Folding Bikes - Carbon Belt Drive Bike Friday Tikit...

This new version of the Bike Friday Tikit goes on sale Monday...:thumb:

http://thelazyrando.wordpress.com/2011/01/29/carbon-belt-tikit-is-ready-to-roll/

very sweet ..... with the 60 front sprocket and the 11 speed they get a very liveable gear ratio as well. Nice
(3200 buckaroos aint no slouch either though ...lol )

thor

Better than $500 just in the belt and 2 cogs..

Wow. That just might be the perfect folder.

Hopefully this means my non belt drive alfine 11 tikit is on its way! Many dealers couldnt get the igh parts, bf being one of them.

Intriguing....

But, I must confess that I question if a belt drive is really worth a $1,500 premium over chain drive...

It will be cool to see this bike in person...I'm headed home through BF HQ to collect my repainted Tikit so if there is a carbon belted beast available to test ride I'll give it a try...:love:

Wow... Season tikit 2595.
11 Alfine tikit 3292, (both belt drive).
Only difference I see is the hub (alfine 11 vs 8)
and... $700 price difference?
IF (that is big if) I was going to buy it, I would just buy season tikit, get afline 11 on side with $700 remaining, take out original alfine 8, sell it and pocket difference.
Does anyone know where BF felt it justified to charge extra $300-400 when there is no extra labor it could have taken to do so? Or is it just because someone probably is willing to pay kind of things?

Does anyone know where BF felt it justified to charge extra $300-400 when there is no extra labor it could have taken to do so? Or is it just because someone probably is willing to pay kind of things?

Is there other upgraded parts, between the two models, perhaps? Otherwise, if the Alfine 11 hub has been in such demand that it's selling out and hard to come by, they can certainly charge a premium for it. Like when people were paying MSRP+ for a Prius.

Wow... Season tikit 2595.
11 Alfine tikit 3292, (both belt drive).
Only difference I see is the hub (alfine 11 vs 8)
and... $700 price difference?
IF (that is big if) I was going to buy it, I would just buy season tikit, get afline 11 on side with $700 remaining, take out original alfine 8, sell it and pocket difference.
Does anyone know where BF felt it justified to charge extra $300-400 when there is no extra labor it could have taken to do so? Or is it just because someone probably is willing to pay kind of things?

If you are really interested in an answer call and ask BF since they are the only ones who could provide it. We have no idea what the spec differences might be.

Let's face it Alfine 11 and carbon belt is all bleeding edge at this point and it's going to cost a bunch more. 3yrs from now not so much. If saving $$ is important stick with a stock Tikit and enjoy...:love:

I would like to have a pocket llama with a belt!!!!

Gdlerner I suspect if you wrote the check BF would make one for you. They are a custom bike company after all. They have an 800 number to call and ask. Roger

One thing that adds to the price of this new model is the use of Phil Woods hubs and cogs.. that a 22t is available through P/W (as opposed to the standard 24t from Carbon Drive) allows for a more attractive overall drivetrain ratio on the 349 platform.

http://www.philwood.com/products/bdrive/bdcogs.php

You know what also "looks very sweet for the all weather commuter who wants zero hassle with maintenance"?
188178188179
It might not be pretty, but it works.

Been riding about 150 miles a week on this bike lately and I actually wish the chain would just die already before I lose the $10 replacement chain I bought on sale 2 years ago.

At $3000 the Carbon belt drive tikit would have to last generations before becoming a worthwhile investment. As someone who recently purchased a $1300 frame, I know that some things are worth it, but this definitely ain't it.

You know what also "looks very sweet for the all weather commuter who wants zero hassle with maintenance"?
188178188179
It might not be pretty, but it works.

Been riding about 150 miles a week on this bike lately and I actually wish the chain would just die already before I lose the $10 replacement chain I bought on sale 2 years ago.

At $3000 the Carbon belt drive tikit would have to last generations before becoming a worthwhile investment. As someone who recently purchased a $1300 frame, I know that some things are worth it, but this definitely ain't it.

Buying a carbon belt at this point in their implementation is not going to be cheap. That's just the reality of early adoption. If you can wait a few years the price will come down, but not everyone wants to wait.

I would check with BF, but I suspect any Tikit with modular dropouts should be able to accept a carbon belt retrofit down the road....so you could buy a Season Tikit with Alfine 8 and chain then later make it into a carbon belt Tikit when the cost drops or you simply decide to spend more $$.

Chainring on outside of frame, hub cog on the opposite side, inside
so all belt drive frames need a split in the rear triangle to pass the belt thru.

But Bike Fridays as their rear extremity is dis mount able , It can be sent back to them
and modified without shipping the whole bike,
If .. you are equipped to do the rest of the conversion work.
New?
Order the bike with the belt ready bolt together opening in the seatstay,
if you plan to go for the belt drive, later .. regular IG HUB frame will not have the split connection, so you will have to add that upgrade spec to your order.

