Classic & Vintage - Hi! I'm Jake! I could use some help.

Wow. First, what an informative forum! I have spent the better part of a week reading up on as much as I can before I make this post. Truth is, I'm at the point where I could really use some experienced advice.

Feel free to skip this part:
My wife and I live in hilly Utah going to school and with spring approaching, we've been seriously considering cycling. We are both huge athletes (namely soccer) and think this could be a fun activity to do together and stay in shape. Last summer was spent longboarding (amazing in the mountains btw), but after 4 months out on a broken leg, I'm ready for something less hazardous to my well-being.

I want to buy/tune up two bikes by May (one for me, one for her). My budget is around $200 per bike. My plan is to being visiting pawn shops, checking yard sales, keeping an eye on my local craigslist/ksl.com (local thing), and find something older. Problem is, I'm not sure what to look for. I think, with mountainous terrain we would prefer gears but I'm not ruling fixed gear bicycles out at this point.

So...

(1) What are the better frames to look for? (top 5?)
(2) What are the better components to look for?
(3) What are sure signs to steer clear from?
(4) Are my budget expectations reasonable?

I've found a wealth of good info on how to maintain the bikes and how to upgrade, but I have struggled to pinpoint what are the best bikes to look for in the first place and how to spot a good deal. Any help would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks again and I look forward to learning more from this community!

--Jake

I went to ebay and found this one in seconds - $200 buy it now price.

http://i.ebayimg.com/18/!CEWUVmwCGk~$(KGrHqQOKnEEz2TZ,fVUBNRjEFcR3!~~_3.JPG

http://cgi.ebay.com/54cm-Vintage-Univega-road-bike-12-speed-bicycle-rebuilt_W0QQitemZ280623484034QQcategoryZ98084QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp4340.m263QQ_trkparmsZalgo%3DSI C%26its%3DI%252BC%26itu%3DUCI%252BIA%252BUA%252BFICS%252BUFI%26otn%3D10%26pmod%3D350430856987%26ps%3 D63%26clkid%3D6773999325355166831

What sizes do you need?

I've seen Univega tossed around a few times, what a great looking bike! I really like it! Thank you!

As for sizing, I am 6'1" with 32-34" pant leg (need to do more accurate measuring before getting more serious about buying) so I understood I am somewhere between 57cm and 60cm.

My wife is 5'8" or so and I don't know exactly what size she'd need.

Thanks for the quick response!

Hi Jake -

Welcome to C&V.

I would refer you to My Ten Speeds (http://www.mytenspeeds.com/My_TenSpeeds_1/) - a website dedicated to answering these questions from people like you, by one of our own C&V members.

Welcome to the interest of vintage bicycles. I publish a website that helps people new to the interest accelerate their opportunity to learn about the basics, and avoid making costly purchase/build decisions. Feel free to visit MY "TEN SPEEDS" (http://www.mytenspeeds.com/My_TenSpeeds_1/) - its free.

Most, if not all of your questions are address in those pages. I hope this is a help.

Many of us have picked up fabulous bikes for under $200, and you can too. The problem is, you can't just go out and expect to find the fabulous bike you want for under $200 this weekend. The really good deals are opportunities that turn up unexpectedly. So, though your specific questions are good, we can hardly advise you on specifics. I would suggest you chose, approximately, what kind of vintage you're looking for (Im guessing late 70's to early 90's would suit you) and educate yourself on the better components of that period.

The reason I say this is, for example, on the subject of cranks: most people would tell you to avoid cottered steel cranks. This is only good advice if you're looking for a racing bike made after the early 70's.

A lot of people find ads for bikes on Craigslist and then post the listings here requesting our advice and comments. This gets a lot of good specific advice, but if you do this you are likely to let the best opportunities slip through your fingers.

Hello Jake, and welcome to the forums. I think one of the first things you need to do is figure out what type of bikes you want. do you want road bikes, skinnyish tires and drop style handle bars? ahybrid sort of an inbetween road and mountain bike or a full on mountain bike (although I must state I am not a huge suspension fan especially in the rear.)

where do you plan on riding? it may be a good idea to visit a shop and explore the different offerings.

Just a note...for not too much more than $200 per bike you can get a fully working, fairly lightweight modern thing and not have to be arsed with all the maintenance and tool buying and such. In short you can more easily avoid getting sucked in like the rest of us enablers.

That said...if you think Vintage bikes are cooler and the idea of working on them appeals to you or at least doesn't turn you off...go for it!

