up and vaporize the contents of that little glass pipe. I bought the cheapie from the headshop because it works as well as the Ronson Pipe torch to light my Cavendish tobacco, and so far, I've gotten 2 years use out of the cheapie. It's also windproof. :p

He's talking about a different vaporizer, Ruben. They sell one for alternative burn materials as well as nicotine cartridges.

Oh well... in that case, a personal vaporizer is just a delivery system. Like a pipe, it could be filled with many different things. I even heard of people filling up the cartridges with Albuterol/saline solutions and using them as asthma inhalers.

Oh well... in that case, a personal vaporizer is just a delivery system. Like a pipe, it could be filled with many different things. I even heard of people filling up the cartridges with Albuterol/saline solutions and using them as asthma inhalers.

With the right cartridge it give a whole new meaning to (electric)"buzz".This product "will" be abused.

*The only thing you need to suck in is air+food.

Hey Ruben. I like the thing in the cig, but are you taking the cost of this gizmo into account?

can't you just add a little bit of this liquid nicotine to your coffee?

Is there going to be any wacka waka puffa puffa with this later? I'd think so.

@ jccaclimber

The the initial cost of the gizmo starting @ 19.95 I didn't really take it into account. Even a great super gizmo would be around $30 - $35 bucks. With the savings over traditional cigarettes it's like it's free.

@ black_box

Dunno. Will research :)

@ no motor

No wacka wacka but definitely lots of puff puff.

@ jccaclimber

The the initial cost of the gizmo starting @ 19.95 I didn't really take it into account. Even a great super gizmo would be around $30 - $35 bucks. With the savings over traditional cigarettes it's like it's free.

@ black_box

Dunno. Will research :)

@ no motor

No wacka wacka but definitely lots of puff puff.

Easy on that "puff puff" hombre.I saw a guy turn into a lizard from that.

Hi guys,

I received my new E-Cig yesterday, a Joye Ego which is basically a 510 with a bigger battery. The amount of vapor coming out of this thing is just amazing. It's like 10 times the vapor of the cheap Npro I started with. THIS really feels like a real cigarette. I can honestly say I know prefer to suck on the Ego E-cig MORE THAN a regular newport... it is THAT GOOD.

The Ego standard batteries are 650mah (blows the 180mah Npro out the water) and lasts the whole day. The one I got has a USB port in the other end so it can be used as a pass-trough as well, enabling you to vape and charge at the same time.

The only thing is that after a few uses, the cartridge starts to gets dry (duh) and vapor amount decreases. Opening the cartridge and topping it off with 3 or 4 drops of e-juice gets the vapor back to amazing levels. But I will like to try the Ego Tank cartridge. Those hold a lot more e-juice. But for now, the current setup works like a charm.

As for the e-juice, I'm vaping something called "SAM-Mint", VG base @ 26mg strength. I only ordered a small 10ml bottle to try it, but I love it and will order a whole lot more before I go sampling anything else.

Here's some pictures:

http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb66/Shameless_Avenger/EGO-KIT-BLACK.jpg
* Joye Ego (http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb66/Shameless_Avenger/EGO-KIT-BLACK.jpg)

http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb66/Shameless_Avenger/98.jpg
* The Pass-through battery I'm using (http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb66/Shameless_Avenger/98.jpg)

Vape on!

I have a friend who works for Freedom Smoke USA (hilarious name, great company).

Rube, if you wanna quit nicotine, quit it. If you're using this as a helping tool, use it as a tool and wean yourself off the stuff.

Actually, that's an interesting question. Rube, are you using this to kick the addiction, or because you can do it indoors and because you can't afford cigarettes?

"Smoking" is the act of sucking on a burning stick filled with Tobacco, tar and 300 other nasty things.

"Vaping" is the act of sucking a vaporizer device that gives you Propylene Glycol, nicotine and water.

By switching to vapor you can say you quit smoking, because you are not burning anything. You are still using nicotine, yes. But you are not smoking and that is a great thing.

