Classic & Vintage - 72? Italian? Campy / Zeus?

A friend of mine just acquired this:
http://a5.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/hs270.snc6/179829_1853354697297_1343689831_32126276_3218992_n.jpg

http://a2.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/hs067.snc6/167735_1853341496967_1343689831_32126247_6761575_n.jpg

http://a6.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash1/hs785.ash1/167507_1853350777199_1343689831_32126266_4215518_n.jpg

http://a5.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/hs040.snc6/167008_1853344257036_1343689831_32126255_3949589_n.jpg

http://a3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/hs018.snc6/166861_1853404658546_1343689831_32126307_3875318_n.jpg

headset is stronglight, crank is campy, chainring is sugino, rear der. is zeus , BB is phil wood!

what size is the seat post? 27.2?

Check the BB width. I'm guessing it's American or British, with the shot-in stays. It looks like a very nicely made frame - the degree of lug thinning makes me think American. Very nice.

I've got nothing to contribute but that is a beautiful frame.

Check the BB width. I'm guessing it's American or British, with the shot-in stays. It looks like a very nicely made frame - the degree of lug thinning makes me think American. Very nice.

^gotta agree with that assessment: the shot-in stays plus lug thinning look like USA Handbuilt to me...and nicely done.
How is the cable routed on the TT?
And with the single WB bosses and braze-on shifters, I'd think later than '72...but how about a shot of the dropouts?

I agree. I looked at the worked lugs and immediately thought American hands had been on this. I like it.

J


Check the BB width. I'm guessing it's American or British, with the shot-in stays. It looks like a very nicely made frame - the degree of lug thinning makes me think American. Very nice.

I asked him about seatpost size...awaiting reply. Any other pic requests? I would like to know and see the dropouts.

Is there a dent in the downtube? seems like a big one, or maybe some improvised artwork.

not sure...he did say it had a "random sticker" on it.

The first thing that struck me was how SHORT the wheelbase appears: like maybe 38"? And yeah, the finish work has a definite "USA" look to it. Bet that puppy's some kinda rocket ship when ya stomp on the pedals!

SP
Bend, OR

Sweet score!

Not Zeus; as someone said, looks American to me.

Sorry, I meant it had campy and zeus parts on it.
I should get some more info on it later today.

more pics, also seatpost is 27.2, not sure about BB shell width yet.
http://a4.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/hs076.snc6/168610_1855008138632_1343689831_32129120_1451918_n.jpg

http://a6.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/hs272.snc6/180094_1855008898651_1343689831_32129121_486157_n.jpg

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash1/hs780.ash1/167053_1855009938677_1343689831_32129122_3926004_n.jpg

http://a3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash1/hs882.ash1/179018_1855011218709_1343689831_32129124_1940832_n.jpg

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash1/hs892.ash1/180081_1855014258785_1343689831_32129128_7383923_n.jpg

more
http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/hs063.snc6/167364_1855015338812_1343689831_32129130_3516874_n.jpg

http://a7.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/hs079.snc6/168922_1855017698871_1343689831_32129132_5117517_n.jpg

http://a7.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/hs071.snc6/168142_1855027019104_1343689831_32129139_7134658_n.jpg

It's "Mercianesque," except I wouldn't expect that degree of lug thinning on a Mercian.

what's up w/ the front fork crown, seamless w/ the fork blades?

This is the first time you've seen a Cinelli-style crown?

Mercian with fastback stays, Cinelli crown, long-point lugs:

http://cgi.ebay.com/MERCIAN-ROAD-BIKE-STEEL-SACHS-HURET-CAMPAGNOLO-NITTO-/330522409348?pt=Road_Bikes&hash=item4cf4abb984

no, but most I've seen have lug like definition at the blade inserts.

no, but most I've seen have lug like definition at the blade inserts.

But many do not, like the Mercian I linked to.

The aggressive front points on the lugs remind me a bit of Hetchins keyholes, but it's not one of those - though you can see some similarity:

http://www.hetchins.org/501keyhole-01.htm

im not seeing any of the pics?

And an MKM with those same forward-pointed lugs:

http://www.classicrendezvous.com/British_isles/MKM/mkm_T-Adams.htm

what's up w/ the front fork crown, seamless w/ the fork blades?
Internally lugged crown, Cinelli, Zeus, Davis, Takahashi, and others made these:
http://www.classicrendezvous.com/images/Italian/Cinelli/SC_crown_1.jpg

http://www.os2.dhs.org/~john/male-crowns.jpg

http://www.os2.dhs.org/~john/zeus-crown1.jpg

And an MKM with those same forward-pointed lugs:

http://www.classicrendezvous.com/British_isles/MKM/mkm_T-Adams.htm

the lugs are Prugnat Pros, long point with windows...very popular with many British builders, but the fastbackish stay treatment is not like either the Mercian (Victor style) or the MKM. I would not 100% rule out a British builder, but the steerer has a hint of Columbus rifling (can you verify) which would tend to push it back to the USA, for me.
and, I still want to see how the cable on the TT is treated: internal or what style of cable eye?

the lugs are Prugnat Pros, long point with windows...very popular with many British builders, but the fastbackish stay treatment is not like either the Mercian (Victor style) or the MKM. I would not 100% rule out a British builder, but the steerer has a hint of Columbus rifling (can you verify) which would tend to push it back to the USA, for me.

I agree with you - those are good observations. I was thinkin' out loud earlier. I agree that USA makes more sense - those lugs with the front points though ...

last pic
http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/hs275.snc6/180362_1856530936701_1343689831_32131478_7071103_n.jpg