That Univega is OK, but its not a 200 dollar bike. Its a 200 dollar bike with an 85 dollar shipping charge. If your Budget was 285 I think you might be able to get something nicer.

@the OP: whatever you do, buy a complete bike. A cheap frame might seem like a deal but you'll spend $$$ building it up.

Excellent advice from all above.

One thing you might want to consider is what type of bike you prefer from what origin.
For example, over the years I have realized that I have developed a strong liking to English/British
makes. To me they seem to be less "racy" and more "gentlemanly". I like Italian bikes but I don't
really care for owning one as they seem a bit too serious for my taste. I feel Italian bikes almost require
proper cycling attire like spandex and jerseys. I love French bikes. French bikes have lots of style but
require a bit more knowledge and patience due to their odd standards. Japanese bikes are nice too
and are great value for the money.

Here is the thing.... GET OUT AND RIDE...

Any old or new bike will do as long as its safe... I have ridden with guys riding a solid crank Huffy that were having just as much fun as I was... There is a guy down the street that can't ride anymore but has a blast just putting together old bikes for the local kids...

Maybe a cheap Walmart special is all you need for now, and then as you tinker and play you may find you are a steel, aluminum, or carbon guy - Who knows - Maybe a C&V aficionado...

What I am saying here is welcome to the forum - Have fun - Don't be afraid of starting out with some off the shelf bikes that you may sell or give away after you get into it...

And please keep us posted...

On the medical side I have lost count of how many older bike riders started off in Soccer...

I've seen Univega tossed around a few times, what a great looking bike! I really like it! Thank you!

As for sizing, I am 6'1" with 32-34" pant leg (need to do more accurate measuring before getting more serious about buying) so I understood I am somewhere between 57cm and 60cm.

My wife is 5'8" or so and I don't know exactly what size she'd need.

Thanks for the quick response!


If you go with a traditional steel frame bike, I would put you at 60cm minimum for comfort and you may be able to go larger than that. For comfort get the biggest frame you can still straddle comfortably. dont ask me how i know... :)

also, as far as ebay bikes go, try to find something you can go pick up close by, thats always better than a shipping charge and possible damage. And don't forget craigslist! Good Luck!!

andy

Wow! You guys are awesome!!! Thanks for the replies!!


I would refer you to My Ten Speeds - a website dedicated to answering these questions from people like you, by one of our own C&V members.


I publish a website that helps people new to the interest accelerate their opportunity to learn about the basics, and avoid making costly purchase/build decisions. Feel free to visit MY "TEN SPEEDS" - its free.

Heading straight over there right now! Thanks for the tip!


Many of us have picked up fabulous bikes for under $200, and you can too. The problem is, you can't just go out and expect to find the fabulous bike you want for under $200 this weekend.

I definitely understand that. That's one of the main reasons I have begun my serious research into different bicycles at the turn of the new year instead of around May. I want that time to make a good decision.


I think one of the first things you need to do is figure out what type of bikes you want.


That said...if you think Vintage bikes are cooler and the idea of working on them appeals to you or at least doesn't turn you off...go for it!


One thing you might want to consider is what type of bike you prefer from what origin.


Maybe a cheap Walmart special is all you need for now, and then as you tinker and play you may find you are a steel, aluminum, or carbon guy - Who knows - Maybe a C&V aficionado...

From what I've read, I think I do want a mid-70's to early-90's Italian or Japanese road bike with rather aggressive frame geometry and bullhorn handlebars. I've owned plenty of mountain bikes (just had one stolen from my complex in November actually!) and LOVE to ride. I've done trail rides and 50 miler scouting trips, etc. but around here all the best mountain rides are paved and FAST so I think this would be the natural transition time for me into something more quick and nimble.

AND I can't afford to drop $1,000+ so I'm willing to go old school and wrench a bit to have a great compromise.


What I am saying here is welcome to the forum - Have fun - Don't be afraid of starting out with some off the shelf bikes that you may sell or give away after you get into it...

And please keep us posted...

Thanks! As I find new information and have questions I will definitely be posting here because of this incredibly positive response!

^^Excellent, sounds like you know what you're looking for, then. A few remarks:


--As a general rule, you're better off buying a bike that hasn't been "upgraded," because many people can't tell an upgrade from a downgrade. I'm talking about bullhorn handlebars here. I don't mean they're bad; I've never used 'em, so cannot comment on that. But classic / vintage bikes didn't come with them. Any bike that has them is either not classic/vintage, or has been "upgraded" (and very likely downgraded). So when you buy your bike, get one with drop bars. Then, if you want to change them to bullhorn bars, that's your call (but I recommend you get to know it as is, first).