Think of it this way. Let's say you use to drive a big 4x4, Hummer sized, blasting CO2 everywhere you go. Then one day you switch to a small, greener, fully electric car. Yes, you are still called a "cager" among the car free community as you are still driving a car. But it would be silly to say that since you are not yet "car free", all the benefits of the electric car should be ignored.

Actually, that's an interesting question. Rube, are you using this to kick the addiction, or because you can do it indoors and because you can't afford cigarettes?


Initially, I figured the thread and the signature were just an odd coincidence, like: You bought the faux cigarette, realized how silly it was to let your addiction control you and make you jump through hoops, and decided to just quit instead.

It wasn't until you updated this thread with another faux cigarette purchase that I noticed the signature isn't about stopping smoking, but instead about "not using cigarettes," which is more than a little disingenuous.

Do I smell a Foo intervention coming on here?

Do I smell a Foo intervention coming on here?

You'll have better luck taking away Pcad's I-phone than Rube's NicoStick. ;)

excellent, they've simplified it down to candy flavored addiction sticks.

"Smoking" is the act of sucking on a burning stick filled with Tobacco, tar and 300 other nasty things.

"Vaping" is the act of sucking a vaporizer device that gives you Propylene Glycol, nicotine and water.

By switching to vapor you can say you quit smoking, because you are not burning anything. You are still using nicotine, yes. But you are not smoking and that is a great thing.

Think of it this way. Let's say you use to drive a big 4x4, Hummer sized, blasting CO2 everywhere you go. Then one day you switch to a small, greener, fully electric car. Yes, you are still called a "cager" among the car free community as you are still driving a car. But it would be silly to say that since you are not yet "car free", all the benefits of the electric car should be ignored.

So you're fine with being addicted to nicotine?

You can believe is the same thing if you wish. It is not.

I've yet to see what my life insurance have to say about it. Will they give me a non-smoker rate? I'm not likely to die horrible dead @ lung cancer hospital now...

Will wait and see... in the mean time ...

/me inhales some vapor

...current Rube' recommendation is the Joye Ego, manual battery, with 510 atomizer and refillable cartridges, using VG base e-juice @ 24mg strength.

"Smoking" is the act of sucking on a burning stick filled with Tobacco, tar and 300 other nasty things.
"Vaping" is the act of sucking a vaporizer device that gives you Propylene Glycol, nicotine and water.
By switching to vapor you can say you quit smoking, because you are not burning anything. You are still using nicotine, yes. But you are not smoking and that is a great thing.
Think of it this way. Let's say you use to drive a big 4x4, Hummer sized, blasting CO2 everywhere you go. Then one day you switch to a small, greener, fully electric car. Yes, you are still called a "cager" among the car free community as you are still driving a car. But it would be silly to say that since you are not yet "car free", all the benefits of the electric car should be ignored.
True, you're just inhaling a poorly regulated drug. I'm curious as to how that isn't a drug/drug delivery device in the eyes of the law.
http://healthcare.utah.edu/pharmacy/alerts/400.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_cigarette#Health_questions
I agree that once more this is all relative, but you didn't answer the question of your long term plans (assuming any).

You can believe is the same thing if you wish. It is not.

I've yet to see what my life insurance have to say about it. Will they give me a non-smoker rate? I'm not likely to die horrible dead @ lung cancer hospital now...

Will wait and see... in the mean time ...

/me inhales some vapor

...current Rube' recommendation is the Joye Ego, manual battery, with 510 atomizer and refillable cartridges, using VG base e-juice @ 24mg strength.

I can tell you the company I work with won't give you non-smoker rates if you're vaping.

I dont know Rube.This addiction to electronic nicotine and hoochie-coochie has got you burning the candle at both ends.

I dont know Rube.This addiction to electronic nicotine and hoochie-coochie has got you burning the candle at both ends.


Who told you I love hoochie-coochie? Darn snitches!

True, you're just inhaling a poorly regulated drug. I'm curious as to how that isn't a drug/drug delivery device in the eyes of the law.
http://healthcare.utah.edu/pharmacy/alerts/400.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_cigarette#Health_questions
I agree that once more this is all relative, but you didn't answer the question of your long term plans (assuming any).