Buying a carbon belt at this point in their implementation is not going to be cheap. That's just the reality of early adoption. If you can wait a few years the price will come down, but not everyone wants to wait.

I would check with BF, but I suspect any Tikit with modular dropouts should be able to accept a carbon belt retrofit down the road....so you could buy a Season Tikit with Alfine 8 and chain then later make it into a carbon belt Tikit when the cost drops or you simply decide to spend more $$.

Yeah, but the question is why would I want a carbon belt when a rusty old chain works just fine? Disadvantages of the belt drive are:
-Unforgiving driveline.
-Can't split, add, or remove links.
-Nonstandard parts (cogs etc).

So unless there are major pros to outweigh these cons then it would have to cost less than the standard roller chain before being worthy of consideration. So what are the advantages?:
-It's lighter...ok not enough for me when I could save more weight spending my money on a carbon seatpost.
-It doesn't rust when unoiled...ok is it more efficient than a rusty unoiled chain? are the wear particles cleaner than rust particles? if not then this isn't an advantage.
-Does it last longer than a chain? All else equal I'll pay twice as much for a belt ($20 vs $10) if it lasts twice as long, but somehow I doubt this is the case.

this is exactly the same thing with the car's timing belt. i remember in the old days they used chain and they last forever. now they used belt and you have to change it every 70-90,000 miles. what's the advantage of belt over a chain timing belt - it's quiet and clean. i'd rather have a noisy engine than deal with the cost of changing the timing belt every now and then. hope it's not the same with this bike. it still is an unproven technology compare to chain belt. i'd rather have the chain and pocket the extra money. and you're right - i didn't think about the split frame to install the belt drive.

Nobody needs a belt drive bike because a chain doesn't work. In the same way nobody needs an IGH, but there are certainly applications where they rock. If you can't see the point of a belt drive bike you won't buy one and life will go on...some folks will see that a belt will make their lives better and they have the $$ for such a bike so they'll buy one and enjoy it a bunch.

It's the same thing with titanium or carbon fibre bikes...speciality solutions that some people love and others go huh?

+1 to vik's comments

a 5000 dlr bike which sits in the garage and never gets used is stupid as stupid goes.... a 50 dlr secind hand U frame folder which does get used and makes the owner happy is " WORTH " a million bucks more.....
A belt drive is not necessary .... nor are Porsche or Lambos or whatever .... but they are nice and if a high profile bike like this gets somebody to enjoy the lifestyle of being in the fold ...its all worth it again.

:-)
thor
p.s. There is something smooth and silent and silky about the gates drivetrain. I thouroughly enjoyed my Mu P XL with the gates drive.
( before I sold it )
but I have another Mu sitting there and the bits and pieces for a conversion in hand.. so I will built another one .... even if the gear ratio on the Mu with the 8 speed Nexus hub is somewhat too low ...( you "loose" 3 gears and dont have a 30 miles per hour top speed no more, unless yoiu can spin like a rocketmachine )

Nobody needs a belt drive bike because a chain doesn't work. In the same way nobody needs an IGH, but there are certainly applications where they rock. If you can't see the point of a belt drive bike you won't buy one and life will go on...some folks will see that a belt will make their lives better and they have the $$ for such a bike so they'll buy one and enjoy it a bunch.

It's the same thing with titanium or carbon fibre bikes...speciality solutions that some people love and others go huh?

I think some people just enjoy spending more money in order to distinguish themselves from the filthy poor. Isn't it just wonderful how much better it can make a person's life to be able to give such a subtle display of enmity towards his fellow man? Ah, yes, what is life without the small pleasures like this? :innocent:

I think some people just enjoy spending more money in order to distinguish themselves from the filthy poor. Isn't it just wonderful how much better it can make a person's life to be able to give such a subtle display of enmity towards his fellow man? Ah, yes, what is life without the small pleasures like this? :innocent:

It may shock you to know, Chucky, that I make my bike purchases without any regard whatsoever to how it might impact your delicate sensibilities.

It may shock you to know, Chucky, that I make my bike purchases without any regard whatsoever to how it might impact your delicate sensibilities.

It doesn't shock me at all as you also mentioned earlier in this thread how you considered the value of this particular design. I was referring to those who might suggest some people will just want it, regardless of whether or not it is better than (or even as good as) existing designs...presumably because it gives them an excuse to flaunt their (obviously undeserved) excess.

As to the delicacy of sensibilities, I don't concern myself with that and neither would I expect it of anyone else.