--at the $200 price point, you are sure to find a good Japanese bike, less likely to find a good Italian one (but then again, you might). I wouldn't worry too much about place of origin, though; local / national traditions in bicycle design disappeared over time. They were already declining by the 60's and had pretty much disappeared by the mid 70's. If you want a good deal, don't set limitations on what you're looking for.

--Aggressive geometry follows the above. While certain brands (early 80's Trek, for example) offered a range of specific geometric options (racing, sport touring, fully loaded touring) the trend has been for more aggressive geometry. Any road bike will be more aggressive than your MTB, and among road bikes the differences will be subtle: we're talking about a degree or two difference. At your price point, I wouldn't sweat it.

A decent quality, $200 steel-framed bike from the era you mentioned will almost certainly be Japanese or Taiwanese in origin. If it is European, it will most likely be a Raleigh.

Regarding frame size, you have to straddle the bike to know if it fits. There are subtle variations in fit for a given frame size due to bottom bracket height. You should be able to stand over it without having it grind into your crotch or lift a leg. I am your height. My inseam measures 34" from the floor to the crotch. I am able to comfortably straddle a 58 cm frame with 700C wheels. 60 cm is too large.

I posted the Univega ad above to point you towards ebay (and because it was a nice bike). At ebay, be careful of the shipping charges. Your local Craigslist is also a good place to check because, well, they are local bikes and you can go see them befoire you buy.

Don't waste too much time looking for the perfect bike or you will regret passing on bikes that are more than good enough.

Hi Jake,

I took a look at the Salt lake City Craigslist, didn't see much too offer, mainly mountain bikes. What did catch my eye was an ad for a Bike Swap/Expo at Utah State Fairpark coming up on March 5th. I have no idea where that is in relation to your locale and what they exactly have to offer but it might be a good idea for you and the wife to go. It could quite possibly give you an opportunity to look over different bikes and sizes to get a feel of what size is a good fit for you and your lady. Also a chance to make some contacts with local C&Vers that might help you in your quest.

Bike Expo/Swap (http://saltlakecity.craigslist.org/bik/2191883048.html)

note: Being in SoCal, I am not affiliated with this group in anyway, just passing along some possibly helpful info.

I am your height. My inseam measures 34" from the floor to the crotch. I am able to comfortably straddle a 58 cm frame with 700C wheels. 60 cm is too large.

I'm barely 6'1", but have a cycling inseam of about 35" (per the instructions at rivbike (http://www.rivbike.com/article/bike_fit/pbh_and_how_to_measure_it)) and have no issues on at least one 25"/63.5cm frame** (http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php/710946-Snow%21%21%21), so it's important to measure.

The length of the top tube is arguably more important, as you'll be spending a lot more time riding and reaching for the handle bars than dismounting and standing over a bike.

** Bottom bracket height (clearance underneath the cranks), seat tube angle, etc, change overall top tube height.

just for reference, here's my Cilo with bullhorns:
http://velospace.org/files/Cilo_Bike_xx3.jpg

I'm talking about bullhorn handlebars here. I don't mean they're bad; I've never used 'em, so cannot comment on that. But classic / vintage bikes didn't come with them. Any bike that has them is either not classic/vintage, or has been "upgraded" (and very likely downgraded). So when you buy your bike, get one with drop bars. Then, if you want to change them to bullhorn bars, that's your call (but I recommend you get to know it as is, first).

Wouldn't be surprised if the OP was talking about drop bars, which you occasionally see referred to as "ram's horn" bars.

You guys are so AWESOME! Since the last barrage of posts, I've spent my free time perusing the pages of mytenspeeds.com. What a resource!!! I've about read everything there is to read on that website (sans the find stories for the different countries of origin) and feel much more educated now.

Many of my preconceived ideas about what I liked have broadened while a few have narrowed, and all this continuous input is a real life-saver. Thanks again!


As a general rule, you're better off buying a bike that hasn't been "upgraded," because many people can't tell an upgrade from a downgrade.

I wouldn't worry too much about place of origin, though; local / national traditions in bicycle design disappeared over time.

Aggressive geometry follows the above.


just for reference, here's my Cilo with bullhorns

Yup, I totally misspoke when I said "bullhorn." From my shallow reading thus far I had interpreted the drop handlebars as bullhorns. While they look functional, I prefer the look of the dropped bars.


Don't waste too much time looking for the perfect bike or you will regret passing on bikes that are more than good enough.

Certainly not looking for perfection here (if I was I'd better have a larger budget! haha) but I've made enough rushed decisions in my life where my emotions outweighed my logical considerations that I'm trying to inform myself fully before investing.


What did catch my eye was an ad for a Bike Swap/Expo at Utah State Fairpark coming up on March 5th.

I saw that as well! Also, Craigslist is very sparse here in Utah (I grew up just outside the Bay Area in Northern CA) because of the prevalent ksl.com classifieds that is used around here. Don't know why they use it, but that's where I spend most of my time for various other hobbies.


The length of the top tube is arguably more important, as you'll be spending a lot more time riding and reaching for the handle bars than dismounting and standing over a bike.

From what I've read, I totally agree. I'll bring a tape measure with me as I begin my search.

Wouldn't be surprised if the OP was talking about drop bars, which you occasionally see referred to as "ram's horn" bars.
Nailed it. Whoops!

WOW I was just looking over CL for Provo and SLC, looks like slim pickins (not the actor) for old road bikes. might be better off with an MTB with slicks for a few months.

You're definitely going to want gears.

Do you have the occasion to travel to neighboring states? If so, checking Craigslist in cities in those areas before you travel might open up some more opportunities. You might also get lucky at that swap coming up.

+1 Forget Italian bikes, won't fit in that budget, unless you get extremely lucky. The more aggressively you look, the better you will do. I would start AS SOON as you dial in your size. I would work on that first.

You guys are extremely helpful and a goldmine of information for noobs like us. The responses on this thread further my belief that this is the best (and most good natured) resource on the net for C+V help. I only wish I'd discovered mytenspeeds sooner! (I'm also posting because I want to follow this thread and see what bike soccerwuedo gets)

As far as very basic advice:

1. Don't buy anything dented or dinged. Make sure the fork is not bent and the wheels aren't ruined. If you don't know how to look for warning signs, learn before heading out.

2. Pay attention to materials. Steel-framed bikes come in a variety of makes and types. The top European frames of the 70's-90's were constructed from either Columbus or Reynolds (531 or similar) tubing. Older American-made Treks and Schwinns also made use of Columbus and Reynolds 531, and they're highly sought-after. Japanese bikes of the 70's and 80's used several types of tubing, the most prominent being Tange. Once you're past type of tubing, look for double or triple butted tubing -- steer away from 'straight gauge.'

3. More gears does not equal a better bike. I'd rather have a 10 speed with excellent performance and crisp shifting than an 18 or 21 speed bike with lackluster derailleur peformance.

4. When you go out to check a bike, trust your B.S.-meter. Craigslist sellers will lie to you or just give you completely incorrect information which they will swear to. I once had a guy tell me how he could date his Bianchi and identify its components based on the markings on the bar tape.

My 2 cents: I'd recommend you start your search with either (a) an older Trek, or (b) one of the many Japanese brands that are often overlooked by 'European-name' bike hunters (Centurion, Nishiki, Miyata, Bridgestone, and Univega all made some great bikes).

Whatever you do, don't get stuck on something that is big on look or name and low on performance. Just because something is a Peugeot and French doesn't mean it's better than an American-made Trek or Schwinn, or a Japanese Miyata or Bridgestone.

WOW I was just looking over CL for Provo and SLC, looks like slim pickins (not the actor) for old road bikes.

I know, right? My current plan comes straight from the playbook of Mr. Randyjawa; I'll be making some flyers and making the rounds in some older and wealthier neighborhoods to try my hand at scoring a garaged golden nugget! Haha!


You're definitely going to want gears.

I agree 200%. Not a typo.


Forget Italian bikes, won't fit in that budget, unless you get extremely lucky. The more aggressively you look, the better you will do. I would start AS SOON as you dial in your size. I would work on that first.

I was just PM'ed an amazing Google document finely detailing all the various trim levels and offerings of all kinds of manufacturers of Vintage road bikes, so I plan on remembering as many as possible and hitting the pavement until I find a good deal. If bikes are free or dirt cheap, I'll probably amass a large group (of potentially non-fitting bikes) then build one or two bikes out of the best combo and possibly sell the remainders. I have two sisters and quite a few friends who I'd bet would be anxious to tag along for rides once my wife and I get going, so maybe having stuff ready for them could be fun to!

I agree tho, gotta get fit dialed in. I've seen the measuring tests, I just need to do it.


You guys are extremely helpful and a goldmine of information for noobs like us. The responses on this thread further my belief that this is the best (and most good natured) resource on the net for C+V help. I only wish I'd discovered mytenspeeds sooner! (I'm also posting because I want to follow this thread and see what bike soccerwuedo gets)

Coming from a Honda forum background, this is the most helpful and useful web-based forum I've ever seen.


As far as very basic advice:

I didn't quote the whole thing just for the sake of space, but great advice. I really appreciate you typing that out for me! A lot of that information is stuff I've stumbled across and conclusions I had drawn myself but I couldn't agree more! Thanks again!

So yes, current plan is to drop flyers into mailboxes and check out pawn shops til the bike swap. If nothing turns up once spring comes around, I'll be out to garage sales.

Looking for one awesome 60cm road bike (far as I can tell as of now) and a ladies bike for the Mrs. I'll get her measurements asap. Thanks again for all the help!

Welcome to the site and glad you are considering a vintage or classic bike as you enter the world of road bikes. You must watch though it can become quite addicting and stopping at one bike might be impossible. Watch putting any kind of fliers into mailboxes as it is against the law to do so without postage, There was just a small company around here that was just starting out that got hit with a pretty big fine for doing so. Just put them in their door or between the red flag and the mailbox.
Glenn

If bikes are free or dirt cheap, I'll probably amass a large group (of potentially non-fitting bikes) then build one or two bikes out of the best combo and possibly sell the remainders.


:eek:
I sense there will be need of an intervention in your future if you pursue this path.



Thankfully, you will not find it here. :lol:

As far as very basic advice:

1. Don't buy anything dented or dinged. Make sure the fork is not bent and the wheels aren't ruined. If you don't know how to look for warning signs, learn before heading out.

2. Pay attention to materials. Steel-framed bikes come in a variety of makes and types. The top European frames of the 70's-90's were constructed from either Columbus or Reynolds (531 or similar) tubing. Older American-made Treks and Schwinns also made use of Columbus and Reynolds 531, and they're highly sought-after. Japanese bikes of the 70's and 80's used several types of tubing, the most prominent being Tange. Once you're past type of tubing, look for double or triple butted tubing -- steer away from 'straight gauge.'

3. More gears does not equal a better bike. I'd rather have a 10 speed with excellent performance and crisp shifting than an 18 or 21 speed bike with lackluster derailleur peformance.

4. When you go out to check a bike, trust your B.S.-meter. Craigslist sellers will lie to you or just give you completely incorrect information which they will swear to. I once had a guy tell me how he could date his Bianchi and identify its components based on the markings on the bar tape.

My 2 cents: I'd recommend you start your search with either (a) an older Trek, or (b) one of the many Japanese brands that are often overlooked by 'European-name' bike hunters (Centurion, Nishiki, Miyata, Bridgestone, and Univega all made some great bikes).

Whatever you do, don't get stuck on something that is big on look or name and low on performance. Just because something is a Peugeot and French doesn't mean it's better than an American-made Trek or Schwinn, or a Japanese Miyata or Bridgestone.

Good advice, but I'm going to add to it, and temper it a bit.

Make sure the stem and seat post move before buying. Seat post is simple to test. Might need a rubber mallet and a rag to check the stem.

With regard to straight gauge tubing - true, butted is more desirable, but there's nothing wrong with straight gauge. Reynolds, Tange, Columbus, Ishiwata, True Temper and a couple others made some nice riding bikes with straight gauge tubing. I think a better indicator is seat post size on a straight gauge frame. Bigger is generally better.

Good advice, but I'm going to add to it, and temper it a bit.

Make sure the stem and seat post move before buying. Seat post is simple to test. Might need a rubber mallet and a rag to check the stem.

With regard to straight gauge tubing - true, butted is more desirable, but there's nothing wrong with straight gauge. Reynolds, Tange, Columbus, Ishiwata, True Temper and a couple others made some nice riding bikes with straight gauge tubing. I think a better indicator is seat post size on a straight gauge frame. Bigger is generally better.

+1 these are very important additions to my post, OP.

Though I'm usually still a fan of gauged tubing. Also, I didn't mean to leave Fuji or Shogun out of my list of fantastic Japanese brands -- and Fuji's tubing is often proprietary (Fuji VaLite or Manganese) but reliable.