What is it that you want to regulate? Selling to minors? Already done voluntary by every vendor I know but yeah, that should be law. What else? You want to test the purity of the water used in the liquids? Are we already testing the purity of the stuff placed on tobacco cigarettes? Then what's the problem?

Drug/Drug delivery device in the eye of the law? as long as they include ALL vaporizers and not just target the smokers out of hate, I'm cool with it.... but I mean, ALL vaporizers:

http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn53/RubenX_Longwood/E-Cigs/ms01.jpghttp://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn53/RubenX_Longwood/E-Cigs/make-lionel-train-smoke-200X200.jpghttp://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn53/RubenX_Longwood/E-Cigs/63362.jpghttp://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn53/RubenX_Longwood/E-Cigs/QWPPMW2g-lzpGJ8VsKILCf2c9ByBTBm5-LgXEGY-mxoIQGXy564m3dTy_UoNDCHoP0QRd0bT5RoUFG7CauRIimslS5ovo43_U8noenOyP-GgRDFjxJqhMx8T5okAyIhQdt7poNBd6g.jpg

And then of course you would have to ban all cigarettes and tobacco (include pipe, cigars, etc) because otherwise it would be hypocrisy. Not to mention, if you make war on nicotine, why not make war on caffeine as well... and it keeps on going and what comes to mind is that clip from the movie "demolition man" where the girl says that everything that's bad for you is illegal.

Long term plans? I can't make any for now. Militant smoking haters already failed at the Federal ban but are now trying the state by state route. Illinois is OK, the ban got axed. Cali is good too, Arnold veto'd it. NY is still in fierce fight... but all the details belong to P&R, not to foo so I won't discuss them here. The fact is I can't make plans on something that, while could probably save me from cancer death, might still be taken away from me in the future by our government.

Please google and find out how much revenue does the government makes out of cigarette taxes. But again, discussing if they care about cancer or revenue, belongs to P&R, not to Foo.

Now if you wanna read some interesting articles, let's start with the Propylene Glycol:

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,932876,00.html

From the article:

"A powerful preventive against pneumonia, influenza and other respiratory diseases may be promised by a brilliant series of experiments conducted during the last three years at the University of Chicago's Billings Hospital. Dr. Oswald Hope Robertson last week was making final tests with a new germicidal vapor—propylene glycol—to sterilize air. If the results so far obtained are confirmed, one of the age-old searches of man will finally achieve its goal."

So not only I'm not gonna die from cancer, I'm not gonna get influenza either :thumb: No need to buy lysol sanitizer spray anymore. Just call Rube to vape around your house for a bit and voiala, no more bacteria. :twitchy:

As of now, I've decided that I will still go outside the building when inhaling my E-nicostik. Not that anybody has voiced any concerns, actually people are quite happy for me. But I do miss getting out the building, away of the stress for a few minutes. I'm not going to use the smoking designates areas tho... I don't want to inhale the 2nd hand smoke of the smokers there.

What is the chance of a beer-vaporizer so I can still relish Friday night while easing my cold?

What is the chance of a beer-vaporizer so I can still relish Friday night while easing my cold?

Dunno, but it is on my research list. My guess it would have to be some kind of alcohol solution but given that alcohol evaporates easy, I'm not sure what's gonna happen when it gets to the vaporizer. You can, however, get your alcohol in powder form:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcohol_powder

and check out the Booz2go fron the Netherlands:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cKVdlvUgRss&feature=player_embedded#

3% alcohol and powder Koolaid? The Dutch better stick to tulips and cheese.

What is it that you want to regulate? Selling to minors? Already done voluntary by every vendor I know but yeah, that should be law.
Yep, I want to see the law.

What else? You want to test the purity of the water used in the liquids? Are we already testing the purity of the stuff placed on tobacco cigarettes? Then what's the problem?
I'm not worried about tobacco grown here in the states/regulated countries partially because the regulation of farming seems decent and partly because there are far worse things in there already. I'm more concerned about people importing chemicals they plan to consume from less regulated countries such as China. When they decide to put something toxic in there because it saves them $0.01/month and medicare/medicaid/my health insurance company end up paying for it I'm less happy. More on this below.


Drug/Drug delivery device in the eye of the law? as long as they include ALL vaporizers and not just target the smokers out of hate, I'm cool with it.... but I mean, ALL vaporizers:
Next time I see a kid walking around with a wall vaporizer and a 120v AC power source, or a locomotive stuck to his nose I'll consider that. Ease of use as well as likelihood of use should be taken into account. There's a huge difference in recognizing that a product is designed and marketed towards easy drug delivery and "hate". I'm still going to argue that hypodermic needles should be restricted items even though I have lots of other uses for them (spraying solvent through small holes in bearing shields among others). I'm not however going to claim that a foot pump with a basket ball inflating needle is a pressurized injection device and then accuse you of being a hater for wanting to pick one up at SportsMart without a doctor's prescription.


And then of course you would have to ban all cigarettes and tobacco (include pipe, cigars, etc) because otherwise it would be hypocrisy. Not to mention, if you make war on nicotine, why not make war on caffeine as well... and it keeps on going and what comes to mind is that clip from the movie "demolition man" where the girl says that everything that's bad for you is illegal.

Why should I ban tobacco if I'm not even trying to ban these things? I'm just making the case that they should be regulated. Anyone who messes up the quantity an active ingredient by 100% probably needs a little regulation. Additionally I find putting nicotine, even in small amounts in things labeled as "nicotine free" is awfully questionable.


Long term plans? I can't make any for now. Militant smoking haters already failed at the Federal ban but are now trying the state by state route. Illinois is OK, the ban got axed. Cali is good too, Arnold veto'd it. NY is still in fierce fight... but all the details belong to P&R, not to foo so I won't discuss them here. The fact is I can't make plans on something that, while could probably save me from cancer death, might still be taken away from me in the future by our government.
Please google and find out how much revenue does the government makes out of cigarette taxes. But again, discussing if they care about cancer or revenue, belongs to P&R, not to Foo.

I suspect the health care costs of aging smokers offsets the tax revenues, but that is a P&R topic.


Now if you wanna read some interesting articles, let's start with the Propylene Glycol:
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,932876,00.html
From the article:
"A powerful preventive against pneumonia, influenza and other respiratory diseases may be promised by a brilliant series of experiments conducted during the last three years at the University of Chicago's Billings Hospital. Dr. Oswald Hope Robertson last week was making final tests with a new germicidal vapor—propylene glycol—to sterilize air. If the results so far obtained are confirmed, one of the age-old searches of man will finally achieve its goal."
So not only I'm not gonna die from cancer, I'm not gonna get influenza either :thumb: No need to buy lysol sanitizer spray anymore. Just call Rube to vape around your house for a bit and voiala, no more bacteria. :twitchy:

I'm not worried about propylene glycol, I'm concerned about diethylene glycol, a very different chemical.
Toxicology here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diethylene_glycol#Toxicology
Looks like China was regularly sneaking it in to things recently:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diethylene_glycol#2006_-_China
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diethylene_glycol#2007_-_Worldwide_toothpaste_incident


As of now, I've decided that I will still go outside the building when inhaling my E-nicostik. Not that anybody has voiced any concerns, actually people are quite happy for me. But I do miss getting out the building, away of the stress for a few minutes. I'm not going to use the smoking designates areas tho... I don't want to inhale the 2nd hand smoke of the smokers there.

What is the chance of a beer-vaporizer so I can still relish Friday night while easing my cold?
No, you need a neti-pot to cure your cold. That way you can directly flush the germs out with beer.

...stuff...

I pretty much agree with everything you say. In fact the only thing I disagree with is the savings you get if you order from China (China suppliers ATM are selling @ 1/6th the price of US retailers). But cheaper price in Chinese products doesn't necessarily mean they will all be dangerous and have to be banned.

Every few months we get some news about some product (usually toys) made in China that's found to be contaminated with some nasty chemical. And yet we do not ban all toys coming from China.

The FDA found traces of something allegedly nasty inside "one" cartridge from "one" china supplier. To be specific, a supplier that provides cartridges for the Njoy NPRO and SmokeEverywhere e-cigs. FDA proceeded to try to ban, Federal court said no. FDA appealed, federal court again said no. Now check this out, because the action was against Njoy and SmokeEverywhere, and the court deny it, now those 2 have federal court protection and can be imported freely. However, ALL other suppliers that were not covered in the request, do not have the "protection" and are being banned. In other words, the FDA is allowing imports of the brands proved to contain nasty stuff, while seizing ALL others.

That's the kind of thing why I don't like these regulatory bodies stepping in. Instead of looking after our health, they seem to be actively trying to screw us up. And if their argument is China's quality controls, then ban everything from China (so long Iphones) IMHO. And besides, any nasty stuff placed on e-cig juice would have to be nastier than the stuff already put into American made cigarettes before I could say we could ban Chinese e-cig juice while still selling Malboro.

By the way... my favorite E-Juice, Dekang Sam-Mint, is being sold in china @ $59.95 USD for a 1500ML bottle. With an average of 20 drops per ml, that would be 30,000 drops. A typical pack-a-day smoker will use around 10 drops a day of the stuff (I do). That means I can pay 60 bucks and get enough nicotine for 8.21 YEARS.

Doing some math, a pack-a-day smoker @ $5.50 USD per pack, will spend $16,500 USD to sustain his nicotine addiction for the same 8.21 years (3,000 days).

Now, a quick trip to expedia.com reveals that I can get a trip to china, for both me and my girlfriend, 7 days/6 nights, flight and hotel to Beijing for $2,600 USD. So even if the FDA seize my e-juice shipments, I can still fly to China myself, get a week-long vacation with girlfriend, buy centuries worth of e-juice and come back. And keep in mind I'm talking about Dekand, a 9001ISO certified company that sells to Europe and has been already tested by our own FDA (or the lung association, can't remember) and proven NOT to contain any nasty ingredients.

Stick it to the man!

Stop smoking or vaping and use your cigargeet money to buy a new bike! Did that 20-some years ago.

Ruben James,
The sure sign of an addict is the extreme way they justify their habit.

*Quite 15 years ago and have yet to find a more satisfying tasty habit.Nothing like a butt and coffee in the morning to start the day:thumb:

So does "vaping" rhyme with "taping", or "napping"? I am curious because it sounds goofy either way.

I don't think they should be banned, just regulated and routinely tested in some way. As far as the source goes, I think China is a great place to have low end products made. However, the reason we discover that their stuff is full of the latest poison is because we test them. If you don't put a test structure in place these tests don't occur, and stuff gets through. I think allowing stuff from the brands that have a negative test through and blocking other brands is also a bit silly. However, that isn't the FDA's fault, that is the fault of the court for not doing that the other way around. These regulating bodies aren't actively trying to screw you up, they're getting thwarted in their ability to prevent companies from putting antifreeze in your nicotine.

I should add that not everything made in China is crap. Cervelo frames come from China (Same factory as Scott I think). On the other hand, Walmart has stuff that comes from there. Both are bikes, both are made in the same country, but these two aren't equal. For you to say that banning everything from China due to the specifics of single product type is like me trying to revoke the citizenship of your kids and deport them because my fiancee had a lazy group partner with no brain who happened to be from Puerto Rico a couple years ago. If you don't think that's fair you should probably stop pulling in such black and white analogies.
One of the machine shops I work with is really REALLY good at what they do. By that I mean they can send stuff to be put strait in to a USAF jet without an external inspection because they're good enough at inspecting things themselves, and have the right certifications. Guess what, they still send stuff out to be externally validated and actively invite gov. auditors even though it isn't required of them. Why? Regular testing tells you where your product quality is so that you don't have to guess and pray.
Also, not that I think they will or should, but if the FDA bans your stuff, you going to China and importing it yourself is probably illegal too.

I would be OK with some regulation. I'm totally against selling the stuff to minors, even if it is the 0% nicotine variety. And labels, this stuff needs labels. Specially some warnings about the transdermal qualities of the liquid...

So far (keep in mind I'm fairly new) all suppliers I've deal with have verified my age, provided child prof bottles and placed adequate warnings. But they are doing so voluntary, not because it's actual law. Is does makes sense tho, if you are making a living out of this, do not give anybody a reason to take you down. Even if is not law, if you sell nicotine to my kids I can and will sue you.

Back to my own experience with the technology... now that my taste buds are back, tobacco flavored e-liquid tastes awful. I am moving away from both tobacco & menthol flavored liquids and ATM I'm vaping some Vanilla. I'm also doing an attempt to lower my total nicotine intake. I was vaping @ 26mg strength (or 2.6% nic) and now I'm trying 24mg. I thought I might end up compensating by vaping more often. But I'm carefully keeping logs and I'm vaping the same amounts @ 24mg as I was @ 26mg. It is a lot more tolerable to step down on gradual steps, slowly. My numerous attempts at this with the nicotine patches usually failed when stepping down from the "high patch" (21mg) to the "medium patch" (14mg). The change is just way to big, cravings overcome my weak mind and back to newports I go. Small 2mg steps are easier. Too bad Nicoderm doesn't provide this option... Too bad many smokers can't afford Nicoderm. Too bad Nicoderm highest option only accommodates 10 cigs a day smokers.

Now, about the Antifreeze BS... I'll let this guy explain it (skip to 4:35 if you want just the antifreeze but the whole video is very informative):


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u16Yjz5dEX8

DEG... antifreeze compound, used to dry tobacco leaves before they crush them and pack them into regular cigarettes...

http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn53/RubenX_Longwood/E-Cigs/QWPPMW2g-lzpGJ8VsKILCf2c9ByBTBm5-LgXEGY-mxoIQGXy564m3dTy_UoNDCHoP0QRd0bT5RoUFG7CauRIimslS5ovo43_U8noenOyP-GgRDFjxJqhMx8T5okAyIhQdt7poNBd6g.jpg

Hmmm...I wonder how well that would work with StrictlyEJuice's high nicotine unflavored fluid...

No, you need a neti-pot to cure your cold. That way you can directly flush the germs out with beer.

Based on my last experience with not noticing the water in my neti pot was a bit too cold, I'm going to avoid any well-chilled beer, or anything carbonated for that matter.

I think it's time to do some research into the actual effects of nicotine, past the addictive qualities.

Research is there. I could quote/link pages of them, from American Universities, hospitals and other organizations. But in the end, anything is big enough amounts will kill you, even water.

I haven't bought any new gizmos/liquids yet so I have nothing new to report except some of my own e-research:

Nicotine is trans-dermal and liquid. When nicotine patches are manufactured, they add other things to make it more like a glue and it gets less trans-dermal. Polyethylene Glycol is added to make it more trans-dermal again.

On a PV (Personal Vaporizer) the nicotine is in its liquid form so it's already trans-dermal. But PG is added to make the liquid "atomizable". Thing is, is VERY transdermal. You can rub some of the liquid on your hands and nicotine cravings go away, just like if you were using a patch.

Because of this trans-dermal properties. It is not necessary to inhale the vapor all the way to your lungs. You can hold it in your mouth and puff it out. You get less nic-hit but you get it. Many people who are concerned about their lungs vape this way.

However, I've seen some studies where they measured the nicotine levels on the stuff you puff out. It was almost zero, when inhaling all the way. Not sure how that will change if you just hold it in the mouth and puff it out. Anyway, I don't vape near anybody (unless you are vaping as well).

That"s it......Eurika!

I will invent a nicotine suppository to help cure these smokers.No tools,gadjets,batteries,just a firm set of for-fingers.Sit,smile,and enjoy.
What say ya Rube,ready to be smoke free?

That"s it......Eurika!

I will invent a nicotine suppository to help cure these smokers.No tools,gadjets,batteries,just a firm set of for-fingers.Sit,smile,and enjoy.
What say ya Rube,ready to be smoke free?

Already being studied (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2533102/) by our lovely government.

I'll pass.