Enjoy your bikes.

lets be sure.... we are all on the same page here ...lol

I rather have somebody spend 500 bucks on titanium bits then on the last release of a cell phone.... or spend 300 dlr more to get the same dam deal in white versus black ....
or spend hundred thousands on some crazy car... lol

much better to leave the money in the industry as that will eventually help everybody of us who want affordable FUN transportation.....

thor

My innocuous question turned into something else I see...
What I was saying was not the carbon drive belt but why did alfine 11 has $700 premium over alfine 8 of carbon drive version which only difference would have be shifter and actual hub. Considering component price difference between alfine 11 and 8 i would imagine actual cost difference should have been more in $200-300 range. I was wondering why there is that extra $400-500 tag coming from... (other than it's top of line season tikit...)
If you look at pricing, it's not too far off from Rohloff with this extra added at all.

Maybe old fashioned Haggling over the price when you order one
will bring the hub substitution up charge back down
to an acceptable cost,
they want to sell bikes , maybe there can be accommodation reached between you.

the 11 + the belt drive is significant in parts cost.
it's an early adoption in both cases ..

My innocuous question turned into something else I see...
What I was saying was not the carbon drive belt but why did alfine 11 has $700 premium over alfine 8 of carbon drive version which only difference would have be shifter and actual hub. Considering component price difference between alfine 11 and 8 i would imagine actual cost difference should have been more in $200-300 range. I was wondering why there is that extra $400-500 tag coming from... (other than it's top of line season tikit...)
If you look at pricing, it's not too far off from Rohloff with this extra added at all.

Unless there are more differences between the 8 and 11 spd IGH than just the hub...Bike Friday would be able to answer your question, but nobody here can since the model is too new and nobody has one yet.

Interestingly the new Moulton TSR2 comes with an option of Belt or Chain drive at the same cost.

http://www.moultonbicycles.co.uk/models/TSR2.html

I have one. I have been told that the belt is good for 70K miles. I guess time will tell us if that is correct. All I know is that when I split it apart, carry it or put it in my car there is no problem with oily chains :D

Regards

Jerry

I guess time will tell us if that is correct. All I know is that when I split it apart, carry it or put it in my car there is no problem with oily chains :D

Regards

Jerry

Hey Jerry - how dirty does the belt get? Can you manipulate it with your fingers and come away clean?

I assume the cog and ring are plastic or composite...do you ride in the rain?...any wear on these components or is the 70K service life take into account all the drivetrain parts?

Hey Jerry - how dirty does the belt get? Can you manipulate it with your fingers and come away clean?

I assume the cog and ring are plastic or composite...do you ride in the rain?...any wear on these components or is the 70K service life take into account all the drivetrain parts?

Vik,

Yes I do ride it in the rain though I have not done a lot of milage on it yet. I will swap from my Brompton to the TSR2 for daily commutes in spring, putting some Kojaks on it to make it even lighter and nippier..

The bike is actually quite dirty and I rubbed my hand on the belt. Apart from a little dirt/mud dust it left no stains on my hand.

I am not sure about the main belt drive and rear sprocket. I guess they will wear though I am not sure at what rate or if the belt will wear first.

Regards

Jerry

Interestingly enough, belt-drive (and shaft drive) bikes have existed for decades in Japan, and are not significantly any different in price than chain drive bikes. I used to ride a belt-driven Maruishi mamachari bike which cost all of $200 brand new.

For those who are curious, the Maruishi bike had an aluminum sprocket in the rear. Operation was silent and maintenance free, replacement belts were cheap and could be installed in less time than it takes to change a tube. But I rode mine daily for two years, and there wad no apparent wear to the belt or sprockets.

The belt-drive was very clean, but not so great a feature that I would spend more than $50 more to get a belt-drive over a chain.

Interestingly enough, belt-drive (and shaft drive) bikes have existed for decades in Japan, and are not significantly any different in price than chain drive bikes. I used to ride a belt-driven Maruishi mamachari bike which cost all of $200 brand new.

Stridas have belt drive too. But I'm guessing that there must be other improvements with the Gates belt drive.

Note, I'm not making an argument that the Gates drive is worth the price.

Exactly why I sprung for the tikit w/ alfine 11 but passed on the belt drive option. I called green gear yesterday and they have received the hubs. Hopefully only a few more weeks!

My British Racing Green Alfine 11 Tikit w/ Hyperfold has left the building! I received the shipping notification last night and it is estimated to arrive around February 25th! Here's hoping the Maryland weather doesn't get too funky so I can take it for a decent ride...

My British Racing Green Alfine 11 Tikit w/ Hyperfold has left the building! I received the shipping notification last night and it is estimated to arrive around February 25th! Here's hoping the Maryland weather doesn't get too funky so I can take it for a decent ride...

Oh ya! Sweet..do not make us wait too long for bike porn!...:thumb:;):love: